How do you stop suicide bombers...?

[Swift]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/12/06/iraq.main/index.html

This is Iraqi's killing Iraqi's here. How can you possibly defend yourself against something like this? You can't, you must take the offensive.

This particular event is just sick.

What do you think?

 

[Zardoz]

You don't. There is no defense. That's the problem.

As long as there are people willing to sacrifice their lives for the "cause" (whatever that may be), this will continue to happen.

This is another unforeseen development. Nobody envisioned this. Who could imagine a "suicide culture" arising in that wretched excuse for a "nation"?

But please explain yourself, Swift. What the hell do you mean by "offensive"? How do you go on "offense" against an unknown enemy? Who do you arrest? Who do you imprison? Who do you send to Gitmo? Who do you kill?

Please explain your "offensive strategy", and how it would not inevitably lead to more people volunteering for these kamikaze missions.

 

[Flerbizky]

Honestly ?...

That they're a bunch of ******* retarded assclowns...

Now I could write a bunch of stuff about how they need to be enlightened - but it'll probably come out all angry sounding which will not be my intention. Mostly I feel sorry for them - Believing that killing your own kind - with bombs, will make you a martyr and get you 78 virgins on the other side... Jeeez...

 

[Swift]

But please explain yourself, Swift. What the hell do you mean by "offensive"? How do you go on "offense" against an unknown enemy? Who do you arrest? Who do you imprison? Who do you send to Gitmo? Who do you kill?

Please explain your "offensive strategy", and how it would not inevitably lead to more people voluteering for these kamikaze missions.

First off, it's got nothing to do with hell.

Now, you're quite right. There is no "defense" for something like this as long as you have people that have been indoctrinated with a sense of superiority.

One possible offensive strategy would be to educate the people as to what is really going on. Many are so ignorant that they really beleive that the americans and Iraqis that are on their side are there to destroy them. This is obviously false, but that doesn't matter if that's all you know.

Obviously, going around arresting people just "because" will not help the situation. So again, as passive as it may seem, education looks like the best way to help with this. That and reaching out to the destitute in that area with help. I'm sure the militant fanatics are, so we(Americans in Iraq) need to be doing the same thing.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Win the hearts and minds of the people is one way.

The British have been doing it in Basra since the beginning, but I know Basra and Baghdad are completely different in their opposition to Saddam.

However, I did read in the news that Bush was making it official policy.

 

[vladimir]

How can you possibly defend yourself against something like this? You can't, you must take the offensive.

you must be kidding! you can fight the symptoms of a problem for ever, if you want. pre-emptive, offensive, defensive, whatever way you want, but you will never change anything.
fighting goes on in iraq for years now...nothing of the "we get rid of saddam and everyone is happy" talk has come true...
to get rid of terrorism you have to fight the roots, and that is extremely difficult. in fact that is made even more difficult if you start fighting the symptoms first, because that spreads hatred, one of the roots of terrorism.
when people years ago warned of going into iraq, they were not anti-american and against it because the americans wanted it, they opposed it because they feared an outcome like this.
you can't just free people and put democracy in place and expect it to work out. the democratic spirit has to come into existence first, and that is not yet the case in this region.
just have a look at europe, we tried democracy as well and got the second world war...it took us decades to arrange ourselves with our neighbours...it won't go any quicker in the middle east...

 

[Solid Fro]

The root of terrorism is Islam.

when people years ago warned of going into iraq, they were not anti-american and against it because the americans wanted it, they opposed it because they feared an outcome like this

No, they were Anti-American. Bush got his war! The war is for oil! American Imperialism! Dubya is finishing what his daddy couldn't!

I am sure those who opposed to uphold UN resolutions would fear the outcome in Iraq. An elected democratic government, a national constitution, and a free nation in the Middle East.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/12/06/iraq.main/index.html

This is Iraqi's killing Iraqi's here. How can you possibly defend yourself against something like this? You can't, you must take the offensive.

This particular event is just sick.

What do you think?

Why don't we just change our foreign policy and give them what they want?

 

[Danoff]

Why don't we just change our foreign policy and give them what they want?

...ah the old roll over and die approach. Interesting tactic. I believe that was invented by the French.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

...ah the old roll over and die approach. Interesting tactic. I believe that was invented by the French.

We created them [the "terrorists"]... and we can easily defuse the situation if we wanted to. But unfortunately, we won't because we like conflict and wars and destruction...keeps the economy going.

 

[vladimir]

The root of terrorism is Islam.

shall i now call SWAT because i have a muslim in my maths class?

you're narrow minded, intolerant and you most probably have no idea about islam...

No, they were Anti-American. Bush got his war! The war is for oil! American Imperialism! Dubya is finishing what his daddy couldn't!

I am sure those who opposed to uphold UN resolutions would fear the outcome in Iraq. An elected democratic government, a national constitution, and a free nation in the Middle East.

you better keep on not listening to anybody who is of a different opinion, so that you don't risk to shatter your dreamworld.
the whole problem with anti-americanism is that you are so goddamn paranoid you just make it up when it fits you, so that you can avoid any criticism...
where is that free and democratic nation?! where? free to die in an explosion or what?
or is all the terror in iraq just being made up by our european liberal-nazi-media?

we fear a democratic and free nation??? oh yes, and we're still weeping for poor saddam, cos we are so fond of dictators indeed! oh come on, you getting more and more ridiculous...

who sold technology to saddam and supported his war against iran? of course, we europeans...the americans never supported saddam...


you're so ignorant its unbelievable...

 

[Touring Mars]

The root of terrorism is Islam.

Utter nonsense... if you are going to bad-mouth a religion in such a blatant fashion, at least attempt to be even-handed and claim 'The root of terrorism is Religion'... that is debatable too, but atleast it's not sectarian... Religious fundamentalism certainly gives potential suicide bombers a personal justification for their actions, but it does not fully explain or justify the cause in which they carry out their actions... are the IRA, MPLA, ETA or Mossad Islamic? Islamic terrorism is a relatively new phenomenon compared to these groups... sure, Islamic terrorist groups like Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah or Hamas have used suicide bombing as a technique, and as despicable and indiscriminate as it may be, it does not make their cause any less or more justified or justifiable as other terrorist groups who use asymmetric warfare tactics to further their own agenda.... so to suggest that Islam is the defining characteristic of terrorists is palpable nonsense... to decry the religious stance of half of the planet as 'the root of terrorism' is quite ridiculous...

 

[Zardoz]

...the outcome in Iraq. An elected democratic government, a national constitution, and a free nation in the Middle East.

Let's hope some day it all works out, all those things come to pass, and the killing stops.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

The root of terrorism is Islam.

The root of terrorism is economic and political hegemony. The root of terrorism is destabilization and wholesale terrorism. The root of terrorism is...

any superpower at any given time in history. Accept responsibility.

An elected democratic government, a national constitution, and a free nation in the Middle East.

As long as they support the US, this is entirely possible. Should the democratically-elected government implement policies that go against Washington's wishes, there will be another regime change.

 

[Solid Fro]

"I am one of the servants of Allah. We do our duty of fighting for the sake of the religion of Allah. It is also our duty to send a call to all people of the world to enjoy this great light and to embrace Islam and experience the happiness in Islam. Our primary mission is nothing but the furthering of this religion."

- Osama bin Laden

The root of terrorism is Islam.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/interview.html
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=3737

 

[eliseracer]

...ah the old roll over and die approach. Interesting tactic. I believe that was invented by the French.

I don't get it. How come people are allowed to make comments like that on GTP, but put another country instead of France there and yoy get flamed and warned/banned in seconds. Rediculous.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Stop deflecting and accept responsibility.

 

[VIPFREAK]

We created them [the "terrorists"]... and we can easily defuse the situation if we wanted to. But unfortunately, we won't because we like conflict and wars and destruction...keeps the economy going.

Our ahem... down there is too big while our head up top is shrinking.

 

[Solid Fro]

No ****.

One country cannot give weapons to another allied country? There is no responsibility to accept. Funny how the article forgets why they were fighting. A war against the Soviet Union.

 

[Danoff]

I don't get it. How come people are allowed to make comments like that on GTP, but put another country instead of France there and yoy get flamed and warned/banned in seconds. Rediculous.

It was a joke and should not be taken seriously, I thought this thread could use a little lightheartedness... but if anyone is offended I'll remove it immediately.

We created them [the "terrorists"]... and we can easily defuse the situation if we wanted to. But unfortunately, we won't because we like conflict and wars and destruction...keeps the economy going.

This is complete horse hockey. We didn't convince people to come over here and blow up innocent civilians... and the notion that we're purposefully perpetuating further deaths to keep our economy going is not only an increadibly vile concept - it doesn't even make sense. If you knew your economics well you'd know that it is NOT good for the economy (long term) for a country to be at war... and the short term benefits (which are bad because they come at greater expense in the long term) do not require war to achieve.

 

[VIPFREAK]

We didn't convince people to come over here and blow up innocent civilians... and the notion that we're purposefully perpetuating further deaths to keep our economy going is not only an increadibly vile concept - it doesn't even make sense. If you knew your economics well you'd know that it is NOT good for the economy (long term) for a country to be at war... and the short term benefits do not require war to achieve.

We may haven't had said it directly but we've definitely been inviting it for years now indirectly.

If you knew your economics well you'd know that it is NOT good for the economy (long term) for a country to be at war... and the short term benefits do not require war to achieve.

I think hatred is a good bypass for $

 

[Danoff]

We may haven't had said it directly but we've definitely been inviting it for years now indirectly.

How?

 

[eliseracer]

It was a joke and should not be taken seriously, I thought this thread could use a little lightheartedness... but if anyone is offended I'll remove it immediately.

You don't have to remove it. Like I said, if someone were to say the same joke with a different country name, they'd be gone in no time, joke or not.

I'm going to leave it at that. Carry on with the original discussion.

 

[VIPFREAK]

How?

Media

Movies (whether they see it as hollywood or not doesn't matter btw, it's still offensive)

The way we treat other countries. (beside the "aid" we give them) Would they give us "aid" if we need it? probably not.

 

[Danoff]

Media

Movies (whether they see it as hollywood or not doesn't matter btw, it's still offensive)

The way we treat other countries. (beside the "aid" we give them) Would they give us "aid" if we need it? probably not.

I see, so if a movie, news report, or free food angers any of them, that makes it our fault when they kill us?

Let me see if I can apply this to an everyday scenario.

Let's say I walk up to one of my co-workers and tell them they they're ugly, stupid, and could be replaced by a chimp who would do better work.

You're telling me that it would be my fault if this person killed me, my friends and my associates?

 

[VIPFREAK]

Long term it may build up, but it's not going to automatically make them do it. They might use it to justify going after us when they do crack and if they need a reason.

 

[Danoff]

Long term it may build up, but it's not going to automatically make them do it. They might use it to justify going after us when they do crack and if they need a reason.

Well of course they're going to use it internally to justify their actions... but it doesn't mean we're responsible, or that we should (as Brian put it) "accept responsibility". As though we brought this on ourselves.

 

[VIPFREAK]

Well of course they're going to use it internally to justify their actions... but it doesn't mean we're responsible, or that we should (as Brian put it) "accept responsibility". As though we brought this on ourselves.

I think we have bought it on ourselves.

 

[Dave A]

The only people that can stop suicide bombers are their own people. You just can't prevent a guy walking into a crowded area with C4 strapped to him and setting it off. They believe what they;re doing is right and that they will gain a grand reward for their sacrifice. If someone genuinely believes that by doing that he's pleasing God and will be rewarded greatly, how to do you reason with him. Nothing can beat the bigger picture in their minds.

On the subject of movies and music ect influencing violence, it desensitises people to it, people become used to seeing violence so it become more ordinary to them. That much is a fact. My opinion is that the lowering standards of tv and music in this regard has a big influence on how people act in life, especially privately which then has an affect socially.

 

[Danoff]

I think we have bought it on ourselves.

How??

(I gave you reasons why your earlier explanation wasn't sufficient)