GTP_WRS (GT5) Week 112 : Revving is Racing

[EDK]

Really having some reservations about running anymore of these events outside of Arcade mode events. The reason is simple...hybridding. Before I go on, just let me say that I would think no one thats part of WRS would take to such tactics, but the fact remains that the possibility and temptation is still there. I spent all day yesturday investigating 3 different hybridding apps. and it is possible to hybrid and run in these events in Practice Mode without anyone being none the wiser.....if you know what you are doing without making it blatently obvious. I can guarrantee you that I could hybrid this Civic in a way that would be undetectable and still gain me spots on the leaderboard. Like I said, I would like to think that no one here would resort to that type of cheating, but it is still possible which makes me have second thoughts on running these events in Practice mode. With the recent hybridding, I just feel more comfortable running these events in Arcade mode. Don't mean to offend anyone here, this is just my thoughts and concerns in running these events in Practice mode.

That's quite the bomb you are dropping here, and I think you're making a lot of assumptions regarding our awareness of these practices and ability to detect them.

Keep in mind, the only time trials that carry zero risk of cheating and loopholes are those that PD organizes as online TT's.

Even with Arcade Mode combos, there's the risk that someone would use a car from their "favorites" list while in arcade mode. They could add a few points of downforce to a racecar, remove weight and add ballast back in, make a tweak to the LSD. All things that are not visually detectable.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Anything that makes the car faster or improves grip beyond the normal limit can be detected in some way. There are even ways of deducing if SRF is being used, which has always been there as a temptation for people who want to cheat. Or running a tuned car in an arcade event... There are ways of finding out, believe me. Besides WRS members generally are of good character and principle.

I agree with both of these points. We've occasionally had people who attempted to take advantage of the system, and we have dealt with them.

The data logger is our friend. A lot can be gathered by matching a lap of a "control" car against a suspected cheat.

Well, I bet I could get by, at least to the casual replay viewer. Not saying I'm a genious, just saying that with the recent influx of hybridding apps, it is possible.

Also, like I said, I too think that the WRS community is of good character. The fact remains tho that it is still possible. The thing is now, I'm always going to be wondering if the time or person that I am trying to better is legit, thats all. I'm not trying to offend anyone here really, its just knowing that the possibilities are there, thats all.

@Al: Agree, thats the same reason I do them as well, but as said before, when I look at the leaderboard, I'm going to wonder if that guy thats ahead by .500 is actually legit. As well as improving my skillset, I always aim for winning my division or better. It matters alot to me where I end up on the leaderboard, just the competitor in me.

I think you have to recognize that PD is dealing with folks who are hybridding by banning their accounts - They are taking this seriously. We've had our own ongoing discussions as a Moderation team for several weeks - This is not new news.

GT5 has brought its own unique issues with respect to identifying added parts and aids. The reason we used the qualifier we did has everything to do with this. It forces a spec car and ensures a specific driving aid set is in place. We also sprinkle in many different types of events. For some events, we know everything is 100% verifiable at face value.

For MOST events, we know there is an element of trust in our participants and the community. And that's always been the case, to some extent, with WRS. Keep in mind, hybridding is not a new concept. It was around on GT3 and GT4. We used very few tuning events on GT4 as a result, but did have some on occasion, and again, we were trusting our participants and the community.

GT5 has given us less flexibility with arcade mode. A limited number of cars, with no means of identifying horsepower, weight or added parts.

But we really only have a couple choices -

Be held hostage by the game and its limitations. Only use the TT events that PD posts, which are 2 week events that begin on Wednesday night.

Have some trust in our membership, while understanding that we can still identify cheaters. It's not easy, it's not always 100% conclusive. But we have had people cheat. We found them out. We banned them from the site.

By choosing not to participate, you are making a statement that you do not trust your fellow participants. I would like to give our community more credit than that.

 

[GTPskills]

After 2 laps here are my splits...

43.481
40.586

Lots of time to find. ;-)

EDIT: Oops, wrong track...

 

[millross]

26.065
21.735

Lost my line a bit in sector 2 but getting better in sector 1. ~ 80 miles on the clock.

Chris, not sure why I said six pot tbh.....brain fart! I mean the transmission. Your gearing appears to be for a five-speed in a six-speed outfit! As a five speed it's worked quite well for me so far 👍

 

[Cats_PJs]

I've tuned the car up to 700bhp and added nitrous of course.

Hilarious.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

@Jump_Ace: So, now you are saying that just because I opened myself up as being one who knows how to hybride cars, you guys are going to be watching me closely. Watch away till your hearts content, you won't find anything. I don't cheat and have no desire to do so. The only reason I did what I did yesturday was only to see what I am up against being a fair and respective competitor. Keep in mind also, that I often finish ahead of my division so I suppose your're going to be questioning all my results now. Have at it.

@EDK: Now you are putting words in my mouth. I never said that I didn't trust the community as a whole. Its going to be that one or two people that don't participate on a regular basis that come in here and try to get away with a hybrid. Thats more what I'm concerned about. The regular people that I compete with in here week in and week out, I trust with no problem.

I know the staff here is very capable of catching the cheaters, but from what I seen from yesturdays trip to the underground, you better be on your toes. Thats all I'll say.

Now, I said that it wasn't my intent to offend anyone here and that is what I mean. Maybe I should have rephrased it to the ones I'm worried about are new members or members that just want to come in a do a one and out with a hybrid. Anyways, I'll end it here beings I got the whole Mayberry police force watching me now, lol.

 

[zippy_the_cat]

27.171
22.225

Beginning suspension and LSD adjustments. Toe to neutral, camber to 2.0/1.0, LSD initial torque to minimum.

 

[Vagabond]

Hilarious.

Tough crowd. OK I gaffer taped the radiator grill and put a few bags of sugar in the boot.

Chris, not sure why I said six pot tbh.....brain fart! I mean the transmission. Your gearing appears to be for a five-speed in a six-speed outfit! As a five speed it's worked quite well for me so far 👍

Well its almost - I'm using 6th only on the main straight. Not tried a higher final setting yet though...

 

[Jump_Ace]

@Jump_Ace: So, now you are saying that just because I opened myself up as being one who knows how to hybride cars, you guys are going to be watching me closely. Watch away till your hearts content, you won't find anything. I don't cheat and have no desire to do so. The only reason I did what I did yesturday was only to see what I am up against being a fair and respective competitor. Keep in mind also, that I often finish ahead of my division so I suppose your're going to be questioning all my results now. Have at it.

Like I said, everyone knows each others abilities, including yours. AFAIK, you are a solid, fair driver 👍 The only reason we'd take a 2nd look at your splits is just because of your hybrid post there, but I don't think anyone will be watching your results closely (except maybe the WRS Mods, but they look at everyone anyway).

I know where you are coming from, I too put a little time into finding out how easy it would be for someone to cheat, but like Kev said, we had Gamesharks the past few iterations of GT, its never been an issue.

Again, my post was not a stab at you at all buddy, I was referring to someone who would be trying to cheat in the WRS.


Jerome

 

[Cats_PJs]

Tough crowd. OK I gaffer taped the radiator grill and put a few bags of sugar in the boot.

Not sure what that means, but I actually did think it was very funny.

 

[ConRollins]

Worth putting the aero/exhaust not allowed stuff in red?, I just installed it as I don't read, I just look for colours

Mitch, the admins have a lot of experience, I think they'd likely spot any fishy stuff

I did the same thing Matt. Then looked again after I had more HP than that listed before break-in.

All negative or not allowed changes should be in RED,
and I also think any changes allowed should be in GREEN.

Of course that would mean dumbing down the participants, and adding an extra burden on the admins, but I think it would be beneficial. I would rather be legal than get disqualified because I missed a detail.

 

[WRP001]

Anyways, I'll end it here beings I got the whole Mayberry police force watching me now, lol.

You've got me whistling the tune now. How do I get that out of my head?

Anyway, let's hope we have a few more "Andy" types on our staff (or police force as you put it) and not so many "Barneys." Just please tell me I'm not unwittingly playing the role of Gomer Pyle?

 

[zippy_the_cat]

27.208
21.900

More work with LSD settings.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Like I said, everyone knows each others abilities, including yours. AFAIK, you are a solid, fair driver 👍 The only reason we'd take a 2nd look at your splits is just because of your hybrid post there, but I don't think anyone will be watching your results closely (except maybe the WRS Mods, but they look at everyone anyway).

I know where you are coming from, I too put a little time into finding out how easy it would be for someone to cheat, but like Kev said, we had Gamesharks the past few iterations of GT, its never been an issue.

Again, my post was not a stab at you at all buddy, I was referring to someone who would be trying to cheat in the WRS.


Jerome

Alright, fair enough. Like I said. I have nothing to hide so check away till your hearts content. No ill feelings towards anyone here and glad we were able to have this discussion. Just keep in mind tho that these apps are evolving everyday with new ways to hybrid and also hide what you have hybridded. You guys have a task ahead of, I'll tell you that. Anyways, sorry if I ruffled any feathers, just wanted to get this off my chest. Peace.

 

[zippy_the_cat]

26.826
22.164

Firming up the suspension now ...

 

[Windy_1238]

28.102
23.062

 

[ConRollins]

Gosh darn it! I left my bullet in my other shirt!

Seriously, my two cents. There will always be cheaters. Some guys have no compunction about how they win as long as they win. This really gets compounded when there is money on the line, but still happens when the only thing at stake is just the satisfaction of winning. Doesn't really make sense to most of us as you really haven't won if you have a great advantage over everyone else. But there will always be those that get the satisfaction at any cost.

Even in the WRS. Yep, even here.

Witness Fobia for one. Don't know the particulars but I know he was booted for suspicion of cheating or maybe even actually proven.

At any rate, it's not worth putting too much worry into. They will cheat, beat us, get caught, and then get booted, and we just keep doing the best we can and hopefully win a few in between them. That's all we can really do.

As far as the casual checker catching them, you are right Mitch, it's hard. When I check Arcade mode time trials, if I suspect someone I'll look real close at the car being used as there are subtle diferences that can give away arcade and garrage cars depending on the mods made. Thankfully, I have never found any one cheating. Let's just hope it stays that way. We have a great bunch of guys here and the competition is so close most of the time, it's hard to believe that anyone is cheating.

 

[GTPskills]

First (actual) splits after 3 laps...

26.605
22.050

Good Luck to all of you;-)

 

[whiskyecho96]

27.486
22.413

 

[SirAlanClive]

...I think you have to recognize that PD is dealing with folks who are hybridding by banning their accounts - They are taking this seriously.

So far they're only banning people who enter the TT's and DT's with hybrids, or who use the developer menu online. I'm disappointed with their reaction actually. The 'modding' community has reacted like they've called PD's bluff. The next few weeks will tell.

...Just keep in mind tho that these apps are evolving everyday with new ways to hybrid and also hide what you have hybridded. You guys have a task ahead of, I'll tell you that.....

I started a thread on NGU trying to get someone interested in creating an app which will footprint a genuine car from a replay so that other replays can be benchmarked against it. It would mean cars would need to be identically set up as far as parts are concerned. I've had one PM there from a guy who I think will maybe help me (I'm a developer but this isn't really my cup of tea).

 

[w-g-e]

Great splits Chris, our tunes really look alike.👍

T1: 25.871
T2: 21.579

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

You've got me whistling the tune now. How do I get that out of my head?

Anyway, let's hope we have a few more "Andy" types on our staff (or police force as you put it) and not so many "Barneys." Just please tell me I'm not unwittingly playing the role of Gomer Pyle?

Lol, curiosity got the best of me. Clicked on that link even tho I knew what is was going to be and now its stuck in my head, lol. You got, well played. 👍

@ Clive: Yea, I know quite a few people over there at NGU. You'd be surprised at how many GTP members are also members of that site. Some of them even use the same username, lol.

 

[Windy_1238]

New splits.
27.526
22.328
26.764
22.074

 

[Crozzlow]

This is a fun one!! This track is a blast...My splits below and I know I am leaving a good bit out on the track...can I pick it up though? That is always the question.......it's pretty much a toss up!

26.387 26.125
22.028 21.897

 

[Jump_Ace]

I'm definitely missing something in T1
26.329
21.686

The rest of the lap is all squared away.

Fantastic combo Kev

This car is daily driver minus the spoiler and the type r package. I've spent lots of time trying to find my paint job in the paint list, haha. My car is more gray than this, I'll keep looking, anyway...turn 1 is fun isn't it?

Jerome

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

Well, after thinking about the conversation I had this morning with a few members here, I decided to go ahead and run this event. Another deciding factor was that this is one of my practice and tuning tracks that I have logged in excess of 3000 laps on so I really couldn't pass up the opportunity to run here. Anyways, here is my first splits with room for improvement after getting the feel of the car down more.

26.738
21.874

(Remember, watch replay closely. )

 

[DigitalBaka]

You're a nut job, Mitch. Keep it up! 👍

 

[Windy_1238]

this is one of my practice and tuning tracks that I have logged in excess of 3000 laps on.)

Wow 3000 laps! I' don't think I've put that many laps in ever. 👍👍

 

[Cats_PJs]

26.060
21.557

Car's not quite broke in, but other than that I'm pretty happy with this lap. I'm sure I'll spend way too much time looking for another tenth or so.

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

You're a nut job, Mitch. Keep it up! 👍

Thanks friend. I figure I might as well have fun with the whole ordeal....right? Besides, I've got "Maybery's" finest watching my every move. I'm the one that put the target on my back earlier so might as well have some fun with it.

 

[DigitalBaka]

Thanks friend. I figure I might as well have fun with the whole ordeal....right? Besides, I've got "Maybery's" finest watching my every move. I'm the one that put the target on my back earlier so might as well have some fun with it.

With that many laps under your belt the target will just make it easier for me to see you in the distance.

26.624
21.841

Just a few miles on it and a flopped T3 but i think a good start. Much more fun than I thought it would be. The last time I did a staggered compound was that awful Pug on CSR5. With all the grip we've gotten the last several weeks I was wondering when I'd have to digg out the ice skates again.

26.597
21.899

Marginal improvement.