How important is damage in GT5?

[MowTin]

A hard lick against the wall could leave a car essentially worthless, let alone multiple hits. Keep in mind that Forza 2 allowed multiple levels of damage, from cosmetic only to full... and even allowed for collisions to be turned off in online races. There's plenty of YouTube videos claiming Forza's damage system is bunk, but they've got damage set to "cosmetic" or "limited".

I hope PD doesn't let the Forza team out do them. What's so hard about non visual damage? Even some very basic non-visual damage like engine death for high speed collision would help the realism greatly.

I feel like I'm driving a car until I hit a wall real hard but then keep on going. At that moment the "realism" takes damage.

 

[unv412]

PD must work on implementing mechanical damage and collision physics like FM2's (maybe just the best going @ atm except 50mph into wall should mean COMA)........and work the magic with the visual damage last if there is time before GT5's release.

 

[RacingFreak2k3]

Sorry, but that couldn't be further from the truth. I participated in a fixed model/PI league with full damage turned on and a slight encounter with the wall could leave you with aero or suspension damage that could be extremely detrimental to your lap times. And, thanks to driver error, I once lost a race thanks to damaging the engine just slightly by downshifting too quickly. It only added about two seconds to my laps, but that was enough for second place to catch and pass me. Knowing that you've got to keep your car clean adds a great level of immersion to racing, especially when you're accelerating hard off a corner and come within inches of the outside wall. A complete rush.

A hard lick against the wall could leave a car essentially worthless, let alone multiple hits. Keep in mind that Forza 2 allowed multiple levels of damage, from cosmetic only to full... and even allowed for collisions to be turned off in online races. There's plenty of YouTube videos claiming Forza's damage system is bunk, but they've got damage set to "cosmetic" or "limited".

Oh ok, thanks for clearing that up. I don't own Forza, I was just going off what my buddy had set on his 360 and Forza 2, and i don't quite remember what his options were set at. Thanks for the info tho. I hope PD can do something like that then

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

As a driving simulator, I'd say visual/internal damage is very important. Not absolutely necessary (the actual driving dynamics take precedence), but at least in some form, it adds a new element to the racing.

 

[zhunterzz]

I have to say, I'd like damage, but like everyone is saying, Its gotta be good. I love the series and damage is definitely something it has lacked, but also, we never know, they may have it in the works. Whatever happens though, GT is still a legendary game.

 

[the razgriz]

Damage is one of the main reasons I would want Forza so if GT5 has damage forza can die.

 

[Spec M]

How will they determine who hit who and whos at fault. If someone break checks me purposely and I hit them will I get a penalty. How about if some one hits me from behind and the force pushes me into the driver in front? How about if someone is lagging and the appear to be somwhere there not causing your perception to be off.

Many of these problems are present in Forza. Some of the more dedicated people drive with collisions and/or damage off, thus defeating the whole purpose of having damage to begin with. The transfer of force in Forza is a bit more powerful than GT so even if you do get hit hard or tapped this still may knock you into a wall or put you into a spin.

Im pretty sure that more problems will be present if damage is added. I would hope if they do add damage into the game that it cosmetically be something like that of the PGR series. I hope Polyphony stays true to tradition tho, If it aint broke dont fix it...👍

 

[unimental]

How will they determine who hit who and whos at fault. If someone break checks me purposely and I hit them will I get a penalty. How about if some one hits me from behind and the force pushes me into the driver in front? How about if someone is lagging and the appear to be somwhere there not causing your perception to be off.

That's the biggest issue with GT5 online at the moment... the penalty system is a great idea but the execution is still way off.

Examples:

- A racer slams their brakes in front of you while you're drafting and you receive the penalty while they get a cheap speed boost from your contact.

- You can get booted off the track in a turn and if the offending car was on the brakes hard enough, they don't receive a penalty.

- Too many shortcuts and wide turns (Suzuka and Fuji are horrible) that don't result in a penalty.

- A ghosted, penalized car "un-ghosts" while you're passing through and your car gets launched as if it were a 100+ MPH collision.

Overall, as bad as the penalty system is, that's the great thing about introducing online play in Prologue... PD gets plenty of time to work out the issues before the full GT5 launches.

 

[shaka]

I dont play GT to crash my car so i dont care for damage.

leave that to Burnout.

 

[Spec M]

That's the biggest issue with GT5 online at the moment... the penalty system is a great idea but the execution is still way off.

Examples:

- A racer slams their brakes in front of you while you're drafting and you receive the penalty while they get a cheap speed boost from your contact.

- You can get booted off the track in a turn and if the offending car was on the brakes hard enough, they don't receive a penalty.

- Too many shortcuts and wide turns (Suzuka and Fuji are horrible) that don't result in a penalty.

- A ghosted, penalized car "un-ghosts" while you're passing through and your car gets launched as if it were a 100+ MPH collision.

Overall, as bad as the penalty system is, that's the great thing about introducing online play in Prologue... PD gets plenty of time to work out the issues before the full GT5 launches.

For the shortcuts maybe they should add some kittylitter (gravel) or sand pit of some sort. I believe it was Toca that had this magical patch of grass that would put you in a uncontrolable spin on contact.

 

[unimental]

I dont play GT to crash my car so i dont care for damage.

leave that to Burnout.

Leave it to Burnout... right. And I suppose that games like rFactor, Live For Speed, GTR2, GT Legends, and RACE 07 are all arcade racing games as well since they include damage models.

 

[Southend Rage]

All those games are sim racing games, I have them myself, and the damage just adds concequence and realism to the game.

 

[unimental]

All those games are sim racing games, I have them myself, and the damage just adds concequence and realism to the game.

That's exactly my point.

 

[phil_2001]

There was car damage in GT2 and I didn't like it. Anyway the sense in driving a car is to drive it as it is natively, not broken visually and physically. I hope they don't loose time over the damage system, I can do best without it, I want to have fun driving my cars, not simulate a real race driver out of me.

 

[Spec M]

There was car damage in GT2 and I didn't like it. Anyway the sense in driving a car is to drive it as it is natively, not broken visually and physically. I hope they don't loose time over the damage system, I can do best without it, I want to have fun driving my cars, not simulate a real race driver out of me.

Agreed, and I also believe thats what GT is all about, driving the cars as the are ment to be for the most part...

 

[Biggles]

Anyone who wants to know what damage looks like on a PS3 racing sim only has to try F1:CE.

There, if you hit anything with any force, you're done. Is it difficult? Yes. Is it frustrating? Yes. Can it drive you absolutely nuts? Yes! Does it add a huge measure of concentration, tension, excitement & realism to the racing? YES!

Note, that in F1:CE the visual damage system isn't particularly sophisticated, but it totally does the job, forcing you to drive somewhat cautiously, especially in the early (crowded) stages of a race. In career mode, in particular, where you're in a continuous, "role-playing", non re-start situation, it adds a whole new level of realism to the racing.

GT5 without damage: realistic collision physics, mechanical damage AND visual damage - even if (like Forza & F1:CE) it's not perfect - will always be more arcade than sim: OK for driving solo, but hopelessly unrealistic (& boring even) for racing.

At this point, I would much rather PD devoted their resources to this aspect of GT, instead of increasing the (already unmatched) graphic sophistication or adding more cars/tracks.

 

[Southend Rage]

Thank you biggles! You arn't scared of damage I see.

 

[heavyboots]

Visual damage is relatively unimportant to me. Changing the handling dynamics of the car to simulate damage you've done, that is where they should concentrate their efforts. Having said that, RBR is a blast to drive after you've rolled the car and can barely see through the smashed windscreen...

 

[Biggles]

Thank you biggles! You arn't scared of damage I see.

Yeah, I ain't scared of nuthin'.

Although, like others here, I think visual damage is less important than collision physics & mechanical damage, I still think it's important to have some degree of visual damage. Without it, the game graphics end up having a very arcade look regardless of the overall sophistication of the graphics ie. why spend all that time making the game look incredibly real, then have it look completely fake everytime there's any contact?

I actually suspect the implementation of mechanical damage - simulating the effects on the cars performance over the course of a race - probably requires more computing power than does visual damage.

 

[JohnBM01]

I find no importance in damage. Remember that I was never drawn to the prospect of online play or damage like more than 85% of the rest of the world. I'm not excited about damage. Like when I play a Burnout game, I care more about racing than crashing. I'm not going to intentionally crash cars to see if I can wreck it because racing is ALWAYS more important than crashing. Don't give me that bulls:censored: about crashes being an adrenaline rush or something fun to watch. I don't buy into that roughneck NASCAR mentality.

If I had to vote in favor of crash damage for one such element, however, it is in showcasing the graphics and physics engine. Think about it. Destroying stuff into all kinds of debris shows off how much more extra polygons and stuff are all present at one time. The better a mangled-up race car is displayed after a crash, the better the graphics and physics model. I would have to imagine there would be a sufficient model to handle crashes should PD attempt this. I even put into place the deal regarding how close to the auto makers and how much PD wants to pursue realistic car damage. Do they want to pursue car damage so much because they feel GT isn't as highly regarded as the Forza series in crashes and racing? Or do they want to make crash damage to be extremely possible so that there's a price to pay for driving rough or taking intense damage?

No matter what PD does, people are going to be b*tchy on damage. I'm usually okay with scraped paint or even headlights not working anymore. I may even welcome the rear wing getting damaged. But I don't have that NASCAR mentality, so I'm not excited to see a car get completely wrecked. Even "Need for Speed: Pro Street" had some interesting damage models. I am just not a fan of automotive savagery and intentionally crashing just to show off the crash engine (or to just be a heartless and disrespectful bastard). How are you going to please the arcade-type and simulation-type racing gamers? Something to prevent either side from feeling too whiny about the intensity of damage (even if damage intensity even means the driver getting hurt badly or even killed) is fine with me. I even imagine getting into an intense crash in GT5 where my car gets completely OWNED. Most would be whiny if damage is weak. However, most average gamers would hate for damage to be too intense that it's GTR-difficult. I am not going to rate the level of importance of damage because damage isn't important to me. Just try to finish the race in one piece, then, you don't need to worry about damage. Even still, I can imagine some YouTube people posting videos of only crashes of cars like crashing is the only thing you can do in GT5 with God-awful rock music (meaning rock music most other people like, but I extremely hate, putting me in the minority) playing in the background while other YouTube members make more comments featuring more four-letter expletives than Britney Spears on a bad day.

 

[Spec M]

Yes I agree, seems the hardcore fans of the series agree that they dont really care for crashing. This will also take away from the tradition of the game. People ask for damage but once they get online and get wrecked by a newb and lose their position everything changes. If they even do add damage they(PD) will have to completely change the physics because in the current GT games you have to hit someone pretty hard to even knock them off there line.

Im not concerned because I know the majority of experienced and competitive players will have the damage turned off anyways.

 

[Biggles]

If they even do add damage they(PD) will have to completely change the physics because in the current GT games you have to hit someone pretty hard to even knock them off there line.

That's exactly the problem: how can you have any kind of realistic racing if "you have to hit someone pretty hard to even knock them off there (sic) line".

I believe it's referred to as "bumper cars".

You should have to bide your time waiting for the opportunity to make a clean pass, or at least take into account how potential contact is going to effect your own driving line.

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

There was car damage in GT2 and I didn't like it. Anyway the sense in driving a car is to drive it as it is natively, not broken visually and physically. I hope they don't loose time over the damage system, I can do best without it, I want to have fun driving my cars, not simulate a real race driver out of me.

No offense, but if we're supposed to drive cars the way they're REALLY meant to be driven, we'd be getting a city life simulator...getting from point A to point B, no competition involved. Cars are, essentially, meant to be transportation vessels, not instruments of competition.

But then, what we really want is a RACING SIMULATOR...I don't know about you, but I don't play GT to feel what it's like to just "DRIVE" a Skyline, I play GT so I can RACE in a Skyline! That's the point of having you complete licenses and tests; so you can COMPETE! And part of the thrill of racing is the fear of the consequences of being careless, being at the edge of your seat trying to anticipate every minimal move by your opponent! Without damage, part of that goes away unfortunately...

For people who want to just "drive", there are plenty other simulators that allow you to drive without having to compete. GT is not it.

 

[Biggles]

No offense, but if we're supposed to drive cars the way they're REALLY meant to be driven, we'd be getting a city life simulator...getting from point A to point B, no competition involved. Cars are, essentially, meant to be transportation vessels, not instruments of competition.

But then, what we really want is a RACING SIMULATOR...I don't know about you, but I don't play GT to feel what it's like to just "DRIVE" a Skyline, I play GT so I can RACE in a Skyline! That's the point of having you complete licenses and tests; so you can COMPETE! And part of the thrill of racing is the fear of the consequences of being careless, being at the edge of your seat trying to anticipate every minimal move by your opponent! Without damage, part of that goes away unfortunately...

For people who want to just "drive", there are plenty other simulators that allow you to drive without having to compete. GT is not it.

I agree with you totally - for me it's about the RACING! I got into console driving games because of the challenge of racing not for the ersatz thrill of "owning" & "driving" exotic cars.

To be fair though: GT does advertise itself as "the real driving simulator".

 

[Spec M]

Ok this will settle everything: If you want damage GT is not the game for you Simple as that.

 

[Rocket Punch]

Until most people start playing the "game" as a "sim", they don't deserve to have damage.

People moan and yell for "realistic" damage because GT5 is "the REAL driving simulator", until they plow thru a field of cars then they will switch 180deg and say "come on, don't be so serious, its just a game...."

 

[zondahelmet]

if done right, a damage model would add tremendous level of realism, assuming the AI of the AI drivers would also be updated beyond the current robotic-stick-to-one-raceline-mentality

not only would you try not to sideswipe your car in a race and thus ruin a potential replay (who wants to see a bangled up ferrari racing around), you would also be a lot more careful about overtaking (more tension/adrenaline.. "can i get around him without touching him?"), and no strategies like this would exist anymore - "after a long straight, the guy in front of me slows down while i plow into him at full speed, he goes off the track while the bump slows me enough to make the sharp turn and gain a position"

damage would definitely be a good thing for the series.. and i'd say there a .01% chance that we'll see it in GT5.. i'm crossing my fingers for GT6 to finally have a proper damage model

 

[Bones Brigade]

Ok this will settle everything: If you want damage GT is not the game for you Simple as that.

sarcasm?

 

[scandisk]

Until most people start playing the "game" as a "sim", they don't deserve to have damage.

People moan and yell for "realistic" damage because GT5 is "the REAL driving simulator", until they plow thru a field of cars then they will switch 180deg and say "come on, don't be so serious, its just a game...."

AMEN to this.

 

[JohnBM01]

Here's a question for you all. If we don't get detailed damage for each car (including street carsO, would you at least favor the possibility of scraped paint and rear wings taken off?