How important is damage in GT5?

[RedOak]

i do agree with the sentiment that if you run into a wall at 150mph, that should effectively kill you car, race over. now THAT would add a much needed sense of realism/excitement and provide a balance between aggressive driving and more cautious driving.. endurance races would be more demanding and require more attention, and thus be more rewarding in the end.

Overall, Forza Motorsport 2 did a very good job of doing just that. For sure, their visual damage is not "wonderful", but it does the job of telling the player there is damage.

Like i said in a previous post, having the forza damage system, mixed with the visual effects of a game like GRID
would make for something quite interesting in GT5.

 

[RedOak]

I don't have the game "yet"... but looking at videos online, i've also noticed that cars still don't bottom up, make rolls or anything of the sort.

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

Great points there, helmet. I don't think we'll see another miracle as far as GT5's development is concerned; heck, I was stunned seeing 16 photorealistic looking cars on the road at the same time. But I have faith they'll do a great job, if not perfect, modelling damage.

 

[JohnBM01]

Strangely enough, I never consider roll-overs as damage. That is, unless you're talking about parts flying off of cars. Anyone who's seen a sprint car or winged sprint get into nasty rollovers know how intense rollover damage is. I think you could allow rollovers without making them intensely violent. There have been some races where I swear I could be on two wheels and end up getting owned by a hard wall or something. I can remember the demo video for Special Stage Route 11 in Gran Turismo 1. The Mazda 323F was a car that was on two wheels on Lap 1 heading out of a turn. I wouldn't mind rollovers. In fact, it would have been interesting for rally racing with rollovers, much less any regular form of racing where rollovers would happen.

 

[alba]

I agree with amar, performance damage > visual damage.

 

[JackB]

i dont think there is any fun in driving cleanly and then your engine blowing up on the last lap. yes this is a realistic event - mechanical parts do malfunction in the real world - but you cant convince me youre making the game more FUN

Agreed. Forza's engines blew up only on Sim damage mode (not limited damage mode) and even then it was from consistent over revving or dropping down into 2nd on a straight away at 120 mph or so. If you were on Automatic, that wouldn't happen. It rarely happened on Sim damage mode, but you deserved it if it did. It wasn't a random event.

this entire damage model idea poses a huge problem for the developer, especially one pursuing realism and the label "the real driving simulator" - making realistic damage would imply that in a f1 race, touching someone at 100mph may very well screw up your suspension, rendering you unable to finish the race - this would be a huge irritator when faced with subpar AI which may be responsible for crashes like this half the time; unless the developers succeed in incorporating some sort of emotion/fear/crash avoidance into the AI driving behavior which would provide more satisfactory racing experience.

Agreed here as well. Forza's damage model even with Sim damage was limited to still make it fun. I'd expect GT 5 to use the same approach. Additonally, you don't necessarily kill your suspension with a rub even in open wheel. I watch a lot of Indycar and touches occur in every race on ovals especially and the cars keep running unless it's a big big "touch".

but at the same time, scaling back effects of collision (to not be as punishing as reality) may result in unrealistic behavior - such as rearending a car with a 40mph speed difference, both cars walking away seemingly undamaged

A happy medium can definitely be reached. Forza's performance and collision models worked well, but the graphics could be improved on. PD's strength is graphics. Something similar to Forza's performance damage model and a similar physics based collision effects model with better graphics would be just what the doctor ordered!

i do agree with the sentiment that if you run into a wall at 150mph, that should effectively kill you car, race over. now THAT would add a much needed sense of realism/excitement and provide a balance between aggressive driving and more cautious driving.. endurance races would be more demanding and require more attention, and thus be more rewarding in the end. but ya, the issue i outlined in the 2nd and 3rd paragraph is still a puzzle

The optional damage model does give users a choice. When used it does create more immersion and you do tend to drive more realistically to keep your car in one piece. I definitely prefer it to a bumper cars approach. If PD implements a decent "optional" damage model it would definitely be a good thing, IMO.

 

[saint_dracula]

I couldn't care less for damage. Because although there are a few damages in F1, it's not THAT often enough to be important.

 

[FC3S-D]

Damage would be nice. Falling parts, heating clutch, blown tire... makes the gaming experience awesome. I just want to be able to ram an AI and make it flip over

 

[RedOak]

Damage would be nice. Falling parts, heating clutch, blown tire... makes the gaming experience awesome. I just want to be able to ram an AI and make it flip over

Make that "spectacular".

 

[Mt. Lynx]

I couldn't care less for damage. Because although there are a few damages in F1, it's not THAT often enough to be important.

And you saw the opening race in Australia I presume?

Damage is actually a very large factor in racing, and not only from collisions and runoffs, but failing parts as well.
I´d like to see punctures, overheating, hydraulic failures, bursting brakelines etc. None of that is very visual in terms of crumples and dents, but will set you off to the pits for repair. Frustrating of course, but hey, that´s racing for you!
In fact, PD has the engineware allready, so an implementation of the rest shouldn´t be that hard.

And of course performance damage is way more important than visual damage, since the effect on performance is way more immersive than dents and bruises on your car!

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

I couldn't care less for damage. Because although there are a few damages in F1, it's not THAT often enough to be important.

Oh, the possibility of damage is there alright (last GP?), everytime. It's just that for the most part drivers are good enough to avoid collisions.

Question is, will drivers in GT5 be good enough to avoid collisions themselves?

 

[afc2112]

That's the BIG question a lot of people want answered...And one we'll just have to wait for. Anyway, some fender to fender contact is just good hard racing.

And a little o/t. That last GP was a joke! Another hour and there might not have been a finisher!!! lol

 

[deadlyz33]

I want to pay for my sins.

 

[Tenacious D]

A happy medium can definitely be reached. Forza's performance and collision models worked well, but the graphics could be improved on. PD's strength is graphics. Something similar to Forza's performance damage model and a similar physics based collision effects model with better graphics would be just what the doctor ordered!

While I don't think Kazunori-dono would go for Forza style partial damage, he might compromise. He actually mulled that over in an interview last year, that realistic damage was too punishing. I'd actually be happy with Forza level damage, and the ability to turn damage OFF for endurance races. I'm amazed it's coming for Prologue at all, as Kaz stated that damage was hard to code to suit his demands, so the consensus was that it wouldn't be implemented in GT5P. We'll be finding out ourselves later this year what he settled on.

 

[Lakebone]

But then what will happen to people who are new to GT and are learning?
They crash a few times accidentally because they don't know when to brake or how hard to brake etc and as a result, even when they improve, the hosts will just take a look at the damage record, see the "learner" damage and not let them join?

If its a crashes/races ratio it would work but i dont want to get punished if i get hit, yesterday i got smashed in to a wall and got time penalty for it.

 

[Earth]

I've had a change of heart.

I now believe damage is VERY important in GT5

As someone who has hundreds of online races under their belt with damage on I can tell you it is very important.

True, at times someone can take you and perhaps themselves out, but in the end damage is for the better.

I've been watching youtube videos of GT5 Prologue online where everybody just drifts up and slams the walls at High Speed Ring with little speed decrease and no damage. The driver who is cautious and takes the correct line is punished.

You might say "What if they ram me off the track and destroy my car?" Well from my vast online racing experience I can tell you its your job to avoid other drivers. If they're riding your tail just pull over and let them by and wait for them to make a mistake which they almost always do and pass them back.

The key to winning online with damage is to make it through the first few corners cleanly, and that means letting other drivers by if necessary, and then start picking them off 1 by 1. A dirty/bad driver won't be able to keep up as he will get damage or spin out frequently

As for endurance races, I've been a part of online endurance races that featured damage and others with no damage. I can tell you the races with damage the drivers tend to use caution, though some are still idiots, but the endurance races without damage bring out the worst in drivers. They tend to show little respect in their driving without the fear of damage.

I have confidence GT5 online will be much better than Prologue partly due to damage

 

[toyota_gt1]

I've had a change of heart.

I now believe damage is VERY important in GT5

As someone who has hundreds of online races under their belt with damage on I can tell you it is very important.

True, at times someone can take you and perhaps themselves out, but in the end damage is for the better.

I've been watching youtube videos of GT5 Prologue online where everybody just drifts up and slams the walls at High Speed Ring with little speed decrease and no damage. The driver who is cautious and takes the correct line is punished.

You might say "What if they ram me off the track and destroy my car?" Well from my vast online racing experience I can tell you its your job to avoid other drivers. If they're riding your tail just pull over and let them by and wait for them to make a mistake which they almost always do and pass them back.

The key to winning online with damage is to make it through the first few corners cleanly, and that means letting other drivers by if necessary, and then start picking them off 1 by 1. A dirty/bad driver won't be able to keep up as he will get damage or spin out frequently

As for endurance races, I've been a part of online endurance races that featured damage and others with no damage. I can tell you the races with damage the drivers tend to use caution, though some are still idiots, but the endurance races without damage bring out the worst in drivers. They tend to show little respect in their driving without the fear of damage.

I have confidence GT5 online will be much better than Prologue partly due to damage

Very good point.

 

[meuhey]

thats the kind of point i agree, and very well done damage makes it unique.

 

[su27killer]

1. Its important.
2. I dont care for visual damage, carmakers care though because they dont wanna see their cars smashed (especially some exotics).

Conclusion : include damage except visual, everybody happy. Of course random damage should be excluded, so it would be only drivers failure or mistake of other drivers in grid. LFS-type damage would be the best (except visual if carmakers make appeal).

 

[jakesky40]

I have a book about the gran turismo series that was made when gt4 was released. At the end Kazunori said that they have been working on a damage system since development of GT3 started and if it appears in Gt5 it will be the most accurate and realistic damage simulator in the world. He also said he would not put it in unless it was perfect and meets his vision's standard. Well, as we all know by now that it is coming in fall, I for one, am going crazy with waiting for it. And I think that people should stop ripping on Gran Turismo for not having damage. When it comes out it will blow everyones minds!

 

[Spec M]

Oh, the possibility of damage is there alright (last GP?), everytime. It's just that for the most part drivers are good enough to avoid collisions.

Question is, will drivers in GT5 be good enough to avoid collisions themselves?

Well stated SN

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

Well stated SN

Thank you, sir!

 

[Bones Brigade]

While I don't think Kazunori-dono would go for Forza style partial damage, he might compromise. He actually mulled that over in an interview last year, that realistic damage was too punishing. I'd actually be happy with Forza level damage, and the ability to turn damage OFF for endurance races. I'm amazed it's coming for Prologue at all, as Kaz stated that damage was hard to code to suit his demands, so the consensus was that it wouldn't be implemented in GT5P. We'll be finding out ourselves later this year what he settled on.

I think it makes sense that it is coming for GT5p. We have an admittance that someone from PD reads forums (specifically this one.) Then we have a cry for no ABS and then Spec II. And Kaz announces there will be many updates along the way. It's definitely pointing to GT5p as a test bed to make everything right. If damage is in GT5p, PD will know what to change about it for GT5. Just like online. Hopefully they are mulling it over about their rubber banding system and will rework that for GT5 online.

Anyway, I think I have also changed my mind. I didn't care for damage but I see now the importance. But it better effect the physics the right way. I don't just want my car to veer to the left or right like that stuff in GT2. And more importantly crash physics need to be worked on. The AI still drive on rails and barely move (if at all) when you shunt, rub or bump one of them or them to you. AI needs to have the same consequences implemented upon their cars as the players do. If I make a mistake and bump a guy off the road into a wall at 100mph, I want his day to be done, as well as mine.

 

[toyota_gt1]

Well now that it looks as if were gonna have damage, at least people probably won't be driving like idiots as often.

 

[Spec M]

Well now that it looks as if were gonna have damage, at least people probably won't be driving like idiots as often.

Yes hopefully. But it may give them even more of a reason.
From my experiences with Forza it seems that some are just
amused by destruction, while others have crippled my vehicle
so they can get that garunteed when.

 

[deadlyz33]

Yes hopefully. But it may give them even more of a reason.
From my experiences with Forza it seems that some are just
amused by destruction, while others have crippled my vehicle
so they can get that guaranteed when.

Thats why when you play online you should have to pay for you cars damage and if a crash is your fault then you should pay the other player's damage too. Or to prevent any issues like paying for someone else's accident, when the game thinks its your fault but wasn't, then just have the accused accident maker pay for his own damages and the innocent player pay nothing. This would have to be a pretty accurate system but even if not it should deter anyone from inflicting intentional damage.

The people say but then damage costs so much and you go broke in the game! Well thats why your earnings should be raised so as a result good safe drivers will be rewarded with the extra money and bad drivers will have to pay up. Also perhaps you should get a small bonus at the end of a race for 0 damage.

 

[xStretch-]

i am totaly against damage being put in, i have been a hudge fan of the series over the years and gt is the reson i own a ps3.
i just dont think damage is GT's style and its just trying to be like ****ty forza.
i think they should keep it at it is and focus on other more better acspects of the game.

think about if threre is damage and your racing online, its bad enough at the momment with these "bumper car racers" hitting you and ramming you and it will get alot worse if damage is included.

i know it is going to be in but i pray to god its optional to use it.

 

[P1]

I'm not to bothered but it would be good for private races.

 

[Jay]

I voted yes as I would like to see how GT tackles damage (how deep they go into it) but really it doesn't bother me. I do have higher prioritys though than damage.

i just dont think damage is GT's style and its just trying to be like ****ty forza.

And that means Forza is just trying to be like ****ty reality?

 

[xStretch-]

gt does not been damage to look real.