How in the Frank Bruno did Forza III do it?

[RedSuinit]

Kaz said 6 months for each car. So 41 people, maybe split into 4 groups.
So 8 cars a year x 5-6 years

That would mean 40 cars over those 5 years.

 

[Dapper]

My fear is that the casuals and bad journalists won't think that way. They are the great majority and GT5 needs them. But maybe I'm just overreacting.

The 'casuals' don't know about anything that is of a worry to usual GTPlaneteer. That comes from having friends that are GT fans, but do not come to GTPlanet. Although, I could be totally wrong.

 

[ic3d3mon]

i honestly did hope at least half of the 1000 would be premium, i will still love GT5 regardless, but still slightly dissapointed but happy with the other additions to the series

 

[McLaren]

-GT1:first game of the gender
-GT2:world class GT racing and a lot of content like cars, rallying
-GT3:introduction to the ps2 technology and featuring an evolved content from GT2
-GT4:apart from the 700 cars,the modelling of a mayor number world tracks,photomode,also the introduction of more advance gameplay stiles like driving missions
-GT5p:introduction of cockpit view ,the first experiment in new consoles
-GTPSP:introduction of 850cars an 70 tracks in handheld(sadly didn't feature a GT mode which was an easy meat for critics and a mayor fault by PD)

And by GT5 we are getting even more innovation than:

FM1:first introduction of the gender in xbox,livery editor,online racing
FM2:more cars,less tracks,more livery editor,photomode
FM3:cockpit view,and remake of the FM1 tracks

So now the spot of whining by copycat fans will be the standards,but at the end the copycat fans will end up buying it

This is why no one takes your posts seriously. Because you write long sentences, trying to inject emotion into them. Then you write a sentence for the opposition saying, "Has this. Has this. Has this."

And you talk about trying to be fair. Please go away with this nonsense.

 

[JDMKING13]

http://classygamer.blogspot.com/2010/02/forza-motorsport-3-what-went-wrong.html 💡

 

[McLaren]

http://classygamer.blogspot.com/2010/02/forza-motorsport-3-what-went-wrong.html 💡

It's a bit hard to take a blog that shows a strong dislike for Microsoft when it turns around & talks about how the same idea will work well for Sony.

But then again, a lot of people here already seem to follow that philosophy. Of course, it's also a bit humorous that that is the only blog GT fans seem interested in posting on here.

 

[alucard0712]

http://classygamer.blogspot.com/2010/02/forza-motorsport-3-what-went-wrong.html 💡

I always knew it!(but for that time few pepole understands me)
T10 knows HOW TO SELL their product.It's all hype around Forza.There is NO more worse thing for game as being BORING.Forza 3 is boring, even more boring than Forza 2!It's most boring game I've ever played.How they can even do it so boring?It's very hard to do such boring game...Definitive boring game...

 

[JDMKING13]

It's a bit hard to take a blog that shows a strong dislike for Microsoft when it turns around & talks about how the same idea will work well for Sony.

But then again, a lot of people here already seem to follow that philosophy. Of course, it's also a bit humorous that that is the only blog GT fans seem interested in posting on here.

Sorry if you didn't like the article, but the thread reads HOW in the Frank Lloyd did Forza III do it?. Im just answering the question in my opinion. Say what you want McLaren he also said he was pumped up for the game like many people were, and even said it has some good feature with good graphics, however it just does not live up to its simulation title.

@ alucard0712 Yea man no doubt i was pumped for this game, turned out to be Forza2 with better graphics. The career mode what really disappointed me the most it's so boring

 

[McLaren]

Sorry if you didn't like the article, but the thread reads HOW in the Frank Lloyd did Forza III do it?. Im just answering the question in my opinion. Say what you want McLaren he also said he was pumped up for the game like many people were, and even said it has some good feature with good graphics, however it just does not live up to its simulation title.

The thread also asks how did they achieve the amount of cars they did with interiors, not how the gameplay is.

 

[alucard0712]

^^^ Worst of all - I am fooled too!I bought it...AGAIN! (exact same as with Forza 2!)
Always love GT, but in beginning of T10 PR company I started to think - "well, seems like forza is better, PD make a mistake".How I wrong, how I wrong...

 

[JDMKING13]

The thread also asks how did they achieve the amount of cars they did with interiors, not how the gameplay is.

And again my answer is when you sacrifice game play you can achive many things such as 400 OK cockpits.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

There are so many points in that blog where T10 and FM3 could be swapped out for PD and GT and it would be just as accurate. The censorship going on on the official forums? You don't think that'll happen with Sony's once GT5 is released?

People here still talk about GT4 being a good simulation. I don't see how, because that article mentions something that's incredibly obvious in GT4; the lack of any proper RWD antics. The one positive thing about GT4 though is that it lays such a huge penalty on anything putting any power to the front wheels (whether FF or 4WD), that 4WD cars don't rule the lap times. It also means a Civic Type-R is almost 2sec slower to 60mph than it should be... but hey, trade-off. Going by the 370Z TT demo though, they've seemed to lock down RWD physics a lot better. We'll see how they manage any other drivetrains.

I imagine if GT5 introduced some kind of PI-similar setup to FM3, we'd also see certain cars dominating leaderboards. It's bound to happen, and I don't blame T10 for that one; it would take stupid amounts of testing to get a completely balanced system like that in place, especially with 400 cars.

...for a split second, I thought Greenwalt had actually taken the time to respond. Then I just realized there's a good chance it was probably a member from here.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

The thread also asks how did they achieve the amount of cars they did with interiors, not how the gameplay is.

Simple answer is they rushed the rest of the game which is why they managed to fit in so many interiors. Unfortunately FM3 has so many examples of a rushed game.

Here in the UK we call these type of people cowboys. Infact Turn 10 should appear on a program called rogue traders.

 

[Cobra_NZ]

The thread also asks how did they achieve the amount of cars they did with interiors, not how the gameplay is.

There is no denying that FM3 could and should have been better, but like you say, this thread touches on the 3D modelling aspect of 400+ cars. The 3D modellers don't have much to do with the gameplay...

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

I imagine if GT5 introduced some kind of PI-similar setup to FM3, we'd also see certain cars dominating leaderboards. It's bound to happen, and I don't blame T10 for that one; it would take stupid amounts of testing to get a completely balanced system like that in place, especially with 400 cars.

....

I agree what your saying to a certain degree. However when I recieved my copy of FM3 it only took me 20mins to realise Turn 10 had made some errors i.e AWD swap. This should of been noticed whilst testing especially after I noticed the problem after 20mins.

Another problem is how on earth could you add 1090hp with very little effect on your P.I. The answer is because this error was also in FM2 which illustrates to me that FM3 was using the same game engine as FM2.

 

[Cobra_NZ]

...Another problem is how on earth could you add 1090hp with very little effect on your P.I. ...

OK, which car can you do this in? I've never seen anyting like it and I've been playing the game since release date. If nothing else I'm going to try it myself.

 

[alucard0712]

There is no denying that FM3 could and should have been better, but like you say, this thread touches on the 3D modelling aspect of 400+ cars. The 3D modellers don't have much to do with the gameplay...

They even don't fix things by DLC...Forza is 8 month from now, they haven't fix anything serious.T10 only worried about money and popularity.

 

[McLaren]

They even don't fix things by DLC...Forza is 8 month from now, they haven't fix anything serious.T10 only worried about money and popularity.

They actually did for a while there b/c they listened to the community unlike PD who ignored us until GT5 finally got around.

And again my answer is when you sacrifice game play you can achive many things such as 400 OK cockpits.

Sorry, but that's not accurate at all. Esp. not when your fellow GT supporters are arguing about how they just farm the modeling work out to other companies who will have no impact on gameplay.

 

[Cobra_NZ]

They even don't fix things by DLC...Forza is 8 month from now, they haven't fix anything serious.T10 only worried about money and popularity.

That I can't argue with, and to be honest I don't understand why. There are countless errors reported by FM fans but instead of fixing those T10 are making new models for DLC. Worst still, it's not as is FM4 might have them fixed. Plenty errors reported by FM2 players made it into car models in FM3.

I feel it's a QC issue, that when this outsourced work makes it back at T10 studios it should then be gone over and over again to ensure a quality product. At the moment FM franchise doesn't have a lot of bragging rights when it comes to car model fidelity and QC...

EDIT: I understand from McLaren that some car models have been corrected but I can see plenty more errors every time I play the game... Maybe there is hope then. I just wish that T10 upped their QC. I'm a bit gutted that a lot of race cars don't have working ccockpit instruments.

 

[Scaff]

I imagine if GT5 introduced some kind of PI-similar setup to FM3, we'd also see certain cars dominating leaderboards. It's bound to happen, and I don't blame T10 for that one; it would take stupid amounts of testing to get a completely balanced system like that in place, especially with 400 cars.

GT5P already does, the PP system and yes certain cars have been able to dominate. That they have then tweaked the PP system a couple of times is a credit to PD.

However it should always be remembered that in the real world, even with the best attempts at equalisation, certain cars dominate certain areas of the sport. Unless a strict formula (i.e. set chassis, engine, gearbox, etc) approach is taken that will always be the case, so its not surprising that both T10 and PD find problems getting it right.

What is worrying in regard to T10 is that they have done nothing about the AWD domination, this same issue has arisen countless times in the real world and sporting bodies have always moved to correct it. The one that springs to mind for me was Audi with the A4 in the BTCC back in the days of the Super Touring class, they put a weight penalty on AWD with a few races after they saw it was quite clearly unbalancing the racing.


Regards

Scaff

 

[McLaren]

EDIT: I understand from McLaren that some car models have been corrected but I can see plenty more errors every time I play the game... Maybe there is hope then. I just wish that T10 upped their QC.

As do I. My main beef is normally their interior dash models, whether it's the speedometer in the Ford GT disappearing or the XKRS being able to "top out" so fast. Stuff like that should have been caught during the last 2 months.

 

[Cobra_NZ]

As do I. My main beef is normally their interior dash models, whether it's the speedometer in the Ford GT disappearing or the XKRS being able to "top out" so fast. Stuff like that should have been caught during the last 2 months.

In a perfect work both GT5 and FM3, or FM4 who knows, will be polished and finished, well supported and patched regularly. The reality has been different and being as much of an automotive nut I put too much hope and get more than disappointed when they don't deliver.

Off-Topic: TDU2 is looking really good and may be a good fix for a while. Might also check out NFS Shift this weekend, better late than never.

 

[alucard0712]

That I can't argue with, and to be honest I don't understand why. There are countless errors reported by FM fans but instead of fixing those T10 are making new models for DLC. Worst still, it's not as is FM4 might have them fixed. Plenty errors reported by FM2 players made it into car models in FM3.

I feel it's a QC issue, that when this outsourced work makes it back at T10 studios it should then be gone over and over again to ensure a quality product. At the moment FM franchise doesn't have a lot of bragging rights when it comes to car model fidelity and QC...

EDIT: I understand from McLaren that some car models have been corrected but I can see plenty more errors every time I play the game... Maybe there is hope then. I just wish that T10 upped their QC. I'm a bit gutted that a lot of race cars don't have working ccockpit instruments.

They need to add/fix:

1.Option to disable hidden "permanent steering assist", it leads to 2nd >
2.How the steering wheel rotates.(steering wheel is connected to front car wheels, which is always corrected by steering assist)
GT5,NFS,Dirt 2 are good examples how it should be (at least look).
3.Disable FOV auto adjustment - it's VERY CHEAP WAY to "enhance" sense of speed.In Burnout,NFS,Motorstorm it's ok, but in "definitive sim" game - I doubt...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
4.When I change FOV and want to play HOT LAP, 50% chance that game will hang-up.
(FOV 68, Ferrari F40, Suzuka hot lap = 3 times hang-up @ latest update)
5.Disable "instant brake" when out of track.
6.Do not mix GT class with other, just like in FM2.
7.Make credits more easy to acquire.I can buy REAL MONEY DLC, but can't afford car in-game.What the hell is that?
8.In "HOT LAP" MY off-line top 10 lap times don't even shown.And what kind of "hot lap" is that.It's just NOT FITTING IN MY BRAIN.

First 3 are *major* ones for me.If they were fixed I will even buy a new Forza 3 disk (theoretically I mean).

BTW - they never fix it, they already make a money, and doing DLC's again only for money.

In a perfect work both GT5 and FM3, or FM4 who knows, will be polished and finished, well supported and patched regularly. The reality has been different and being as much of an automotive nut I put too much hope and get more than disappointed when they don't deliver.[

I really doubt that.That what I'm talking about.We all fooled.Forza 2 promises be the best definitive racing game...FAIL...Forza 3 promises exactly the same...FAIL...
It's even funny that years ago we compare Forza 2 to GT5P...Now I doubt that Forza 4 (yes 4) can be "better" than GT5P (yes Prologue).

We can't expect good game from such kind of developers.(T10)

 

[Cobra_NZ]

...I really doubt that. That what I'm talking about. We all fooled. Forza 2 promises be the best definitive racing game...FAIL...Forza 3 promises exactly the same...FAIL...
It's even funny that years ago we compare Forza 2 to GT5P...Now I doubt that Forza 4 (yes 4) can be "better" than GT5P (yes Prologue).

We can't expect good game from such kind of developers.(T10)

Ah, now you start bashing T10 and FM franchise. Nice lead up. Well I disagree. I actually do see big improvements from FM to FM2 and FM3 and expect more in FM4. Maybe not as many improvements as I would like but nevertheless. So to say it's FAIL is a bit much. I have to also say that 3 versions of FM in the time that GT5 is still in the making has certainly helped give me my virtual driving fix.

Also, I believe that PD and GT franchise have also made plenty of failed promises, kept us fans in the dark and lead us up the garden path. Sorry, but I like both games and am critical of both at the same time in a fair fashion.

 

[alucard0712]

^^^ Man but it's true!!!Don't you see?You can think and discuss that forever, even make a really good things from bad things (it's a matter and "power" of words), but what is oblivious is oblivious.

Why we don't talk about PD that way?It's oblivious.PD are gods.They don't think about money too much - they make their dreams alive - and money comes "by itself".It's a common rule.I mean they USE MONEY FOR PURPOSE, for their dream.Again.
If GT lacks somewhat - it's only on features that GT do not have at all (damage,on-line), but features that already exist are TOP-NOTCH.(except on-line in GT5P)
Reverse on Forza.Forza itself grows up on features that GT don't have, because if the same feature exist in both games - GT will lead without a doubt.(except on-line in GT5P)

BTW - I'm trying to say that T10 CAN fix those things, but don't fix them because...they don't worry OR maybe holding up for FM4, to make even more money.Again T10 make it for money and ambitions, not because they dream t about that

(I'm not scaming T10 because of nothing, that is a summary of all what I see from what they say, and games THAT I BOUGHT)

 

[Spagetti69]

Are you saying that PD don't care about money.

The mind boggles.

 

[alucard0712]

I didn't say that.Read carefully.

 

[drummermaniac]

Are you saying that PD don't care about money.

The mind boggles.

I think "Sony" care (GT is a system seller) , PD doesn´t look worried about it , they simply create their "thing" . Turn 10 has a lot more to proof , they want to beat the GT Franchise , quality of content created , quantity , sales and marketing , they´re failing on some of this aspects .

 

[SuperCobraJet]

GT5P already does, the PP system and yes certain cars have been able to dominate. That they have then tweaked the PP system a couple of times is a credit to PD.

However it should always be remembered that in the real world, even with the best attempts at equalisation, certain cars dominate certain areas of the sport. Unless a strict formula (i.e. set chassis, engine, gearbox, etc) approach is taken that will always be the case, so its not surprising that both T10 and PD find problems getting it right.

What is worrying in regard to T10 is that they have done nothing about the AWD domination, this same issue has arisen countless times in the real world and sporting bodies have always moved to correct it. The one that springs to mind for me was Audi with the A4 in the BTCC back in the days of the Super Touring class, they put a weight penalty on AWD with a few races after they saw it was quite clearly unbalancing the racing.


Regards

Scaff

Excellent point.

Which just goes to show, the more real the sim becomes, the more real problems are reflected in the sim.

Additionally, even with a strict formula by the sanctioning bodies, it still happens. However, at times this is due to undetected or ignored stretching and/or breaking of said strict formula.

Of such is the world of motorsports.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

Lets be honest Turn 10 or MS have made a massive mistake in trying to introduce casual racers and forgetting the hardcore loyal fanbase. Prior to FM3 being released I said this short term gain could mean long term loss and thats exactly how its panned out. Many have left FM3 and are seriously wary of purchasing another racing game from Turn 10. For example the racing team that I belong to was formed back in the FM1 days. The grand total of TRC members currently playing FM3 stands at zero and many have even traded FM3 in.

Lets not delude ourselves the Forza franchise is not even close to challenging GT. I say this based on sales because FM3 sold 2 million copies and GT5P sold 4.9 million copies. Only when the forza franchise sells similiar amount of copies can it be a real competitor against GT.

Still I think deep down Turn 10 know this already. Cast your minds back to E3 2009 when Turn 10 were very arrogant in their presentation and this was followed by the community manager offering free cars if the FM.Net community voted for FM3 in a meaningless poll. Why did they behave in this manner? simple answer is because deep down they knew FM3 cannot compete against GT5 and had to resort to other tactics!!

I will add all of the above is based on my opinion without any facts!