How do you stop suicide bombers...?

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Look at our world over most other countries, the wealth we have and also how we pretect ourselves and bully other countries around because of it.

For ex. if you look at Japan, they are just as weaithy but they also respect everyone else as well. They don't build up their protection knowing everyones coming at them.
 
VIPFREAK
Look at our world over most other countries, the wealth we have and also how we pretect ourselves and bully other countries around because of it.

We protect ourselves, that's not "asking for it".

For ex. if you look at Japan, they are just as weaithy but they also respect everyone else as well. They don't build up their protection knowing everyones coming at them.

Ah yes, well you have that luxury when you have a country like the US to protect you.
 
danoff
This is complete horse hockey. We didn't convince people to come over here and blow up innocent civilians... and the notion that we're purposefully perpetuating further deaths to keep our economy going is not only an increadibly vile concept - it doesn't even make sense. If you knew your economics well you'd know that it is NOT good for the economy (long term) for a country to be at war... and the short term benefits (which are bad because they come at greater expense in the long term) do not require war to achieve.

It was a joke and should not be taken seriously, I thought this thread could use a little lightheartedness... but if anyone is offended I'll remove it immediately.

Viper Zero
There is no responsibility to accept.

Keep telling yourself that.
 
MrktMkr1986
It was a joke and should not be taken seriously, I thought this thread could use a little lightheartedness... but if anyone is offended I'll remove it immediately.

Was it a joke? I don't think so. If it was a joke, why do you say the following?


Keep telling yourself that.

Is this a joke too?


I think you're serious.
 
danoff
Was it a joke? I don't think so.

It was. I knew you were being sarcastic... so I bit back.

If it was a joke, why do you say the following?

Because it's the truth. If a political party wants to tout "personal responsibility" as part of their platform then I think it's about time that they do.

Is this a joke too?

I don't know Viper_Zero well enough to want to joke with him. You and I on the other hand have had many conversations with each other... I'm more comfortable being sarcastic with you (except when situations like this arise).
 
Zardoz
No, they don't. Dig deep and you'll find that they basically consider themselves to be a sort of master race.

They may THINK that but I doubt they would actually SAY it. And the more western influnces affect them the more they will lose of their culture and start saying they are . :grumpy:
 
VIPFREAK
Look at our world over most other countries, the wealth we have and also how we pretect ourselves and bully other countries around because of it.

For ex. if you look at Japan, they are just as weaithy but they also respect everyone else as well. They don't build up their protection knowing everyones coming at them.

We bully other countries around because its the only way we can survive. We are losing respect in the international community precisely because we refuse to accept responsibility for this.
 
MrktMkr1986
We bully other countries around because its the only way we can survive. We are losing respect in the international community precisely because we refuse to accept responsibility for this.

So you're saying since they don't respect us we will make them respect us? I need laymens version right now. :dunce:
 
VIPFREAK
So you're saying since they don't respect us we will make them respect us? I need laymens version right now. :dunce:

Not quite... I'm saying they don't respect us because we act as though we've never done anything wrong -- as if we're the always the victim. We act as though we're being bullied when the opposite is true.

Now, because we refuse to accept responsibility for our actions, people around the world are losing respect for the US. This is characteristic of all superpowers.
 
Viper- I disagree with you saying Islam being the root of terrorism.

Islam is clearly involved in a great deal of terrorism around the world. I think rather than being the root of terrorism, Islam is a tool amongst other tools.
 
MrktMkr1986
Not quite... I'm saying they don't respect us because we act as though we've never done anything wrong -- as if we're the always the victim. We act as though we're being bullied when the opposite is true.

Now, because we refuse to accept responsibility for our actions, people around the world are losing respect for the US. This is characteristic of all superpowers.

:lol: the victim of what?? Not getting what we want? :dopey: :cough: oil :cough:
 
VIPFREAK
:lol: the victim of what?? Not getting what we want? :dopey: :cough: oil :cough:

It's not necessarily about what we "want". It's what is needed to maintain our position as the most powerful nation in the world. Unfortunately, because we tend to be reckless when it comes to our foreign policy, sometimes it backfires.
 
MrktMkr1986
Not quite... I'm saying they don't respect us because we act as though we've never done anything wrong -- as if we're the always the victim. We act as though we're being bullied when the opposite is true.

Now, because we refuse to accept responsibility for our actions, people around the world are losing respect for the US. This is characteristic of all superpowers.


I'm lost. Are you joking still? Because if not you're way off the mark. We bear no responsibility for the acts of terrorism that have been committed against us.
 
danoff
I'm lost. Are you joking still? Because if not you're way off the mark. We bear no responsibility for the acts of terrorism that have been committed against us.

I didn't say we must accept responsibility for acts of terrorism.

Nothing justifies acts of terrorism.

I said we must accept responsibility for our actions.

NOTE: I'm not yelling at you by enlarging the font there. I just want to make my particular position on terrorism, our actions, and accepting responsibility clear -- just so there's no misunderstanding.
 
MrktMkr1986
Now, because we refuse to accept responsibility for our actions, people around the world are losing respect for the US. This is characteristic of all superpowers.

As if I cared what Old Europe or Islamofascists thought of the US.

luftrofl
Viper- I disagree with you saying Islam being the root of terrorism.

Islam is clearly involved in a great deal of terrorism around the world. I think rather than being the root of terrorism, Islam is a tool amongst other tools.

I agree, Osama bin Laden does use Islam as a tool. If Islam went away, what would bin Laden have as a motivation?
 
Viper Zero
I agree, Osama bin Laden does use Islam as a tool. If Islam went away, what would bin Laden have as a motivation?

In other words, you want to eliminate an entire group of people to stop some perceived threat?

You really need to clarify that statement.
 
You can't stop suicide bombers short of making the US a fortress and not letting ANYONE in or out and going with an entirely isolationist policy. Because you can't exactly do that (and history has already happened - the offending parties are already super pissed), nuking the entire middle east is the only other option to stop it entirely. Thats also would be going too far, so basically I can see terrorism continuing in some form forever. You can get better intelligence, stop more attacks etc, it might make it a lot better but I don't think its possible to stop an entire ideaology, its bigger than just a few evil dudes in a cave - KAOS style.

The differences in ideaology between the cultures is so vast IMO and the feeling of hatred (both ways) so strong I can't see a diplomatic solution ever working. America is good at shooting people and breaking things, not so hot at diplomacy. People have forever been getting annoyed at how the US deals with international conflicts etc... its just the reality of being the world's biggest superpower and policeman.
 
MrktMkr1986
In other words, you want to eliminate an entire group of people to stop some perceived threat?

You really need to clarify that statement.

It's not the people, but the false belief that martyring yourself will send you straight to heaven.
 
James2097
nuking the entire middle east is the only other option to stop it entirely. Thats also would be going too far, so basically I can see terrorism continuing in some form forever.

That's not true; all we have to do is change our foreign policy.

The differences in ideaology between the cultures is so vast IMO and the feeling of hatred (both ways) so strong I can't see a diplomatic solution ever working.

That's not true, either! People with differences of opinion can still get along. It's how we treat those people that affects our diplomatic relations with them. We change the way we behave, they will change the way they behave.

America is good at shooting people and breaking things, not so hot at diplomacy.

Perhaps...

It's not the people, but the false belief that martyring yourself will send you straight to heaven.

Thank you for clearing that up... I was confused for a second.
 
The more you do to stop terrioists, the harder they try.

I dont think you can stop sucide bombers. If you die from a sucide bomb your time was up, absolutly nothing you can do about it. Your time was simply up. Its not fair but life never is.

Religion has a bit reason why terror exists, but like all things if you take it away and their was no such thing as religion, im sure the terriosts and human-kind will find other reasons to fight.

fighting is in our nature and we all want to get what WE want. We are selfish and 95% of the time only think about our selves. I think the problem runs too deep to fix, it is just how we are and how we are made. We can try to minimise the problem, but we can never eradict it.
 
But they will never run out. That's what James described. As much as I hate to quote a stupid no-cause punk band, "you can kill the protester, but you can't kill the protest." The ideology of it all will always run, no matter what you try to prevent it.
 
My .02 cents (because I'm staying with my wife and baby at the hospital and won't be around to post for the next 20 pages or so):

I'm not going to bash the United States of America, thank you.

But there is some truth to what MrktMrkt and what the other guys are saying.

Terrorism is, given, a complex issue, with many reasons and sources. The Islamic form of terrorism is only one of the more extreme examples. A discussion of "suicide bombers" ONLY would merely lead to a circular argument condemning only fundamentalist Islamic terrorists and guerillas. This ignores the fact that there are non-Islamic "Communist" terrorists as well as Catholics (IRA, anyone?).

Terrorism is deeply rooted in a clash of cultures, poverty and perceived oppression. In the case of Islamic terrorists, many of those roots are deep in the past, and some of them are still raw. It's a given that Westerners HAVE abused and attacked Arabs in the past, and that there are animosities between Christians/Jews and Arabs that go back centuries.

That said, the US Government and the CIA have, over the past few decades, given the Fundamentalists much to grumble about. The cavalier attitude of the CIA in overthrowing foreign governments and leaders in order to "protect" American interests during the Cold War not only fueled unrest in the Middle East, it created some of our worst enemies. Osama's mujaheddin supporters were once trained and supplied by the CIA in order to harrass the Russians. The CIA practically wrote the book on terrorist attacks by teaching them guerilla warfare. The CIA also engineered regime changes in Iran and Iraq. Whether or not terrorism has any justification (and I am of the personal opinion that THERE IS NONE WHATSOEVER), the US has given them many of the weapons that they need.

Part of the complicity is also with the Russians, who worked hard to fuel anti-US sentiment and who also supplied tons of arms and ammunition to small "revolutionary" groups around the world. The ubiquitous AK47, which has become the icon of the guerilla warrior, was handed out freely to aid the "Communist Imperative". The KGB also provided support for terrorist cells in the past, both in terms of money and training.

Islamic fundamentalism plays a strong role in terrorism, but that role could be taken by any religion or belief system at odds with our own. There was a time, not too long ago, when Darwinian Socialists slaughtered Jews. And before that, when Christians burned Negroes, and long before that, when Christians burned Jews and Muslims. As long as the belief system is rigid and unyielding, and as long as it provides a strong spiritual base, it can be made to support anything.

You can't stop suicide bombers, just like you can't stop a twelve year old from picking up a shotgun and going on a killing spree. There will always be fanatics. What you can do is address the social issues underlying the problem, the poverty, the cultural clash and the political rhetoric fueling this centuries old fire (check out what's happening in France)

.........

And lastly, in terms of Iraq... yes, we have brought this upon ourselves. There were no terrorists in Iraq at the start of the war, just a tin-pot dictator trying to hold on to his own. Bringing him down by force from the outside, the US was ignoring history, and it's own previous blunders. Where the CIA has forced regime-change before, only chaos has resulted, as often, another dictator (sometimes worse) steps in to fill the void. Once you remove a very strong dictator, you create a power vacuum that needs to be filled. There will be many who will want to take his place, and be willing to fight for it. And once you've instituted a mechanism for removing one, it can be done over and over again, even for "elected" leaders. Look to Africa, at the succession of oppressive, genocidal military dictatorships that crop up one after the other (and I don't see anyone "freeing" them).

Another case in point: the Philippines. With the aid of massive civil disobedience, the military forced Ferdinand Marcos (another CIA-funded dictator) out of power. His opponent, who supposedly won the previous election, was put in power, but faced some of the same military officers who supported her in coup d'etat after coup d'etat. Her successor was removed by civil unrest also, and our current president is facing the same problem. REMOVING THE LEADER DOES NOT REMOVE THE PROBLEM, it merely ignores the symptoms and to some extent, makes them harder to correct.

"Freeing" Iraq was never the first priority. "Protecting" American Interests was. The sad thing is watching the politicians who once supported the war fervently backpedal and say they want out... now. Why? Because it is harmful for the US to remain in Iraq, politically, economically and socially... but forcing a pull-out before the guerilla-terrorist problem is satisfactorily solved would be a terrible blow for democracy in the Middle East.

And once things go wrong in Baghdad, who's to say that Iran won't try and "liberate" them?
 
niky
There were no terrorists in Iraq at the start of the war, just a tin-pot dictator trying to hold on to his own.

Incorrect.

Al Qaeda was in Iraq in 1998, if not before.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing3/witness_yaphe.htm
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/decade/sect5.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein_and_al-Qaeda

"Freeing" Iraq was never the first priority.

Yes, it was.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Liberation_Act

The sad thing is watching the politicians who once supported the war fervently backpedal and say they want out... now.

Yes, it is sad to see a whole political party (the Democrats) contradict themselves in public. It is clearly a political stunt to undermine a US president and soldiers fighting for the freedom of a
foreign land. I commend leaders like Joe Lieberman for standing up and telling the truth.
 
Gabkicks
guess who's a republican

NO ****!

Just because I am a Republican doesn't mean you can throw out the facts I just stated. Whether you like it or not, they are the facts.
 
ns29jd.jpg


(and after reading it, I'm betting that you didn't before posting that one... you also need to look up the word "allegedly")


ns15ez.jpg


No **** Sherlock.
 
Viper Zero
Just because I am a Republican doesn't mean you can throw out the facts I just stated. Whether you like it or not, they are the facts.

It's amazing how the left seems to do that when it bests suits them. Oh well...
 
Viper Zero
NO ****!

Just because I am a Republican doesn't mean you can throw out the facts I just stated. Whether you like it or not, they are the facts.
you quote osama bin ladin to back up your anti-islamism and call that facts?

if i would tomorrow blow myself up for christianity, would that make christianity the root of my terror?
 
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