Health Care for Everyone

  • Thread starter Danoff
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I hadn't realized I would need to connect so many dots for you.
My argument remains unchanged.
Technically, in a discussion, and especially a debate, you should realize it is your duty to connect all of the dots you want followed. If you do not want to be taken to task as you rightly are at the moment, you should be sure to be quite concise, not in the least be vague.
 
Technically, in a discussion, and especially a debate, you should realize it is your duty to connect all of the dots you want followed. If you do not want to be taken to task as you rightly are at the moment, you should be sure to be quite concise, not in the least be vague.
If they can't connect simple dots, then they don't have the requisite knowledge on the discussion in the first place or they're blindly loyal to their laughable ideology.
 
If they can't connect simple dots, then they don't have the requisite knowledge on the discussion in the first place or they're blindly loyal to their laughable ideology.

It's fun that a conversation about your claims and the claims in tweets you posted are about anyone but you.
 
Those Twitter posts linked to articles which thoroughly demonstrate the brokenness of the healthcare system. Did you read any of them?

Yes, the US healthcare system is broken, but it's not broken in the way you're saying it is. No one is denied care based on their propensity to pay. Yes, insurance might deny the claim, but even if the claim is denied the health system will still treat you. The health system will also help patients who can't pay by working with them to develop payment plans, offer financial relief, or simply write off the patient's balance. It happens all the time.

I know you say you're making the same argument and refuse to connect the dots or whatever, but your argument is based on false information.
 
Yes, the US healthcare system is broken, but it's not broken in the way you're saying it is. No one is denied care based on their propensity to pay. Yes, insurance might deny the claim, but even if the claim is denied the health system will still treat you. The health system will also help patients who can't pay by working with them to develop payment plans, offer financial relief, or simply write off the patient's balance. It happens all the time.

I know you say you're making the same argument and refuse to connect the dots or whatever, but your argument is based on false information.
Nope, I posted facts backed up by articles and journalism. All you've posted is your opinion with nothing to back it up.
 
Nope, I posted facts backed up by articles and journalism. All you've posted is your opinion with nothing to back it up.

It's part of my job, how would you like me to post that? I can't very well post internal documents on the internet.

But here's just a basic outline of some things you can do if you're faced with a bill you can't pay: https://www.magnifymoney.com/blog/p...pital-bill-reduced-even-eliminated1389897953/

“Just ask,” said Pam Horack, CFP® and founder of Pathfinder Planning. “I have found that if you contact the hospital billing department about payment, they are more than willing to work with you.”

This statement by Pam Horack is 100% true. If you can't pay, call the billing department and explain your circumstances. I don't know why most people who are in trouble financially with medical bills don't do this. Probably because there's so much BS information floating around that they're going to go bankrupt from medical bills. Can you end up in a bad way if you have expensive care? Absolutely, but it's not the norm like you seem to be suggesting.
 
Those Twitter posts linked to articles which thoroughly demonstrate the brokenness of the healthcare system. Did you read any of them?
Yes. Did you?



Because while the articles both question aloud whether it's right for a not-for-profit hospital to try to use the court system/bench warrants in that manner against people the hospital perceives as refusing to pay anything for treatment, and notes that the lawyer the article talks about seems to have revolutionized the collections procedures in that little town, you're not even trying to have that conversation. You're skipping from "person didn't appear for their court date, was served a bench warrant for contempt of court and arrested" which is what the articles are actually about as you were already told; and then skipping all the way the hell to "person was dying of cancer and AIDS and COVID and SARS and DEATH and the hospital put them in jail for it. *AUDIBLE GASP*" and then finding individual sentences from those ten-page-word-document articles to as if the people who told you that that's what the articles were about didn't see those sentences themselves.
 
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So that's a no then.

Your argument shifted from:



To some judges are corrupt. That's a hell of a shift.

Also, you quote-mined again, took that statement (your quote from the article about contempt for non-payment) completely out of context, and presented it as something else:



So if you fail to show up for court you get charged attorney's fees, and if you refuse to pay those you can be held in contempt... in some cases.... by some judges... and it's questionable.

And this supports your initial thesis that the US healthcare system puts you in jail for being in debt from cancer treatment. Wild.
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I didn't say that everybody who beats cancer will end up in prison. I didn't say everybody who beats a deadly illness will end up broke or in debt.

And I didn't say that there are singular causes for miscarriages of justice in the judicial system. Nor did I say the inequities of the healthcare system are limited to one factor or one issue.

I didn't think your incoherent narrative would include dreaming up strawmen arguments but here we are.
 
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I didn't say that everybody who beats cancer will end up in prison. I didn't say everybody who beats a deadly illness will end up broke or in debt.

cg9qzscr-1353902186.jpg



And I didn't say that there are singular causes for miscarriages of justice in the judicial system. Nor did I say the inequities of the healthcare system are limited to one factor or one issue.

StrawMan2-600x350.jpg



I didn't think your incoherent narrative would include dreaming up wild assumptions but here we are.

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It's part of my job, how would you like me to post that? I can't very well post internal documents on the internet.

But here's just a basic outline of some things you can do if you're faced with a bill you can't pay: https://www.magnifymoney.com/blog/p...pital-bill-reduced-even-eliminated1389897953/



This statement by Pam Horack is 100% true. If you can't pay, call the billing department and explain your circumstances. I don't know why most people who are in trouble financially with medical bills don't do this. Probably because there's so much BS information floating around that they're going to go bankrupt from medical bills. Can you end up in a bad way if you have expensive care? Absolutely, but it's not the norm like you seem to be suggesting.
Filled with so many words like "could", "may", "likely", not to mention sections on finding personal loans and taking on credit card debt.

Overall these are helpful, even if they are bandaid solutions.
That's no way to live and it doesn't even begin to cover many other failures of healthcare like ongoing care and meds

 
Filled with so many words like "could", "may", "likely", not to mention sections on finding personal loans and taking on credit card debt.

Overall these are helpful, even if they are bandaid solutions.
That's no way to live and it doesn't even begin to cover many other failures of healthcare like ongoing care and meds

That's the way articles are written since it's not a one size fits all solution and there are still for-profit health systems that really don't care if you can't pay or not.

What do you suggest we do to fix it? I assume your answer will be single-payer, which I can tell you right now would be tragically bad. Medicaid and Medicare are already horrible, as is insurance acquired under the ACA. The government can't manage anything, so why would I want them to manage my healthcare? Not to mention the BS Medicaid and Medicare makes you jump through would make getting simple procedures done a massive headache. It's already made things awful, especially with Meaningful Use, which is hot garbage.

If you want lower healthcare costs, there are a couple of ways we could accomplish it. First vastly limiting malpractice lawsuits would go a long way. There are so many frivolous malpractice lawsuits that the cost of care is driven up across the board. Most hospitals just settle out of court because it's a pain to take those cases to trial. Yes, there are still malpractice lawsuits that just and warranted, but many aren't. Malpractice insurance for a health system is insanely expensive. For one surgeon the cost can be $50,000 a year, for a family doctor it's around $10,000, and for some specialties, it can be up near $100,000. At the hospital I work at, we have right around 1,000 physicians covering 200 specialties.

We also need way more competition in healthcare. The way it's regulated, all beds in a hospital are licensed and there can only be so many beds in a given area, which is based on the population. This limits from XYZ organization building a competing hospital in an area. Most major cities have 2 or 3 major health systems that control everything. That's not a ton of competition. Same goes for insurance, in the US you don't have a ton of choice for health insurance and you're most likely to end up with some form of Blue Cross Blue Sheild. It's also difficult to cross-shop insurance providers.

Finally, people could just take better care of themselves. The leading cause of death in the US is heart disease and much of that can be contributed to poor lifestyles. If a population takes better care of itself, the need for healthcare will be reduced as will expensive treatments.
 
That's the way articles are written since it's not a one size fits all solution and there are still for-profit health systems that really don't care if you can't pay or not.

What do you suggest we do to fix it? I assume your answer will be single-payer, which I can tell you right now would be tragically bad. Medicaid and Medicare are already horrible, as is insurance acquired under the ACA. The government can't manage anything, so why would I want them to manage my healthcare? Not to mention the BS Medicaid and Medicare makes you jump through would make getting simple procedures done a massive headache. It's already made things awful, especially with Meaningful Use, which is hot garbage.

If you want lower healthcare costs, there are a couple of ways we could accomplish it. First vastly limiting malpractice lawsuits would go a long way. There are so many frivolous malpractice lawsuits that the cost of care is driven up across the board. Most hospitals just settle out of court because it's a pain to take those cases to trial. Yes, there are still malpractice lawsuits that just and warranted, but many aren't. Malpractice insurance for a health system is insanely expensive. For one surgeon the cost can be $50,000 a year, for a family doctor it's around $10,000, and for some specialties, it can be up near $100,000. At the hospital I work at, we have right around 1,000 physicians covering 200 specialties.

We also need way more competition in healthcare. The way it's regulated, all beds in a hospital are licensed and there can only be so many beds in a given area, which is based on the population. This limits from XYZ organization building a competing hospital in an area. Most major cities have 2 or 3 major health systems that control everything. That's not a ton of competition. Same goes for insurance, in the US you don't have a ton of choice for health insurance and you're most likely to end up with some form of Blue Cross Blue Sheild. It's also difficult to cross-shop insurance providers.

Finally, people could just take better care of themselves. The leading cause of death in the US is heart disease and much of that can be contributed to poor lifestyles. If a population takes better care of itself, the need for healthcare will be reduced as will expensive treatments.
I guess I wasn't clear enough: I'm not reading your opinions. If you have anything substantive, link the source, not adverts or marketing.
 
I guess I wasn't clear enough: I'm not reading your opinions. If you have anything substantive, link the source, not adverts or marketing.

So should I just post tweets?

Also didn't you say this exact statement?
So your critical thinking informs you that a person is not permitted to draw off their own experiences when commenting on an article?

Guess what? I have experience with all this because it's how I make a living. Does your critical thinking inform you that I shouldn't be able to draw from my own experiences or what?

But it seems like you don't want to have an actual discussion and instead want to just postwhore screenshots you get from r/WhitePeopleTwitter.
 
I think the biggest issue is related to the prescription industry in America and due to a lack of bulk single payer option the prices for drugs are massively inflated, alot of which are lifesaving such as insulin.

Just over 50% of Hospitals are Non-profit so you can have options on surgeries but I would suspect this can be area limited.

There is still the ethical dilemma of Medical bankruptcy which isn't really a thing in the rest of the developed world.

Then you have the whole issue of criminalized debt which is not just limited to Healthcare obviously but does include it, which no doubt has insurance companies hands all over law makers to make that possible.
 
Because you may be facing an effective death panel whenever you can't pay, even when there's no pandemic.
Just who are these "death panels"? Can you cite some specific examples? Keep in mind we're talking about the death panel one might face because of inability to pay, but cited sources referencing any other medical death panels will do.
 


Not even 911 first responders are immune from the horrors of this healthcare system.


I'm having trouble viewing that just this second, but I think this is a video that made the rounds a year ago. The current update is apparent success for the bill, with a photo of stewart smirking. Again, I'm having difficulty viewing twitter, so I might have missed something.

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@Sander 001
I just scanned this page but seems to me what’s happened is you are trying to tell a guy working in an industry that he needs to forget everything he sees and does and instead allow himself to be indoctrinated with TWITTER CLIPS?
I can find a thousand TWITTER CLIPS PROVING THE EARTH IS FLAT LOL
par for the course.
Have a nice day.
 

That's part of his compensation. He also gets a personal chef (or 6 or whatever), a security team, a chauffeur, a pilot, a personal jet, a mansion. The US public provides (as compensation and for national security) the president with healthcare.

How is this difficult to understand?

How much tax trump has paid is a separable issue. The costs of running the white house kitchen, white house cleaning staff, air force one, secret service, and the president's healthcare are not required to be offset by presidents through taxes paid prior to taking office.
 
That's part of his compensation. He also gets a personal chef (or 6 or whatever), a security team, a chauffeur, a pilot, a personal jet, a mansion. The US public provides (as compensation and for national security) the president with healthcare.

How is this difficult to understand?

How much tax trump has paid is a separable issue. The costs of running the white house kitchen, white house cleaning staff, air force one, secret service, and the president's healthcare are not required to be offset by presidents through taxes paid prior to taking office.
Not to mention I'm sure he's paid in way more than $750 in tax over his lifetime.
 
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