How Damage Should Be Implemented (And thus improving online)

[BlackedoutRX7LM]

Ok so i know we are still a ways away from full damage in online races but we're all hoping for it come GT5. I was thinking about it, and its absolutely necessary to have damage online to prevent rammers and such.

A while back i had Need For Speed Porsche Unleashed, which was i believe a PS1 game. I havent played much NFS since, because, well they all suck, but the damage system in NFSPU was excellent. Every little amount of damage incurred during a race would have to be fixed after the race, and paid for from your earnings. I was pretty young back then, so in games like GT1 i would bang into cars and ride walls to gain position, but this game really got me to stop and drive a more realistic line. I think this system is perfect for GT5 because people will be hesitant to bang their cars around, knowing they will have to pay for the damage as well as players will try to avoid being rammed even more.

Now the only problem is what happens after someone gets 75% or so through the game and they have a ton of cash? They won't care what happens to their car will they? Well first off, i think there has to be a different price rate of damage. For example, to fix an Integra is pretty damn cheap, but to fix, say an Audi R10, well that could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. So when you progress and have cash, you're more likely to be driving the fast, more expensive cars meaning the damage to cash ratio is relative to when you're first starting out and have barely any cash to spare on something like replacement parts.

Im not sure about this last idea, but another way to discourage those when tons of credits to spare, is to allow totaling of the car. Now this is rather dangerous, because what happens if the accident is of no fault of your own? However, it's likely that if your car is totaled so is the other persons, so again this should limit the intentional ramming. Think about those cars that you have to pay $4.5 million or you can only win in endurance races, do you think someone is really going to want to replace that? I doubt many will, so people will be extremely cautious when racing (as real race drivers are).

So what do you all think? Feel free to contribute your own suggestions.

 

[Gashlycrumb]

What happens if you end up with someone entering in a much cheaper car with the express purpose of crashing into and writing off others' more expensive cars? I would be mightily annoyed if someone wrote off a car I had worked very hard on at no fault of my own. Maybe if you had to pay for damage you caused? Either way I think online mode will be vastly improved once you can host your own races and limit who enters.

 

[BlackedoutRX7LM]

Well i don't see how you can't have class racing, because what is the point of matching a stock street car versus an LM car?

 

[amar212]

This thread will be classic.

 

[zealit]

A good way to prevent online jerks imo would be a points system that keep track of your good driving. You get points for completing clean races and you lose points when you are responsible in a collision. This way, damage doesnt need to be implemented (I still hope they implement it) and bad drivers can easily be spotted and kicked from games before starting one. They would need to polish the actual collision system to make sure to not penalize ppl that are not responsible for a collision.

 

[Fluke]

yeah, thats an awesome idea, they should have some sort of moderator watching the race as a spectator or something and then they can catch them red handed and ban them, though im not sure wether or not this would be technically possible?

 

[GordonS]

A good way to prevent online jerks imo would be a points system that keep track of your good driving. You get points for completing clean races and you lose points when you are responsible in a collision. This way, damage doesnt need to be implemented (I still hope they implement it) and bad drivers can easily be spotted and kicked from games before starting one. They would need to polish the actual collision system to make sure to not penalize ppl that are not responsible for a collision.

This sounds good, but this could be also very hazardous for average player´s reputation. I have to remind that every one could be "The Master of Disaster" when starting to learn racing or just trying new game for himself/herself. So it had to be so, for example, that ONLY your "idiotism points account" would clear off lets say at the beginning of every month. Ofcourse, if a player would be a pure jerk and would race only for kill on the track, the player´s PSN-id would be remembered.

 

[amar212]

A good way to prevent online jerks imo would be a points system that keep track of your good driving. You get points for completing clean races and you lose points when you are responsible in a collision. This way, damage doesnt need to be implemented (I still hope they implement it) and bad drivers can easily be spotted and kicked from games before starting one. They would need to polish the actual collision system to make sure to not penalize ppl that are not responsible for a collision.

Are you guilty for kicking someone on braking point if you were kicked by someone else second before?

Are you guilty for collision if you were caught into one without any reason?

Are you guilty for going backwards on track if you were actually going backwards when nobody was on that part of that track in order to recover from spin?

Are you guilty for cutting the chicane if you were pushed by other car inside of chicane?

Are you guilty for qiutting out of the 50 lap race because you were hard-fighting with soomeone for 4th postion in 13th lap and your tyres on green, when some overlapped idiot kicked you in the sandtrap and shouted in your ears "looser" before histerical smiling?

There is no "system" to judge who is clean driver. Only the praxis can show that, and then forming the clubs. Even the "reputation" points that could be given by other players often wouldn't mean anything because many people would still exploit that system.

Unfotunately, only the clubbing between known racers will secure 99% clean racing. Other "systems" will just bring sadness, misery and pain.

 

[daan]

Unfotunately, only the clubbing between known racers will secure 99% clean racing. Other "systems" will just bring sadness, misery and pain.

👍

I don't want the game to decide automatically what is right and what is wrong, because it will get it wrong. All that is required is the ability to set passwords on the host, and the ability to only invite friends/trusted racers.

 

[hairyboid4]

i think the best and safet idea would be to make the player pay for damage. the points system could be very tricky to pull off seeing that someone could hit you and then you accidently are bumped into someone else...etc. which would make you lose points that you dont REALLY deserve to lose.

therefore the damage system would probably be PD's safest bet(not to mention more realistic)

 

[Flerbizky]

There is no "system" to judge who is clean driver. Only the praxis can show that, and then forming the clubs. Even the "reputation" points that could be given by other players often wouldn't mean anything because many people would still exploit that system.

Please Amar - NO-ONE would be low enough to exploit a rep-system.
[/sarcasm]

 

[Rocket Punch]

Why such elaborate system?? All PD need to do is to give us the ability to host private rooms and the ability to blacklist and kick F-tards.

BY the way, PD, Its 2008. FFS can we have the technology of in game txt chat already? or do we have to wait until GT6 in 2015?

 

[hairyboid4]

Why such elaborate system?? All PD need to do is to give us the ability to host privte rooms and the ability to blacklist and kick F-tards.

BY the way, PD, Its 2008. FFS can we have the technology of in game chat already? or do we have to wait until GT6 in 2015?

that would definately work too

lol

but chatting while driving could be difficult unless you have a headset(which some of us don't)

 

[hazzy]

My opinion on car damage is more of a "limited damage on-line, more simulation off-line" Like when you race off-line, the car gets more damage (causes loss in driving characteristics) but in on-line, the damage is more visual only, and does not cost as much as if it was off-line. and races should be class specific, so costs from repairs not exceed what crashers need to pay too much. (and when you get higher in classes, like racing cars, less crashers because of high costs.)

Mabye a restart vote program should be there also, so if a mass crash happens, pepole can vote-restart, and reset damage caused to the car if the vote passes. (this should be only be able to do the first 2 laps or so)

 

[Lain]

👍

I don't want the game to decide automatically what is right and what is wrong, because it will get it wrong. All that is required is the ability to set passwords on the host, and the ability to only invite friends/trusted racers.

Mhm. And for the events (where players are randomly chosen), I think there should be a Driver Reputation system. You're more likely to be placed with people that have reputations similar to yours. At the end of each race, you thumb up the drivers you thought did good, and it adds to their reputation. And the higher your reputation is, the more weight your thumbs up have.

No thumbs down though, because there are always jackasses out there who'd thumb down people just because they lost.

 

[Tenacious D]

Unfotunately, only the clubbing between known racers will secure 99% clean racing. Other "systems" will just bring sadness, misery and pain.

👍
I don't want the game to decide automatically what is right and what is wrong, because it will get it wrong. All that is required is the ability to set passwords on the host, and the ability to only invite friends/trusted racers.

Ditto.

I have to reiterate what many do in the PC racing and Forza community to reduce headaches, and that's to turn damage OFF. It seems that damage only encourages the nutbars to tear up other people's rides. The only answer I see is the private server/club option, with a host who's familiar with the ban button.

I also like yaywalter's idea of only giving plus rep, which is what they've done to the boards at PS3Forums.com. A negative rep system is abused much more than a positive one.

 

[sbursi]

I think that, like in some FPSes, a spectator system could be implemented. But in GT, the host could assign a spectator for major races (i.e. league races) that could serve as sort of a virtual race marshal. In GPL (which has a fantastic online system) many leagues do this to punish bad drivers, with the ultimate penalty of a ban. This really only works with password protected races, and if someone is willing and able to be the marshal.

 

[templedog]

Just dock time from them when they hit another car!!!! SImple as that.....That way the cars don't get ruined and the rammer will suffer consequences.

 

[aN4rK1]

I dont see why they dont implement full damage. I play GTR II and Race 07 in similation mode. Teaches you how to REALLY drive. If you get in a crash, parts fly off, engines break, wheels go flying and so on. If your caught in a crash, its just how it is, just like in real racing. Thats how you get better, learn to avoid crashes and so on.

 

[templedog]

There's no full damage because they are under contract with the car manufacturers to not damage the cars. That's what I read somewhere.

 

[MGR]

I dont see why they dont implement full damage. I play GTR II and Race 07 in similation mode. Teaches you how to REALLY drive. If you get in a crash, parts fly off, engines break, wheels go flying and so on. If your caught in a crash, its just how it is, just like in real racing. Thats how you get better, learn to avoid crashes and so on.

That's fine for offline play but this thread discusses damage in the context of online play.

I've already seen players that intentionally park their car on the oval banking at Daytona hoping to cause a pile up. Does anybody here actually believe a damage system would deter this kind of activity?

Private hosted rooms are a good solution, but it would be nice to be able to fire up the PS3 whenever you like and find good racers.

I do like yaywalters +rep type system.... 👍

 

[aN4rK1]

That's fine for offline play but this thread discusses damage in the context of online play.

I've already seen players that intentionally park their car on the oval banking at Daytona hoping to cause a pile up. Does anybody here actually believe a damage system would deter this kind of activity?

Private hosted rooms are a good solution, but it would be nice to be able to fire up the PS3 whenever you like and find good racers.

I do like yaywalters +rep type system.... 👍

Well you are always going to get ppl like that, its unavoidable. But I mean damage is a part of real racing and it should be a part in all sim's. I was talking about online play when I said that, I do play online, and for the most part ppl actually TRY and avoid damages. I do like the +rep idea, maybe that working together with a full damage model could be even better.

 

[templedog]

Damage won't exist because of the car companies

 

[dylansan]

Well you are always going to get ppl like that, its unavoidable. But I mean damage is a part of real racing and it should be a part in all sim's. I was talking about online play when I said that, I do play online, and for the most part ppl actually TRY and avoid damages. I do like the +rep idea, maybe that working together with a full damage model could be even better.

The problem is that wreckers, unlike real life, don't care if they cause a pile-up.

 

[BAZZ]

Unless the damage system is accurate as heck then they might as well leave it out.
I want it implemented but.. If i hit a wall in 200km/h+ I've wrecked the car. To just go "ahh dangit, i have to get a oil change!" after a crash like that? Naaah, if I've messed a car up that bad I want it to be properly gone or have a huge repair cost. Repair cost preferred in my opinion since there'll most likely be unique cars in GT5.

About the damage in other super realistic mega-ninja-turbo simulators. I flipped a car in GTR2 four times, landed on the front/side corner of the chassi, took another flip and a half then landed on the wheels. Yup, car was working. Definitely 100% but I'd be able to get it to the pits. Find me a situation where that has happened in real life and I'll bake you a cake the size of imaginationland. And yeah i had the damage on 100%.

LFS, ohh dear. I've had countless of crashes when my car has been looking like a shovel but still able to make it to the pits to fix the damage in 30-ish seconds.
Call it what you want, it's not realistic. It's a game.

Online penalty system should be present in GT5, one way or another though I think. Even with the option to have private races you have to meet new people in one way or another and they aren't all nice so there will of course be times where I'll be swearing like a pirate behind the wheel. Can't say that people like that bothers me all that much though. Overall, i tend to just ignore and move on.
It's just a game.

 

[spyrrari]

The problem is that wreckers, unlike real life, don't care if they cause a pile-up.

but there are already several online games where you can have a"friends" meeting or so.....so this should be possible via gt5p also!!you race online and discover who you trust and you can invite him or her to a race meeting at a pre set time!!than eventually we will block out all the bored and lonesome idiots who are sitting at home,have nothing better to do than to make other peoples lives even more difficult!!!.....if we keep up this sort of talk(trust me on thiseople in japan are also checking sites like this(i know several japaneese dudes who are gt-cracks and also there they are discussing the "crashers" problem!!!))we will get our private topracing online events......hope this will happen soon though cause i just have a little more patience left to go online and have my race srewed over by an imbiciel over and over again....

 

[aN4rK1]

The problem is that wreckers, unlike real life, don't care if they cause a pile-up.

This is true, I cant argue. I HATE ppl like that ugh. There has to be SOME innovative way to stop this. The Rep thing is a pretty good idea, maybe dweel on that a bit and elaborate some more.

About the damage in other super realistic mega-ninja-turbo simulators. I flipped a car in GTR2 four times, landed on the front/side corner of the chassi, took another flip and a half then landed on the wheels. Yup, car was working. Definitely 100% but I'd be able to get it to the pits. Find me a situation where that has happened in real life and I'll bake you a cake the size of imaginationland. And yeah i had the damage on 100%.

This could have been a few things. One It could just have been a glitch. If it was a track where you dled it, there could have been areas with bugs. For example a version of the Montreal Track that I have you just fall into nothingness if you hit a certain wall in a certain way.

Second, you might not have been in simulation mode? I hit walls at like 100kmph and the car just completely demolishes. Engine wouldnt start and so on.

Third, maybe a one time bug?

Iam not trying to defend GTR2 or anything but I Do think that the damage is that game is pretty good.

 

[BAZZ]

This could have been a few things. One It could just have been a glitch. If it was a track where you dled it, there could have been areas with bugs. For example a version of the Montreal Track that I have you just fall into nothingness if you hit a certain wall in a certain way.

Nope, it was on Spa, right after the Eau Rouge.

Second, you might not have been in simulation mode? I hit walls at like 100kmph and the car just completely demolishes. Engine wouldnt start and so on.

I don't think I've actually played it in anything but sim.

Third, maybe a one time bug?

Iam not trying to defend GTR2 or anything but I Do think that the damage is that game is pretty good.

Bug? Well, haven't heard of any bugs (using 1.1) concerning it, nope.
But yeah I know it's not supposed to be like that at all, it's got a good damage system overall, but it's not the first time I've seen things like that happen. Sure that might have been extreme but it just proves that it is after all, just a game.
I love GTR2, don't get me wrong, it's a great game and I've spent more hours in it then what's healthy but what i don't appreciate is the people claiming blindly (not saying you are mate, there's fanboys everywhere though hehe ) that it's the ultimate simulator in all categories. It does, just like every other game out there, have it's limits.

 

[templedog]

I would like to join a private league of serious guys and drive with them if thats possible. clan/guild/team/squad.....whatever you call it nowdays...a group of respectful competitive peeps.

Is there a league site online where you can go 5 on 5 team racing? that would be ideal for completion. www.teamwarfare.com does a great job for first person shooters.

 

[Fender_X]

I would like to join a private league of serious guys and drive with them if thats possible. clan/guild/team/squad.....whatever you call it nowdays...a group of respectful competitive peeps.

I second that motion