How Can the Next Gran Turismo Help People Appreciate Cars?

[JohnBM01]

GTPlanet, here's a concern I have when it comes to Gran Turismo games. Gran Turismo helped me understand cars more. I remember that I hated the Mini Cooper. I hated to compete in a One-Make race with a car that was completely slow. I can recall in all the One-Make events I've competed in Gran Turismos 2 and 4. I didn't have to like the car, I just had to race it to get acquainted to the car's performance numbers and statistics. I missed it in GT4, but the Info on the cars was amazing. Even the Daihatsu Midget was told to have stats about it that could put sports cars to shame. The Subaru 360 was described as a "go-kart." While slow to start in GT2, you had to remember that not all cars in the 1960s were 3500 lb. V8-powered, 5000+ cc engines. These were more unique, if slow. I've always thought Gran Turismo games were about (1) racing the cars you want to race that are available in the game, (2) getting acquainted with new cars to expand your love of automobiles, and (3) modify the car so you can make it YOUR dream car. To me, this is all I ever want out of Gran Turismo games. I don't ask for all sorts of things or every noticable detail. A lot of the cars I don't really like, I had garnered newfound respect for most cars. Most recent car I had greater respect for- the Ford Mustang. I didn't think with tuning that the Ford Mustang would really blow me away on the track, especially the latest Mustang GT.

GTPlanet, this is yet another opinions thread on Gran Turismo. This thread is only lightly related to the game itself, but the highlight is heavily on how the next Gran Turismo can help in helping you appreciate certain automobiles more. Being the sort of outside-the-box thinker I try to be, I want all sorts of stuff mentioned. Things like the following- does Gran Turismo help broaden the perspective of automobiles? Is the Gran Turismo series actually doing enough to get fans into other cars without feeling like they are "forced" to racing certain cars that people normally dislike? Is there an intermediary between being a fan of economy cars and sport compacts, apart froma fan being into only sports cars? What can be done to broaden the perspective on automobiles in Gran Turismo games, especially the next installment of GT? Can we establish middle ground between sports car fans and economy car fans with Gran Turismo games? If not, how can be come dangerously close to having people appreciate certain cars in the game from a Daihatsu Move to a Saleen S7? Sound off at will. Let the games begin.

 

[McLaren]

Unfornately, kids already stupid enough with cars. They don't need to learn how to appreciate slow cars, they need to learn how to understand how a car actually works.

People these days a good enough with dreaming about cars and appreciating the cars they own. Its these the stupid-ass kids from 13-17 who want to "pimp
their ride" without understanding the effects on the car.

And the ones who actually tune their cars...are even stupider. To explain that to all of you could easily be summed up in about 2-3 sentences.

 

[niky]

I don't think that's a bridgeable gap... there are too many poeple out there who pick up a game merely to get to the fastest cars available. Sports car and sport compact lovers (as opposed to super-car lovers, as most modern sports cars are in the same league as supercars of a decade ago) might take the time to try their hand at pushing a Datsun 510 to its limits, or appreciate the nuances in driving an Alpina or a Kei-Car. Those at the other end of the spectrum don't love the challenge... they just love the speed.

GT should broaden the appeal but it doesn't. Part of the allure of economy cars and sports compacts is the ability to be as one with your machine, the feeling of connection with the road that the modern super cars and uber-sedans sadly lack. And until a video game can simulate that more realistically (GT4 does it better than games of old... but it's not enough), guys on the other side of the horsepower fence will never learn to appreciate it.

I've always thought that if GT5 had a much wider swath of vehicles to choose from, it might entice people to try things they've never tried before... but GT4 already has a lot more cars than GT3, and most people are still playing with the same 20 or so cars that they played with in GT3. Pity. Unless GT5 is so easy that anyone can finish it quickly, I don't see a lot of people trying out cars they've never heard of without feeling forced into it and selling those cars in disgust right after finishing the series they are entered in.

 

[Mad Murphy NZ]

I really love the lower powered sports cars GT4 has to offer. It's nice to drive a car to its limits while still having control. I know GT4 offers lots of Japanese sports cars but I'd like to see more classic British sports cars and such in GT5. What I really miss is the info on the history of the cars that older GT games had, you know, that scrolls along the bottom when you highlight the car. What was cool that I remember from back in the dark old days of racing games in NFS: Special Edition it gave you heaps of info on the cars with model history and pictures and videos of the cars. For me, supercars and such in GT have always been just a way to win the harder races and get more money to have fun with some real cars.

 

[niky]

That's something... it really sucks not to get even a two paragraph info blurb on any of the cars in the game... it's part of what made driving in previous GTs so special... you felt like you OWNED a garage full of real cars instead of just a collection of driving machines.

 

[JohnBM01]

So many of you don't think that we're actually seeing an intermediary between racing a powerful car and then a weaker car. Two of the less-powerful cars I had fun with were the vintage Honda S800 Race Car, and then the Mini Cooper. I think some GT gamers liked that there were newer Minis, but not the classic Minis. But I really enjoyed the Honda S800 Race Car. As soon as you start winning races with it, you can take it to the small car races. The car is a front-engined go-kart to me. I loved it. Every now and then, I do race a Mini around. I remember watching a vintage Mini racing against much bigger cars in the Goodwood Revival one year. I think there were big Vauxhalls and all, but to see a Mini mix it up with those bigger cars was pretty cool.

I haven't played "Enthusia Professional Racing," but when I seen some of the cars in the game, I think the game tried to expand on all sorts of vehicles you can race. You can race anything from Austin Healey Sprites to a Smart all the way up to the Team Goh Audi R8s. I'll admit that I normally want to be the fastest thing on track, even if I don't have the right car to scratch that itch. I even thought it was cool racing those two Daimlers from 1886. Never beofre has a racing game delved that deep into the automobile's history. Many people hated the two Daimlers, but to me, if you don't respect the Daimlers from the 19th Century, then face it. You are NOT a car person. You only want to go fast, faster, and fastest. That's fine with me. But, there are other cars you can respect. Like my boy "98Cobra." He likes the Mustangs, but even he admitted that he kind of liked Lancers.

This is usually tough to answer, but is Gran Turismo about high-speed all the time? To many, it is. I think Gran Turismo is about the only game series which makes racing a less powerful car still be as fun as a sports car. I think Gran Turismo games make it possible for less-powerful cars to still be as fun as the bigtime sportscars, but I think it all begins with the game player. Will he/she bring themselves to actually appreciating a car for what it is rather than for high-speed thrills? High-speed is fun, but one has to remember that not every car is a sports car. Not every car is a supercar. There are still practical cars that may not be very fast. That's true for Suzuki, Daihatsu, and almost any other Kei car. I think people have to bring themselves to appreciating all cars and not feel like being FORCED into racing certain cars in a game. That's what I think, how about you? Carry on.

 

[puppeteer]

forget a paragraph of text..

GT5 should have clarkson and the rest of the top gear team narrate a 10 minutes mini-documentary about each car (or type of car).
using the game engine rather than live action, but with the same enthusiasm and excitement..

the old NFS games used to have some sweet live action clips to get you in the mood...

 

[JohnBM01]

Okay. My favorite NFS, believe it or not, is "Need for Speed 2:SE." It featured cars such as the McLaren F1, Ferrari F50, Ford Indigo (best handling car in the game), Ferrari 355 F1, Lotus Elise GT1, Jaguar XJ220, and plenty others. The arcade feel is exquisite. Then too, it's nice to see some of the sexy cars in action. If you haven't played NFS2:SE, get that Need for Speed Collection, which is basically a five-pack of games including NFS2:SE, NFS3, NFS High Stakes, NFS Porsche Unleashed, and NFS Hot Pursuit 2.

Let's say that the next GT featured 1,000 cars. I am not real confident about how many different videos can be done on each car with the space the PS3's disks may contain, but it may be impossible for every single car to have a video about it. What I think can be done, however, is to maybe load some screens showing different views of the car. On top of that, feature an AI driver get into the car, and race around a track. Either that or show a bunch of scenes with the car on California coastline roads or something. I don't mind reading. I don't think a small movie can be made on every car like in NFS games. Every Gran Turismo game has more cars than NFS games. The majority of the cars in NFS games are pure sports cars and concepts.

I think Gran Turismo's paragraphs of text are actually pretty interesting. Hey, I don't mind reading. Anyone else care to show off their ideas on how to help us appreciate cars more in a Gran Turismo game? And how do you feel about people saying that we are sometimes "forced" to racing certain cars in the game?

 

[Slicks]

I completely agree that the text paragraphs should be brought back.
Another thing that will help me (and surely other people) respect the cars, is to make them accurate as possible. This has been a sore point with me in GT4, mainly with the American V8 powered cars, which I know best. Numerous cars have the wrong sound, and wrong power band/torque curve. They often put a mid or low-grade motor in the car, (good example being the '70(??) Corvette, where they put in a 350. Were they even aware that that car was available with both a 454 and a 427? So why put in a 350?
Something that could encourage the players to use a slower (read: lower power) car for a change would be to offer a bonus (Say... 20%) for winning a race in a car that is equal to or worse than the competition. This would hopefully encourage slower cars to be used, and would also place a greater emphasis on driving skill, instead of putting a stage 4 turbo/tune up on a car and blowing the doors off the competition.

 

[Mad Murphy NZ]

Bring back horsepower restrictions as per previous GT games. That was a good way of keeping things fair.

 

[niky]

And would force people to buy cars in the right power bracket. ... whoops, that's why they hate the slow cars in the first place... ...but I think the hp restriction is a MUST.

 

[RedWolfRacer]

I live for challenges. I've found that I prefer the close race to the run-away win. In fact, today I came to my closes win margin to date: a -0'00.000 win!!!! In the Mini Cooper one-make race.

Typically I drive RX-7s, Vipers, Lancers and Zs. Not terribly unique is it? I learned in GT3--back when I consider myself "young" though I am only 17--that power isn't everything. I'd put massive power into all my cars and expect it to be fine. Then I found all my cars had massive oversteer (why I consider myself young then). Back then, though I was a skilled driver, had very little tuning experience or savvy (sp?). It took me a year to learn this all over again after GT1 and 2 had all been forgotten in my quest for power in GT3. I'd always loved cars and learned them anew with new respect.

I played almost every day for three years or so learning only the tracks and cars and how they felt. I still did not tune very well and still lack precision on par with d2 or d1 WRS drivers with a DS2, but I've learned the nuances of all the GT3 courses and many cars. I'd intentionally de-tune some cars to compete. After a while I revisited some of the earlier races and re-raced with stock cars plus an oil change. I fell in love with the game all over again! lol It was challenging now! I'd have to take smooth lines unlike with my tuned RX-7 LM or 787B or whatever. With the Miata and other cars, I now had to DRIVE and drive WELL!

After getting 98.9 percent completion (scratched disc), I ran stock cars at Complex String until GT4 came out. I'm dissappointed by GT4's competition, though. There is always ONE cpu car that outdoes the rest. I'm forced to compete against one driver instead of five now with few exceptions.

Though with GT2, I loved to read the information on each car and gain a new understanding and respect for each one. I think discarding this in GT4 brought the focus back onto the car itself rather than it's history. I'm not sure that's either positive or negative.

I think newfound respect would be earned with a truly realistic physics engine, and details about the car itself. I think knowing about the machine and not the man behind it's design is what matters--not to belittle the likes of Carol Shelby, mind you! I feel cars are engineering marvels and should be treated as such.

This new trend of people in my age group (16-20 some odd) tuning cars is shameful. I laugh at all the tuner cars I see. They are terribly common around here; the sound of late-night races are common on weekends and even Wednesday night sometimes. I understand wanting to customize your car but when it is simply for your sake and no the car's, there is something to be said about one's egotism. I hope GT5 can play this down and focus on the real effects of bad tuning, i.e. overlowering all but destroying your car.

 

[JohnBM01]

Texas' own Caroll Shelby. Actually, I think if you want restrictions, I think Sega GT had one of the more recognizable elements. Get this. In Sega GT, you can make your car as powerful as you want, but there is one element that cannot be modified heavily- engine displacement. When I played the PC version of "Sega GT," I could modify my car to any extent, but depending on engine displacement, if I exceed the limits, I cannot enter that race. No matter how powerful your car may be, engine displacement almost never changes unless a Displacement Up upgrade is given. Since I'm more accustomed to Cubic Centimeters of displacement, I'd keep it at cubic centimeters than cubic inches. There would be a problem with this. If the limit for cubic displacement is 2000cc for a certain race, then you'd have to make the options wide open for muscle cars. I've seen muscle cars with displacements usually well over 2000cc. So they'll have to go all-out with that.

Appreciating cars by means of the next Gran Turismo will be an interesting objective. Speaking in defense of Polyphony Digital and Kazunori Yamauchi, you simply don't include 700 cars in a game, and not accomplish a task of helping people understand and appreciate cars. That other thread talking about wanting fewer cars and add in better cars, to me, defeats the purpose of having all those cars in the game in the first place. Do you want to go fast all the time, or do you want to race in a diversified amount of automobiles? One of my favorite cars in GT4 isn't a car at all. It's a truck- the Toyota Tacoma. I lightened it to just over 3,000 lbs (when converted from kg. to lbs.). With some extra modifications, it is a car, and I had newfound respect for this machine. But the first-first ever pickup in a Gran Turismo game? Heard of the Daihatsu Midget D-Type (Gran Turismo 2)? That's right. The slowest race in Gran Turismo history was in GT games before the bigtime trucks came into the series. Yes, before the Rams, before the Tacomas (I'm still waiting to see that Toyota Tacoma Pikes Peak in a GT game), there was the super-slow Daihatsu Midget D-Type in GT2. And it made its return to GT4.

Appreication of automobiles is an uphill battle, but you are free to suggest how the next GT should be able to help people appreciate cars.

 

[McLaren'sAngel]

Hiya! Meow! (='.'=)

I think that trying to get people to appreciate cars is quite difficult. It seems that every teen out their interested in cars like to use the BIG reputational cars to make themselves look better than those who have something less. We can use the Skyline as an example from the import side. Like every import fans want that car soooo bad and don't pay attention to the other lesser cars. (this can also be applied to RX-7, Supra TT, Evo VIII too.) When they don't pay attention to the lesser cars, they won't care if the company stop making that car or it get some new changes. This kind of behavior is then brought to Gran Turismo and they will reflect the same way they feel about certain cars in real life.

It is VERY difficult for cars such as econoboxes, low HP, or slow moving car to get the attention of these people who love the cars that attracts attention...even cops... Kids these days are too much into getting attention from the opposite sex and trying to look so rich and popular with these sport cars and such. They too even reflect that whn they play GT. They will want to find the fastest way to be able to obtain that car they want while spending less time with cars they don't care about.

I personally think that it will be impossible for people to appreciate cars they never notice or like. As long as these teens ego for being popular with their peers are there, they will always use it on everything such as games and art to express themselves. PD simply can't make people appreciate cars, but can only make them love the car they want even more.

 

[General Gravy]

actually, I am only a kid, yet I bascially understand what most other car enthusiasts do.

Then again, I learned from my brother.

 

[RedWolfRacer]

I agree with much of what has been said prior and after my post. Younger kids care only about power and speed, not so much control or history. As we know, without control or knowledge of your car, power is nothing outside of a straightline. Even then, control--or the lack thereof--can destroy you. I think that punishment may make a player respect his vehicle more than before, but at what cost to gameplay?

I think to make people respect cars, people must fear them at a point. Cars can be docile things if driven responsibly. If not, they are extremely dangerous. I think GT5 could make people respect cars by driving "responsibly". That is careful tuning and a STEEP learning curve--one that is realistic to the highest degree--will force the driver to pay attention and respect his vehicle.

Of course, I am sure there are other ways to achieve this means, but this is one way that I see.

 

[FWA2500]

i love racing.....auto racing....air racing.....the works.....
that said, i love speed....but not the blind strait line speed that you see too much in this country, i like speed that come in doses just enough to get your heart pumping, but just small enough to leave you craving more......i cant stand "ricers" or people who think slapping a wing and a coffee can muffler on a car makes it fast.....

in order for people to apriciate cars they must first understand that they are not "just machines".......people who have driven for a long time will tell you that cars seem to have personalities, and that they should be treated with respect........when you push a car too hard, it reacts by refusing to cooperate (much like a little child) but when you treat it nice, it does anything you want.......i think people should be able to feel that relationship with the car in GT5......

also, if there is a damage model in GT5, you should have to pay realistic prices to repair the car, that way we wont have people bashing just for the hell of it (would probly still happen from people with loads of credits though) and would also make you really try to drive..........

 

[McLaren'sAngel]

Hiya! Meow! (='.'=)

I am going to wait until FWA2500 finish his post 👍 I think its going to be good like everyone else!

 

[shawtyoner]

I definitley appreciate gran turismo for the respect that i have for cars now after first playing GT years ago. It made me realize what driving a car was all about. I have learned so much from playing GT. I watch my friends come over and play, and i just sit there and listen to them badmouth everything about the game because they cant understand why a skyline cant take the first turn at Tskuba doing 120mph!!! They are absolutely ignorant when it comes to simulation as opposed to driving a game like NFSU! I am still learning alot, and i hope PD continues to promote this in the future.

 

[RedWolfRacer]

I definitley appreciate gran turismo for the respect that i have for cars now after first playing GT years ago. It made me realize what driving a car was all about. I have learned so much from playing GT. I watch my friends come over and play, and i just sit there and listen to them badmouth everything about the game because they cant understand why a skyline cant take the first turn at Tskuba doing 120mph!!! They are absolutely ignorant when it comes to simulation as opposed to driving a game like NFSU! I am still learning alot, and i hope PD continues to promote this in the future.

You said it better. lol That's what I was getting at with my schpeil in so many words.

 

[FWA2500]

updated my previous post