Health Care for Everyone

[Sander 001]

"Man personally benefits from system which he undermines and denounces."


Sure I can say the tweet could use some better wording but I wouldn't want anybody thinking that I fixate on labels

 

[Danoff]

"Man personally benefits from system which he undermines and denounces."


Sure I can say the tweet could use some better wording but I wouldn't want anybody thinking that I fixate on labels

Please explain how it's public healthcare or socialism, for someone to be compensated for their job.

 

[ryzno]

"Man personally benefits from system which he undermines and denounces."


Sure I can say the tweet could use some better wording but I wouldn't want anybody thinking that I fixate on labels

Your post is still stupid and inaccurate. He's paid way more in taxes than you ever will make in your life. Y'all just fixated on $750 for what was it 2017? What the hell does that have to do with 2020?

 

[Joey D]

"Man personally benefits from system which he undermines and denounces."


Sure I can say the tweet could use some better wording but I wouldn't want anybody thinking that I fixate on labels

You already posted that.

 

[Famine]

Sure I can say the tweet could use some better wording but I wouldn't want anybody thinking that I fixate on labels

... says the chap who spammed an image four times because he thought it defined a label he was wrongly fixated on.

"Man personally benefits from system which he undermines and denounces."

That still isn't true. He benefitted from a government facility, not from your "socialized healthcare", because he's a government employee. And, for I think the fifth time, the USA does not have a hypothecated tax system, so his personal income tax contributions are not only not the sum total of what he paid (towards, you know, his own job), they're not actually relevant at all.

Again, this was pointed out to you right away, four days ago, and you claimed it was a strawman.

 

[Sander 001]

Please explain how it's public healthcare or socialism, for someone to be compensated for their job.

He certainly wouldn't be compensated as well if everybody evaded their taxes.

In fact, if everybody did pay their taxes properly, then perhaps government jobs would attract better talent.

 

[Famine]

He certainly wouldn't be compensated as well if everybody evaded their taxes.

Tax evasion is illegal. There is no evidence that Trump evaded taxes - though he certainly avoided... and once again for the crowd at the back there, in case they didn't hear it the first five times... personal income tax.

Lots of people avoid personal income tax. In fact I'd go as far to say everyone avoids as much personal income tax as possible. That is, after all, what accountants are for - helping you avoid as much personal income tax as you can, to pay your minimum required amounts. Several prominent, wealthy politicians who call for higher personal income tax are among them, paying literally the minimum amount they can while calling for these minimums to be raised for everyone - when they could simply pay more if they wanted to.

In fact, if everybody did pay their taxes properly, then perhaps government jobs would attract better talent.

The USA does not have a hypothecated tax system. Trump's personal income tax contributions aren't relevant.

Are you ignoring this on purpose, or do you not know what this means?

 

[Danoff]

He certainly wouldn't be compensated as well if everybody evaded their taxes.

In fact, if everybody did pay their taxes properly, then perhaps government jobs would attract better talent.

This is not responsive to my post, so I'm not sure why you quoted me. Also what @Famine said.

 

[Sander 001]

Hasn't been charged yet but



https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-ivanka-trump-tax-fraud_n_5f7292dfc5b6f622a0c375f9

 

[ryzno]

He certainly wouldn't be compensated as well if everybody evaded their taxes.

The government would do what they do best and just print more money...

In fact, if everybody did pay their taxes properly, then perhaps government jobs would attract better talent.

Government jobs are some of the highest paying jobs in our country with some of the best benefits.

Just think about it for a second.

 

[Famine]

Hasn't been charged yet but...

... until he is, and unless he's convicted of it, that's personal income tax avoidance, not evasion. And the former is legal and somewhere between widespread and total.

 

[ryzno]

Bro...

Tax evasion is illegal. There is no evidence that Trump evaded taxes - though he certainly avoided... and once again for the crowd at the back there, in case they didn't hear it the first five times... personal income tax.

Lots of people avoid personal income tax. In fact I'd go as far to say everyone avoids as much personal income tax as possible.

Hasn't been charged yet but



https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-ivanka-trump-tax-fraud_n_5f7292dfc5b6f622a0c375f9

I swear I've said it before, you have more patience than a saint @Famine .

 

[Blitz24]

The government would do what they do best and just print more money...

Government jobs are some of the highest paying jobs in our country with some of the best benefits.

Just think about it for a second.

I agree. Only drawback is having to sometimes move closer to DC (for the jobs I'm usually getting calls about), as housing costs there are very high.

 

[Danoff]

Government jobs are some of the highest paying jobs in our country with some of the best benefits.

Benefits, yes. Highest paying? I need a citation.

 

[DeathSmiles]

Government jobs are not the highest paying jobs (in America). Not even close.

 

[ryzno]

Benefits, yes. Highest paying? I need a citation.

Government jobs are not the highest paying jobs (in America). Not even close.

I said some of the highest paying jobs. I was talking about us normal people. Even though $150K a year for not even half a years work isn't something I'd stick my nose up at if that kinda work was my cup of tea.
I have a friend that works for the DOT making $25 an hour plus benefits running heavy machinery.
I can run that same machinery and only receive $15 an hour with no benefits.

I probably should word it better but I don't know what wording to use. I think y'all get my point though.

I'm happy where I am, not all the perks but definitely a lot less questions when applying.
I'm not complaining, just saying.

 

[Joey D]

Many government jobs do pay pretty well. My job is a state government job and it pays higher than any equivalent job in the area in the same field by a pretty wide margin. I know this isn't the case for every single government job though. And back when I worked road construction in college, I made more working for a municipality than pretty much anyone of my friends who took a standard summer job.

I'm not sure at the federal level, but the few jobs I've applied for with the US government were pretty solid in terms of their compensation.

 

[Danoff]

I said some of the highest paying jobs. I was talking about us normal people. Even though $150K a year for not even half a years work isn't something I'd stick my nose up at if that kinda work was my cup of tea.
I have a friend that works for the DOT making $25 an hour plus benefits running heavy machinery.
I can run that same machinery and only receive $15 an hour with no benefits.

I probably should word it better but I don't know what wording to use. I think y'all get my point though.

I'm happy where I am, not all the perks but definitely a lot less questions when applying.
I'm not complaining, just saying.

Many government jobs do pay pretty well. My job is a state government job and it pays higher than any equivalent job in the area in the same field by a pretty wide margin. I know this isn't the case for every single government job though. And back when I worked road construction in college, I made more working for a municipality than pretty much anyone of my friends who took a standard summer job.

I'm not sure at the federal level, but the few jobs I've applied for with the US government were pretty solid in terms of their compensation.

Sure I'm confident that you're both correct that some government jobs pay more than some equivalent private sector jobs. Police/Military is going to pay better than security guard for example. But one of the classic places for comparison is UPS vs. USPS (even similar acronyms). Where you'd see higher pay, fewer benefits, and lower stability for UPS than the corresponding USPS. So often the trade comes down to which you'd prefer, higher pay, or more stability.

When you get into some of the higher brackets, I'd imagine that someone like Trump (or Elon Musk) could make a lot more not being president than being president (provided that conflicts of interest are observed of course). Similarly, judges get paid less than top attorneys (which you need to be to be a judge). Similarly for defense/prosecuting criminal attorneys.

Anyway, I think it's fair to say that you can't make a sweeping generalization about whether government employment has higher pay.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

...(or Elon Musk) could make a lot more not being president than being president (provided that conflicts of interest are observed of course). Similarly, judges get paid less than top attorneys (which you need to be to be a judge). Similarly for defense/prosecuting criminal attorneys.

Anyway, I think it's fair to say that you can't make a sweeping generalization about whether government employment has higher pay.

ELECTION FRAUD!

 

[DeathSmiles]

The truth about Government jobs is on average, you get paid less than the private sector. What you usually get is more stability, in that they will usually get you some position doing something, somewhere. Whereas you are on your own if your private sector job is lost.

Like most careers, you can earn a lot within Government as you put in the time and move up (if where you are at has any place to go outside of the first place you are brought into), but by far, working in the private sector you will generally earn more money.

I work in IT. People who were doing the same work as me were almost always paid less. And, some of the leadership were paid less than me as well. I'm only 14/15 years into my career, and I make more than most people I work with doing the same job, but they are Civilians. Whereas I am a Contractor, demanding a certain amount of money to even hire me. I don't have that same leverage for Government. You usually have to take what they offer.

If we did recon, I would bet that most jobs where a comparable private sector job exist would pay more outside of Government than in.

EDIT: And obviously, that statement is inheritably false because of the fact the Government's job pool and what they can do and be is limited. CEOs, Execs, Business Owners, Real Estate, and beyond. All private sector.

 

[Imari]

There is no evidence that Trump evaded taxes...

There's some evidence that he may have, which is why he's been being audited for the last nine years.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/27/us/trump-taxes-takeaways.html

The $72.9 million refund has since become the subject of a long-running battle with the I.R.S.
When applying for the refund, he cited a giant financial loss that may be related to the failure of his Atlantic City casinos. Publicly, he also claimed that he had fully surrendered his stake in the casinos.

But the real story may be different from the one he told. Federal law holds that investors can claim a total loss on an investment, as Mr. Trump did, only if they receive nothing in return. Mr. Trump did appear to receive something in return: 5 percent of the new casino company that formed when he renounced his stake.

In 2011, the I.R.S. began an audit reviewing the legitimacy of the refund. Almost a decade later, the case remains unresolved, for unknown reasons, and could ultimately end up in federal court, where it could become a matter of public record.

To my knowledge that's the only instance where he's accused of something actually illegal, the rest seem to be the sort of stuff that any serious business gets up to; it feels shady to Joe Public who has to pay their 35% no questions asked but it's pretty standard fare. However there was at least enough evidence that it was deemed worthy of an audit, and this audit has not been deemed so lacking that it has been concluded. I think saying that there's no evidence of evasion may be a little strong at this point. There's evidence of something that professionals deem worthy of further investigation, whether that something eventually turns out to be criminal or just more creative accounting we can only wait and see.

 

[Famine]

However there was at least enough evidence that it was deemed worthy of an audit, and this audit has not been deemed so lacking that it has been concluded. I think saying that there's no evidence of evasion may be a little strong at this point.

An audit is what will determine if there's evidence of evasion. Until then it's only "suspicion of noncompliance".

 

[Sander 001]

“She had no decision in the selection process.”
So much for choice.

"patient had no way of knowing that her helicopter, which transported her between two in-network hospitals, did not have a contract with her health insurance plan,"
Worry free insurance.

"plan to ban these kinds of bills was popular and bipartisan, and it was backed by the White House. It fell apart at the 11th hour after private-equity firms, which own many of the medical providers that deliver surprise bills, poured millions into advertisements opposing the plan,"


There needs to be more representatives who reject big money: "The pledge states that Bernie Sanders will not take “contributions over $200 from the PACs, lobbyists, or executives of health insurance or pharmaceutical companies.”
That socialist leg sweeper.

 

[FuriousDemon]

This in-network ******** is fantastic. Love it.
I can go to a hospital to a doctor and they are in network but then somehow some part of the bill ends up being out of network. Are you ... kidding me? I had no control over which one of the nurses or specialists did the procedure. The medical system in US is completely broken. Ridiculous drug prices and 5k dollar bills for sitting in a room in a hospital by yourself only because it’s in a hospital.

 

[Danoff]

This in-network ******** is fantastic. Love it.
I can go to a hospital to a doctor and they are in network but then somehow some part of the bill ends up being out of network. Are you ... kidding me? I had no control over which one of the nurses or specialists did the procedure. The medical system in US is completely broken. Ridiculous drug prices and 5k dollar bills for sitting in a room in a hospital by yourself only because it’s in a hospital.

It is. the US insurance system is a mess.

 

[Brett]

My pharmacy will no longer be in the preferred pharmacy network starting January 1. I do not want to go to Walmart, CVS, or Walgreens. They have terrible customer service. I deliberately switched from Walgreens to the pharmacy I use now because it is a small, local place. It has been better at everything compared to Walgreens.

 

[Joey D]

Ya insurance networks are terrible and don't really benefit anyone other than the insurance company. Healthcare systems aren't exactly keen on them either since it prevents a certain part of the population from using its services. Also, the fact the everything changes every single year means anyone who works with healthcare financials has to do a ton of work every December to make the changes, which means they're not doing something more useful.

I know networks are supposed to keep premiums low, but when an insurance company has a monopoly in a given area, they don't really need to care about that. We need more competition in the insurance market to make prices more reasonable. Until we get that, you're going to be paying out the nose.

 

[Keef]

Ya insurance networks are terrible and don't really benefit anyone other than the insurance company.

When you're self-pay and the cardiologist office says, "Actually, the doctor has openings this afternoon..."

Doesn't matter that I'm a 100% financial aid write-off, when they're expecting cash they'll get you an appointment in a right hurry lmao.

 

[ryzno]

When you're self-pay and the cardiologist office says, "Actually, the doctor has openings this afternoon..."

Doesn't matter that I'm a 100% financial aid write-off, when they're expecting cash they'll get you an appointment in a right hurry lmao.

Money talks.

 

[Keef]

Money talks.

And that assumes that those healths which can afford it are more valuable to society than others.

The only way to decide this would be to implement a single-payer option. Of course, the collective bargaining of tens of millions of people using the single-payer system would send private option prices through the stratosphere but gotta pay to play right?