Hostage Drama in Sydney

[GTboyz]

Some reports did say 2 people died, its still unclear who are they. Hope its not the hostages.

 

[Liquid]

Two deaths is never encouraging when there is one gunman.

 

[TDZdave]

follow @nswpolice on twitter, they will have the news first

 

[HP]

Reports (live) are that we have two killed, one believed to be the gunman.

The reporters don't know exactly though, I'm watching a lot of gunfire, it's surreal.

 

[TDZdave]

yeah, after further investigation there is consistency on what is being reported,

 

[Andrew R]

Most reports now say two hostages have been killed, plus the gunman. Seems like seven hostages did the runner around 2am, then the gunman opened fire a few minutes later so police went in and returned fire.

Australian media is so painful.

 

[Liquid]

Come on, was there or will there ever be a televised hostage or terrorist situation where the media coverage is seamless, accurate and balanced?

Take nothing as read and expect nothing more until after the fact.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Australian media is so painful.

You're only just working that out now?

 

[mister dog]

Bloody hatebeards trying to make god proud acting like violent lunatics everywhere...
I'm sure we'll see more of these instances when they try to kill innocent folk in the west, just like it's their hobby over there in Syria and Iraq.

Seems the aussie swat team did a good job entering and preventing worse. Shame those 2 people lost their lives.

 

[HP]

The guy was on bail for accessory to murder (before and after the fact) of his ex wife, apparently also 40 odd counts of indecent assault... He also sent hateful letters years ago to families of deceased service men and women...

And he was on bail...

 

[HP]

Advice just in that the guy was dozing off and the hostages decided to make a break for it. At that point the guy wakes up and starts firing so the emergency action plan (go in guns blazing) was activated and he was killed. A police officer got hit with shrapnel and apparently one death was a heart attack

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Bloody hatebeards trying to make god proud acting like violent lunatics everywhere...

From the sounds of things, he had more in common with people who get pushed over the edge than with terrorists. He was granted asylum in 1996 after his liberal interpretation of Islam got him in some kind of trouble with the Iranian authorities. Most terrorists subscribe to a radical, rather than progressive ideology.

While he was in court on murder charges, he apparently tried to represent himself and wanted the judge to allow him to see files that he was convinced ASIO had on him. The judge refused.

I'd say what has happened is that he fled Iran for a country that was seen as more progressive, but he still felt targeted once he got here. He probably didn't see any difference between the tactics used by the Iranians and those used by ASIO, and accused them of conspiring to send him to prison. That was a year ago, so something recent probably set him off. I'm guessing it was Abbott's anti-terror legislation; it probably would have further convinced him that he was being targeted.

 

[DK]

I was a bit surprised to hear the gunman was from Iran, and therefore (presumably) a Shia Muslim. I'm even more surprised to see ^above that he had a "liberal" interpretation of Islam.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I was a bit surprised to hear the gunman was from Iran, and therefore (presumably) a Shia Muslim. I'm even more surprised to see ^above that he had a "liberal" interpretation of Islam.

Which is why I think he just snapped rather than actively planned it out. He felt persecuted by ASIO, our intelligence agency, and apparently constructed this delusion where all of the charges against him were a conspiracy between ASIO and Tehran to imprison him.

 

[Sanji Himura]

I was a bit surprised to hear the gunman was from Iran, and therefore (presumably) a Shia Muslim. I'm even more surprised to see ^above that he had a "liberal" interpretation of Islam.

That's probably not true. According to the gunman's Wikipedia page (bad source for news information, I know) he converted from Shi'ite to Sunni in Iran.


@prisonermonkeys: On a brief historical note, he probably escaped from Iran when the Ayatollahs imprisoned anyone who believed in the 12th Imam, a radical doctrine in Islam.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It's somewhat ironic that months ago, there were a series of anti-terror raids that prevented a gruesome plot, and there was backlash against the Muslim population, with attacks on mosques and women having their hijabs and niqabs forcibly removed on the street.

Now, there has actually been an attack, and the community response has been the hashtag #illridewithyou, with the wider community pledging to ride public transport with Australian Muslims so that they don't have to feel afraid of reprisals.

Well done, Sydney. I think we've grown.

 

[Carbonox]

I was a bit surprised to hear the gunman was from Iran, and therefore (presumably) a Shia Muslim. I'm even more surprised to see ^above that he had a "liberal" interpretation of Islam.

Why is it surprising?

TBH, Shia and Sunni terrorism doesn't really surprise me at all these days. If this guy was a Sufi, that would've been a pretty major shock.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Well done, Sydney. I think we've grown.

Absolutely. I'm pleasantly surprised by the reaction by the general public, I expected to see my Facebook blow up with anti-muslim posts but it was the complete opposite. Unlike the media though, their reaction has been typical for the most part.

So yeah, congratulations, Rupert, on being the first to call the "DEATH CULT ATTACK" and being the first there to report the bloody outcome.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Carbonox (and Rupert Murdoch, if you'reading this), why do you assume this guy was a terrorist?

A few months ago, the Adelaide CBD was shut down when a guy holed himself up in a brothel and took hostages. He was a convicted felon who, up until that moment, had been the subject of a manhunt after skipping out on his parole. His actions in taking hostages was a desperate, last-ditch move, and he ultimately took his own life.

Last year, Monis - the gunman in Sydney - was arrested as an accessory to murder. He claimed that the charge was bogus, a conspiracy between Australian and Iranian intelligence agencies to imprison him. Despite pleading guilty, he claimed that the arrest and trial were unconstitutional, and he lodged a series if appeals with the High Court. His very last appeal was rejected late on Friday.

So what's the more likely cause of this? An undisclosed affiliation with Islamic terror groups ... or a guy who snapped?

Also, Rupert, that's disgusting. Two people are dead, but all you care about is that you got there first.

 

[Carbonox]

Carbonox (and Rupert Murdoch, if you'reading this), why do you assume this guy was a terrorist?

A few months ago, the Adelaide CBD was shut down when a guy holed himself up in a brothel and took hostages. He was a convicted felon who, up until that moment, had been the subject of a manhunt after skipping out on his parole. His actions in taking hostages was a desperate, last-ditch move, and he ultimately took his own life.

Last year, Monis - the gunman in Sydney - was arrested as an accessory to murder. He claimed that the charge was bogus, a conspiracy between Australian and Iranian intelligence agencies to imprison him. Despite pleading guilty, he claimed that the arrest and trial were unconstitutional, and he lodged a series if appeals with the High Court. His very last appeal was rejected late on Friday.

So what's the more likely cause of this? An undisclosed affiliation with Islamic terror groups ... or a guy who snapped?

Also, Rupert, that's disgusting. Two people are dead, but all you care about is that you got there first.

I don't need to assume anything.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?f=57d4f4b981ab

And frankly, after this cowardly attack against Western civilization and values, playing it soft is absolutely the last thing I would do in an Australian citizen's shoes.

 

[Imari]

So what's the more likely cause of this? An undisclosed affiliation with Islamic terror groups ... or a guy who snapped?

From what I've been hearing on the news, it seems like the major motivator was that the guy was a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic basket. It looks terrorist-y because of his background, but if it had been random white European nutjob it would just have been another insane guy taking hostages.

This isn't terrorism, this is just a guy being a criminal (and a mental).

 

[kennylmao]

Wonder if he at least shouted a word of 'allahu akbar' during the whole thing.

So yeah, congratulations, Rupert, on being the first to call the "DEATH CULT ATTACK" and being the first there to report the bloody outcome.

lolwat. Did he say that?

Also, Rupert, that's disgusting. Two people are dead, but all you care about is that you got there first.

Ehh, rich people.

BTW, why is there even the need to display the black shahada flag? For self motivation?

 

[Johnnypenso]

So what's the more likely cause of this? An undisclosed affiliation with Islamic terror groups ... or a guy who snapped?

Why does it have to be one or the other? Likely a combination of both and more.

From what I've been hearing on the news, it seems like the major motivator was that the guy was a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic basket. It looks terrorist-y because of his background, but if it had been random white European nutjob it would just have been another insane guy taking hostages.

This isn't terrorism, this is just a guy being a criminal (and a mental).

If a white Euro nutjob held a bunch of people hostage and then asked them to hold up a Nazi flag, I'd call him a terrorist too wouldn't you? Nutjobs can also be terrorists, I don't think anyone thought Bin Laden had a full picnic basket either.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

lolwat. Did he say that?

Not Rupert himself, but it was printed on the front of one of the many newspapers he owns down here in Australia.

 

[Mike Rotch]

Genuinely sad news to wake up to, my heart goes out to the victims and their families.

The perp sounds like a nutjob; the legal authorities have some answers to give on why he was not in custody after failing in his last appeal. Bail should should not be an option after conviction and after appeals have been rejected.

 

[kennylmao]

@Cap'n Jack Oh, it was referring to IS... which is false isn't it? Still, that ain't good journalism.

 

[Imari]

If a white Euro nutjob held a bunch of people hostage and then asked them to hold up a Nazi flag, I'd call him a terrorist too wouldn't you? Nutjobs can also be terrorists, I don't think anyone thought Bin Laden had a full picnic basket either.

I dunno. It seems like "terrorism" has become a pretty catch-all term for just about anything these days.

For myself, I prefer to restrict it to crimes enacted specifically to gain political goals. For actual crazy people, that's almost never going to be the case because their perception of the world is so skewed that they're not working on the same assumptions as the rest of the world.

I've never seen any evidence to make me believe that Bin Laden was crazy. Had some pretty out there ideas on what was acceptable action to achieve his goals, but not crazy. I could be wrong, but someone would have to show me.

This guy Monis was convinced that he was under threat.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/2578107...rmed-police-storm-lindt-cafe-in-martin-place/

Keysar Trad, from the Islamic Friendship Association, said the siege was the "action of a nutter" which should not be linked to global terrorism.

Monis's former lawyer, Manny Conditsis, described his client's ideology as "so strong and so powerful that it clouds his vision for commonsense and objectiveness".

"Knowing that he was on bail for very serious offences, knowing that whilst he was in custody some terrible things happened to him, I thought he may consider that he has got nothing to lose, hence participating in something as desperate and outrageous as this," Mr Conditsis said.

"This is a one-off random individual. It's not a concerted terrorism event or act. It is a damaged-goods individual that has done something quite outrageous."

It's the grown-up equivalent of a school shooting, the action of someone who had nothing to lose and decided to go out with a bang. Maybe that's terrorism too, but to me there's a distinction between that and someone who rationally decides to die or kill to protect or enforce and actual ideology that is shared by more than just the one guy.

Taking hostages because "🤬 it, why not?" is different to taking hostages because you believe that your country and religion are being undermined by a foreign power. At least to me it is, even if you don't give it a different name.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

BTW, why is there even the need to display the black shahada flag? For self motivation?

Affirmation of his belief. Apparently he didn't really identify with any Muslim group, but still considered himself a Muslim. And there was the attempt at reaching out to IS - he wanted to make a political statement, which would nit have happened without the flag.

 

[NW48]

If anything, this sad outcome should make authorities in Australia wake up to themselves and stop being so soft on convicted felons. Letting someone as dangerous and unstable as him free on bail is absolutely insane. This will come back to bite the police on the you-know-what.

Also, the NYPD are apparently on 'high alert' following the Sydney Siege.
http://observer.com/2014/12/de-blasio-nypd-beefing-up-security-after-australian-hostage-crisis/

 

[HP]

Our prime minister loves using the term "Death Cult"... It's nearly his favourite saying after" Labors debt and deficit disaster".

PS, there are only a few people in this country that like him and that's his family and ministers... Everyone else is so embarrassed by him. I've still not met anyone that voted for him.

He's infuriating