GTPlanet Fantasy Football League '08 - WEEK 14 It's Playoff Time!

[Danoff]

Roster Positions: QB, WR, WR, WR, RB, RB, TE, W/T, W/R, K, DEF, D, D, DB, DB, DL, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN

I've got to get them to change it

No kidding. FFootball is time consuming enough without having to worry about defensive positions.

I have always liked the three wide receivers on the starting lineup. Something to think about, which I have never actually tried, is making that third wide receiver spot a flex running back/wide receiver spot. I would prefer to see either of the above options instead of eliminating a starting position.

I'd like to see a starting position eliminated AND a RB changed to flex.

So it would look like this:

WR, WR, RB, WR/RB

That way you can have two backs if you want, or 3 wideouts if you want.

One other thing I noticed is that passing touchdowns only count for four points. That rule last year seemed a bit odd because I have always played where they count for six.

I also agree on the 6 for TDs too, every league I have been in has done it that way.

While I didn't think about it this year, I do remember last year that the 4 point TD seemed odd.

4 is better for QBs than 6 and here's why. Last year Brady was shooting in 5-6 TD's per game. Can you ever think of a RB that was performing at that level? Even record braking RBs can't get 5-6 per game. QB TDs are just more common all the way around, and if their TDs are worth 6 it puts a lot of weight on QBs. The other problem is that QBs are much less consistent with TDs - so people will be living and dying on QB performance, which will introduce a great deal more variance in the scoring. I'd rather have RBs dominate the draft since RBs are far more consistent. It makes for a more fun game if the results aren't the products of random chance.

If that wasn't convincing, think of it this way. The reason QB TDs are fewer points than RB/WR TDs is the same reason their yardage is worth less than RB/WR yardage.

I like making the third WR a flex spot too. But do we want it to be WR/RB or WR/TE? Both happen in real life.

Optimally it would be WR/RB/TE, but since TEs are so rare, I think it would be very unusual for someone to actually prefer a 2nd TE's production over a WR's. I like WR/RB, and if you do that, eliminate one RB position. There's no need to have 3 starting RBs. It'll only make them dry up even faster in the draft.

I also noticed interceptions only count for negative one point. Negative two points seems a bit more appropriate considering a lost fumble is negative two points.

Agreed.

 

[Brett]

I think having quarterbacks score six points per touchdown places a bit more emphasis on the position and also reflects the number of points scored in a game when a touchdown is scored. Also, the quarterback is by far the most important position on the field and the record of teams is usually reflected on how well a quarterback plays or how badly a quarterback plays.

I also do not like the Tom Brady example. When you consider he had a record setting year last year, it makes him a bit of an exception and a statistical outlier. Also, outside of (about) the top seven to eight quarterbacks, the production for the rest drops off a fair bit. The depth of talent at the position is relatively shallow.

The thing is, I have always heard touchdown passes to be worth six points. This league was the first league I had played in in which that was different. I found it a bit odd, but not a whole lot different than one in which the touchdown passes were worth six. Elite fantasy quarterbacks are still elite fantasy quarterbacks in either league. But having touchdown passes worth six points brings a few more quarterbacks into the field as serviceable fantasy quarterbacks, as there are less likely to be guys who come out of nowhere to be a fantasy star near the start of the season.

On the topic of the flex position, I think if we go with two running back and two wide receiver positions, along with the flex position, the ideal option would for it to be RB/WR/TE. But with that said, the TE position is extremely shallow outside of (about) the top six players. So unless you can do RB/WR/TE, then I would go with RB/WR.

 

[Danoff]

I think having quarterbacks score six points per touchdown places a bit more emphasis on the position and also reflects the number of points scored in a game when a touchdown is scored. Also, the quarterback is by far the most important position on the field and the record of teams is usually reflected on how well a quarterback plays or how badly a quarterback plays.

It's destabilizing and adds a great deal more of the random element to an already random game. If you want to emphasize the QB, there are better ways to do that. 10 yards per point would be preferable to 6 point TDs.

Also, I was comparing Brady to Tomlinson and Alexander's record setting seasons prior. Neither Tomlinson or Alexander could keep pace with 5-6 TDs per game. Likewise by definition no WR that can keep pace with a QBs production. QBs are important to the game, but so are RBs, WRs, defenses etc. Defense is possibly as, if not more important than QB. Should we restructure scoring so that Defense needs to be taken first?

I prefer the attempt to balance each offensive position rather than pick and choose which position is most important. As it stands with 4 points for passing TDs (by any player, not just QB) and 6 points for rushing TDs (also applies to QBs), it is likely that a QB, RB, and WR will be taken in round 1. I think that's about as close as it's going to get in terms of balancing the positions.

Anyway that's my official stand on the scoring. If you guys want 6 points for passing TDs, it's not like I'm going to drop out.

On the topic of the flex position, I think if we go with two running back and two wide receiver positions, along with the flex position,...

The possibility of 3 RBs starting is just excessive and weird.

 

[FoolKiller]

OK, on the roster positions thing I don't even think I can make it a three-way flex. Here are my options copy and pasted from the settings screen with the number we have right now:

Quarterback (QB): 1
Wide Receiver (WR): 3
Running Back (RB): 2
Tight End (TE): 1
Wide Receiver/Tight End (W/T): 0
Wide Receiver/Running Back (W/R): 0
Kicker (K): 1
Defensive Team (DEF): 1
Defensive Player (D): 0
Defensive Back (DB): 0
Defensive Lineman (DL): 0
Bench (BN): 8

They each have a drop-down menu for the number at each position. No way to add any other options.

I think for the sake of not killing myself trying to find an active backup I like Danoff's idea of 2 WR, 1 RB and 1 WR/RB. The more I think on it the more I think that would be best for my sanity. And then 6 BN.

On the QB TD points issue I am neutral. I know my other league did that last year and while in the case of Tom Brady it added QB emphasis it wasn't much for anyone else, despite all the pre-draft talk of more QB focus. But one season isn't exactly an accurate sample.


I say we need a vote on these:

Roster

• As is
• 2 WR 1 WR/RB 1 RB
• 2 WR 1 WR/RB 2 RB

QB TD Points

• 4
• 6

Pass Interceptions

• -1 point
• -2 points

I haven't seen a disagreement on the last one, but to be sure. If I get more than five in any one direction I will go ahead and make that change. Otherwise I will consider the issue closed in one week (August 1st), unless someone has other options, in which case people can change votes and I recount.

Here is my vote:
Roster

• 2 WR 1 WR/RB 1 RB

QB TD Points

• Undecided

Pass Interceptions

• -2 points

 

[Danoff]

For the sake of making my vote official:

2 WR 1 RB 1 WR/RB
4 pts per passing TD
-2 pts per int.

 

[UnoMOTO]

2 WR 1 RB 1 WR/RB
4 pts per passing TD
-2 pts per int.

I haven't done a flex before so I give it a try and second the above votes.

 

[Brett]

It's destabilizing and adds a great deal more of the random element to an already random game. If you want to emphasize the QB, there are better ways to do that. 10 yards per point would be preferable to 6 point TDs.

It makes very little difference if the touchdowns are worth four or six points; if a quarterback has a big week, then he is still going to be one of the highest scorers for the week and I am basing this on having played in both scoring systems. If you owned Tom Brady last year in fantasy football, then it is very likely you did very well. You may not have won your league, but he almost single handed many teams to their league's playoffs.

Also, I was comparing Brady to Tomlinson and Alexander's record setting seasons prior. Neither Tomlinson or Alexander could keep pace with 5-6 TDs per game. Likewise by definition no WR that can keep pace with a QBs productio

I would very well guess both Tomlinson's and Alexander's record setting seasons compared to Brady's points wise because of the difference in point scoring for yards gained. After looking up the scoring on Yahoo for two years ago, LaDainian actually outscored Tom Brady by 24 points in 2006 when compared to Brady's massive 2007 season. That difference does not reflect the impact Brady's huge year had on the New England Patroits' season.

Also, last year was a much different year scoring wise compared to two years ago. Two years ago, running backs did much more scoring in fantasy football and there were many less quarterbacks near the top of the scoring. Last year was the exact opposite, as the league was much more pass happy; most all running back scoring was down compared to previous years. Many running back were killed by injuries to themselves or their teammates. Stephen Jackson was hampered by the huge multitude of injuries to the St. Louis Rams offensive. Ask FoolKiller or JFM about their team and they both will tell you the team/Stephen Jackson's production was devastated by injuries. Outside of Tomlinson and a few others, most of the running backs were not very good in fantasy football.

Defense is possibly as, if not more important than QB. Should we restructure scoring so that Defense needs to be taken first?

I disagree with this. Yes, defense is extremely important and without a good one, a team will not win games. But, if a team does not have a good quarterback, then they have virtually no chance of winning games. I cannot even tell you who the Dolphins quarterback was last year, but they only won one game because they had absolutely no production from their quarterback. Without a quarterback who can take pressure off their team's running game and keep possession in their team's favor, it makes little difference how good a defense is. When a defense spends a majority of the game on the field, they wear down, get tired, and start allowing points to be scored against them. Ever wonder why Baltimore is not better than they are, even though they have a great defense? I think it is because their offense is pitiful and spends more time on the sidelines than on the playing field. Same goes for Chicago and it did not help that their defense was injury riddled the entire year.

The possibility of 3 RBs starting is just excessive and weird.

I do not think so. Last year, it was easier to find another wide receiver than it was another running back. The league was very pass happy last year and that was reflected in the higher scoring by quarterback and lower scoring by running backs. Two years ago, the opposite was true. This year we may see a balance of the two, no one really knows.

In reality, I really do not have too much of a problem dropping a wide receiver spot and making one of the running back spots a flex RB/WR spot. Having never played in a league with a flex position, it would be fun to try it for once if everyone else goes with it.

Pass Interceptions

* -2 points

I think everyone is going to agree on this one.

EDIT: I just noticed the playoffs go until Week 17, otherwise known as the last week of the regular season. I do not know that I want the playoffs going until the last week of the regular season. Teams tend to bench players or play them less than normal and that can really screw with fantasy football teams. But I do like having six teams get into the playoffs, as it gives more teams the chance to win the league.

 

[Danoff]

After looking up the scoring on Yahoo for two years ago, LaDainian actually outscored Tom Brady by 24 points in 2006 when compared to Brady's massive 2007 season. That difference does not reflect the impact Brady's huge year had on the New England Patroits' season.

What about the huge impact LaDainian has on his team in '06? Brady was benefiting from solid wideouts. LaDainian was carrying his team almost single-handedly.

Bottom line - At every level of QB play, a QB is going to score more TDs on average than a comparably skilled RB or WR.

I disagree with this. Yes, defense is extremely important and without a good one, a team will not win games. But, if a team does not have a good quarterback, then they have virtually no chance of winning games.

I think the superbowl champion buccaneers disagree. (I can't remember what year it was that they won, but it was recent) '06 Chicago also comes to mind.

EDIT: I just noticed the playoffs go until Week 17, otherwise known as the last week of the regular season. I do not know that I want the playoffs going until the last week of the regular season. Teams tend to bench players or play them less than normal and that can really screw with fantasy football teams. But I do like having six teams get into the playoffs, as it gives more teams the chance to win the league.

I agree. Optimally the league is done after week 16.

 

[Brett]

What about the huge impact LaDainian has on his team in '06? Brady was benefiting from solid wideouts. LaDainian was carrying his team almost single-handedly.

LaDainian is an excellent running back, there is no questioning that. But a running back carrying a team single-handedly will never go as far as a quarterback carrying a team single-handedly. If we go back two years, then you also have to say Brady carried the New England Patriots. That Patriots teams had pitiful receivers and Brady was very close to getting the Patriots in the Super Bowl. Last year shows how much of a difference giving Tom Brady good receivers will do for that offense. An elite quarterback will affect a game much more than an elite running back.

Bottom line - At every level of QB play, a QB is going to score more TDs on average than a comparably skilled RB or WR.

Yep, I cannot disagree with that and because of that, their impact on the game will likely be greater and the way I look at it, that should also be reflected in fantasy football. Two years ago when LaDainian had a monster year, it was reflected in his fantasy score. Last year, Tom Brady's monster year pretty much guaranteed his owners a spot in the playoffs.

I think the superbowl champion buccaneers disagree. (I can't remember what year it was that they won, but it was recent) '06 Chicago also comes to mind.

I think the Super Bowl Buccaneers would tell you that Brad Johnson was able to protect the ball and make enough plays to keep his defense off of the field long enough to allow them to stay fresh for when they were on the field. They had an outstanding defense no doubt, but Brad Johnson did his part in helping the defense by heading a good ball control offense.

Also, Johnson's numbers for the year: 281 completions out of 451 passes; 3,049 yards passing; 22 touchdowns; and just six interceptions. I do not know about you, but that is solid production and a quarterback effectively managing a game. Had Tampa Bay had a subpar performance out of Johnson, then they very well likely would not have been able to reach the Super Bowl, much less win it.

The 2000 Baltimore Ravens story was much the same with Trent Dilfer. Dilfer did all the right things. Protected the ball, took some pressure off of Jamal Lewis throwing the ball to Shannon Sharpe among others, and kept the defense off the field long enough for them to stay effective and not get excessively tired.

The 2006 Chicago Bears defense was outstanding. It was boosted by the extremely great play by Devin Hester in the return game and the 'relatively outstanding' play by Rex Grossman. I say 'relatively outstanding' play by Rex Grossman because his play in 2006 was MVP-like compared to last year. Not only that, but the duo of Thomas Jones and Cedric Benson at running back allowed Chicago a pretty good ground attack.

Had Tampa Bay not had Brad Johnson or Baltimore, Trent Dilfer, neither of the teams would have been able to achieve the Super Bowl success that either team did. Both of those guys effectively controlled the ball on offense to allow their defense to rest and then force turnovers because of those fresh legs. If the 2006 Bears had a better quarterback than Rex Grossman, then they would have had a better chance to beat Indianapolis; though, I very much doubt a better quarterback would have made much of a difference against Peyton Manning because right now the only other quarterback in the league that can rival Manning is Tom Brady.

Last year's Super Bowl is similar to the Tampa Bay and Baltimore situations. Eli Manning really picked up his game at the end of the year. He did enough to keep his defense off the field and allow them to stay fresh. That Giants defense was outstanding in the pass rush and the less tired they were, the faster they were able to get to the opposing quarterback.

Also, look at the teams in the NFL right now. All of the teams projected to do well have very good quarterbacks, except for Minnesota. Minnesota has a very good defense and a great running game and unless Tavaris Jackson can do something decent in the passing game, then that team will not be able to go as far as they would with a good/great/elite quarterback.

Aside: I am starting to sound a bit like a Tom Brady/New England Patriots fanboy. Though, that could not be farther from the truth. Really watching any other quarterback in the league has been better than what the 49ers have put out the last couple years. Maybe Mike Martz can turn the quarterback play around.

 

[Max Powers]

My vote.

2WR 2RB 1WR/RB

QB Touchdown Points: 6

-2 for interceptions

 

[FoolKiller]

EDIT: I just noticed the playoffs go until Week 17, otherwise known as the last week of the regular season. I do not know that I want the playoffs going until the last week of the regular season. Teams tend to bench players or play them less than normal and that can really screw with fantasy football teams. But I do like having six teams get into the playoffs, as it gives more teams the chance to win the league.

I agree. Optimally the league is done after week 16.

I switched it to weeks 14-15-16. I just snagged the last three week, not thinking about it.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

 

[Danoff]

Last year's Super Bowl is similar to the Tampa Bay and Baltimore situations.

Good point. I hadn't thought about how last year's superbowl shows how a solid defense can be more important than having the 2nd best QB (obviously Peyton is the best).

 

[thugbear2005]

I agree that one of the roster positions for a WR should be flexable, either 3 WR/2 RB or the other way around.

 

[Joey D]

I really don't have a say, how ever you guys decide I'll be ok with.

 

[Brett]

Good point. I hadn't thought about how last year's superbowl shows how a solid defense can be more important than having the 2nd best QB (obviously Peyton is the best).

Are you being sarcastic at this point? I cannot tell. Otherwise, I do not see the point of this post.

 

[Danoff]

Are you being sarcastic at this point? I cannot tell. Otherwise, I do not see the point of this post.

Nope, I was agreeing with you.

 

[Max Powers]

Well, I just drafted for one of my leagues last night, and I'm not sure what to think, some players I'm really excited about, and some positions are really worrying me because of injury. Anyway, here's who I got. I had the 6th overall pick by the way in the 1st round.

QB: Donovan McNabb
WR: Randy Moss
WR: Wes Welker
RB: Maurice Jones-Drew
RB: Brandon Jacobs
TE: Dallas Clark
D: Jacksonville
K: Shayne Graham

BN: Donald Driver WR
BN: Fred Taylor RB
BN: Jon Kitna QB
BN: Derrick Mason WR
BN: Kenny Watson RB
BN: Deuce Mcallister RB

I really like how I look at receiver and running back, but McNabb scares me with his injuries (and puts up great numbers when healthy), and Kitna is just a straight up crapshoot. The only problem with this league is that waiver pickups are a dollar each, so my starting team is much more important to me. Usually I pick up half of my starters from waivers during the season.

 

[UnoMOTO]

McNabb AND Kitna...

It's gonna be a long season for you.

 

[Joey D]

Especially since the Lions will fail in every conceivable way.

 

[Max Powers]

McNabb will put up big numbers for as long as he stays healthy, Kitna is always a gamble but he has some big games from time to time, and throws for a ton of yardage. If not...then there's always a few up and comers on the waiver wire.

 

[JFM92_GTRacer]

Did I miss the draft?

I've been waiting for an email or some type of notification.

But if I didn't miss the draft, then i'm open pretty much anytime except sundays.

 

[FoolKiller]

Did I miss the draft?

I've been waiting for an email or some type of notification.

But if I didn't miss the draft, then i'm open pretty much anytime except sundays.

I believe that we have pretty much settled on the default date I put in of August 29th.

You may want to read back and weigh in on the QB points and flex position vote. The -2 points for interception debate was unanimous.

I failed to tally them when I said I would so if you have an opinion throw it in there.

That is going to be a busy weekend for me. August 29th - GTPFFL Draft, August 30th - real-life draft, August 31st Kentucky vs Louisville rivalry football game for the Governor's Cup. September 1st - Labor Day, nursing my tailgating hangover.

 

[Earth]

Mud Dogs are registered

 

[JFM92_GTRacer]

I believe that we have pretty much settled on the default date I put in of August 29th.

You may want to read back and weigh in on the QB points and flex position vote. The -2 points for interception debate was unanimous.

I failed to tally them when I said I would so if you have an opinion throw it in there.

That is going to be a busy weekend for me. August 29th - GTPFFL Draft, August 30th - real-life draft, August 31st Kentucky vs Louisville rivalry football game for the Governor's Cup. September 1st - Labor Day, nursing my tailgating hangover.

Sweet, I should be open. I'm going to San Fran the next day.

 

[UnoMOTO]

Mud Dogs are registered

Nice...Welcome to the fun!

 

[UnoMOTO]

How this for my draft tonight in one of my other leagues? (8 teams)

QB - Payton Manning
WR - Braylon Edwards
WR - Wes Welker
WR - Dwayne Bowe
RB - LaDainian Tomlinson
RB - Brandon Jacobs
TE - Heath Miller
K - Mason Crosby
DEF - Jacksonville

BN - Earnest Graham RB
BN - Ronnie Brown RB
BN - Donald Driver WR
BN - Anthony Gonzalez WR
BN - Phillip Rivers QB
BN - Donald Lee TE

 

[FoolKiller]

Sorry I've been slow on updating stuff guys. I have been distracted by real life lately.

Things should be clearing up now though. Of course, work just added Yahoo Fantasy Sports to be blocked by the proxy.....so, I'll have to take care of stuff when I get home.

Expect the rule changes to be done this weekend.

 

[UnoMOTO]

pfsst....doesn't the hospital have wireless.

I will find out tonight if I have a problem with our draft. Tonight is the league meeting for bowling. If our first night is next week then I will have to miss the draft. That would be super sucky as last nights draft was really fun.

 

[FoolKiller]

pfsst....doesn't the hospital have wireless.

Yes, and I actually took my PSP in order to check in on some of this stuff, but then they put IVs in both hands, which made PSP usage a bit painful.

 

[UnoMOTO]

I was joking but I should have known better!