Honda Insight + Hybrid Chatter: What the CR-Z should have been all along - Post 288

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I thought it was the new "in thing" to sell cars for the next model year in like February of the previous year...
 
A fair number of companies will usually push out their 2010 models a little early by comparison to the "regular" product cycle. The Challenger did that for 2008, obviously the Honda and the Camaro are doing it right now.
 
Rusty Wallis has sent me an e-mail telling me to come test drive the new Insight, so I'm going to go check it out tomorrow. :)
 
To further the "Toyota to make a competitor" post earlier, there have been details leaking out all week about what car the competitor would be based on. Obviously, it would have to be based on a mass-market platform to reduce costs, which is exactly what Honda have done with the Insight, using a modified Fit/Jazz platform.

Rumour at first was that the Auris platform would be used, the Auris being the car that replaced the Corolla in the UK and Asia. Predictably however, it appears Toyota may well be using the platform from their very own Fit/Jazz competitor, the Yaris:

AutoBlogGreen
The speculation can finally end. After weeks of hearing rumors regarding an impending low-cost hybrid from Toyota, reports are now coming out of Japan that the automaker is working on getting a hybrid drivetrain installed in the Yaris platform. The new car will use the same Hybrid Synergy Drive technology as the Prius but will cost considerably less when it goes on sale, possibly as early as 2011.

This new development is a direct response to the new Honda Insight, a hybrid hatchback that ostensibly competes with the Toyota Prius but costs thousands less due to its slightly smaller size, including a downsized engine and battery pack. When Toyota's Insight-fighter hits the market, we'd expect it to carry an engine that roughly matches the Insight's 1.3 liters, a full half-liter smaller than the powerplant in the 2010 Prius.
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Source

So there you go. Obviously not confirmed yet, but it appears a Yaris-based platform is to be used. It's the logical way to go really, as the platform should be cheaper than the mooted Auris one anyway.

Incidentally, road tests have started coming in for the 2010 Prius and it appears to be getting very good fuel figures indeed. This article again from AutoBlogGreen, I've only taken the relevant section:

AutoBlogGreen
The Prius' chief engineer, Akihiko Otsuka, drove a 33-mile route in and around Napa and averaged 62.9 mpg. During the drive week, he levied a Beat-The-Chief challenge to anyone who wanted to take him on. AutoblogGreen was able to get the in-dash display to read in the mid- to low-70s for most of the route, but the last ten miles on a busy 55-mph road dropped that to 64.5 mpg. Not bad, but only good for a standing near the absolute bottom of the rankings among other journalists. Overall, the best score was 94.6 mpg, although that involved some less-than-real-world driving behaviors and conditions. The best "honest" score was 75.3 mpg. In all, about half of the journalists were able to get over 70 mpg, while the rest, save two, were able to get more than 66 mpg.
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Seems much better than the figures from both the previous Prius and the new Insight. And am I the only one who thinks that the new Prius looks better than the old one and the new Insight too?

2010_prius_05_opt.jpg
 
homeforsummer
And am I the only one who thinks that the new Prius looks better than the old one and the new Insight too?
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Wouldn't surprise me. The profile of the new Prius looks awful. If automotive design was a test, I wouldn't be surprised if that roofline and rising beltline and other bits were a wrong answer. Maybe that's just me though.
 
I don't understand the rising beltline. Sure it may look cool from the front 3/4 view, but in any other view it just looks bad, not to mention why would you want to decrease the amount of window to see out of?
 
I quite like the profile. It looks much better than the previous Prius and I prefer it to the new Insight too. It could do with the front wheels being mounted further forward as the front overhang is a bit on the long side.
 
Between the Prius and the Insight, I'd give the nod to the Honda in terms of looks and performance. Personally speaking, the differences in fuel economy and the overall driving experience would lead me to the Insight, let alone the savings in the total price of the car. Certainly, some have been saying that 70 MPG is easily achievable in the new Prius, and the new three-mode driving system allows for a more "realistic" driving experience... But it just isn't for me.

Strange, really, because I'd rather just spend the extra money for the Ford Fusion Hybrid. Doing 43 MPG in a full-size car, being able to run solely on electric power until 47 MPH is perfect for the kind of driving I do. Problem is, its $8000 more than the Insight.
 
YSSMAN
Between the Prius and the Insight, I'd give the nod to the Honda in terms of looks and performance. Personally speaking, the differences in fuel economy and the overall driving experience would lead me to the Insight, let alone the savings in the total price of the car. Certainly, some have been saying that 70 MPG is easily achievable in the new Prius, and the new three-mode driving system allows for a more "realistic" driving experience... But it just isn't for me.
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Personally, I never really liked the Prius either. I think way too many celebs needlessly own it. I'd personally call the Prius a joke, actually.
 
I'd say he has a point. Even with the price difference between the Prius and the Insight, the Insight is still pretty pointless in Europe. To say nothing of the negligible difference between the Insight and Prius in America.
 
I gave up reading that article when he started talking about the way it drives.

Clarkson is Mr. Exotic Car. The Insight is a hybrid. I don't even know why they bothered putting him behind the wheel of anything without some kind of sporting credentials. He's only going to bash on it. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a car that wasn't designed for driving pleasure is probably going to be boring to drive.
 
I agree that Clarkson probably isn't the best person to comment on how good the Insight is, and that every single word should also be taken with a whole handful of salt as he's not exactly known for his subtleness. Rather, making mountains out of molehills and bending the truth to improve his punchlines are the order of the day (such as when Top Gear tested the Tesla Roadster and it "ran out of power", which Tesla say it did nothing of the sort).

I'm not wildly keen on the new Insight and the only hybrid I have any interest in is the old Insight, but I don't for a second believe it's as bad as he's making out.
 
Some of his observations are spot on... the ride... the seats (Honestly, Honda has quite forgotten how to make a car seat that fits an actual human being instead of the ASIMOs that work at their plant)... the problems with the price.

The Prius is a car built on bespoke near-midsize platform which shares nothing with the Corolla or Camry, with an electric motor that can power the car on its own. The new Insight is built on a platform shared with a subcompact car, with more parts commonality, with an assist-only electric system. It has less space, less "hybrid", and... well... less of everything... and yet it only undercuts the Prius by a measly $1,000.

I'd expected it to sell for the $15k they promised... since it's based on a cheap platform... but the price ballooned in development... so now we have a sub-Prius that's not much cheaper, instead of a hybrid that is truly affordable for the common man.

Honda...









...plot.
 
niky
The new Insight is built on a platform shared with a subcompact car, with more parts commonality, with an assist-only electric system. It has less space, less "hybrid", and... well... less of everything... and yet it only undercuts the Prius by a measly $1,000...

...so now we have a sub-Prius that's not much cheaper, instead of a hybrid that is truly affordable for the common man.
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I can't argue with their train of thought. The word "Hybrid" has waaaaay too many positive connotations here in America, and with everyone attempting to get their GREEN on, they'll buy it if its cheap - and it is. The first Hybrid vehicle under $20K? You can bet your ass it will bring people in. Problem is, the market is still pretty much dead. Since they started selling them in the States, I've only seen one on the road, and it was in a well-to-do neighborhood. If this is the Hybrid "for the everyman," chances are it will end up being the Hybrid of the "twenty-something hipsters."

I dig the ad campaign they're running now, at the very least.

I agree that diesel power is still the true champion in efficiency for the people (diesel is now cheaper than unleaded here), but I'm not about to hate someone for nabbing one of these otherwise. The price is good, its a pretty decent (all around) car, so I guess that all comes down to what you're in the market for. They still make the Civic Hybrid, which isn't half bad. Obviously there is that damn Prius. The only other serious option being the Fusion/Milan Hybrid, which are still $8000 more than the Insight (and well worth it I might add).
 
YSSMAN
I can't argue with their train of thought. The word "Hybrid" has waaaaay too many positive connotations here in America, and with everyone attempting to get their GREEN on, they'll buy it if its cheap - and it is. The first Hybrid vehicle under $20K? You can bet your ass it will bring people in. Problem is, the market is still pretty much dead. Since they started selling them in the States, I've only seen one on the road, and it was in a well-to-do neighborhood. If this is the Hybrid "for the everyman," chances are it will end up being the Hybrid of the "twenty-something hipsters."
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So far, the Insight is doing pretty well in Hybrid-friendly Seattle. I've seen quite a few running around over here. But the real test will probably come as summer goes on. The thing still is a bit of a novelty vehicle, so people trying to be on the leading edge will probably be picking them up. I guess we'll just see if I start seeing more and more of them in the coming months.
 
If a car is producing less CO2 as a result of being a hybrid, shouldn't the leaf-ometer shrink instead of grow?
 
Omnis
If a car is producing less CO2 as a result of being a hybrid, shouldn't the leaf-ometer shrink instead of grow?
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Seems legit. We're slowly killing off plant life around the world by curbing our CO2 production, and their food supply. I've never heard the liberal "scientists" mention that on the news before...
 
I'm feeling the need to strike out and see what I actually think of the car behind the wheel. I can't think of spending any time behind the wheel of a Hybrid previously, so this could be a halfway decent start. Plus, we're thinking about getting rid of the Grand Prix. Possibly. This wouldn't be a bad place to start.
 
I've seen one in the flesh, and they don't look to bad, honestly. Of course, the dealer also managed to get his hands on a real Insight, and looked somewhat annoyed that I was paying more attention to Hybriding Circa 1999 than the one he was trying to sell.
I've also seen one out in the wild, and even in non-gussied up showroom guise it doesn't look too bad. It looks better than the 4th gen Prius, at least, though if I was forced to get a hybrid I still wouldn't bother with the Insight (of course, I'd probably get a Tahoe or something, so whatevs).
 
Keef
Seems legit. We're slowly killing off plant life around the world by curbing our CO2 production, and their food supply. I've never heard the liberal "scientists" mention that on the news before...
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This sounds very weird to me. As if you're trying to say that cars are the basis for plant life...:odd:
 
He's also forgetting that while we're reducing the supply of CO2 for the plants, we're also reducing the number of plants demanding CO2. By the laws of supply and demand, the lower demand and lower supply should equate to the same conditions?
 
Funnily enough, someone mentioned the plant thing on Autobloggreen's post about Clarkson's drive. Still, at least people on this forum are aware that Clarkson is just getting a reaction. More than can be said for the utter morons posting their comments after the article. The poster known as downtoearth on there seems a particular nuisance. Not only does he seem to be vehemently anti-diesel (he mentions how "rubbish" they are in every single one of his posts, and how the hybrid is the saviour of the world...) but also takes the time to be utterly insulting to the UK in his latest effort, for no apparent reason.

God bless un-moderated discussion, eh? (Incidentally, I left a comment under tarmacblog on the article too in response to his. Will be interesting to see his response)

Regarding CO2, I doubt the small overall reduction in CO2 figures really has any effect on plantlife, given that for the most part (not recently, obviously), the world generally buys more cars every year so any reduction at the source is probably canceled out by the increasing number of sources.
 
This Volkswagen ad fully represents my thoughts on this hybrid nonsense.

 
Can't expect much from any print publication with online content... they really don't pay attention to the comments sections...
 

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