- 24,002
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
daan
It's not a joke photo either, he does look like that! (fashions don't move that quickly up north of the border, they've only just moved away from animal skins and blue face paint!)
GTP!! Where have we gone wrong? Can we fix it?
- Thread starter Small_Fryz
- 224 comments
- 12,752 views
It's not a joke photo either, he does look like that! (fashions don't move that quickly up north of the border, they've only just moved away from animal skins and blue face paint!)
- 1,008
- GTP_Luxy
I read an anthropology book recently ('Guns, Germs and Steel'), which had a section about how societies deal with conflict as they grow.
For small societies (a few hundred people), everyone is related to everyone else (directly or indirectly, think brother-in-law), so it's in everyone's self-interest to minimize conflicts. Being rude or violent would mean doing so toward someone you know personally.
For larger societies (a few thousand people), each person doesn't know every other person anymore, but in a group of people, each person likely knows (or knows of) at least a few others. These people help to minimize conflicts (I don't want friend A to fight with friend B).
After that (ten thousand people?) it becomes completely impossible for a society to self-regulate. It needs police and/or a central authority to avoid constant violence.
In the last couple of years, GTP has crossed the line from the 2nd type to the 3rd type. I don't know, and have never heard of 90% of the posters these days (I used to at least recognize the majority). No one is as kind, courteous and forgiving to strangers as they are to friends. GTP has become a community of strangers, rather than of friends (which is too bad, but inevitable).
For small societies (a few hundred people), everyone is related to everyone else (directly or indirectly, think brother-in-law), so it's in everyone's self-interest to minimize conflicts. Being rude or violent would mean doing so toward someone you know personally.
For larger societies (a few thousand people), each person doesn't know every other person anymore, but in a group of people, each person likely knows (or knows of) at least a few others. These people help to minimize conflicts (I don't want friend A to fight with friend B).
After that (ten thousand people?) it becomes completely impossible for a society to self-regulate. It needs police and/or a central authority to avoid constant violence.
In the last couple of years, GTP has crossed the line from the 2nd type to the 3rd type. I don't know, and have never heard of 90% of the posters these days (I used to at least recognize the majority). No one is as kind, courteous and forgiving to strangers as they are to friends. GTP has become a community of strangers, rather than of friends (which is too bad, but inevitable).
- 30,021
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
I think with regards to closing threads there have been certain cases where a thread has been closed that people were enjoying when only a couple of posts may have needed to be deleted and I think it wouldn't harm the site if the mods had a think about when a non-repeat thread should be deleted over maybe a small number of posts in that thread, whatever then final view on it, at least having a think sabout it and maybe giving their reasons for that view wouldn't harm the site. However, I only view this as a minor thing, overall this forum is far better than any I've visited, especially with regards to how it's run. For example, I can go to a dedicated car site and post some info about a car say a TVR Cerbera only for another member who dissagree's to without any warning or provocation start firing attacks. Here it may happen from time to time, but it's a hell of a lot less common. Sure the site has changed in the way it's run over the years, but the key is that the members have as well. If the members could go back to exactley how they were 2-3 years ago, the rest of the site would follow suit. But that's simply not going to happen. Look at it this way, theres more immaturity now, theres more members. Theres more locked threads now, theres more threads being made every day. Theres more complaints, theres more members to complain and more members, threads and posts to complain about. Theres not much you can do about that.
- 939
- Netherlands
- snorretik
Honestly guys maybe, if the inactive members got kicked we will have a cool close community again.
I think it's mainly the number of members thats just messing it up for the active guys. There arent very much members active if you think about it, I dont know 1/100 of this community simply because everyone on the members list is just inactive.
I think the mods need to realise this is a far smaller community then what the numbers say. And maybe thats not true but just act like it. Dont be so harsh.
There must be alot of members there with zero posts that just have the account to.....do nothing with it...
I think it's mainly the number of members thats just messing it up for the active guys. There arent very much members active if you think about it, I dont know 1/100 of this community simply because everyone on the members list is just inactive.
I think the mods need to realise this is a far smaller community then what the numbers say. And maybe thats not true but just act like it. Dont be so harsh.
There must be alot of members there with zero posts that just have the account to.....do nothing with it...
- 30,021
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
But the inactive memers arn't having any effect on the community, because they arn't taking part in any threads. Kicking them will make no difference to the people that post. And the number of inactive members has been discussed before not too long ago I think, and the mods seemed to be well aware of the size of the community compared to the size of the active community.
- 30,021
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
I honestly can't see where your coming from, inactive members don't post, so they don't clutter the forums, you only ever become aware of their existence whn you ceck the member list and go to the page with their name on. The number of active members, the ones we come across every day will be the same. There will still be the same number of members that post that we don't know. Even with all the inactive members taken out, even with all the members that have less than 50 posts, theres still thousands of properly active members.
- 939
- Netherlands
- snorretik
Well I am just curious why small comunities are always more fun the bigger comunities.
I think all the serious behavior of mods and members and all the search flaming thats going on 24/7, is a cause that we think our site is very big and all, but it must be a balance between large and informative and fun and a cool comunity.
Plus the zero post members can as well watch all the forums without an account.
It must sound a bit mean, but I really dont mean to. I am sure that there are loads of persons out there that just have an account and never got on GTP again in a month time. But the attitude changes as the site grows dont you think? Things become more formal and stuff.
I dunno I cant really explain it but maybe someone can imagine what I mean. I REALLY dont mean to offend anyone.
I think all the serious behavior of mods and members and all the search flaming thats going on 24/7, is a cause that we think our site is very big and all, but it must be a balance between large and informative and fun and a cool comunity.
Plus the zero post members can as well watch all the forums without an account.
It must sound a bit mean, but I really dont mean to. I am sure that there are loads of persons out there that just have an account and never got on GTP again in a month time. But the attitude changes as the site grows dont you think? Things become more formal and stuff.
I dunno I cant really explain it but maybe someone can imagine what I mean. I REALLY dont mean to offend anyone.
- 30,021
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
Yeah a smaller closer knit community is better, but the fact is, even without all the members that hardly ever come here, theres still thousands of regular members on here. The active community would still be pretty much the same. And don't worry, your not even close to offending anyone.
- 15,855
- QLD, Australia
- Small_Fryz
GTP isnt that big really.
Active members would be hardpressed to top 100, especially in the rumble strip.
Only the GT4 sections are full of strangers. I think the rumble strip and a few other sections of GTP are actually quite small.
Active members would be hardpressed to top 100, especially in the rumble strip.
Only the GT4 sections are full of strangers. I think the rumble strip and a few other sections of GTP are actually quite small.
- 30,021
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
Even with the size of the site, you get to know the people that post in the sections you vistit. I mean I know a lot of the members that are regular, but when I take a peek in the GT4 drifting forums I might as well be a whole new site. Places like the rumble strip attract certain members, the auto forums others, the electronics attract others ect. You do still get to know the regulars who post in certain sections of the site.
- 15,855
- QLD, Australia
- Small_Fryz
live4speed
Bingo!
GTP is a lot of smaller communities. Which is why i think that some mods should be refrained to only moderating their section, as they know them guys the best and the guys know that mod the best and know where the line is. When we have a large number of mods moderating the same place that line in the sand is very vague as each mod sees that line differently. Maybe that could be a suggestion?
Just look at the GTA section for example, only Jimmy mods in that and we all know what he does and doesnt tolerate and we all get one fine. He is very fair and also lets us get away with a few things that we might not get away with if a mod didnt know that little communtiy.
- 6,546
- matthewjlcoleman
The problem there-in lies, Dion, that when you get to such forums as the Rumble Strip, Music Forum, and pretty much all of the Off-Topic forums, there are a lot of members who post, and you get quite a lot of members who come in, post once or twice, and leave. In these cases, it's not very tight-knit, and you need to keep those forums moderated more closely, by more Moderators.Dion
The smaller communities like the GTA Forum, etc, are already moderated by just the one Moderator. But, like I said, when it comes to the Off-Topic Forums, GT4 Forums, and the like, there are a lot of users to deal with, and always a lot of new faces. You can't call these places tight-knit, and you never will be able to.
- 12,486
- CCS
- GTP_Diego
meh, I joined GTP in March 2003, almost three years ago to the date, but didn't post my first thread until more thana year later (July 2004). The point is that I actually took the time to read through most threads and actually searched before posting said first thread, in the F1 forums.
My second thread was a car wishlist for GT4, and although it went all around the world as the true list, even in GTP new members didn't bother reading the fact that it was a wishlist. That is one of the problems now in GTP. People are not reading.
You can argue about mods being unethical, you can argue about members being stupid, but the point is people are not reading. Not reading the stickies, so they make a new thread and get flamed and in turn aggressive. Of course, a major factor here is age, since as you get older (or more mature, depending), you tend to be more patient and actually think things through.
Which is not always the case. I had to stop posting in the Opinions forum because it was becoming a warning-after-warning issue for me. Mainly because I was the only opinionated non-American criticising Americans and that's a no-no, but back to the point. If a new member doesn't want to be flamed, he/she should READ.
As to GTP as a whole, I think it was Duke who put it best, at descibing GTP as a microcosmos. In the same way, Jimmy Enslashayand I were chatting the other day about this same issue. I think it would be safe to say GTP is right now at a down point, with all these new members popping in at all times and spamming up. In the near future, this trend will likely disappear and we'll be getting less members signing up day after day. And the members who stay will be the ones who really want to be a part of GTP and those who don't will most likely be banned or stay as lurkers.
The last point I want to make is that with 80,000+ members in GTP, I think the mods can afford to piss some people off without looking back.
My second thread was a car wishlist for GT4, and although it went all around the world as the true list, even in GTP new members didn't bother reading the fact that it was a wishlist. That is one of the problems now in GTP. People are not reading.
You can argue about mods being unethical, you can argue about members being stupid, but the point is people are not reading. Not reading the stickies, so they make a new thread and get flamed and in turn aggressive. Of course, a major factor here is age, since as you get older (or more mature, depending), you tend to be more patient and actually think things through.
Which is not always the case. I had to stop posting in the Opinions forum because it was becoming a warning-after-warning issue for me. Mainly because I was the only opinionated non-American criticising Americans and that's a no-no, but back to the point. If a new member doesn't want to be flamed, he/she should READ.
As to GTP as a whole, I think it was Duke who put it best, at descibing GTP as a microcosmos. In the same way, Jimmy Enslashayand I were chatting the other day about this same issue. I think it would be safe to say GTP is right now at a down point, with all these new members popping in at all times and spamming up. In the near future, this trend will likely disappear and we'll be getting less members signing up day after day. And the members who stay will be the ones who really want to be a part of GTP and those who don't will most likely be banned or stay as lurkers.
The last point I want to make is that with 80,000+ members in GTP, I think the mods can afford to piss some people off without looking back.
- 15,855
- QLD, Australia
- Small_Fryz
Jimmy Enslashay
I think it is quite tight knit. You have the odd guy that nobody really knows, but if your active you know 90% of posters. I also think that many members do make an effort to make GTP pleasurable, but are let down by a minortiy of members.
To me it feels like the mods crack down on "everybody" rather than just the trouble makers, Like i said before if 90% can keep a thread on topic and walk that fine line, yet 10% cant, why does that 90% have to get punished by the mod locking a thread or not allowing such discussion? Its not the 90% fault that the 10% did what they did, yet they are the ones being punished because they are no longer able to talk about that anymore. Instead of locking the threads and disallowing any conversation of that type again maybe the mods could just delete the offending post and or publicly warn when someone steps over the line, then the next posters can see that line and adhear to it, and if a mod does this, other mods CAN NOT come in and change that line. The 90% are still able to continue their worthy and entertaining discussion in a mature way. A good example of this is the funny pic thread, duke could of locked it a few times now but instead he edits out the very small minority of bad pics and posters and draws the line in teh sand, if you cross that line you get in trouble, not the thread gets locked. This means the thread can stay open for the 90% of people who use it properly 👍 and the 10% that use it badly get in trouble.
I feel if the mods did this more often GTP could be a better place?
- 30,021
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
Agreed, for example I've just noticed the Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 thread has been locked because two members decided to discuss Ferrari's and how their models have evolved over the years. Now, I don't see any reason why a mod couldn't have just said, keep it on topic guy's and let the thread continue. Cases like this where theres nothing wrong with the thread, but a couple of members have started an off topic discussion between themselves can be dealt with, without locking the thread. Locking isn't always the best way, sometimes it's neccissary but sometimes it's not. Despite some shortcomings of the human moderators we see from time to time, this site is still one of the best moderated sites on the net.
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
I trolled different types of forums for information for years before joining GTP. The only reason why I joined GTP was because it was moderated well and I could find information without sifting through 30 pages of flames and off-topic posts.
I'll agree that I see an occasional warning or lock that I didn't agree with, but that same kind of thing happens in the real world. I have been here in just over a year and I know things seemed to get more mature as the GT4 rush (which I was a part of) died down. Some of those spread from the GT4 discussions to other parts over time, as I have. The immature that weren't dealt with in the GT4 forum spread out but that had a much more mature community and they eventually get ignored into boredom in many cases. Some others had to be banned eventually and then there are the few that stay just under the radar but are annoying nonetheless. However, compared to when I joined it has improved overall and I am guessing it will continue to do so until GT5 some out. I do expect to see a small surge of new and immature members with GT4 going Greatest Hits.
I am curious if the immaturity levels tend to raise and lower in a cycle around new title releases. Those who have been here for three years wouldn't have seen what it was like around GT3. Anyone who has been around since the beginning? Jordan?
Of course, it could just be that GTP is a big community now and this is what happens when you get big. Whatever the case may be it is better than any other site out there.
I'll agree that I see an occasional warning or lock that I didn't agree with, but that same kind of thing happens in the real world. I have been here in just over a year and I know things seemed to get more mature as the GT4 rush (which I was a part of) died down. Some of those spread from the GT4 discussions to other parts over time, as I have. The immature that weren't dealt with in the GT4 forum spread out but that had a much more mature community and they eventually get ignored into boredom in many cases. Some others had to be banned eventually and then there are the few that stay just under the radar but are annoying nonetheless. However, compared to when I joined it has improved overall and I am guessing it will continue to do so until GT5 some out. I do expect to see a small surge of new and immature members with GT4 going Greatest Hits.
I am curious if the immaturity levels tend to raise and lower in a cycle around new title releases. Those who have been here for three years wouldn't have seen what it was like around GT3. Anyone who has been around since the beginning? Jordan?
Of course, it could just be that GTP is a big community now and this is what happens when you get big. Whatever the case may be it is better than any other site out there.
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
I agree totally. It might not be perfect and I might disagree with some decisions, but it is the best that's out there and I can't ask for more.Niels
- 10,116
- Maryland, USA
- swift-bass
I want to touch on the whole "follow the leader" concept small_fryz brought up. It doesn't work...
Look at the current deal for the UAE to buy 6 American ports. The President of the united states, the leader of the free world, wants this thing to go through, but the American people have spoken up in such a way that congress is going to kill the deal. Now, technically the white house is the leader of the country, so why isn't everyone falling in line?
It takes people that want a place to be better to make it better. The leaders can have the best intentions and techniques. But if the members want to mess it up, they can.
Look at the current deal for the UAE to buy 6 American ports. The President of the united states, the leader of the free world, wants this thing to go through, but the American people have spoken up in such a way that congress is going to kill the deal. Now, technically the white house is the leader of the country, so why isn't everyone falling in line?
It takes people that want a place to be better to make it better. The leaders can have the best intentions and techniques. But if the members want to mess it up, they can.
- 10,116
- Maryland, USA
- swift-bass
Niels
You're not sure what they were, but you want them back. Interesting position.
My point is simply that the community itself determines the quality of said community. You can have a strict or loose ruleset and the difference will be how willing the members of said community are willing to adhere to the rules and NOT upset others on purpose.
- 12,486
- CCS
- GTP_Diego
Swift, I respect you a lot as well as your opinions even though I don't share them, particularly in the religion department; but seriously, you can not be serious on the government analogy.
It's a million different reasons as to why the American public don't want the deal with the UAE to go through and I'm not going to discuss the know-how on it. And ultimately, it bears (sp?) little or no resemblance to the issue discussed in this thread.
The main point in the thread I think is to find I way in which both members and mods (as members themselves) can find a way to "bring back the old days", or rather make the 'planet seem less oppressive. Especially us older members.
Again, I'm not attacking you personally and I'd appreciate if you indeed don't take it personally. But I can't see similitudes in the way the U.S. carries its policies and the way GTP does.
It's a million different reasons as to why the American public don't want the deal with the UAE to go through and I'm not going to discuss the know-how on it. And ultimately, it bears (sp?) little or no resemblance to the issue discussed in this thread.
The main point in the thread I think is to find I way in which both members and mods (as members themselves) can find a way to "bring back the old days", or rather make the 'planet seem less oppressive. Especially us older members.
Again, I'm not attacking you personally and I'd appreciate if you indeed don't take it personally. But I can't see similitudes in the way the U.S. carries its policies and the way GTP does.
