GTS vs GT6 - Cars comparison

[Satomiblood]

It was a sarcasm guys

I figured, hence my guess on it being trolling.

 

[SimTourist]

You’re underestimating the sheer leap in power the PS5 will have. It’s expected to be a much bigger jump as from PS3 to PS4. Even now the PS4 Pro could probably run GTS in native 4K if you where prepared to cut back on the number of cars, sacrifice framerate etc.

Nah, the biggest improvement will be in the storage speed with SSD and CPU speed, the GPU will be a modest improvement over Xbox One X, at best double the performance, in general we're approaching the physical limits of silicon, and diminishing returns is a thing. The obvious improvements for nextgen will be shorter loading times, higher framerates and more props in the scene, everything else such as AI or physics will remain the exact same.

 

[Griffith500]

Nah, the biggest improvement will be in the storage speed with SSD and CPU speed, the GPU will be a modest improvement over Xbox One X, at best double the performance, in general we're approaching the physical limits of silicon, and diminishing returns is a thing. The obvious improvements for nextgen will be shorter loading times, higher framerates and more props in the scene, everything else such as AI or physics will remain the exact same.

There's a significant bump in CPU power:

"Jaguar" 2x4 core @ 1.6 GHz (2.13 GHz in Pro)
"Zen2" ~8 core @ ~ 3 GHz (3 generations newer!)

Spoiler: off-topic detail

Here's an illustration of the difference in the generations:

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-A4-5000-APU-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-3700U/m5321vsm765724

Note that the A4 5000 is only 1.5 GHz quad core (A6 5200 is 2 GHz, closer to the Pro), so bear that in mind particularly in the multi-core scores (not that the PS4 uses all 8 cores in-game, but still). As I said, it's just an indication of the step change in CPU performance available this coming gen; +200% is three times as fast as the Pro. Clearly this ignores any extra hardware the consoles have spec'ed, but it's ballpark.


So, sure, either you put more props in the scene, or you put that grunt to work elsewhere. Or a mix of both. Whilst the core count probably hasn't increased in practice, the instructions per cycle combined with higher clock speeds gives a massive improvement, and the extra floating point performance in particular is excellent. So there will be a lot of parallel power in the CPU for things like sound (esp. VR), or the progressive meshes seen on PS3. Devs have even been talking about physics, and the possibility of moving away from "simple" rigid body models...

 

[Vspectra]

Yea, that CPU bump will actually allow for much better physics calculations and AI, across all genre of games.

 

[markell007]

I think most of the cars/tracks look fine actually, what i think that really needs to be improved is the AO. This is really noticeable when the camera exposure kicks in, making things look really flat in my opinion at least. Also to go a bit off-topic Nurburgring 24 night setting looks very wrong since launch, some objects are illuminated when there’s no light source hitting it, plus the scenery is way too bright for night time i think

 

[SimTourist]

There's a significant bump in CPU power:

"Jaguar" 2x4 core @ 1.6 GHz (2.13 GHz in Pro)
"Zen2" ~8 core @ ~ 3 GHz (3 generations newer!)

Spoiler: off-topic detail

Here's an illustration of the difference in the generations:

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/AMD-A4-5000-APU-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-3700U/m5321vsm765724

Note that the A4 5000 is only 1.5 GHz quad core (A6 5200 is 2 GHz, closer to the Pro), so bear that in mind particularly in the multi-core scores (not that the PS4 uses all 8 cores in-game, but still). As I said, it's just an indication of the step change in CPU performance available this coming gen; +200% is three times as fast as the Pro. Clearly this ignores any extra hardware the consoles have spec'ed, but it's ballpark.


So, sure, either you put more props in the scene, or you put that grunt to work elsewhere. Or a mix of both. Whilst the core count probably hasn't increased in practice, the instructions per cycle combined with higher clock speeds gives a massive improvement, and the extra floating point performance in particular is excellent. So there will be a lot of parallel power in the CPU for things like sound (esp. VR), or the progressive meshes seen on PS3. Devs have even been talking about physics, and the possibility of moving away from "simple" rigid body models...

It all sounds good in benchmarks, but the CELL processor for example was something like 45 times more powerful than PS2's, so a 3x boost after 7 years and what was essentially an outdated netbook CPU even at launch isn't that impressive, but it's nice to have. Despite all the improvements most games today fail to match the AI seen in Halo CE from 2001 running on a Pentium 3, and aside from Rockstar everyone uses the same old Havok ragdolls for humans that are exactly the same as seen in Flatout 2 and Max Payne 2 back on PS2 almost 2 decades ago. So yeah I just don't see AI or physics suddenly becoming a priority if it hasn't been in the last 20 years.
This is what I had in my PC back in 2011 and it's gonna beat PS5 without any overclocking.
https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-2500K-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-3700U/619vsm765724

 

[emula]

RUF BTR '86 VS Porsche 911 Turbo (930) '81

https://granturismo.forumfree.it/?t=76861390

RUF CTR Yellow Bird '87 VS Porsche 911 Turbo (930) '81

https://granturismo.forumfree.it/?t=76861591

 

[AlanH49]

Nah, the biggest improvement will be in the storage speed with SSD and CPU speed, the GPU will be a modest improvement over Xbox One X, at best double the performance, in general we're approaching the physical limits of silicon, and diminishing returns is a thing. The obvious improvements for nextgen will be shorter loading times, higher framerates and more props in the scene, everything else such as AI or physics will remain the exact same.

You need to factor in all current gen games are built for regular PS4 & XB1. Mid-gen upgrades are there to iron out performance dips and up resolution. That’s an approx baseline jump from 2.0TF to 10TF. The CPU side will be a much bigger leap and help with more detailed physics, AI, larger grids etc.

 

[SimTourist]

You need to factor in all current gen games are built for regular PS4 & XB1. Mid-gen upgrades are there to iron out performance dips and up resolution. That’s an approx baseline jump from 2.0TF to 10TF. The CPU side will be a much bigger leap and help with more detailed physics, AI, larger grids etc.

The jump to 4k will eat 8TF out of those 10 give or take.

 

[Griffith500]

It all sounds good in benchmarks, but the CELL processor for example was something like 45 times more powerful than PS2's, so a 3x boost after 7 years and what was essentially an outdated netbook CPU even at launch isn't that impressive, but it's nice to have. Despite all the improvements most games today fail to match the AI seen in Halo CE from 2001 running on a Pentium 3, and aside from Rockstar everyone uses the same old Havok ragdolls for humans that are exactly the same as seen in Flatout 2 and Max Payne 2 back on PS2 almost 2 decades ago. So yeah I just don't see AI or physics suddenly becoming a priority if it hasn't been in the last 20 years.
This is what I had in my PC back in 2011 and it's gonna beat PS5 without any overclocking.
https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-2500K-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-3700U/619vsm765724

Features wise, it all depends on the developer / publisher. It'll happen in the right places, so keep your eyes open, make the appropriate noises and big business will follow suit

The Cell was a very odd beast in many ways and almost no-one got the best out of it; despite that, the jump from PS3 to PS4 wasn't that great (as it was from PS2 to PS3, say).

This time, the architecture is very much similar if not practically the same for most devs' needs, so it's a straight improvement with basically no effort.

I think that 2500K bench is heavily skewed by OC results, and the 3700U is actually a Zen+ not Zen2, so possibly not wholly representative of what will come. Think underclocked 3700X.

 

[SimTourist]

Features wise, it all depends on the developer / publisher. It'll happen in the right places, so keep your eyes open, make the appropriate noises and big business will follow suit

Yeah one thing I'm 100% confident about is PS5 will be able to render a lot more lootboxes on screen.

I think that 2500K bench is heavily skewed by OC results, and the 3700U is actually a Zen+ not Zen2, so possibly not wholly representative of what will come. Think underclocked 3700X.

The point was that a 10 year old mid-range CPU is able to keep up with a 2020 console CPU, whereas before a processor would get obsolete in under 18 months.

 

[DavidMonoy97]

RUF BTR '86 VS Porsche 911 Turbo (930) '81

https://granturismo.forumfree.it/?t=76861390

RUF CTR Yellow Bird '87 VS Porsche 911 Turbo (930) '81

https://granturismo.forumfree.it/?t=76861591

Thank you!

 

[AlanH49]

The jump to 4k will eat 8TF out of those 10 give or take.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if GTS could run at Native 4K 80% of the time on PS4 Pro. But they can’t afford even a hint of a performance drop so run Checkerboard 4K.

Current machines where a major compromise on the GPU & CPU front. We’re now looking at genuine generational leaps in all of the major components. Together with the SSD and all that good stuff. Consoles always perform better than the sum of their parts. But at last the major bottlenecks are being addressed.

 

[VXR]

Fascinating how they remodelled the Roadster TC's interior and altered the rear valance to reposition the tow eye and add a light.

 

[Griffith500]

...
The point was that a 10 year old mid-range CPU is able to keep up with a 2020 console CPU, whereas before a processor would get obsolete in under 18 months.

It's actually not, that was my mistake. The U variant is not representative of the architecture that will be in the console. In full force, the new arch is more akin to an i7 9700K, a very different proposition.

The state of CPU development was in part due to long console cycles, and lack of competition. Glad AMD has closed the gap again on both fronts.
https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-2500K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-9700K/619vs4030

 

[SimTourist]

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if GTS could run at Native 4K 80% of the time on PS4 Pro. But they can’t afford even a hint of a performance drop so run Checkerboard 4K.

No, PS4Pro has double the shading capability, that simply isn't enough to shade 4 times the pixels on screen, the memory badwidth and size isn't enough either. It could do it with significantly worse visuals than base PS4, but not at the same quality.

Consoles always perform better than the sum of their parts. But at last the major bottlenecks are being addressed.

That was true when consoles had custom hardware, these days a PC with similar specs gives a similar or better performance.

 

[Griffith500]

That PC is not even remotely comparable to a PS4 Pro, except (at the time) on price. It has more than twice the CPU performance and a GPU that draws twice as much electrical power despite having virtually the same silicon. AMD have been so far behind the curve that the CPU in the PS4 Pro is only half as fast as my old (2007) Harpertown Xeon!!

Experts state that coding "closer to the metal" (thinning out the stack of driver / abstraction layers - which happens by default on "custom hardware") makes consoles faster on the same hardware - this is a simple fact of sacrificing versatility (that a PC is expected to have) for sheer speed.



Seriously, purely from the perspective of these car models even, it'll be the CPU power that impresses the most since it will allow many more polygons to be thrown at the GPU (necessary given the fixed-function tessellation hardware in place of the Cell), and some of these LoD issues we still see in GT Sport will disappear. That capability will become especially important at higher resolutions. Even lighting might benefit.

 

[Unknown?]

Nah, the biggest improvement will be in the storage speed with SSD and CPU speed, the GPU will be a modest improvement over Xbox One X, at best double the performance, in general we're approaching the physical limits of silicon, and diminishing returns is a thing. The obvious improvements for nextgen will be shorter loading times, higher framerates and more props in the scene, everything else such as AI or physics will remain the exact same.

If rumors are true that are floating around the web it’s a 12.9 TF GPU which is more than double the One X not to mention other aspects besides that which are better.

 

[SimTourist]

If rumors are true that are floating around the web it’s a 12.9 TF GPU which is more than double the One X not to mention other aspects besides that which are better.

For a nice price of $799 with new trump tariffs.

 

[GTV0819]

RUF BTR '86 VS Porsche 911 Turbo (930) '81

https://granturismo.forumfree.it/?t=76861390

RUF CTR Yellow Bird '87 VS Porsche 911 Turbo (930) '81

https://granturismo.forumfree.it/?t=76861591

So RUF CTR '87 only has a sole mirror for the driver's side as opposed to the BTR '86 which has side mirrors for both sides.

 

[IXON009]

What will PS5 graphics look like?

OMG I can't imagine I still remember when I said GT6 will be the most realistic thing in racing game future and here we go I only can say OMFG right now

 

[ARTAsean]

For a nice price of $799 with new trump tariffs.

Tariffs against China are a win for the US from a tech / economic standpoint.

A $799 PS5 due to tariffs on China could mean a $300 Playstation 6 once we start manufacturing them stateside.

FYI, we are doing literally the exact same thing with the oil industry right now, and you don’t even hear about it - because it’s bipartisan. Of course you’d know this if you did a modicum of research instead of letting the media convince you that Orange Man Bad in literally every scenario.

 

[Vspectra]

Tariffs against China are a win for the US from a tech / economic standpoint.

A $799 PS5 due to tariffs on China could mean a $300 Playstation 6 once we start manufacturing them stateside.

FYI, we are doing literally the exact same thing with the oil industry right now, and you don’t even hear about it - because it’s bipartisan. Of course you’d know this if you did a modicum of research instead of letting the media convince you that Orange Man Bad in literally every scenario.

That doesn't make any sense. If Sony and MS could bring down the price by simply "manufacturing them stateside", they would have done it already for PS4 or XBO or the next-gen consoles. Outsourcing parts to a country that has workers who work for cheaper with abundant readily available materials and resources (China produces 5 times more rare earth materials than any other top 10 producers combined) in an already established plant as the supply chain will always have lower production costs. It is why MS and Sony started outsourcing to China in the first place instead of relying on domestic labs, which they shut down literally because production costs was too costly and unsustainable. Trump isn't some genius businessman, he's an idiot sociopath who reacts on impulse and ego.

 

[SimTourist]

A $799 PS5 due to tariffs on China could mean a $300 Playstation 6 once we start manufacturing them stateside.

Yeah, no, that's simply not possible. No one is gonna move production to the US of all places, another asian country with cheap labor maybe. Imagine now they are paying chinese workers something like 10 cents per hour, in US you would pay at least $15 per hour, like literally the whole point of manufacturing products in china is extremely cheap labour and exploitation of child workers.

 

[SimTourist]

OMG I can't imagine I still remember when I said GT6 will be the most realistic thing in racing game future and here we go I only can say OMFG right now

I remember seeing a demo unit with GT5 Prologue back in like 2008 and thinking damn this is the most realistic graphics I've ever seen.

 

[xxy98cn]

Tariffs against China are a win for the US from a tech / economic standpoint.

A $799 PS5 due to tariffs on China could mean a $300 Playstation 6 once we start manufacturing them stateside.

FYI, we are doing literally the exact same thing with the oil industry right now, and you don’t even hear about it - because it’s bipartisan. Of course you’d know this if you did a modicum of research instead of letting the media convince you that Orange Man Bad in literally every scenario.

It makes no sense. Christmas 2020 is one month after US election, when the new POTUS, possibly Trump, can put his campaign promise aside and do something else. Also a ~$800 console is way too mcuh exaggerate. Don't troll, OK?

Yeah, no, that's simply not possible. No one is gonna move production to the US of all places, another asian country with cheap labor maybe. Imagine now they are paying chinese workers something like 10 cents per hour, in US you would pay at least $15 per hour, like literally the whole point of manufacturing products in china is extremely cheap labour and exploitation of child workers.

And it takes years to build up a whole manufacture pipeline. We couldn't possibly see any 9th Gen console that has a US label.

Also I simply can't imagine what GT would look like on PS5, techniques today already shocks me, like ray tracing. PD surely has some more magic in their toolbox.

 

[BloodyThunderX]

Honda Civic Type R (EK) '98

https://granturismo.forumfree.it/?t=76859420

Honda Civic Type R (EK) '97 VS Honda Civic Type R (EK) '98

https://granturismo.forumfree.it/?t=76857890

If I can just say, I'm so happy to see them having brought the facelifted model of the EK over the '97. I always felt the '98 looked better.

 

[redhed17]

Tariffs against China are a win for the US from a tech / economic standpoint.

A $799 PS5 due to tariffs on China could mean a $300 Playstation 6 once we start manufacturing them stateside.

That's a good one. The comedy stylings of ARTAsean everybody!

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Seeing this thread makes me laugh at all that GTP's drama regarding the standard cars when people were saying that premium models from GT5/GT6 were future proof.

 

[JoaoSilva]

Let's not forget the people that wanted standard cars in GT Sport.