[GUIDE] So you want to drive without ABS... (please read OP)

[Morphisor]

Personally I drive with controller only, having the brake set to the circle button.
I find that a balance of 3/1 or 2/0 will make it very doable to drive without ABS with a controller.
You can often smash the brakes at first, but you will still be punished for prolonged maximum braking.
It's not a lot, but there's still way more room for variable input than with ABS on: the most important feature of turning ABS off in my opinion is to be able to twitch the rear end into a corner by touching the brakes.

 

[Woodski_427]

I switched brake and gas to the triggers, and gears to the face buttons - didn't take long to get used to. The triggers give extra travel, but aren't perfect of course. I can now use up to 6 on the front BB in race/heavy cars, whereas I had with 3 or 4 when I started.

 

[amar212]

I switched brake and gas to the triggers, and gears to the face buttons - didn't take long to get used to.

Now all you have to do is switch accel/brake to right stick and gears to L1/R1 (shorter travel, direct input) and you're good to go

The best way to control accel/braking is by right thumbstick. It really does not take much to get used to, especially if you're used to steer by left thumbstick.

Wish you best 👍

 

[NCRthree]

I did a little test last night to compare lap times, brake points etc. Picked a bone stock Silvia RM on SH tires Tsukuba-offline practice mode. Ran 6/4 ABS1 and 3/1, 4/1 ABS 0. Tire wear on, real grip. All other aids off.

Barely had driven the car before. Started with ABS 0 and found it pretty neutral on entry and exit. Easy to kick out the rear, fun ride! Got it so both front and rear locked up but together.

Then switched to ABS 1. Now we've got got understeer, uggh. The fun was gone. No way I could lock up the tires either. Beat my ABS0 ghost after changing up my lines to account for the plowing. Took several laps and got ahead by over a second. I couldn't flick the car around like before though. Lifting off throttle to point the car was not as effective either. Reminded me of driving with TC on almost. The Silvia just felt numb. Pretty much a limp handshake of a ride.

Switched back to ABS0 and after some laps, was able to match my fast ABS1 time but not as consistently. Was within a tenth or less though. Brake points stayed very close. I could go just as deep without ABS but that gained no time so it was pointless. Had to be alert and keep a bit of throttle to not spin for sure. Turn in and exit were just so much more involving, steering feel was increased and trail braking could be modulated.

Now I wasn't seeking faster lap times in shedding ABS but a more involving driving experience. But with just 45 minutes total, my times were pretty dead even.

 

[FsharpAsharp]

Now all you have to do is switch accel/brake to right stick and gears to L1/R1 (shorter travel, direct input) and you're good to go

The best way to control accel/braking is by right thumbstick. It really does not take much to get used to, especially if you're used to steer by left thumbstick.

Wish you best 👍

Good thinking, but this setup has one major drawback: you can't do left foot braking whilst using the analog stick as throttle/brake control. Well, you could add secondary brake under L2 button but that would be difficult to adjust to.

Personally, I like the usual PS3 racing game setup: L2/R2 for the brake and throttle, X for shifting up and square for reducing gears.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

I did a little test last night to compare lap times, brake points etc. Picked a bone stock Silvia RM on SH tires Tsukuba-offline practice mode. Ran 6/4 ABS1 and 3/1, 4/1 ABS 0. Tire wear on, real grip. All other aids off.

Barely had driven the car before. Started with ABS 0 and found it pretty neutral on entry and exit. Easy to kick out the rear, fun ride! Got it so both front and rear locked up but together.

Then switched to ABS 1. Now we've got got understeer, uggh. The fun was gone. No way I could lock up the tires either. Beat my ABS0 ghost after changing up my lines to account for the plowing. Took several laps and got ahead by over a second. I couldn't flick the car around like before though. Lifting off throttle to point the car was not as effective either. Reminded me of driving with TC on almost. The Silvia just felt numb. Pretty much a limp handshake of a ride.

Switched back to ABS0 and after some laps, was able to match my fast ABS1 time but not as consistently. Was within a tenth or less though. Brake points stayed very close. I could go just as deep without ABS but that gained no time so it was pointless. Had to be alert and keep a bit of throttle to not spin for sure. Turn in and exit were just so much more involving, steering feel was increased and trail braking could be modulated.

Now I wasn't seeking faster lap times in shedding ABS but a more involving driving experience. But with just 45 minutes total, my times were pretty dead even.

👍

Pretty much my findings too.

However you might have been more consistent and possibly faster if you set the car so the front locks first.

 

[dixonbaps]

I took the plunge to do ABS 0 today and boy, am I glad I did. For me it's easy, if not, easier than with ABS on. The tyres seem to have a hell of a lot more grip. I read through this thread and initially set all my brakes to 3/1. Give the car a few corners to test on lock up and adjust accordingly.

I use a DS3 with brakes and throttle set on the L/R 2 buttons. This way it gives me better control over throttle and brakes. I use automatic gear box as not to get confused with too many controller buttons (I think I need a wheel set-up ).

The first car I tried was a brand spanking new Honda Weider HSV-010 and took it bone stock to Tsukuba. Just adjusted the BB to 3/1 and away I went. My first few laps was approx 55 secs. I can't believe how easy that car is to drive and a pleasure with the new improved sounds.👍

My next car was and Enzo Ferrari . So off to the Ferrari dealer to get a new one for the La Festa Cavallino A-Spec event. Set the BB to 3/1 and came second in that race but it was fun. I tweaked the BB until I had 1/0 balance. The Enzo locks up very easy in the front if the front bias is too high. Won that event very easily also .

All in all for me GT5 has just become a very different game now (for the better 👍) without the ABS on. I don't think I'll ever use it again. I drove with all aids off accept with ABS set at 1 before, but now all I have on is the driving line, nothing else. I may even start a new game now I'm having so much refreshed fun. GT5 for me was getting a bit stale around the edges but without the ABS it's a whole new game 👍.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Good to hear Dixon:tup: I wish everyone would give it a spin with such a positive attitude

 

[Turtle]

I started driving without ABS almost exclusively about a month and a half ago. For me, it wasn't a hard transition. I think it may be because before I took a break, I was trying something called 'threshold braking', which is, if I understand correctly, braking to the point right before ABS begins to step in. Because of this, when I finally turned ABS off, it was natural.

I have found that when I drive without ABS, I'm slightly slower, but more consistent, and I'm not really sure why that is.

I hope that more people at least try driving without ABS because it changes the handling and braking characteristics of nearly every car, sometimes a large change, sometimes small, and it makes things a little more interesting.

Anyway, that's just my opinion/random blabbering. Feel free to correct me, I'm sure I made a mistake somewhere in there.

~Turtle

​

 

[opelman]

I use abs=0 and manual gear box. I think that manual box you get better control for car than with automatic gear box. I use Ds3 and sticks for steering and throttle control.

 

[Raitziger]

I have found that when I drive without ABS, I'm slightly slower, but more consistent, and I'm not really sure why that is.

Car dynamics can be felt better with ABS 0. You also have think more about driving lines etc.

 

[Jaywalker]

Way to go, dixonbaps! 👍 I honestly believe that too much of a deal is made of ABS 0. It's really not that hard to adjust to & to me, it feels much better than with ABS on 1. (I use a DFGT)

 

[phil_75]

Way to go, dixonbaps! 👍 I honestly believe that too much of a deal is made of ABS 0. It's really not that hard to adjust to & to me, it feels much better than with ABS on 1. (I use a DFGT)

But its much more unrealistic as 95% of all road and race cars use ABS in real life!

 

[dixonbaps]

Way to go, dixonbaps! 👍 I honestly believe that too much of a deal is made of ABS 0. It's really not that hard to adjust to & to me, it feels much better than with ABS on 1. (I use a DFGT)

Thankyou. To me, the game comes alive with ABS0. The AI seem to be more competitive, and you get the feeling of total control of the car that you're driving. Lap times will be slower at first but with practice you do get faster. As I said earlier, I drove a stock Enzo on stock SH tyres and couldn't believe how easier it was to drive with no aids at all. Try driving it stock with ABS1 and the thing spins all over the place like you trying to drag race on ice .

I think that's one of the main problems with ABS 1, you're never in full control of your car. A bit like driving a train, so the game becomes a little tedious very soon and then the haters just moan away.

To tell you the truth. I wish I'd discovered to race in GT5 with ABS0 way before now. Before GT5 I used to race the old f1 games, and to race those without any kind of aids at all was just impossible for me. That probably put me off turning off ABS in GT5.

My advice to anyone wishing to take the plunge. Do it, it's a lot easier than you think. But if it don't work for you then just switch it back on. IMO the game is like a brand new GT5, It really is.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

But its much more unrealistic as 95% of all road and race cars use ABS in real life!

Have you read Amar's post about ABS in GT5 ( page1 ) ? That alone should give you a good explanation as to why you can't compare real life car ABS to the one in GT5. It's not a substitute for what we have in real life, we may have to wait for GT6, maybe PD will have accurate ABS system incorporated and it should be classified as car parts, not aids, which can be removed or installed much like LSD.

 

[phil_75]

Have you read Amar's post about ABS in GT5 ( page1 ) ? That alone should give you a good explanation as to why you can't compare real life car ABS to the one in GT5. It's not a substitute for what we have in real life, we may have to wait for GT6, maybe PD will have accurate ABS system incorporated and it should be classified as car parts, not aids, which can be removed or installed much like LSD.

I know what you mean but since my wheel broke i use DS3 and its virtually impossible to use ABS 0 even at 2/1 because it just locks way too easily and plows nose first into everything but i like the extra "feel" you get thats somehow missing with it on, and on the other hand you have the unrealistic "slam brakes on as hard as possible" of ABS 1, although if you are racing you will be braking full strength a lot of the time so its hard to decide, i just wish there was a middle ground!

 

[Johnnypenso]

But its much more unrealistic as 95% of all road and race cars use ABS in real life!

Good point but I don't think it's about realism Phil, more about making the game come alive. I admit I hated ABS=0 at first but after a couple of attempts it just seemed to make driving and the game in general so much more immersive. I could drive many cars around mindlessly for hours with ABS but remove ABS from those same cars and you are on your toes all the time.

You're definitely right about a middle ground. Without ABS the brakes in GT5 are ridiculously strong. We should have a completely different, much finer adjustability without ABS and it should be harder to lock up. In fact, lower brake settings should never lock up except at a near standstill and we should be able to fine tune the brakes to adjust the lock up point and allow for much greater pedal travel than we now have. I think that's what frustrates people most is the lack of brake tuning options available without ABS and the inability to fine tune to suit personal preferences.

 

[dixonbaps]

I know what you mean but since my wheel broke i use DS3 and its virtually impossible to use ABS 0 even at 2/1 because it just locks way too easily and plows nose first into everything but i like the extra "feel" you get thats somehow missing with it on, and on the other hand you have the unrealistic "slam brakes on as hard as possible" of ABS 1, although if you are racing you will be braking full strength a lot of the time so its hard to decide, i just wish there was a middle ground!

I use a DS3 also. I have set my L/R 2 buttons as throttle and brake. At least that way it gives me a bit more control on brake/acceleration pressure.
The slam on brakes effect is something PD need to address. I also use automatic gearbox because I think too many buttons in use can get confusing on the DS3.

 

[DaxCobra]

G25/27 pedals aren't mushy! Standard Fanatec pedals are very light but not as light as the DFGT pedals.

Good guide though.

 

[Johnnypenso]

G25/27 pedals aren't mushy! Standard Fanatec pedals are very light but not as light as the DFGT pedals.

Good guide though.

My gf once dropped a piece of floss on my DFGT pedals and I spun out...

 

[Anathema]

I use a DS3 with brakes and throttle set on the L/R 2 buttons. This way it gives me better control over throttle and brakes. I use automatic gear box as not to get confused with too many controller buttons (I think I need a wheel set-up ).

Gotta try this, might finally have a use for the shoulder buttons in racing. Trying to lessen the abuse of my X and Square buttons.

 

[FordMKIVJ5]

G25/27 pedals aren't mushy! Standard Fanatec pedals are very light but not as light as the DFGT pedals.

Good guide though.

I've never thought the DFGT ones were that bad to be honest.

And thanks. 👍

 

[NCRthree]

I know what you mean but since my wheel broke i use DS3 and its virtually impossible to use ABS 0 even at 2/1 because it just locks way too easily and plows nose first into everything but i like the extra "feel" you get thats somehow missing with it on, and on the other hand you have the unrealistic "slam brakes on as hard as possible" of ABS 1, although if you are racing you will be braking full strength a lot of the time so its hard to decide, i just wish there was a middle ground!

I've gone back and forth on what is more "real" a LOT with this. Especially because PD tagged the aid ABS. So I figured that it performed like ABS does in a real car. A similar aid to TC and it's real life counterpart. Now I've become convinced that ABS off is and seems more real than having it on. Doing some back to back testing for my own satisfaction has lead me to accept that opinion.

For the last several months I've gotten tired of tuning cars to fit my skills (or lack of) and just wanting to get the most realistic driving experience within GT5's parameters. No goal of being faster but just going by the leap of faith that PD has modeled the stock cars performance reasonably accurate. So using the car w/o any mods and default tires. I have to use something for a base line.

Now, I've got really, really limited Autocross and Track Day experience in a 02 WRX, 03 S2000 and a 08 EVO. Mainly at VIR's courses and a flat tarmac for Autocross. I've experienced enough lift off oversteer at speeds MUCH lower than I expected on track. 15-35 mph type speeds. Not driving in full anger either like in GT5. ABS with all cars except for the S. So that limited experience has pretty well convinced me that ABS in GT5 does a LOT more than real life ABS. When I've driven without it, I get that "Oh crap! I'm about to spin!" feeling I've experienced. That's what was missing with ABS on.

My perception of speed in GT5 still errs on the side of slower than reality. Cockpit cam puts the GT5 world into slow motion more so. I think that's what makes some folks think ABS 0 seem too inaccurate compared to real driving-at least I did initially. Plus that instant lock up without proper BB and pedal adjustment throws the realism factor into instant doubt.

 

[phil_75]

The sense of speed is a probably the biggest problem in this you are right, it looks like 40mph when the speedo says 100mph and thats why its so hard to judge.

I have just been playing offline practice and i swear the front tyres lose grip and skid slightly and understeer wide on ABS 1 now since 2.09, something has definately changed.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The sense of speed is a probably the biggest problem in this you are right, it looks like 40mph when the speedo says 100mph and thats why its so hard to judge.

I have just been playing offline practice and i swear the front tyres lose grip and skid slightly and understeer wide on ABS 1 now since 2.09, something has definately changed.

I drove a few stock cars at lunch around 500 pp on SH tires online and noticed the same thing. But I was able to fix that issue with small adjustments to the brake balances. Could be just my imagination but it seems like even with ABS on, the cars respond more directly to changes in brake balance. I first drove them stock at 5/5 and a couple were ok, but a couple of others I switched to 4/5 or 3/5 and it did the trick.

 

[SavageEvil]

Good thing I read this thread a bit, ABS off takes some getting used to. One thing is you have to remain focused or you will bite it, this is the one thing that ABS saves you with, it makes braking while cornering and flat out flooring the brake pedal. I drive around with my '94 McLaren on Nurb F1 course, my time is 1:17 with ABS 1 and 1:19 ABS 0, the car itself is stock BB at 3/1 save for the aero kit that makes it look like the F1 LM(before the longtail). First thing I notice is when you have no ABS you have to be careful when you apply maximum braking pressure, because the wheels will lock at different rates and that is just in a straight line on relatively flat surface, but when you tackle corners and banking and bumps braking becomes even more involving than throttle.

PD really should have had two separate modes of play for this game, no holds barred mode when physics are at it's raw and unrelenting point, just disabling ABS turns this game into a monster as you can't lose focus for even a second. Yes I have a thing for driving super cars on normal tires, it's fun as Racing tires are complete madness. Kudos to those who use ABS on a controller it's a bit tough to read the movements but listening to the sounds of your tires will cue you to back off a touch on braking power, rolling tires stop faster than sliding ones.

*Note that tire grip indicator is kind of slow to show loss of grip, my car is already losing grip and the indicator is still blue, that needs to be worked on a bit as it makes having it useless and only to know that you have tire damage and when you are already sliding(no grip). Now I just have to find rooms where people don't like riding around in cars with more than SH compounds and I'll be set.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Great guide, Ford, this should have been done sooner, now if only this thread and the ABS 0 Community where are you ? thread can also be stickied. That would help a lot for people who are learning or starting ABS 0 driving

Agreed. And this latest updates is amazing to drive without ABS too.

 

[AERO_HDT]

I've been driving with ABS off for about 18 months now and I use a G27. It probably took me a few weeks to really figure it out, but in the end, I think it came down to two very important factors.

1: Brake Balance - The brake balancer was once an optional modification on past GT games. PD have set the balancer to 5/5 by default, just as cars have ABS set to ON by default. Switch the ABS off, switch the Brake Balancer off. I turn both front and rear down to zero...

Why?

Drive a car with pathetic brakes. Take for example, a 1970 Dodge Charger R/T and turn ABS off. Take it for a spin (literally), on Comfort Hard tyres and you'll figure out that the brake balance setting of 5/5 is way too high for a car with drum brakes. Turn it down to Zero and all of a sudden, the car feels a great deal more realistic. Braking distances are appropriately longer and there's a great deal more feel in the brake pedal. You can still get lockups, but it's no longer an issue of more than 25% brake pressure, it's more an issue as to how long you're on the brakes for.

The same applies to just about any car I've driven. 0/0 front and rear and you'll find that the pedals have much more feel and you can modulate the braking a great deal more. With almost any car in real life, you can generally apply the brakes very firmly at high speed without lockup, but you need to come off the brakes gradually as the speed washes away in order to avoid flat-spotting your tyres. A lot of novice drivers tend to apply brakes gently at high speed and then increase pressure (as panic builds that they're not slowing down enough), which leads to the inevitable spin (or armco barrier in some cases).

2: Heel and toe - Downshifting under braking will naturally lead to torque being fed through the rear wheels in all cars except FF machines. This torque shunt mismatches the speed of the road with the rear wheels and leads to the back tyres locking up. Heel and toeing is a crucial element to avoid this when racing without ABS.

That's my two bob anyways. My lap times are now just as quick, if not quicker than they ever were prior to ABS being used and having the aid switched off is my preferred method of driving. For those of you who are keen, definitely give it a try, you'll find a deeper layer to the physics engine that you never suspected was there before.



This is a great thread BTW, I have an old DFGT for use when mates come around and I love the idea of sponges under the pedals. Will definitely give them a try and see what the boys say!

Cheerskis

 

[GTP_CargoRatt]

I've been driving with ABS off for about 18 months now and I use a G27. It probably took me a few weeks to really figure it out, but in the end, I think it came down to two very important factors.

1: Brake Balance - The brake balancer was once an optional modification on past GT games. PD have set the balancer to 5/5 by default, just as cars have ABS set to ON by default. Switch the ABS off, switch the Brake Balancer off. I turn both front and rear down to zero...

Why?

Drive a car with pathetic brakes. Take for example, a 1970 Dodge Charger R/T and turn ABS off. Take it for a spin (literally), on Comfort Hard tyres and you'll figure out that the brake balance setting of 5/5 is way too high for a car with drum brakes. Turn it down to Zero and all of a sudden, the car feels a great deal more realistic. Braking distances are appropriately longer and there's a great deal more feel in the brake pedal. You can still get lockups, but it's no longer an issue of more than 25% brake pressure, it's more an issue as to how long you're on the brakes for.

The same applies to just about any car I've driven. 0/0 front and rear and you'll find that the pedals have much more feel and you can modulate the braking a great deal more. With almost any car in real life, you can generally apply the brakes very firmly at high speed without lockup, but you need to come off the brakes gradually as the speed washes away in order to avoid flat-spotting your tyres. A lot of novice drivers tend to apply brakes gently at high speed and then increase pressure (as panic builds that they're not slowing down enough), which leads to the inevitable spin (or armco barrier in some cases).

2: Heel and toe - Downshifting under braking will naturally lead to torque being fed through the rear wheels in all cars except FF machines. This torque shunt mismatches the speed of the road with the rear wheels and leads to the back tyres locking up. Heel and toeing is a crucial element to avoid this when racing without ABS.

That's my two bob anyways. My lap times are now just as quick, if not quicker than they ever were prior to ABS being used and having the aid switched off is my preferred method of driving. For those of you who are keen, definitely give it a try, you'll find a deeper layer to the physics engine that you never suspected was there before.



This is a great thread BTW, I have an old DFGT for use when mates come around and I love the idea of sponges under the pedals. Will definitely give them a try and see what the boys say!

Cheerskis

Great advice. Will definately have to give this a try to see if it further improves my non ABS driving.

 

[Morgoth_666]

0/0 brakes can be quite helpful for getting used to the feel of it, but ultimately does hinder the car from reaching it's potential level of performance. It really comes down to learning how to control the position/pressure of the pedal/stick/trigger/button. Once that becomes second-nature, running with higher pressure can allow you to be much more effective during the heavy braking before turning in.

Some prefer lower pressure for control(particularly while turning) and some prefer higher for more potential straight-line stopping ability, but going all the way to zero means spending an awful lot of extra time not on the gas. It feels touchy at first but as you become accustomed to it it's surprising how hard you actually can brake without locking. The hardest bit is learning just how much you need to back off as you turn the wheel even a little, since the GT series has much higher response from the brakes at tiny amounts of [pedal] pressure than most other games.

EDIT: Not attacking your way of driving or anything, I'm just thinking that if you've been doing it that long you might be surprised at how well you can control it now ith slightly higher brake pressure, particularly at the front.