Hostage Drama in Sydney

[somebody]

Just noticed something, maybe one of you can confirm this, but is Martin Place connected at all to the Reserve Bank of Australia? If so, it might not be terrorism that is the motive here, but rather robbery?

Martin Place is a pedestrian mall intersected by a number of other streets. There are a number of high profile businesses, institutions, and government offices along its length. Given the location and engineering of the buildings, robbery is very unlikely.

The location was almost certainly chosen because of all the high profile sites in the area.

Channel 7, whose studio is across from the cafe, was evacuated very early during the event and has been transmitting from its Melbourne studio during the day. Channel 7 news/camera crews have no greater access than any other news outlet that I can see.

 

[kennylmao]

The last thing they want is to equate the flag with a terrorist act when it is not specifically synonymous with a terror group.

Uhh... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Standard#Jihadist_black_flag So lone wolf terrorism isn't terrorism?

Anyway, hope things don't turn bad for the hostages.

 

[HP]

Cool, I'll tell my mate who works at Westpac he should tell his peeps to read the paper.

I worked for the 'Pac for many years and am familiar with the Martin Place building - It would be far more prudent to secure it and lock the doors than have all those people evacuated and put in potential danger. Either that or find another egress, the front doors, magnificent as they may be, are not the only way in or out.

Definitely worth staying put until it reaches a climax though, in my opinion.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

So lone wolf terrorism isn't terrorism?

Did I say that? No. I said the police aren't saying "terrorist" until they have to.

 

[HP]

Did I say that? No. I said the police aren't saying "terrorist" until they have to.

They are being very tight lipped but they have to be these days. One wrong thing reported and the whole thing could go to 🤬

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Indeed. And one of the working theories is that this guy is a lone wolf, an unaffiliated sympathiser trying to make the connection to IS. If the police start calling him a terrorist, that legitimises his connection. But if they treat him as a criminal, they can deny that relationship.

 

[kennylmao]

Did I say that? No. I said the police aren't saying "terrorist" until they have to.

Didn't say you said that. It was just a question. When do they "have to"? He has the black shahada flag that is known to be used by terrorists.

Indeed. And one of the working theories is that this guy is a lone wolf, an unaffiliated sympathiser trying to make the connection to IS. If the police start calling him a terrorist, that legitimises his connection. But if they treat him as a criminal, they can deny that relationship.

So the concern of the police is whether to legitimize this idiot's wish to be a martyr for IS rather than calling a spade a spade. Excellent.

They are being very tight lipped but they have to be these days. One wrong thing reported and the whole thing could go to 🤬

Why? Because of fears of riots happening again?

 

[HP]

No mate, for fear that he starts murdering people en masse if he hears or sees something that pushes him over the edge.

I do have a theory but there's a lot unconfirmed so this isn't fact, it's my theory based on media reports so it could well be way off the mark.

They've apparently arrested a man earlier today who had plans to behead someone in a public place, the word Cafe was used.

If there is meant to be two then this guy is down on man power.

If the guy who was arrested is the one with the weaponry (machete perhaps?) then the guy in the cafe could well be stuck in there with no means to carry out the original plan hence him still being there. He could be stuck in there with fake explosives and no actual weapons. Does not explain why he did not abort the plan when his accomplice failed to show though...

Just a thought, could be way off the mark but that's where my thoughts are going.

 

[kennylmao]

@Heathenpride I see.

 

[HP]

Like I said, could be so drastically off the mark. It could just be a nutter, could be any number of scenarios really.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

They've apparently arrested a man earlier today who had plans to behead someone in a public place, the word Cafe was used.

Police have said they don't believe that he had anything to do with it.

Why? Because of fears of riots happening again?

The trained apes that run our country introduced tough new anti-terror laws in September that were accused of being anti-Muslim.

What we know for certain is that this guy, whatever his motivation, is a Muslim. He would have no other reason for possessing a shahada flag, and the shahada is presented as a legitimate declaration of faith. A shahada on black has terrorist connotations, but they're not mutually inclusive. So if the police go from "he's a Muslim" to "he's a terrorist" too quickly and without justification - like I said, it's a bell that they can't un-ring - then they run the risk of alienating disaffected Muslim youth who already believe that they are already being ostracised by the conservative politicians and media.

 

[Liquid]

Did this actually happen?

An opinion piece in the Herald Sun attacks what it calls the "despicable rubberneckers who took selfies and socked back beers and wine while they gawked at the Martin Place siege 100 metres away."

"Lingering just so you can tweet a pic of yourself to your mates, or worse to grab a few coldies and settle in to watch the utter horror unfold like it's a movie at the cinema, is just deplorable," it adds.

 

[HP]

If he doesn't then there goes my theory! Not exactly saying much though and what they are saying is carefully worded and calculated.

What I do find a bit rubbish is they keep saying for the general public to carry on as normal but wherever you look there's media coverage on it, and don't get me started on the amount of dodgy racists on Facebook... Idiots.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The dodgy racists were always there. Facebook just gave them a voice.

Did this actually happen?

There have reportedly been a handful, but nowhere near as many as the "Herald Sun" is claiming. They're right-wing conservatives, which is to say that they present anything that isn't them as a threat to national identity.

 

[mustafur]

Their position doesn't matter - they don't check facts.

Also, the police evacuated the surrounding buildings hours ago.

I know that, what I'm saying is the police are using sevens facilities.

 

[Liquid]

There have reportedly been a handful, but nowhere near as many as the "Herald Sun" is claiming.

A handful of :censored:s is still a handful of :censored:s.

I'm slowly seeing lots of worrying but unconfirmed rumours about this situation. When did the telephone jamming and disabled internet take effect?

 

[HP]

The dodgy racists were always there. Facebook just gave them a voice.

True but when something like this happens the number grows. The news coverage is so saturated on free to air TV that I switched it to golf on fox and my girlfriend says "thank god for that" and that's saying something, she hates golf!

 

[Mic_Col]

Martin Place is a pedestrian mall intersected by a number of other streets. There are a number of high profile businesses, institutions, and government offices along its length.

Just to add more to this, for people not familiar with Sydney . . . you could arguably call Martin Place the center of Sydney CBD. It's a wide pedestrian mall that goes for a number of blocks. There's the central post office for Sydney, the Reserve bank of Australia is there ( not 100% sure if it's their main center or not, but it's big ) The NSW Parliament building is just off the top of it too. A lot of large companies have there HQ's there. And there is the Inner city war Memorial site down at the south end.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'm slowly seeing lots of worrying but unconfirmed rumours about this situation. When did the telephone jamming and disabled internet take effect?

This is the first I'm hearing of it, so if it has happened, it has happened recently. The hostage-taker has apparently made little attempt to prevent the hostages from establishing contact with the media, and has reportedly even encouraged it - several media outlets have said they have received demands from him through the hostages. But at the request of police, the media aren't sharing his demands or his identity. If the police are blocking phone and internet services, then I'm guessing that he's still trying to communicate through the hostages and they're trying to force him to communicate directly with them. But there are still plenty of journalists at the edge of the exclusion zone who are Tweeting and sending live updates to blogs.

 

[Liquid]

Someone else told me (ongoing FB activity) that the police don't have the authority to disable internet connections and jam telephones which, if true and lawfully respected, gives limited credence to any tweets and Facebook messages doing the rounds such as this from an alleged hostage.

But of course, one still doesn't take anything as read at this juncture.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Someone else told me (ongoing FB activity) that the police don't have the authority to disable internet connections and jam telephones which, if true and lawfully respected, gives limited credence to any tweets and Facebook messages doing the rounds

No, but there are agencies involved in this that would have such power, if it indeed exists. NSW police at taking the lead are here, but you can bet there is an entire alphabet involved in the background.

 

[Liquid]

Given that Abbott has chaired an NSC meeting, I don't doubt that other agencies were swiftly drafted into this situation.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Given that Abbott has chaired an NSC meeting, I don't doubt that other agencies were swiftly drafted into this situation.

I'm surprised that the trained ape has been so quiet this time around, given minor success he had during MH17. Maybe somebody has had a word with him about it ...

 

[GTboyz]

Don't know if this is posted here but the identity of the hostage taker has been revealed as Man Haron Monis, an Iranian cleric currently on bail for a string of violence offences including sending offensive letters to families of dead soldiers and for being an accesory of his wife's murder.

 

[mustafur]

Don't know if this is posted here but the identity of the hostage taker has been revealed as Man Haron Monis, an Iranian cleric currently on bail for a string of violence offences including sending offensive letters to families of dead soldiers and for being an accesory of his wife's murder.

Seems like the kind of person you offer bail to.

 

[mustafur]

After just coming back from the city now I can tell you one thing, apart from the people who work in the city, the people that live there are treating it as if nothing unusual is going on, on the west side of Martin place people are walking around like nothing is going on.

It's quite unusual.

 

[MHPALA]

Finally. Another one out?

Bullets flying

 

[TDZdave]

After just coming back from the city now I can tell you one thing, apart from the people who work in the city, the people that live there are treating it as if nothing unusual is going on, on the west side of Martin place people are walking around like nothing is going on.

It's quite unusual.

well, acts of violence/ terrorism seem to be becoming the normal Sydney CBD,


Excuse me for seeming that my head is in the sand, but due to my general living arrangements and the fact that when I'm in my truck there is an ipod plugged in due to the fact I hate the radio (to much talking, not enough music, when there is music it almost puts me to sleep) so I get no news stream at all, which is great as I don't get updates on Kym Kardashian's back shaving visits, but how global are Muslim/ Islam extremists attacks getting? and how frequent are they?

 

[TDZdave]

Police confirmed the siege is over, and an officer was injured, no harm to the remaining hostages,

 

[Touring Mars]

Police confirmed the siege is over, and an officer was injured, no harm to the remaining hostages,

Some hostages are definitely injured, but there is still no 'official' word yet on how many hostages have been injured or how badly. Several reports suggest the gunman is dead (unconfirmed), and one other fatality, but it is not known whether that was a hostage. Some reports are suggesting that at least one police officer is also injured.