GTS vs GT6 - Cars comparison

[ImaRobot]

Outsourcing or not, it's ultimately PD's fault that quality assurance took a nap.

Surely, but would that money be well spent paying someone to do the same thing twice? Who knows what else comes into play. Who knows what actually happened, though.

 

[Nielsen]

Surely, but would that money be well spent paying someone to do the same thing twice?

All it takes for PD is some eagle-eyed employee to offer a second opinion, and inform the possible third-party supplier in case something needs more work. Maybe they already have this, but things slipped through for whatever reasons.

 

[ImaRobot]

All it takes for PD is some eagle-eyed employee to offer a second opinion, and inform the possible third-party supplier in case something needs more work. Maybe they already have this, but things slipped through for whatever reasons.

While true, it leads back to my first point. Is it worth it? Who knows. The BMW is an odd one too have such sharp edges, especially in the Scapes mode, so maybe it's something that'll get worked on. Like mentioned maybe it's just a tesselation bug?

Maybe it just slipped through, or maybe they're trying to up production so they left the minor issues?

 

[Nielsen]

I just checked the Ferrari Dino in Forza and it appears to have the same tall rear as it does in GTS. Maybe Turn 10 and PD (or their respective model suppliers) got the scanned car data from the same supplier, which may have scanned a car that is abnormal either due to rebuilding or similar?

While true, it leads back to my first point. Is it worth it?

GT has always been a pride in demonstrating contemporary Playstation graphics, and nowadays they can't do that without taking 4K modelling extremely serious. Sony is even using Gran Turismo to demonstrate their new 8K displays, which makes perfect sense given how GT in many ways feels like an expansive tech demo.

Like mentioned maybe it's just a tesselation bug?

Hopefully.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I would imagine that with such a large roster, and previous promises made about their goals, they've shot themselves in the foot with releasing content in a reasonable time frame. That likely led to outsourcing, with varying results.

Eh, there's no promise PD is held to anymore: it aimed for 50 cars by the end of March 2018 and hit it. There's Kaz' stated rough goal of 400–500 cars, but that was a target, not a promise. It's not like the target for the Vision GT program was ever hit either...

 

[ImaRobot]

I just checked the Ferrari Dino in Forza and it appears to have the same tall rear as it does in GTS. Maybe Turn 10 and PD got the scanned car data from the same supplier, which may have scanned a car that is abnormal either due to rebuilding or similar?

That's definitely interesting. I mean, it would make sense to go to a company that has been doing it, and likely has a reference model already available, so that can very likely be it. Or maybe said company just didn't model it correctly, even with accurate reference material?

GT has always been a pride for demonstrating contemporary Playstation graphics, and nowadays they can't do that without taking 4K modelling extremely serious. Sony is even using Gran Turismo to demonstrate their new 8K displays, which makes perfect sense given how GT in many ways feels like an expansive tech demo.

That's very true, but it still hasn't stopped it's share of inconsistencies anyways. Either way, they seem to fix models here and there, unlike T10, so there's hope still.

Eh, there's no promise PD is held to anymore: it aimed for 50 cars by the end of March 2018 and hit it. There's Kaz' stated rough goal of 400–500 cars, but that was a target, not a promise. It's not like the target for the Vision GT program was ever hit either...

Ah that's right. I still believe that the ultimate roster size from previous entries may be a reason that lead them to outsourcing, though. They definitely churned out a good chunk for a year straight, but it'll be quite some time before they ever catch up to the content size of the past.

Although, thinking about it, I'm willing to bet that we wont ever see a list that large, at least with a Sport-styled game.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I just checked the Ferrari Dino in Forza and it appears to have the same tall rear as it does in GTS. Maybe Turn 10 and PD (and/or their respective model suppliers) got the scanned car data from the same supplier, which may have scanned a car that is abnormal either due to rebuilding or similar?

If they modeled it off a replica, I would be quite upset considering how PD pays great attention to detail.

 

[Mateusz90]

Did PD have similar problems with rounded objects by other models from GT6 in the past (like Z8), that were corrected in an update?

 

[PettyWingman]

Did PD have similar problems with rounded objects by other models from GT6 in the past (like Z8), that were corrected in an update?

The wheels of Alpine A110 '72 were fixed via 1.28 update in September 2018.
Originally its exterior was new model, but the wheels were carryover from GT6.
Those were replaced with newly-modeled ones.

↓For detail...
https://granturismo.forumfree.it/m/?t=76022791

But actually, the new ones were already used in the update screenshots in February.
So that might be a mistake or something.

 

[queleuleu]

The imperfect round shapes (exhaust pipe etc.) on the Z8 are too ugly for 4K.

IMO, it's just a matter of approximation (the right order), something wrong with the implementation? I can't believe someone at Poly used a basic regular polygonal for this exhaust pipe when subdivision surface modeling is used extensively in GTSport.

 

[emula]

all the open top cars imported from GT5 / GT6 (Ferrari 330 P4, Jaguar XJ13, BMW Z8) don't use tessellation . It can't be a coincidence but there must be some technical limitation

 

[Nomadpt1]

all the open top cars imported from GT5 / GT6 (Ferrari 330 P4, Jaguar XJ13, BMW Z8) don't use tessellation . It can't be a coincidence but there must be some technical limitation

Probably because of chase cam, since these are open top, the console is rendering the full interior but on hard top cars the console is rendering only parts of the interior at full quality.

 

[SDSPOWER01]

Probably because of chase cam, since these are open top, the console is rendering the full interior but on hard top cars the console is rendering only parts of the interior at full quality.

Can the same be said about the Shelby Cobra though???

 

[ImaRobot]

Probably because of chase cam, since these are open top, the console is rendering the full interior but on hard top cars the console is rendering only parts of the interior at full quality.

the game loads different things depending on the view used? You’d think It would have to render it all from the get go, in order to avoid rough interruption when transitioning from different views, especially interior view.

 

[PettyWingman]

Can the same be said about the Shelby Cobra though???

Cobra's model is not a carryover from GT6.
That's newly-made one.

 

[eran0004]

the game loads different things depending on the view used? You’d think It would have to render it all from the get go, in order to avoid rough interruption when transitioning from different views, especially interior view.

Rendering is done per frame, so you don’t need to render the entire car at once. I suspect the actual mesh needs to have been loaded though so that it can quickly be rendered when needed.

The chase cam theory sounds plausible I think, especially if it’s the same for a lot of the open top cars.

 

[ImaRobot]

Cobra's model is not a carryover from GT6.
That's newly-made one.

Technically, none of these are supposed to be carried over. The truth behind that, we don't know.

Rendering is done per frame, so you don’t need to render the entire car at once. I suspect the actual mesh needs to have been loaded though so that it can quickly be rendered when needed.

The chase cam theory sounds plausible I think, especially if it’s the same for a lot of the open top cars.

Ah ok, that makes sense.

 

[emula]

Can the same be said about the Shelby Cobra though???

The use of tessellation on the Shelby Cobra is very limited compared to the full super premium cars

However, about the Ferrari Dino, the height of the back is definitely correct now, they only forgot to fix the tail lights size that is too small (like in GT6)

 

[ImaRobot]

The use of tessellation on the Shelby Cobra is very limited compared to the full super premium cars

However, about the Ferrari Dino, the height of the back is definitely correct now, they only forgot to fix the tail lights size that are too small (like in GT6)

That is still not correct. It's actually fairly obvious that the GTS model has a taller backplate right above the lights, for some reason. The GT6 model was much more closer to the real life model. At least that means that it was redone rather than touched up

Why is one measured from the metal bumper, and one line measured from the bottom crease in the rear? It also looks like the actual metal bumper placement seems off.

EDIT: Looking at it again, I think it's a combination of errors. From the height of the back, to the placing of the lights and the bumpers, to the lights being smidgen too small.

 

[eran0004]

Re: Dino, it seems to me that the car was modelled based on blueprints. Those are usually not very accurate, and since they only provide limited information about the shapes of a car it leaves a lot of guesstimating to the 3d artist.

It could be the result of poor source material, or outsourcing, or a hurried schedule, or an inexperienced car modeller.

Or a combination of the above.

 

[Castrol96]

Re: Dino, it seems to me that the car was modelled based on blueprints. Those are usually not very accurate, and since they only provide limited information about the shapes of a car it leaves a lot of guesstimating to the 3d artist.

It could be the result of poor source material, or outsourcing, or a hurried schedule, or an inexperienced car modeller.

Or a combination of the above.

Definitely not from Laser Scanned data.

You can see the bumper parts look extruded rather than a little curved.

This is the reason why Kaz was considering outsourcing and spoke of 'quality' when he was questioned.

 

[ImaRobot]

Definitely not from Laser Scanned data.

You can see the bumper parts look extruded rather than a little curved.

This is the reason why Kaz was considering outsourcing and spoke of 'quality' when he was questioned.

Outsourcing can produce quality work, it depends on your prerequisites. The problem being is that it's mostly done to cut down on time.

In my opinion, there's no reason to think that a skilled individual in that field will be working at PD, and PD only.

 

[Castrol96]

Outsourcing can produce quality work, it depends on your prerequisites. The problem being is that it's mostly done to cut down on time.

In my opinion, there's no reason to think that a skilled individual in that field will be working at PD, and PD only.

Would have been better off if the GT6 model was simply used.

Seems like a waste of time to me getting this car re-modelled.

 

[queleuleu]

@emula Could you do some comparison shots between ray tracing and without it please?
From direct feed :

 

[Mateusz90]

all the open top cars imported from GT5 / GT6 (Ferrari 330 P4, Jaguar XJ13, BMW Z8) don't use tessellation . It can't be a coincidence but there must be some technical limitation

Hopefully on PS5 we will see these models in super premium quality.

Z8 looks a bit like from PS3 era, but yeah, I can understand that Ps4 has its limits (6 years old console)

 

[ScottPuss20]

The use of tessellation on the Shelby Cobra is very limited compared to the full super premium cars

However, about the Ferrari Dino, the height of the back is definitely correct now, they only forgot to fix the tail lights size that is too small (like in GT6)

Now you're just fudging the evidence to suit your viewpoint.

 

[bdj57]

Sometimes there is an error at work, PD is no exception. We are all humans anyway we do mistakes. Most of us who knows PD attention to detail demands perfection I agree but it can't be all of them going smooth and nicely.

By the way, I still appreciate PD effort to show polished car models from previous games and hopefully those issues will be fixed. 👍

 

[emula]

Now you're just fudging the evidence to suit your viewpoint.

what are you talking about? without my comparisons you would not even know the differences and now you say that I'm just fudging the evidence.... LOL

 

[ImaRobot]

what are you talking about? without my comparisons you would not even know the differences and now you say that I'm just fudging the evidence.... LOL

First you said that it's accurate, now you're saying that there is differences. Glad we're all on the same page now.

Maybe not fudging, but you're trying extremely hard to act like it's correct, when it's glaringly obvious that there's, at least, something wrong with it. I'm not sure how you can't notice it right away, yet you can notice the most minute, incredibly hard to notice, discrepancies with other games. It almost makes it seem intentional. I mean come on, you can pinpoint direct area's of other games errors with full detail, and all you're measurements, but you can't even accurately measure the rears from the same spot on the same car on GTS?

I'm just wondering why it's so hard for you to just acknowledge it for this game, if you can do more than that for others. Mistakes happen, it's not the end of the world so I don't see a reason to even do that. Other than not wanting to go back on all the things you've criticized about others in the past.

 

[sparkytooth]

Isn't that a 206 GT he posted? That rear is certainly very different from the 246GT.