GTS vs GT6 - Cars comparison

[Mateusz90]

This "Dino Drama"...
It's all about angles and the focal length of the camera lens
These comparisons of models from GT6, GT Sport and real life are ridiculous.
How can you know distance from car, focal length of the camera lens, angle and many more factors that were used by shooting photo of the real car? And even if you know all technical adjustments and factors of the photo from a real car, how would you imitate all these factors in photo mode of a game?

How a Lens’ Focal Length Affects Distortion & Perspective

 

[ImaRobot]

This "Dino Drama"...
It's all about angles and the focal length of the camera lens
These comparisons of models from GT6, GT Sport and real life are ridiculous.
How can you know distance from car, focal length of the camera lens, angle and many more factors that were used by shooting photo of the real car? And even if you know all technical adjustments and factors of the photo from a real car, how would you imitate all these factors in photo mode of a game?

How a Lens’ Focal Length Affects Distortion & Perspective

Focal length, distance, camera lens, and angle aren't changing the position of the parts of the vehicle. They're just flat out in the wrong spots/wrong sizes. Using your example, just because there's a different angle/perspective, doesn't mean her lips got pushed down a few centimeters, or her eyes shifting to the right of her face.

Either way, @emula has done a fairly good job at replicating the angles used, almost to a T. Making it easier to make these comparisons.

 

[Nielsen]

This "Dino Drama"...
It's all about angles and the focal length of the camera lens

No, it's not.

 

[Mateusz90]

No, it's not.

Really? Look how flat is the back from grey Dino and how big it's taillights seem to be.

 

[ImaRobot]

Really? Look how flat is the back from grey Dino and how big it's taillights seem to be.View attachment 794968 View attachment 794969

They look exactly the same size, relative to the position and size of the vehicle. The different angle isn’t putting things in a different area, or making things a different size relative to the vehicle. What you’re saying doesn’t work in the context of the discussion.

Even looking at those photos, you can still tell the back of the car is off in GTS.

 

[Nielsen]

Really? Look how flat is the back from grey Dino and how big it's taillights seem to be.

That's because the two cars you posted have different dimensions. Not the same.

Edit: I thought you posted the car from GTS in the above picture, which I'm not sure it is. You may have point that perspective can make things look different, but please take a moment to look at the car in GTS vs. the one in GT6. Those two are clearly not the same.

 

[Mateusz90]

Still the same Dino or something went wrong by Ferrari?

That's because the two cars you posted have different dimensions. Not the same.

Edit: I thought you posted the car from GTS in the above picture, which I'm not sure it is. You may have point that perspective can make things look different, but please take a moment to look at the car in GTS vs. the one in GT6. Those two are clearly not the same.

This red one from previous post is 1971 Dino sold in 2017 for 291200 Euro, it's not from game
You're right, GT6 and GTS models seem to be slightly different, just like these two real cars above. They may be different models, they may be not. Even if GTS version is different we can't be sure, if it isn't now more accurate to real car?

 

[ImaRobot]

Still the same Dino or something went wrong by Ferrari?
View attachment 795012



This red one from previous post is 1971 Dino sold in 2017 for 291200 Euro, it's not from game
You're right, GT6 and GTS models seem to be slightly different, just like these two real cars above. They may be different models, they may be not. Even if GTS version is different we can't be sure, if it isn't now more accurate to real car?

What you're still not realizing is that not only is the lights too small, but the gap above the lights is far too large, and that the bumpers are a lot lower and closer to the crease in the bumper on the GTS model. The cars that you've been posting, none have that issue. This isn't a matter of perspective. The GTS doesn't resemble any of the vehicles posted, but GT6 model definitely does

What you're showing with these images doesn't really correlate to the discussion. You're using perspective to show differences. Two completely different and extremely noticeable perspectives. That doesn't hold up well when the perspectives being compared, while not an exact replica, are almost so on point that it makes that your point doesn't hold much. Not only that, it's easy to make the comparison when you take the relative size of the vehicle or parts when compared as the relative sizes shouldn't be changing just because you're viewing it from a different angle. Perspective will never change that unless the lens is heavily distorted, like a fisheye, which isn't happening here.

 

[Griffith500]

What you're still not realizing is that not only is the lights too small, but ...

I'm fairly sure it is just that. The lights are too small. The rest follows from that. Other minor inaccuracies could easily be of the same order of magnitude as per-car manufacturing and assembly variations / errors for the era (look at the bent bumper to accommodate the reversing light on the previous page).

Otherwise, and regardless of how accurate the model is or isn't, what is being said about perspective is 100% correct, glaringly obvious and actually quite dramatic, as demonstrated. It doesn't account for all of the differences, but it absolutely certainly plays into it.

Which is presumably why emula goes to the effort of matching camera angles. That should not be taken for granted, nor disingenuously, in my opinion.

 

[emula]

I'm fairly sure it is just that. The lights are too small. The rest follows from that.

This

Real

GTS

Real

GTS (tail lights too small like in GT6)

GTS (tail lights size fixed with photophop)

So:

GT6: wrong back height and tail lights too small
GTS: fixed back height but tail lights still too small

 

[ImaRobot]

I'm fairly sure it is just that. The lights are too small. The rest follows from that. Other minor inaccuracies could easily be of the same order of magnitude as per-car manufacturing and assembly variations / errors for the era (look at the bent bumper to accommodate the reversing light on the previous page).

Otherwise, and regardless of how accurate the model is or isn't, what is being said about perspective is 100% correct, glaringly obvious and actually quite dramatic, as demonstrated. It doesn't account for all of the differences, but it absolutely certainly plays into it.

Which is presumably why emula goes to the effort of matching camera angles. That should not be taken for granted, nor disingenuously, in my opinion.

I'm thinking that it's not just a simple light size difference. I agree that perspective has play here, but not to the extent that is being portrayed at all, really, and never disagreed with such. I even specifically mentioned @emula's work done, and how his angle replication is leaving little room for error in these comparisons. It wouldn't be altering dimensions of these objects to create pretty noticeable differences, though.

Either way, I'm inclined to disagree.

The replication in the angles between GTS and GT6 is good enough to be able to notice that there definitely is something amiss, even if we don't look at the real life image. From what I see, the part above the lights is fairly larger, and the parts right under the metal bumper is either slightly bigger near the end of the curve, or just better illuminated.

This gif shows it pretty well, too. Even if we'd raised the angle in GTS image so it sits higher vertically, to match more with the GT6 Image, it would still be showing that fairly large gap over the lights. I notice that even the curvature is difference right above, and along the outside light.

 

[Mateusz90]

What is interessing, is fact, that Dino from Forza looks very similar to GTS's model. (too small taillights, large gap over the lights). Forza's Dino is 1969 model, so it's from another source.

 

[ImaRobot]

What is interessing, is fact, that Dino from Forza looks very similar to GTS's model. (too small taillights, large gap over the lights). Forza's Dino is 1969 model, so it's from another source.

View attachment 795078

Someone else mentioned that too, and I was going to check it out when I get home, but the gap above the lights matches more with GT6 than GTS to be honest. I’ll be able to get a better picture later though.

 

[ScottPuss20]

This

Real

GTS

Real

GTS (tail lights too small like in GT6)

GTS (tail lights size fixed with photophop)

Even then it still looks off.

 

[ImaRobot]

This

Real

GTS

Real

GTS (tail lights too small like in GT6)

GTS (tail lights size fixed with photophop)

So:

GT6: wrong back height and tail lights too small
GTS: fixed back height but tail lights still too small

Would be interesting to see the GT6 images at this angle as well. Particularly of the rear lights.

 

[bdj57]

Alright guys it is time to move on. We all knew and agree there is certain fault at work so we can only hope for fixes. There is other thing to do than arguing about taillights tbh... Everyone had different perspective and I respect any opinion and critics in this thread but if this is going too far it would be kind of stretch in my opinion.

 

[Aphelion]

Alright guys it is time to move on. We all knew and agree there is certain fault at work so we can only hope for fixes. There is other thing to do than arguing about taillights tbh... Everyone had different perspective and I respect any opinion and critics in this thread but if this is going too far it would be kind of stretch in my opinion.

To be honest so far its just been a calm debate about what could be the issue or whether or not there is an issue.

 

[SDSPOWER01]

I can kind of see what @emula is trying to do but I can also see that @ImaRobot is trying to say aswell.
It's like I am in between.

But I mean the difference needs to be zoomed in to notice the difference (seriously it's not that big of a deal and therefore I can see some people saying it's wrong or right).
In my viewpoint I seem to realise that the curve seems to "curve" much sooner in the GT6 model than the GTS model one.
Therefore it gives me the impression that the taillights are "smaller" in the GTS model but both tailights are identical in size in both GT6 and GTS imo.

But seriously though these are very minor details and well this shows that PD are also human.

 

[bdj57]

To be honest so far its just been a calm debate about what could be the issue or whether or not there is an issue.

Yes it is still fine but I just hope this won't get too long. Well, maybe I'm not in the mood today that is why... By the way, as long things under control it is okay then. 👍 Not going to complaint about the discussions or anything as it stays like this.

 

[Castrol96]

If the Dino model was made from Laser Scanned data it would be pretty much exact.

The error implies the model was made with Blueprints. Which may be outsourced.

I know these types of errors, I modelled an GTR using Blueprints once and noticed the rear had a similar issue to the Dino.

However, if this is outsourced we will have more cars but the quality may vary.

 

[Aphelion]

If the Dino model was made from Laser Scanned data it would be pretty much exact.

The error implies the model was made with Blueprints. Which may be outsourced.

I know these types of errors, I modelled an GTR using Blueprints once and noticed the rear had a similar issue to the Dino.

However, if this is outsourced we will have more cars but the quality may vary.

I dunno, the model itself looks brilliant. This appears to be the only issue with it. I still have a hunch that PD just used a different car to reference model and it just has slightly different rear lines. Either that or its just an honest mistake and no-one caught it. If it was an outsourceing quality issue, surely you would see similar issues throught the model?

 

[Trux]

Yes it is still fine but I just hope this won't get too long. Well, maybe I'm not in the mood today that is why... By the way, as long things under control it is okay then. 👍 Not going to complaint about the discussions or anything as it stays like this.

I’m enjoying the discussion, very interesting even if not partaking in it myself.

 

[Griffith500]

I wonder if they used one of those scale models? Would be a good shortcut, as the model manufacturer would have done a load of research before making their facsimile, and might explain how two games made the same mistake.

That is, if indeed it is a mistake in the sense we see it to be - it might be because of different body tooling used in a different factory. The 206 was reportedly hand made by Ferrari - it used an aluminium body and engine. The 246 was slightly longer (specifically at the engine cover), made from steel and had an iron engine block. Those engines were assembled by FIAT, who also sold their own Dino models - the steel bodies for which were outsourced to Bertone and Pininfarina (who always were proper coachbuilders, though we've come to know them as pure design companies).

EDIT: 206 in profile for comparison

Even then it still looks off.

I think it just needs the lights bumping inboard a smidge. Now, for me, it's the bumper that is most jarring, it's too "perfect". Look at the droop on the real one!


What I'm getting from this discussion is how different everyone's perception is, not in a right or wrong sense, just different; particularly in terms of what is or isn't noticed and what the focus is. It's also clear that it's another one of those things that needs training - "it looks off, but can't say why / how".

 

[RedBaron]

They just used the wrong diecast car for modelling :-)

 

[emula]

@emula Could you do some comparison shots between ray tracing and without it please?

GTS pics from realtime

GTS pic from Photomode

 

[turk1993]

GTS pics from realtime

GTS pic from Photomode

This is one of the best comparison to show what ray tracing is about. People that downplay it should look at this and tell me if its still a gimmick.

 

[GTV0819]

If GTS had some sort of rusts physics, I wonder how it would look like.

 

[Castrol96]

This is one of the best comparison to show what ray tracing is about. People that downplay it should look at this and tell me if its still a gimmick.

The car body reflecting on the chrome parts looks neat!

Now I wonder how realistic the next GT will look like?

 

[sparkytooth]

Its even a subtly different model of the E Type compared to the one in GTS, look at the taillights, the solder points on the wheels and the underbody.

 

[PettyWingman]

Its even a subtly different model of the E Type compared to the one in GTS, look at the taillights, the solder points on the wheels and the underbody.

The ingame picture shows the right wheel, but RT picture shows the left one.