How about touchscreens in cars

[McLaren]

Don't forget you have steering wheel buttons too. In my car I can change the radio station without looking at the radio or my wheel, simply by knowing how the info pops up.

Most cars with touchscreens these days also have steering wheel controls for major functions like volume, skipping tracks/scanning stations, that sort of thing, so you don't even need to take your hands off the wheel most of the time, let alone stare at a screen for ten seconds as you whizz along.

Nailed. It. Constant feature always ignored by these 2-3 guys who continue to believe cars are better when they were built as they were from the past.

 

[Mustangmiha]

Nailed. It. Constant feature always ignored by these 2-3 guys who continue to believe cars are better when they were built as they were from the past.

Past is something happened two seconds ago too, so you could say they're right.

 

[Slash]

Nailed. It. Constant feature always ignored by these 2-3 guys who continue to believe cars are better when they were built as they were from the past.

Just because new cars are better to you does not mean they are better to everyone else.

 

[McLaren]

Past is something happened two seconds ago too, so you could say they're right.

If you want get completely anal about the meaning of the word "past", sure. These guys however, constantly act like anything pre-1990 was perfect.

Just because new cars are better to you does not mean they are better to everyone else.

Only a MLP-hater or a Ford fan believes something like an old Mach 1 is better car than a 2015 5.0 in the overall build.

Build quality, safety, accessibility, reliability, etc. New cars are almost always better when you get down into the actual car & not whether the engines are downsizing or there's less mechanical knobs. For the most part, as the technology in them continues to advance & improve, so do the cars.

 

[Mustangmiha]

If you want get completely anal about the meaning of the word "past", sure. These guys however, constantly act like anything pre-1990 was perfect.

At the moment I can only think of Mercedes 190 that is more reliable than some of the today's cars. Pre-1990 cars in my opinion are pretty far from perfect. Sure, old Mustang can look cool and have sexy sound than the newest one but that's about it (try considering only the fuel efficiency).

 

[Slash]

If you want get completely anal about the meaning of the word "past", sure. These guys however, constantly act like anything pre-1990 was perfect.

Only a MLP-hater or a Ford fan believes something like an old Mach 1 is better car than a 2015 5.0 in the overall build.

Build quality, safety, accessibility, reliability, etc. New cars are almost always better when you get down into the actual car & not whether the engines are downsizing or there's less mechanical knobs. For the most part, as the technology in them continues to advance & improve, so do the cars.

I agree that they are better cars in general, but not as far as preferences go.

 

[McLaren]

I agree that they are better cars in general, but not as far as preferences go.

Preferences are a matter of opinion. However, it's a well known fact newer cars are better overall, not because they are all to me.

 

[Tornado]

Nailed. It. Constant feature always ignored by these 2-3 guys who continue to believe cars are better when they were built as they were from the past.

Of course, you're aware that modern cars being better/more convenient because of steering wheel controls is completely separate from whether modern cars are better/more convenient when they implement everything into touchscreens instead of allowing the use of buttons/knobs on the dash.


In fact, one could almost argue that the presence of physical buttons on the wheel negates the argument that physical buttons are superfluous.

 

[homeforsummer]

I would like to add that today car are made for a 10 year life spawn, the constructor cannot care less if the screen gonna die in 12 year, for them the car will be long time overused

That's something of a myth. There's little reason a well-maintained modern car cannot last as good as indefinitely - they're far better protected against rust than they used to be, and mechanically they're far better than they used to be (in terms of production tolerances, service intervals etc).

The "decade life" thing is more down to how people use cars these days - because modern cars are so competent at covering such distances with relatively little maintenance, people tend to abuse them a little more. It means a decade-old car can be looking pretty ropey, when an older one may well have been looked-after better. That, and it's all too easy to forget how few cars from decades gone by are left - people like to say "those old cars were built much better" but the numbers left on the roads are often incredibly low. Happens to all cars, really.

Funnily enough, the touchscreens of today are more likely to be useful in a decade's time than touchscreens of a decade ago, because today most in-car entertainment systems have been co-developed with technology companies - Apple, Android etc. They're designed to be updateable so they aren't rendered obsolete after a year.

 

[Wolfe]

Driven dozens of cars with touchscreens and with a few dishonourable exceptions, they aren't in the least bit distracting at night. Many dim the screens when you put the headlights on, and virtually all feature white-on-black graphics too, so it's not like there's a large white block shining back at you from the dash.

Relevant bits bolded:

...I dislike the idea of a big fat backlit screen in the dashboard, even if it turns off when unused. Both functionally and aesthetically.

I cannot think of anything worse than buying a cutting-edge electric vehicle like the Model S to find a dashboard full of buttons and knobs. It'd be like buying an iPod with a mechanical Walkman-style fast-forward button to press down.

That would be a cool iPod (better than dealing with the non-buttons on my iPod Touch). The Model S is obviously a luxury vehicle in addition to being an electric car, and luxury pretty much equates to "cutting-edge, whether it's practical or not."

Marketability aside, I'd design an electric car to be as spartan as possible, maximizing range and minimizing unnecessary energy consumption. That makes the most sense to me.

That's something of a myth. There's little reason a well-maintained modern car cannot last as good as indefinitely - they're far better protected against rust than they used to be, and mechanically they're far better than they used to be (in terms of production tolerances, service intervals etc).

On the other hand, down the road, there are more electronics and things to go wrong than a range-topping BMW or Mercedes-Benz from yesteryear. Some '90s cars (and not just luxury cars) offer their owners enough headaches already. Fancy tech almost always becomes a liability.

Ironically, this is a thing where used-car drivers are at the mercy of the desires of new-car buyers. I don't expect it to get any better.

 

[Joey D]

Ironically, this is a thing where used-car drivers are at the mercy of the desires of new-car buyers. I don't expect it to get any better.

Isn't that sort of the problem with used cars no matter what? You're always going to be at the "mercy" of what new vehicle buyers bought. Plus you won't have to worry about that for a very long time as touchscreens are still a rather expensive option.

 

[Wolfe]

@Joey D -- I didn't mean, "this is one thing where..."

What's ironic is how those of us who drive used cars have no real voice with regard to things that affect a car in its later years. It's a sub-point to the fact that we have essentially no say in what the industry does at all.

Plus you won't have to worry about that for a very long time as touchscreens are still a rather expensive option.

That particular point wasn't just about touchscreens.

 

[Joey D]

What's ironic is how those of us who drive used cars have no real voice with regard to things that affect a car in its later years. It's a sub-point to the fact that we have essentially no say in what the industry does at all.

You shouldn't have a say, purchasing used cars do nothing for the profitability of the automaker.

If you want a car that has the stuff you want, buy it new, if you are OK with sacrificing some preferred options for the sake of saving a chunk of money, then buy used.

 

[Harry6784]

What's ironic is how those of us who drive used cars have no real voice with regard to things that affect a car in its later years. It's a sub-point to the fact that we have essentially no say in what the industry does at all.

That particular point wasn't just about touchscreens.

Not always. Depending on the kind of car you drive, we can have a HUGE voice. That's the whole point of aftermarket parts. My 15 year Head Unit, for example sounded HORRIBLE but I liked design of the chunky buttons. I chose to replace it with a new flip out deck. Easily accessible buttons one minute and a navigation, pandora, dvd video, usb audio and sirus xm touchscreen the next. Not to mention that now my HU paired with my upgraded speakers and added sub sound better than most new luxury cars with the 'premium' sound option selected.

That's why aftermarket parts are made. To fill in the gaps and holes manufactures leave behind

 

[Wolfe]

You shouldn't have a say...

I said it was ironic, not that it was unfair. Is there a reason you're being combative?

...purchasing used cars do nothing for the profitability of the automaker.

I'm pretty sure that's why I already said used car buyers "have essentially no say in what the industry does at all."

If you want a car that has the stuff you want, buy it new, if you are OK with sacrificing some preferred options for the sake of saving a chunk of money, then buy used.

Are you just trying to push my buttons tap my touchscreen?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Hello folks, I'm searching for help for my thesis.
I need to find informations and images about the touchscreen displays in the dashboard of the cars produced during the past year (2013) and also in the present year.
If you know sites, magazines, or if you have direct informations...
Everything you know is accepted.
I have to build a sort of database of various models of cars by concentrate on the touchscreen and analyse functionalities, sizes, connections, graphics, usability...

Also if you have personal opinions and experiences feel free to explain

Thanks

Thesis for University or what?

 

[White & Nerdy]

Don't forget you have steering wheel buttons too. In my car I can change the radio station without looking at the radio or my wheel, simply by knowing how the info pops up.

Makes the wheel heavier & more complicated. I <3 light wheels.

 

[YSSMAN]

The only systems I know a bit about are the current GM units - Cadillac's CUE, Chevrolet's MyLink, and Buick's InteliLink (and whatever they're calling GMC's). All of the systems run GM's specially created software based on Linux. However, a lot of the hardware used by GM is pretty significantly out of date despite being a very recent addition to their vehicles. The systems use ARM11-based chips, made by NEC, and are roughly as powerful as what we would have seen back in 2009 with the iPhone 3G. The screen, while having capacitive features, are of lower screen resolution and are usually less-responsive compared to current-generation screens. I'm not sure if it has something to do with reliability and longevity, or if it is just general penny-pinching. The system works pretty well, but it isn't nearly as good as the uConnect system used by Chrysler, and isn't any better or worse than what you'd find in the MyFordTouch systems.

I think, in general, people would probably classify the infotainment hierarchy as such:

1. Audi MMI - Seems to be universally recognized as the absolute best, similar systems from BMW (iDrive) and Mercedes (Command) being on similar footing
2. Fiat-Chrysler uConnect - Reasonably intuitive, good response, easily adaptable and super cheap
3. Tesla - Near enough a giant iPad for your car. Can't get any easier than that
4. Kia UVO - As I understand it, Kia's riff on what is basically Ford Sync underneath is really, really, really good
5. Ford Sync/MyFordTouch - Updates make it better, apparently, but still iffy for some people comared to others
6. GM's CUE/MyLink/InteliLink/Etc - As I understand it, Chevrolet's MyLink is the strongest of the suit, not sure what the actual differences are
7. Honda - Simple, apparently, makes Honda's easier. We'll see how much better it will be with Apple's new suite added this year

 

[McLaren]

Makes the wheel heavier & more complicated. I <3 light wheels.

Can't tell if funniest or dumbest idea I've read from you.

 

[Joel]

Makes the wheel heavier & more complicated. I <3 light wheels.

Wrapping a wheel in leather adds more weight than 4 plastic buttons.

Although I'm sure leather wrapped wheels are for pinko brony socialists.

 

[White & Nerdy]

@McLaren How you mean that?

 

[Joel]

How you mean that?

That if you actually think that steering wheel controls add noticeable weight to a steering wheel you are beyond delusional, even by your standards.

 

[niky]

Steering wheel controls weigh very little and don't add appreciable weight to the steering action itself.

In all my years of driving, I have never driven two identical cars back-to-back, one with steering controls, one without (and I've done this dozens of times), and said: "I prefer the one without controls. It feels lighter."

I'll complain about electric power steering. I'll complain about tires that are too wide or too narrow. I'll complain about cars with poor caster and self-centering. I'll complain about nasty, fake "stiction" that makes un-natural feeling steering even worse... but I'll never complain about the extra weight of steering controls. Simply because it's something you would never, ever, in a million pedantic years, notice.

-

Touchscreens are alternatively horrible and great. I don't think many can get worse than the early MyFordTouch, which was fiddly, confusing, crowded, overladen with redundant submenus and about as responsive as a Congressional probe into the effectiveness of pork barrel funds.

But just last weekend, I had a go with Honda's latest try. Honda is so confident in its new touchscreen controls that this car has no physical climate control buttons. Not even the "pretend" ones like on the Ford Explorer dashboard.

Even without buzzing "haptic" feedback, it's mondo responsive, and flicking up and down through the temperature and fan settings is easier than on some physical push-button set-ups.

I still prefer more intuitively fuzzy dial-type controls, but some of these new systems aren't bad at all. If I had my way, all I'd ask for is at least six reconfigurable buttons/dials to allow you to access common commands with a single touch.

 

[homeforsummer]

That would be a cool iPod (better than dealing with the non-buttons on my iPod Touch). The Model S is obviously a luxury vehicle in addition to being an electric car, and luxury pretty much equates to "cutting-edge, whether it's practical or not."

Marketability aside, I'd design an electric car to be as spartan as possible, maximizing range and minimizing unnecessary energy consumption. That makes the most sense to me.

It's a context thing though. The Model S is a car with, according to the EPA, up to 265 miles of range.

A touchscreen takes very little energy to power. More than there not being one at all, of course, but I think you're being a little harsh with the "whether it's practical or not" comment since that touchscreen allows users to plan where the next Supercharger quick-charge station is, for example. And being so large it also rather offsets the small missable buttons argument - when a full half of the screen can be dedicated to the climate control the usable area is about four times the size of your average grouping of HVAC knobs and switches.

Anyway, on energy consumption I'd imagine even a massive one like in the Model S isn't a particularly big draw, certainly not compared to something like the car's headlights or the heating system itself.

And then it all goes back to the "cutting-edge" thing, since I suspect most buyers would be a bit disappointed if they'd bought one of the most advanced cars on the road to find a selection of heating and radio knobs from some parts bin somewhere (probably Daimler, given the two companies' connection).

On the aesthetic thing, that's obviously personal preference. But to me they're really no less aesthetic than myriad little-used buttons filling the dashboard.

On the other hand, down the road, there are more electronics and things to go wrong than a range-topping BMW or Mercedes-Benz from yesteryear. Some '90s cars (and not just luxury cars) offer their owners enough headaches already. Fancy tech almost always becomes a liability.

I feel like this is a subject that's massively overplayed, too.

Yes, some electronic gadgets can be a pain in the arse. Buying anything French from the 90s and early 2000s with lots of toys is a nightmare. But then (much as I love French cars), cars from that country have never been particularly great on that sort of thing.

But let's look at it logically - cars with ECUs have been around for decades now. And how often does that ECU itself goes wrong? If an electronic injection car is doing something wrong it's typically the fault of physical objects somewhere in the fuel or ignition system (or simple, been-around-forever mechanical parts in the engine), rather than the electronic brain.

You can still buy a Mercedes from the 1980s whose electric windows sail up and down without issue. You can still buy a Lexus LS400 from 1990 in which every single interior feature works as it did when new. As I mentioned to someone else a few posts ago, the digital display in my Honda still works as it did when it left the factory. No dropped pixels or liquid crystal issues at 13 years old, and there's little reason that should change.

Essentially, if you pay for quality then you get quality back. An early Ford SYNC system will still be crap in 20 years because it's crap today. But the system in say, a modern Lexus GS, is no more likely to go wrong a few decades down the line than the car itself is.

So with respect, "Fancy tech almost always becomes a liability" sounds more like something someone who doesn't like fancy tech in the first place would say to justify its absence, than it is speaking from experience.

But just last weekend, I had a go with Honda's latest try. Honda is so confident in its new touchscreen controls that this car has no physical climate control buttons. Not even the "pretend" ones like on the Ford Explorer dashboard.

Peugeot's new 308 is the same. Has one rotating knob on the dash, and a few important buttons (hazard flashers, screen demist etc) for major functions, but everything else is contained within the touchscreen, with function submenus to the side - heating, radio, navigation etc.

Now apropos of my comments to Wolfe above concerning tech in French cars it remains to be seen how well it stands up to the passing of time, but in terms of functionality it's very good indeed. You can see the HVAC screen in the image above - big, obvious buttons that aren't at all difficult to use, and obviously tidy up the dashboard no end.

I still prefer more intuitively fuzzy dial-type controls, but some of these new systems aren't bad at all. If I had my way, all I'd ask for is at least six reconfigurable buttons/dials to allow you to access common commands with a single touch.

Honestly, this describes me too. I can understand the arguments of those who prefer physical buttons to touchscreens, but some of the modern touchscreens are far better than some here are giving them credit for. And far less "distracting" than people are making out.

Though again, I reckon in the average modern car, if you still wanted a simplistic look, you could get away with three, dual-function knobs. Imagined on the Peugeot dash above there'd be another two to sit alongside the offset knob on the dash, next to what looks like a CD slot but is actually just a styled metal strip. Anyway...

You have a button there that selects between HVAC and stereo controls. So depending on which of those is selected, the three knobs either do heat/fan speed/air direction, or volume/skip/tuner. Or something. Every other little-used function could be incorporated into a screen, which incidentally could show the current function so you're aware what the knobs are doing.

I think the Nissan Juke already has something fairly similar with its buttons. A switch selects between either HVAC or driving modes, and the buttons change accordingly.

 

[niky]

Thinking about it, yes, three would do.

Lexus has an interesting way forward for control knobs... the GS has a puck that has haptic feedback in the form of button "detents"... as you scroll the puck around, you can feel it fall into pits when the on-screen cursor alights on a button... so if you're familiar with the menu, you can reach oft-used functions simply by feel.

Veeeery nice system.

Merc's COMAND has a radio screen that looks like a multi-face old-time radio, with all currently reachable channels highlighted... this makes channel surfing incredibly intuitive. Much easier to use by feel than anything else.

Still, can't deny that these systems are a distraction... the cleverer the system, the more you're encouraged to play with it. And the best ones mix touch and physical controls. A full touch interface, I think, will only be superior if it includes the false buttons (with haptic feedback) Ford uses, but with the more efficient back-end Ford is moving to (Blackberry, I think?), which separates threads for running processes, to minimize the lag involved in MFT operation.

Should be more durable (and hopefully... waterproof) than actual spring-loaded buttons... but I don't see it happening for a long time, yet.

 

[homeforsummer]

Lexus has an interesting way forward for control knobs... the GS has a puck that has haptic feedback in the form of button "detents"... as you scroll the puck around, you can feel it fall into pits when the on-screen cursor alights on a button... so if you're familiar with the menu, you can reach oft-used functions simply by feel.

Veeeery nice system.

I agree, I really like the Lexus system. But you'd be shocked how many UK journos can't stand it.

Still, can't deny that these systems are a distraction... the cleverer the system, the more you're encouraged to play with it.

I'm not really so sure.

Maybe it's that I don't really play with in-car toys that much anyway. Or maybe I'm just not predisposed to being distracted by stuff like that. But typically, on the move, the only things I'll ever change are flicking between say, radio and an auxiliary device like my phone, or changing the temperature.

Whether I do either of those things with physical buttons or not is largely irrelevant to me as long as it's easy. Much as I love Volvo's interiors, I find the current smattering of buttons on Volvo centre consoles far less intuitive and more distracting than most touchscreens I've used - not least because touchscreens tend to be positioned high-up on the dash, whereas most manufacturers put heating and stereo controls low down on the console, below vents etc.

Here's the V40:

Now I don't know about anyone else here, but I'd quite happily sacrifice that complicated system of buttons and knobs for a larger, higher-mounted touchscreen*.

Really though, if my phone hooks up immediately and I can listen to the music I have on it through the car, that's the extent of how much I play about with the various functions. And if I can get vaguely the right temperature and fan speed then again, the touchscreen's work is done.

I've not yet used a truly unfathomable touchscreen that requires constant attention to make it do as I wish, but arguably any driver that distracted by a screen in the centre of the dashboard is probably a liability whether that screen is there or not. It's not really an interface problem as such, more a user problem...



* I can already forsee the responses to that - i.e. "we'd not need as many buttons in the first place if cars had fewer features". That's true, but I cannot be arsed to open that can of worms with GTP's luddites so I'll just say that we'll agree to disagree on the comfort and convenience features in modern cars.

 

[Famine]

Peugeot's new 308 is the same. Has one rotating knob on the dash, and a few important buttons (hazard flashers, screen demist etc) for major functions, but everything else is contained within the touchscreen, with function submenus to the side - heating, radio, navigation etc.

That strikes me as a poor idea when it comes to the car being a reasonable ownership prospect secondhand and outside its warranty period. It'd write the car off if it failed - and it's an electronic feature on a Peugeot...

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Can't tell if funniest or dumbest idea I've read from you.

He is too use to cars that have just a wheel and probably not even a functioning air bag. That's if the used car lot didn't pull it out and decide to charge him extra for a "luxury"

 

[homeforsummer]

That strikes me as a poor idea when it comes to the car being a reasonable ownership prospect secondhand and outside its warranty period. It'd write the car off if it failed - and it's an electronic feature on a Peugeot...

Yeah, as above, that's my worry with it being French. But it's such an integral feature of the car I'd be surprised if they didn't spend more time developing it than they did the car itself.

Also, I guess it depends how it failed as to how expensive it'd be to fix. A software reboot isn't a major expense, for example. If you somehow managed to crack the screen, that might be more of a problem.

 

[Tornado]

I see Slash & his mentor are in here spewing more "my way" posts with still no experience.

This isn't the early century, these systems have gotten better by leaps & bounds.

Nailed. It. Constant feature always ignored by these 2-3 guys who continue to believe cars are better when they were built as they were from the past.

Can't tell if funniest or dumbest idea I've read from you.

I see that, in lieu of actually defending a point, "lol White and Nerdy you're so stupid" is assumed to be close enough to one. You should go back to having an avatar.