Health Care for Everyone

[Joey D]

That's not a strawman

All presidents get healthcare as part of the job. It's no different than me getting health insurance through my work, which is still technically supported in part with state tax dollars.

 

[Famine]

@Sander 001 Could you explain how either of these responses are actually strawman arguments as you claim? They both seem to address the comments made in the Tweets rather than being a response to comments not made, so I don't really follow why you think they are strawman arguments.

That's part of his compensation. He also gets a personal chef (or 6 or whatever), a security team, a chauffeur, a pilot, a personal jet, a mansion. The US public provides (as compensation and for national security) the president with healthcare.

How is this difficult to understand?

How much tax trump has paid is a separable issue. The costs of running the white house kitchen, white house cleaning staff, air force one, secret service, and the president's healthcare are not required to be offset by presidents through taxes paid prior to taking office.

President Trump gets an income of $400,000 per year while president. I guess that means we should too?

 

[Sander 001]

@Sander 001 Could you explain how either of these responses are actually strawman arguments as you claim? They both seem to address the comments made in the Tweets rather than being a response to comments not made, so I don't really follow why you think they are strawman arguments.

Because it has nothing to do with what was said, 100% avoids the thrust of the point.

 

[ryzno]

Because it has nothing to do with what was said, 100% avoids the thrust of the point.

Ummm, it actually does address the point, you just don't like the answer.
Joey just explained it to you above Famines post.

 

[Famine]

Because it has nothing to do with what was said, 100% avoids the thrust of the point.

How so? Both responses address what were in the Tweets. Neither address something that was not in the Tweets.

It just looks like you're using the term "strawman" to mean you don't agree, which isn't what it's for.

 

[Sander 001]

How so? Both responses address what were in the Tweets. Neither address something that was not in the Tweets.

It just looks like you're using the term "strawman" to mean you don't agree, which isn't what it's for.

I get a promotion with more responsibility so I ask if I will be earning as much as my peers. Their response: "You want to move into my house and share a bed with my wife too?"

 

[Famine]

I get a promotion with more responsibility so I ask if I will be earning as much as my peers. Their response: "You want to move into my house and share a bed with my wife too?"

That isn't an explanation, nor does it make any sense.

I assume it's a response to the second item, but that would make your comment a strawman - because you're not arguing against the point @Danoff made (which argued against the point the Tweet you posted made), but a point you've made up instead to argue against.

 

[Sander 001]

That's not a strawman

All presidents get healthcare as part of the job. It's no different than me getting health insurance through my work, which is still technically supported in part with state tax dollars.

Trump propagandizes against principles of "socialized" healthcare and even tries to destroy it in court, but in reality, he has embraced it as he needed it.

And none of that would be possible if everybody was a tax cheat. President or not.

Some people don't seem to get this.

 

[ryzno]

And none of that would be possible if everybody was a tax cheat.

Everyone pays sales tax... I hope you do your best to pay as little tax per year as possible. If you're not one of the almost 50% who actually really don't pay any taxes and brag about getting a refund...

 

[GranTurNismo]

Just saying... haven't you learnt by now that if you're going to post anti-capitalism images/memes, you will get post-quoted by Danoff every time? Lol

 

[Famine]

Trump propagandizes against principles of "socialized" healthcare and even tries to destroy it in court, but in reality, he has embraced it as he needed it.

Did he? I thought he was at Walter Reed, a military hospital funded by the DOD and - for the Presidential suite alone - the White House, rather than a Medicare/Medicaid facility?

And none of that would be possible if everybody was a tax cheat. President or not.

Does the USA have a hypothecated taxation system, with only personal income tax funding federal healthcare?

 

[Sander 001]

Did he? I thought he was at Walter Reed, a military hospital funded by the DOD and - for the Presidential suite alone - the White House, rather than a Medicare/Medicaid facility?

Does the USA have a hypothecated taxation system, with only personal income tax funding federal healthcare?

I thought the DOD was funded by tax dollars?

 

[Famine]

I thought the DOD was funded by tax dollars?

Yes. As is the White House.

 

[Danoff]

I thought the DOD was funded by tax dollars?

The reason you mistook my response for a strawman is the same reason you thought that the tweet was intelligent to begin with, because you misunderstand the situation. You think that it's not fair for me to point to other parts of his compensation package besides healthcare because you think it's automatically socialized healthcare since it's is paid with tax dollars. In which case, you could make the argument that it's actually communist since his entire compensation (not just healthcare) is provided by taxpayers. In fact, this would apply to all federal employees, especially federal employees receiving any kind of health insurance benefit (which is all of them).

Trump's compensation, and the compensation of all federal employees, including their healthcare package, is not "socialized" simply because it is provided by taxpayers. Taxpayers have hired these people to provide a service, and they have competed with the free market to do so. Trump's healthcare package is capitalist. It is provided by his employer for services rendered. It is the same reason that health insurance packages exist in any job anywhere. And this line of reasoning applies directly to all of the rest of his compensation, including his wages, the white house chef, the white house accommodations, the white house drivers and pilots... all of it. And it directly applies to all government employees. They're compensated in competition with the free market by their employer, the US government.

 

[Sander 001]

The reason you mistook my response for a strawman is the same reason you thought that the tweet was intelligent to begin with, because you misunderstand the situation. You think that it's not fair for me to point to other parts of his compensation package besides healthcare because you think it's automatically socialized healthcare since it's is paid with tax dollars. In which case, you could make the argument that it's actually communist since his entire compensation (not just healthcare) is provided by taxpayers. In fact, this would apply to all federal employees, especially federal employees receiving any kind of health insurance benefit (which is all of them).

Trump's compensation, and the compensation of all federal employees, including their healthcare package, is not "socialized" simply because it is provided by taxpayers. Taxpayers have hired these people to provide a service, and they have competed with the free market to do so. Trump's healthcare package is capitalist. It is provided by his employer for services rendered. It is the same reason that health insurance packages exist in any job anywhere. And this line of reasoning applies directly to all of the rest of his compensation, including his wages, the white house chef, the white house accommodations, the white house drivers and pilots... all of it. And it directly applies to all government employees. They're compensated in competition with the free market by their employer, the US government.

I see you evaded the strawman you yourself put forth. I'll quote it again:

not required to be offset by presidents through taxes paid prior to taking office.

 

[Danoff]

I see you evaded the strawman you yourself put forth. I'll quote it again:

I see you ignored everything I just typed. It was a separate argument, that I didn't think was at the crux of your "strawman" accusation. That separate discussion had to do with how much tax trump has paid over the past X years. And it directly responds to that. The image below insinuates that he has not paid enough for it to be somehow not socialism. The idea I guess is that socialism = free stuff (which is wrong, for other reasons). But my response is straight on point for that criticism.

Still not a strawman. You made a strawman argument, btw, which was pointed out to you. Just in case you wanted to see what one looks like.

Edit:

And just by the way, that comment that you seem to think I evaded is pretty heavily related to everything you ignored. You're either not understanding it, or you're choosing not to acknowledge it. I think it's the latter.

 

[Sander 001]

It was a separate argument, that I didn't think was at the crux of your "strawman" accusation

Even though I directly quoted that specific sentence and removed everything else so there'd be no mistaking it. Hilarious.

 

[Joey D]

Trump propagandizes against principles of "socialized" healthcare and even tries to destroy it in court, but in reality, he has embraced it as he needed it.

Trump isn't using socialized healthcare though, he's using a benefit that he got when he took the job as president. It's no different than any other job that gives perks or benefits to their employees and is part of the total compensation the president gets for their tenure. That's why when you see compensation for a job posting, it's typically salary plus benefits. I know I get about 50% of my salary in benefits every year on top of my take-home pay. Part of my pay comes from tax dollars too, and I'm by no means using socialized medicine. I just happen to work for a government organization.

If Trump wasn't the president and was admitted to the hospital while using Medicare, then I would agree with you that he was using socialized medicine. But right now all he's doing is using a benefit granted to him by his job.

 

[Danoff]

Even though I directly quoted that specific sentence and removed everything else so there'd be no mistaking it. Hilarious.

Yup.

President Trump gets an income of $400,000 per year while president. I guess that means we should too?

Edit:

Don't think I didn't notice that you have no rebuttal.

 

[Sander 001]

Trump isn't using socialized healthcare though, he's using a benefit that he got when he took the job as president. It's no different than any other job that gives perks or benefits to their employees and is part of the total compensation the president gets for their tenure. That's why when you see compensation for a job posting, it's typically salary plus benefits. I know I get about 50% of my salary in benefits every year on top of my take-home pay. Part of my pay comes from tax dollars too, and I'm by no means using socialized medicine. I just happen to work for a government organization.

If Trump wasn't the president and was admitted to the hospital while using Medicare, then I would agree with you that he was using socialized medicine. But right now all he's doing is using a benefit granted to him by his job.

 

[Danoff]

It literally says "government control of medical care". Your absolutely paper-thin response (which was extraordinarily difficult to get out of you) is undermined by its own image.

 

[Sander 001]

It literally says "government control of medical care". Your absolutely paper-thin response (which was extraordinarily difficult to get out of you) is undermined by its own image.

It's not provided or paid for by the government? Then who or what is?

 

[Joey D]

I don't know if you have a job or not, but if you do you surely must get some sort of benefits with it. Even a fast food worker gets discounts on meals and the cashier working retail gets an employee discount on whatever the store sells. The president's healthcare is a benefit of the job. This is along with other things like a security detail and access to a private jet and helicopter. I mean you don't think flying Air Force One is socialized air travel, do you?

 

[Danoff]

It's not provided or paid for by the government? Then who or what is?

Trump's healthcare is not a social benefit, it's not socialized. It's a benefit of employment. One word that I wish you would familiarize yourself with is "steelman". Because you seem like you're capable of insightful critical thinking when you disagree with someone. But you also seem to absolutely shut it off when examining your own biases.

I mean you don't think flying Air Force One is socialized air travel, do you?

In before strawman...

 

[Sander 001]

I don't know if you have a job or not, but if you do you surely must get some sort of benefits with it. Even a fast food worker gets discounts on meals and the cashier working retail gets an employee discount on whatever the store sells. The president's healthcare is a benefit of the job. This is along with other things like a security detail and access to a private jet and helicopter. I mean you don't think flying Air Force One is socialized air travel, do you?

Tell me the president's benefits are not paid for or provided by the government.

 

[Danoff]

Tell me the president's benefits are not paid for or provided by the government.

Tell me socialized healthcare is contingent on employment.

 

[Joey D]

Tell me the president's benefits are not paid for or provided by the government.

Ultimately they are, but that doesn't make it socialized. The president is a government employee and gets certain benefits as a condition of their employment with the United States. Following that line of thinking, anyone in the military fights socialized wars since everything they do is funded by the taxpayers.

And like I said, part of my pay and benefits come from state tax dollars. Does that mean I get socialized medicine? Because I can assure you, I don't.

 

[Sander 001]

Ultimately they are, but that doesn't make it socialized

 

[Danoff]

It literally says "government control of medical care". Your absolutely paper-thin response (which was extraordinarily difficult to get out of you) is undermined by its own image.

 

[Joey D]

So I take it you're not interested in having a conversation and instead just want to post screenshots?