GTR/GTR2 vs Grand Tourismo
- Thread starter waterpoloinc
- 90 comments
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McLaren
Premium
- 45,720
- Texas
Well, those aren't PD's exact words, i'll give you that.
They call it:
"Online Car Life Simulator"
Those are their exact words to describe the genere of the title, according to the GT5data sheet.
Seems to me they do consider it a simulator.
Online Car Life Simulator? Huh. Maybe that'll be one thing some of these Forza fans can stop arguing about then.
- 4,004
- Croatia
Technicaly, Gran Turismo series was always "The Real Driving Simulator" and somehow it seems like the most appropriate nomination of all.
Next-gen GT games are obviusely coming with abriviation "Online Car Life Simulator" and I can bet all my money that none of us here have no idea what PD is REALLY working on for GT5 in order to fulfill that nomination in temrns of game structure and game content.
"Simulation" in GT series have never apllied only to driving itself - just take into concern used cars aspect, oil-change, true names for car colors, licenced rims, B-Spec and chasis-recycle options It is all simulation of "ownership" too, which is very important part when speaking about usage of the word "simulation".
It should be consired much more wider in meaning, than in other games.
Next-gen GT games are obviusely coming with abriviation "Online Car Life Simulator" and I can bet all my money that none of us here have no idea what PD is REALLY working on for GT5 in order to fulfill that nomination in temrns of game structure and game content.
"Simulation" in GT series have never apllied only to driving itself - just take into concern used cars aspect, oil-change, true names for car colors, licenced rims, B-Spec and chasis-recycle options It is all simulation of "ownership" too, which is very important part when speaking about usage of the word "simulation".
It should be consired much more wider in meaning, than in other games.
exacly GTR2 has no better engine the GT..
besides GTR2 is a racing sim...
GT is a The Real Driving Simulator...
so racing and driving are 2 different things..
if gtr2 was that good of a sim as people say in terms of driving and handling.. why is it so damn hard to drift? its easier then you might think in real life.. and in GT too.
Because the cars in GTR2 have slicks and a car setup that provides as much GRIP as possible?
And drifting irl isn't as easy as you claim.
Well, i think GT still has ways to go as far as realistic driving goes. Even though they have gotten a lot better.
It just feels to me they need to start a new physics engine with out any of the old assets for refference.
(seeing the jump on the GT5
intro of the track from GT HD reminds me of old GT physics for SOME reason... -_-;.)The reason a lot of people like GT over many other sims though, is the fact that you can drive street cars too, which to me has always been one of the biggest appeals.
That and it appeals the graphics whore in all of us, PD just knows how to make their games look like pure quality.
But i think i'm not alone in hoping PD starts to use more resources for aspects of the game that haven't evolved much over the past decade.
I've said this before, but i don't think there's any other game developer in the planet that has the resources, and more importantly the skill to make a simulator that will satisfy both the really hard core sim fan and the avarage Joe.
GT5 will be all about showing off the PS3's power and online support, which to me will finally add endless replay value. (after doing 700+ laps on nurburgring in time trial it does get kinda boring to compete against yourself all the time...)
So, here's to hoping GT6 will use the PS3 not just to appeal the graphics whore in all of us, but more to implement long overdue overhauls in aspects that will make the game more realistic.
McLaren
Premium
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- Texas
LMAO. GTR's physics engine blows Console sims away. You can't drift in GTR2 b/c of the simple reason that....FIA GT cars aren't made to drift.
As kikie said, in GTR (and any other ISI-powered games) you're pretty much stuck with racecars with limited steering lock (less ability to countersteer) and racing slicks, which have very abrupt transitions between grip and slip (compared to more-progressive road tires).
Furthermore, the ISI engine itself (the physics engine underlying GTR/GTR2/GTL/rFactor/etc) is somewhat well-known in hardcore-simulation circles for its limited tire simulation, which works fine when the tire is rotating in roughly the same direction as it is travelling, but falls apart when it is not (eg. when the car is drifting sideways). In this sense, GTR and the other ISI games are similar to GT4 -- they seem okay when you're "grip driving," but are hopelessly inaccurate with oversteer or drifting. This is why Live for Speed is a better choice than rFactor if you have roadcars and oversteer in mind.
In any case, if we restrict our examination to "grip driving," GTR and the ISI games still blow GT4 out of the water.
Actually, it's really not that hard. The common misconception is that "drifting" refers to what you see in D1GP, when D1GP showcases a very precise and highly-stylized form of drifting. "Ordinary" drifting is little more than controlled oversteer -- if you can hold a slide for a corner or two, that's good enough.
- 6,102
- Simcoeace
Like Kamus says, I have enjoyed the driving in GT4 more than the actual racing. Is it wrong for me to want GT5 to provide a better racing experience? Races in GT4 feel like Time Trials with moving obstacles rather than true racing.
I have not had the opportunity to try LFS or GTR2 because I'm a Mac guy
but I would be curious to hear how it compares with F1:Ce which I have just started playing. F1 cars are so extreme in their performance that they barely seem like cars at all, but the racing in F1:CE - real white-knuckle stuff - is certainly fun. 
I have not had the opportunity to try LFS or GTR2 because I'm a Mac guy
but I would be curious to hear how it compares with F1:Ce which I have just started playing. F1 cars are so extreme in their performance that they barely seem like cars at all, but the racing in F1:CE - real white-knuckle stuff - is certainly fun. I'm not sure it would be entirely fair to compare LFS to F1:CE, because although LFS has the BMW Sauber F1.07, its roadcar simulation is where it really shines. GTR2 is even less comparable, considering it has nothing but touring cars.I have not had the opportunity to try LFS or GTR2 because I'm a Mac guy
Either way, though, I haven't played F1:CE so I'm about as helpful in those comparisons as you are.
- 1,238
- RocketPunch1221
- RRoD? no thanks.
There is really nothing to compare.
GTR/GTR2 is a race sim.
GTR/GTR2 is a race sim.
waterpoloinc
(Banned)
- 59
- CollinBraun
- CollinBraun
F1 CE is a normal race game no simulation. You cant compare that with each other. F1 CE is a great game and a lot of fun. But it is about as close to reality as elephants can fly.
- 7,830
- U S A
- Tetsumura
- Nigel Fox
Honestly, I hated GTR and got rid of it as fast as I could. The view of the track was horrible. The cars were unruly and unresponsive, and felt quite floaty and disconnected. I constantly muffed turns and got quite sick of the warnings. And with cars so involved that even the radiator cap is tunable (?!) they needed a crew chief to help with all the million tuning options. That's why they exist, so the driver doesn't have to mess with all that crap. It didn't help that the Starforce copy protection virus ruined my PC. Live for Speed never stood a chance either, as it wouldn't work at all the way it was supposed to.
I don't know why I've had nothing but bad luck with PC racing, but I've about had it with PC gaming anyway, outside of Half Life, Battlefield and Anarchy Online. Gran Turismo for all it's faults is still an excellent racer and provides what simulation it needs to. And with GT5, it looks like PC gamers will be looking over their shoulder, as the steps towards full simulation grow ever shorter.
I don't know why I've had nothing but bad luck with PC racing, but I've about had it with PC gaming anyway, outside of Half Life, Battlefield and Anarchy Online. Gran Turismo for all it's faults is still an excellent racer and provides what simulation it needs to. And with GT5, it looks like PC gamers will be looking over their shoulder, as the steps towards full simulation grow ever shorter.
- 6
I've tried RFactor, GTR2 and a few other PC racers and so far GTR2 seems the best to me in terms of actual racing against the computer. GTR2 for me still felt a lot like I was mostly racing myself (since I was nowhere near the skill level I had set the game at) but i was at least racing middle of the pack rather than way out in the lead or waaaaaaayyy back of the pack.
As far as having fun driving I think GT4 is still my favorite. Maybe it's because the tracks are all familiar to me. Or maybe it's because the physics are very forgiving. But I get an overall better experience from GT4 and that's the reason that no matter what I get for my PC I always end up on a GT4 sim with 3 or 4 of my friends.
As far as having fun driving I think GT4 is still my favorite. Maybe it's because the tracks are all familiar to me. Or maybe it's because the physics are very forgiving. But I get an overall better experience from GT4 and that's the reason that no matter what I get for my PC I always end up on a GT4 sim with 3 or 4 of my friends.
- 6,102
- Simcoeace
Why would you say that? The cars have such incredible grip, acceleration & braking it's quite unlike the performance of "real" cars. Can't say I've had a lot of experience driving F1 cars
, but looking at F1 video, does seem quite close to F1:CE in the way the cars react.What does that mean? It's certainly nothing at all like Need For Speed, PGR etc. It is very technical, precise & demanding (probably why it received poor reviews & has been perceived as a "niche" game) much like F1 itself.
I don't know how it is in GTR, but in F1:CE it's a challenge just to finish a race without your car disintigrating - that's quite unlike GT4 where you can bash away to your hearts content with zero consequences.
waterpoloinc
(Banned)
- 59
- CollinBraun
- CollinBraun
GTR may have flaws but if you think that the driving physics are not good than eighter you dont know what you are talking about or you were just not really good at the game.
- 36,716
- Scotland
- GTP_daan
So is his opinion wrong because it disagrees with yours?
waterpoloinc
(Banned)
- 59
- CollinBraun
- CollinBraun
- 6,102
- Simcoeace
Waterpoloinc:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=95675
There's a certain lack of credibility in your opinions...
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=95675
There's a certain lack of credibility in your opinions...
- 5,603
- England, Warwickshire
- GTP_Sigma
Come of it Dave, of course his opinion is the correct one without doubt, don't forget Colin has REAL experience with driving GT cars in a brisk manner. He no doubt know which one is the most realistic...
Ain't that right Colin.
Seriously though, not everyone agrees with your opinion, so don't state it as such. Most people do agree with your opinion, myself included. Don't state however that 'anybody who has played the game agrees' with you though, this is simply not true, it is an exageration, something you got in trouble for last time right?
- 2,461
look. GTR and the sequel are great fun for those periods of time when you are "zoned in". the AI racing experienced is peerless, the physics and sound are top notch.
but when you want to just have fun, it's a frustrating experience with too many goddamn sliding toggles and cryptic technical stuff. and wipeouts.
GT is dull and fairly unrealistic, but at least you can get through it and feel satisfied when you buy or unlock that gorgeous new car. it's like a stroll through a nice park compared to a 400 meter sprint against professional athletes. Some prefer one to the other. You can't expect to compare them. .....Unless you still take what PD says seriously....
but when you want to just have fun, it's a frustrating experience with too many goddamn sliding toggles and cryptic technical stuff. and wipeouts.
GT is dull and fairly unrealistic, but at least you can get through it and feel satisfied when you buy or unlock that gorgeous new car. it's like a stroll through a nice park compared to a 400 meter sprint against professional athletes. Some prefer one to the other. You can't expect to compare them. .....Unless you still take what PD says seriously....
- 302
Honestly, look closer.Why would you say that? The cars have such incredible grip, acceleration & braking it's quite unlike the performance of "real" cars. Can't say I've had a lot of experience driving F1 cars
I was expecting this excuse to come up in this thread
It's just a marketing slogan. Can you complete 90% of GT4 without racing? There's your answer. And what comes to "this game has only race cars while this game has only road cars" - in real life, there are no different physics for different cars. Basic aspects in the physics are always comparable as long as there are four wheels.I'm a PC simmer mostly and since GT2, I've never taken GT that seriously as a simulator. And probably going to think the same about GT5 too without some drastical changes in certain areas (starting from dumping the old physics assets arriving from GT4). Main difference between GTR2 and GT4 is not the platform itself (basicly), not the available steering equipments, not the available processing power (on most PC sims, the actual physics calculation HARDLY takes most of the CPU usage) but mainly the difference is in the core audience and the starting point.
If you're going to make something that's supposed to be realistic, it's little bit easier to achieve that if you develop a game to a very devoted audience where most of players wants only realism over cool graphics and where probably at least 90% of the players owns a wheel and pedals. PC sims are a very niche market, where developers knows what the players wants.
Compare that to situation with GT or Forza series; console offers large audiences, varying from casual gamers to more HC drivers and to please everyone you have to dumb it down enough and basicly optimize the game to be played with gamepad. Because you don't drive a real car with pad, that's a big doorstep. Of course G25 is available on PS3 too and DFP was on PS2 and so on but majority of the players do not own a wheel.
So I think in the end it all comes basicly to what the developers wants to do; nothing is stopping developers making a hardcore sim for consoles. Maybe it's just lack of interest or unclear views how a game like that would do financially. A bit same thing with flight simulators, altough in that case there's really an issue with lack of proper controllers.
The "real driving simulator" slogan has always given me high blood pressure.
Of course it's marketing hype and stuff but I think it's just not giving the whole picture. I honestly think many of the casual players at least thinks GT4 was really the most realistic game evah, all thanks to this (altough very successful) marketing and hype. It kind of takes the glory away from the "real sims". This is just how I see it as a PC simmer. I remember somewhere Kazunori said something like that he don't play other driving games - if it is true, it really explains a lot. I'd be also intrigued to hear what Kazunori honestly thinks about the physics and does he actually want to make a realistic game or a million selling game that Sony wants. I guess I'll never know.
