Guns

[milefile]

Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
Man,... I could sworn this was a topic of opinion..... ya know,.. Which position on firearms is closest to your own?

And if I choose to reply in a non hostiile fashion concering what I viewed as an attack, to save this from turning into a "who's got a bigger schlong fest",... I'm the spammer?,.................. thats just wonderful.

..

Uh... but if someone disagrees they can tell you why. You still haven't told us what was funny, though.

 

[milefile]

Originally posted by Ghost C
I think I should point out there's a city somewhere in the south (I don't remember the name or the state) that requires all of it's residents to own at least one long arm, by law. I also point out that this city has a 0% crime rate, because really, are you going to break into a house when you know someone has a gun? I sure wouldn't (Not that I break into houses, but anyway...) want to do something that stupid.

They don't call'em peacemakers for nothin'.

 

[Talentless]

I've never been a big fan of statistical arguments, prefering moral ones in general, but here is a page purporting to lay out facts about guns and the control thereof. I cannot attest to its accuracy and objectivity.
http://www.justfacts.com/gun_control.htm

 

[Red Eye Racer]

Originally posted by Ghost C
I think I should point out there's a city somewhere in the south (I don't remember the name or the state) that requires all of it's residents to own at least one long arm, by law. I also point out that this city has a 0% crime rate, because really, are you going to break into a house when you know someone has a gun? I sure wouldn't (Not that I break into houses, but anyway...) want to do something that stupid.

And you just flamed me for not having the facts.

Here's a FACT for ya:

#1 = In one recent year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada and 5,285 in the U.S. How can we live with this waste of our most precious assets?

#2 = The rate of American gun violence has dramatically increased over the last fifteen years…and American children are paying the price. From 1984 to 1994, the firearm death rate for 15-19 year-olds increased 222%, while the non-firearm homicide death rate decreased almost 13%. Within five years, firearms are expected to overtake motor vehicle accidents as the leading cause of death among American children.


Now for my opinion side,... Ghost,.. your fighting for an idea that is killing more and more children every day,.. how does that make you feel?

 

[Ghost C]

Originally posted by neon_duke
Every time a cop draws his gun, there is a chance of injury to innocent bystanders. Yet they are trained to minimize that chance. So why not require similar training in order for civillians to get a concealed-carry permit?

That's the kind of laws we have in WV. There's no waiting period on long arms, and a 3-day waiting period on pistols. You have to be 18/21 to own each, respectively, and unless you have good reason (Like a bodyguard job, bartender, or if you care for someone who is disabled, etc), you have to be 21 to get a concealed carry permit, which requires a fairly extensive training program before they let you have it.

WV has, if nothing has changed, the loosest gun laws in the country, and there's not a whole lot of gun related violence here. If you compared the state to, say, LA (LA is bigger in population probably, but it's the best comparison I can think of) which has the strictest (I think) in the country, you'd see a MAJOR difference.

 

[Red Eye Racer]

BTW,.. I thought it was funny becuase he has the impression I dont know anything about guns.

I took hunters safety at 12 years old,... have fired my uncles Ruger .357 on countless occassions,...

I also OWN a Winchester 30/30, a Ruger .22 rifle, a 4-10 and an Ithica 20 gauge dear slayer.... your right, I dont know crap about guns

 

[Ghost C]

You could try facts that are up to date. I could say that I weigh 100 pounds, because I did 10 years ago, but that wouldn't make it truth today.

Also, by your own logic, when you fired that Ruger .357, you could've killed a child walking on the sidewalk. How does that make you feel, to know that you could've easily taken the life of a child? You're an evil man who deserves to be prosecuted for attempted murder.

 

[Talentless]

You cannot protect everyone, so the burden falls on the individual. No gun law can promises to free all persons from harm. And you are making a value of life judgement. Implying that a child's death can never be rationalised, even at the expense of others. In other words, if a woman is cornered in a back alley and brutally raped, a gun, which is inarguably capable of being used to stop her attacker, would be wrong for her to possess because if she misses a bystander might get hurt or killed. Yes, frankly, if a thousand kids are killed by accident or intentionally, it is acceptable in the name of self defense. It is the intent that matters.

 

[Ghost C]

Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
I also OWN a Winchester 30/30, a Ruger .22 rifle, a 4-10 and an Ithica 20 gauge dear slayer.... your right, I dont know crap about guns

It's .30-30, and .410, but you're right, you know about guns. Also, the .410 and 20 gauge can be sawed off, by your own logic, they should be melted down. Same with the Ruger 10/22, there are readily available kits to make it shorter, so it should be melted down.

 

[Red Eye Racer]

Originally posted by Ghost C


Also, by your own logic, when you fired that Ruger .357, you could've killed a child walking on the sidewalk. How does that make you feel, to know that you could've easily taken the life of a child? You're an evil man who deserves to be prosecuted for attempted murder.

I fired into a hill,... ajacent to woods,,... behind 100 acres of cover,.... in northern michigan where the poulation is about 50.... get a friggin clue.

 

[Ghost C]

Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
I fired into a hill,... ajacent to woods,,... behind 100 acres of cover,.... in northern michigan where the poulation is about 50.... get a friggin clue.

How do you know the .357 Magnum round didn't ricochet and kill a child? Because the .357 Magnum is one of the most capable, destructive rounds that handguns are chambered for. Outdone only by the .44 Magnum, .50 Action Express, and .500 Smith & Wesson Magnum.

I still think you should be tried for attempted murder, and you should too, by your own logic.

 

[Talentless]

Should we have a mock trial?

 

[Ghost C]

No, I was just trying to show him how flawed his logic was; Apparently he thinks that his point of view is correct coming from him, but when used toward him it makes no sense (It makes no sense coming from him either, but that's not the point).

 

[milefile]

Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
And you just flamed me for not having the facts.

Here's a FACT for ya:

#1 = In one recent year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada and 5,285 in the U.S. How can we live with this waste of our most precious assets?

#2 = The rate of American gun violence has dramatically increased over the last fifteen years…and American children are paying the price. From 1984 to 1994, the firearm death rate for 15-19 year-olds increased 222%, while the non-firearm homicide death rate decreased almost 13%. Within five years, firearms are expected to overtake motor vehicle accidents as the leading cause of death among American children.


Now for my opinion side,... Ghost,.. your fighting for an idea that is killing more and more children every day,.. how does that make you feel?

Those are nifty. Did you happen to notice that most of the countries with higher murder rates than the US have strict gun control laws? Northern Ireland for instance? You see you have to adjust for population differences. If Germany had as many people as the US their total would've been 3510. If Northern Ireland had as many people as the US their total would be astronomical, over 100,000.

 

[Talentless]

I was being facetious, mostly.

 

[Talentless]

http://www.michaelzwilliamson.com/rants/guncontrol.htm

 

[milefile]

 

[milefile]

Looks like when fact is confronted with fact things simmer down.

 

[Red Eye Racer]

I admit I have a radical opinion on this matter,.... and to be honest, could care less about what any of you think about my opinion.

I have logic on my side,.. people without guns, cant kill people with them (the guns, not other people with guns,.. I could see you manipulating that from a mile away.),.. plain and simple.

 

[Talentless]

One of my favorites.

"That we must get rid of guns because a deranged lunatic may go on a shooting spree at any time, but anyone who owns a gun out of fear of such a lunatic is paranoid."

 

[Red Eye Racer]

Originally posted by Ghost C
It's .30-30, and .410, but you're right, you know about guns. Also, the .410 and 20 gauge can be sawed off, by your own logic, they should be melted down. Same with the Ruger 10/22, there are readily available kits to make it shorter, so it should be melted down.

BTW,,.. I believe your logic is also flawed seeing how you think that someone needs to know the proper spelling of .30-.30 to know how to safely fire one.

 

[Talentless]

You have weak logic when tempered by reality. Has it occured to you that defense includes that from non gun using assailants? Is everyone equal without a gun? Alright, go randomly pick someone and beat them up. You should draw.

 

[Red Eye Racer]

Originally posted by Talentless
You have weak logic when tempered by reality. Has it occured to you that defense includes that from non gun using assailants? Is everyone equal without a gun? Alright, go randomly pick someone and beat them up. You should draw.

I think a persons chances of survival in one-on-one, hand-to-hand combat are about one million times greater than if the assailent had a gun,.... yes.

 

[milefile]

Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
I admit I have a radical opinion on this matter,.... and to be honest, could care less about what any of you think about my opinion.

I have logic on my side,.. people without guns, cant kill people with them (the guns, not other people with guns,.. I could see you manipulating that from a mile away.),.. plain and simple.

Are you going to reply to my facts about gun murder rates?

 

[Talentless]

Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
BTW,,.. I believe your logic is also flawed seeing how you think that someone needs to know the proper spelling of .30-.30 to know how to safely fire one.

I think you may be tired, as that makes no sense.

 

[Ghost C]

Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
I admit I have a radical opinion on this matter,.... and to be honest, could care less about what any of you think about my opinion.

I have logic on my side,.. people without guns, cant kill people with them (the guns, not other people with guns,.. I could see you manipulating that from a mile away.),.. plain and simple.

People without guns also cannot defend themselves against the criminals with guns. Because as I'm sure you're well aware of, a criminal willing to rob your house with a gun is willing to illegally own this gun.

There have been several attempted robberies on my house in the past five years, and 4 instances of vandalism and (I assume) attempted entry onto my house in the past two months. The attempted robberies remained attempted because of my guns, and if the vandalists who have vendetta against my windows comes in the house, that problem will be solved via him having a loaded firearm in his face until some form of law enforcement arrives to remove them from my presence.

Law abiding citizens with guns don't kill anyone. Criminals with guns do. Law abiding citizens with guns don't generally get along with criminals with guns. You see where this is going, I hope.

 

[Red Eye Racer]

Originally posted by milefile
Are you going to reply to my facts about gun murder rates?

Your self procalimed facts are nothing more than elaberated statistics,.... your hypothisizing,..

 

[Red Eye Racer]

Originally posted by Ghost C


Law abiding citizens with guns don't kill anyone. Criminals with guns do. Law abiding citizens with guns don't generally get along with criminals with guns. You see where this is going, I hope.

Until the criminal steals the law obiding citizens gun.......

 

[Talentless]

Originally posted by Red Eye Racer
I think a persons chances of survival in one-on-one, hand-to-hand combat are about one million times greater than if the assailent had a gun,.... yes.

So you think a victim has a better chance of surviving if his attacker is armed?

 

[Red Eye Racer]

Originally posted by Talentless
So you think a victim has a better chance of surving if his attacker is armed?

no,.. you misinterpreted that,.. please read it again.