How in the Frank Bruno did Forza III do it?

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God you don't see it! You are making it out like PD mislead us and made all these promises. They didn't! They didn't even mislead us. We have known for a long time not all cars would look like the premium cars as there was always a distinction between standard and premium.

No person with half a brain would be dumb enough to market a product before it is released and state something people would perceive negatively. That still doesn't suggest PD lied though as they told us there would be a difference. We inferred by ourselves what these differences would be so the only person who has lied to you was yourself in thinking there wasn't going to be a distinction between standard and premium cars.

As for the release date? The only delay there has been has been from March this year to November this year for the JAPANESE market. Nowhere else in the world. The game has not had a release date or even a window.

Go ahead be disappointed and cry or whatever. YOU are the one with unrealistic expectations and made your own ideas of what GT5 was going to be without PD saying a thing.

Yeah, now im the ONLY person here not happy, LOL . Also there been many date, not concrete dates but many times he said "GT5 is going to be at the end 2007", "middle of 2008", "*laught* why do you think the game is so far away? its going to be soon (and then 2 years passed). This game has been delayed lots of times.

We knew about the term of standard and premium but he always refeared to this as some car will have damage and other no, damageable interriors, at first the premium was suppouse to be the racing cars.

And please dont act like this is the first time he say something and doesnt fill what he said: GT4 online, GT5p damage addon, GT5 release time frames.

So yes, Kaz is missleading and there was many ways to prevent this.
 
Sorry but what has your "point" to do with this? they have showed us all time great level of detail, they been talking about the 1000 cars, videos after videos of car porn and then suddenly they came with "80% of the cars will come from GT4" , thats dissapointed, promised or not because it was kind of implied.

They have been working for about 6 years, we have been waiting for full 3 years of delays (and this was promised) to get this fiasco move? in a 60+ millions of dollar game?? Im disappointed and i have all the right feel like this. Even when he did not promise 1000 cars with interiors every time that the game was delayed and people asking about why was delayed he used the "a car takes 6 month to be done" or the "expect perfection" card. So yes, at this point lots of us were expecting 1000 cars in that level of detail, not just 200.

Sorry but Kaz have made bad choices and i dont see why i should idolize him like you are doingl, im a fan but im not unconditional.

What is sad is that you are crying so much about other people opinion, if you dont feel like this good you, but you can hide the fact that this could have been prevented and there was better choices like outsourcing.

I don't mean to jump in, but Paladin, were you around here at last year's TGS? That was the beginning of the great Premium/Standard debate. The one that started it all. People were upset at that time, but then it calmed down because assumptions began that "interior" didn't mean cockpit and that it meant details under the hood and undersides.

So it was "kind of implied" that 800 cars won't have interior views from way back then. We have to admit that since then, we were in DENIAL and that's how all of this is happening with so many being majorly upset.

On your other point, you contradicted yourself. You're aware of the six months time span for the premium cars, yet you expect 1000 to be done at this point? There's no logic in that.

Also, outsourcing is not as simple as you think it is. They'd have to put up much more money in the development costs, plus some time in educating those outside sources. If there were preventive measures, what would you suggests?
 
Why couldn't PD get as many cockpits done as Turn 10?

This is why.

staffsizecomparison-1.jpg


Turn 10 reused/updated an old engine, PD made a new one from scratch, not to mention had 3 times the amount of members that PD had...


So.. why Kaz could not do the same, i mean outsource the 3D modelling, after all they have lots of resources, probably much more than Turn10 (and they already have recover most of those with GT5p).
 
By far, these are GT4 models, way inferior to almost any model of this gen.
I wouldn't go that far at all. GT4 models were actually very-well modified when they created, but had to be downsized for the PS2. Now that they have the PS3, Polyphony is able to use the models as they originally intended.

I believe Famine can really elaborate on this.
 
I wouldn't go that far at all. GT4 models were actually very-well modified when they created, but had to be downsized for the PS2. Now that they have the PS3, Polyphony is able to use the models as they originally intended.

Yes those model's get done in something like Maya, but the issue is because back then there wasn't a need for higher end model's they were never really done so alot of the fine detail was left out because the ps2 couldn't render it anyways.
It's completely different things, if polyphony felt the need they could have modeled and rendered GT5 quality cars back in 2000 for GT3, but what was the use if you can't run it.

I am simply crossing my fingers that they just end up upgrading the livery textures, on the regular single colour cars it looks fine, but on the audi r8 there is a clear lack of texture resolution.

Out of curiosity, I don't remember the Oreca R8 being in Gt4 0_o?
 
I wouldn't go that far at all. GT4 models were actually very-well modified when they created, but had to be downsized for the PS2. Now that they have the PS3, Polyphony is able to use the models as they originally intended.

I believe Famine can really elaborate on this.

They are extremely well done for the PS2 time but now they are way behind, probably PD smooth the surface (quite easy and fast to do) and bump up the textures but they completely lack of interior, the headlights are just textures, etc. The only good thing is they made the proportion of the cars very well and they are under a great lighning but the models itself are way too basic for this gen. Those cars must have around 15.000-20.000 at best (GT4 was about 4k).
Name a game in this gen that uses licensed cars and have cars like the GT5 standard level?

Y
Out of curiosity, I don't remember the Oreca R8 being in Gt4 0_o?

Its from GT PSP (retextured), same goes for the Countach LP400.
 
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Name a game in this gen that uses licensed cars and have cars like the GT5 standard level?

If you're talking about the exterior, I think PD's standard cars are better than most. The cockpit, of course not as they don't have any to begin with.

Now...name a game in this gen that uses licensed cars and have cars like the GT5 premium level?... and have over 200 of them.
 
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So.. why Kaz could not do the same, i mean outsource the 3D modelling, after all they have lots of resources, probably much more than Turn10 (and they already have recover most of those with GT5p).

I'm not saying whether they should have or not, I'm just posting factual numbers as to why they were able to do more in less time.
 
Name a game in this gen that uses licensed cars and have cars like the GT5 premium level?... and have over 200 of them.

Name a developer of racing games that can 6 years and more of 60 millions dollars to make a game? I think many other can do similar with outsourced 3d modelling companies and all that time to polish. Plus, why we need that stupid high level of detail in the first place? (full detailed rear seats!) , that premium level is impractical, plus its going to look quite weird in a race when you have both premium and standard cars.

I'm not saying whether they should have or not, I'm just posting factual numbers as to why they were able to do more in less time.

Sure i got your point and im naming what they could have done instead of giving us 800 standard cars and 3 years of delays.
 
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They are extremely well done for the PS2 time but now they are way behind, probably PD smooth the surface (quite easy and fast to do) and bump up the textures but they completely lack of interior, the headlights are just textures, etc.

Um, they are not way behind. I'd be willing to bet, judging from the Standard Car Trailer, that they are actually as good as Forza 3's just because so much detail can now be shown. They lack interior views, but as far as the exteriors go, they are well detailed.

And btw, not all of them lack detail. Most of the convertibles in GT4 had decently modeled interiors.
re i got your point and im naming what they could have done instead of giving us 800 standard cars and 3 years of delays.
There were no delays. The closest thing to a release date we got before now was a March 2010 TBA.
 
Name a developer of racing games that can 6 years and more of 60 millions dollars to make a game? I think many other can do similar with outsourced 3d modelling companies and all that time to polish. Plus, why we need that stupid high level of detail in the first place? (full detailed rear seats!) , that premium level is impractical, plus its going to look quite weird in a race when you have both premium and standard cars.

Well, that's a completely different point, and you have to remember that not all of that 60 million dollars is spent on just modeling cars, which is what all this is all about. Look at the overall scale of the game and understand why it turns out to be that much.

Also, if a car is to look good on the outside, then surely the inside should too. However, no we don't need such detail, so that would mean that the black frame in GTPSP is ok with you then? If so, you're in luck... K maybe you want FM3 level cockpits in 1000 cars. Even that, imagine the amount of work and time that would take at PD's effort. You keep talking about outsourcing, but don't know how complicated that can be.

Just imagine this, what you're thinking now, they probably have thought about already.
 
Code:
Title		Released/ing	Console		Cars		Tracks
Gran Turismo	1997/1998	PlayStation	178		11
Gran Turismo 2	1999/2000	PlayStation	650		27
Gran Turismo 3	2001		PlayStation 2	180+		34
Gran Turismo 4	2005		PlayStation 2	722		51
Gran Turismo 5	2010		PlayStation 3	1000+		20
Gran Turismo 6	2016		PlayStation 3	1500+		40

You heard it here first! :lol:

Shoutouts to Wikipedia's Gran Turismo article for GT1/2/3/4/5 data


Date difference between GT1 & GT2 (1st generation) ~ 2yrs = 2(generation)
Date difference between GT3 & GT4 (2nd generation) ~ 4yrs = 2(generation)
Date difference between GT5 & GT6 (3rd generation) ~ 6yrs = 2(generation)

Difference between GT4 and GT2 cars = 72
Difference between GT5 and GT3 cars = 820
Difference between GT3 and GT1 cars = 2
(72+820+2)/2 = 447 but round up to 500 for optimism so 1000+500 cars for GT6

Tracks:
GT2 had 2.45 times the amount of tracks of GT1
GT4 had 1.5 times the amount of track of GT3
Average is ~2 so GT6 will have 2*20 tracks

Now if you graph the function f(x)= ...
 
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Polyphony could have done it if they were willing to compromise on quality. I'm glad they haven't. The Forza interiors are inferior by far and did not impress me at all... I like to play GT using bumper cam, but the incredible interiors in Prologue sometimes entice me in to the cockpit view.
 
Sure i got your point and im naming what they could have done instead of giving us 800 standard cars and 3 years of delays.

In all seriousness, yes they should have either massively increased their staff size or outsource some modelling work. They're probably averse to outsourcing, but for such a massive franchise it's really inexcusable that they didn't increase the staff size.

Mind you, that's not PD or Kaz's decision to make, but Sony's.
 
110 is a low staff count for a big name studio these days, if it truly does take 6 months to make a single premium car then an extra 40 dedicated modellers could have given us an extra 240 premium level cars over the past 3 years and almost 500 premium level cars would be a massive achievement and not such a poor 20/80 ratio.

Insomniac games have 200 staff and are by no means a huge name in gaming.

Iam very much hoping that upon release PD set all there modellers and hire more for the simply task of free dlc upgrades for existing standard cars and only charging for dlc with new content.
 
Iam very much hoping that upon release PD set all there modellers and hire more for the simply task of free dlc upgrades for existing standard cars and only charging for dlc with new content.

That's what I'm hoping as well. They're obviously going to continue modelling premium cars for future GT's, so any standard car that's been turned into premium could be offered as free DLC. They'll be able to use these models again in GT6 so it's not like they'd be doing all the work for free. Bit optimistic maybe.
 
Can't see them making cars for GT6 and in the meantime give them to you for free.
That's a bit odd.
 
Jesus Christ, some people are so pathetic. It confounds me that such sheer stupidity exists in this world. Idiots.

I think everyone knows which group of people i am referring to.
 
Hello everybody, this is my first post. In fact, I've been reading GTPlanet since always. But never had any need to post.

However this time I wanted to say my own few words. By the way, the process of registering gave me a hard time, as I was asked to form the proper abbreviation for "Gran Turismo". I had to search for my dictionary (I'm not an English native) to find out what does abbreviation mean. :)

Okay, to the topic. I find on this board during the last days many bitter words about the game and PD, especially in comparison to T10's game.

I strongly believe, that mr Yamauchi made the best thing he could.

1. Many people say here, that car rendering should have been out-sourced, so the overall number of premium cars could be higher. In my opinion it's a bad idea, even though that's probably the future of gaming.

Why? Well, just look at the motor industry nowadays. You find one engine in many cars from different brands etc. Many people call my Volvo S40 a Focus in a more expensive skin. It makes the cars cheaper and easier to maintain. But you have to say that they lose their individual feeling.

Would you really want your precious and so anticipated GT5 to be like that? With engine made in PD and cars all around the world, with bad quality control and stuff? It is impossible for PD to get the quality they want exactly by making others render the cars. The game would lose it's special own feeling.


2. In addition, you can't forget that mr Yamauchi is japanese. And that brings the japanese ethos of working. T10 just wants to make cash from the game, and when Microsoft asks them, they'll make The Sims 4. As for PD, I believe that they find working on GT as some sort of art. And I'm sure that for mr Yamauchi it's the work of life. I simply can't imagine him letting render the cars some China firm.

3. Remember, that 200 premium cars equal to 200 cars in possible GT6 on PS4. Next generation of consoles will bring even bigger jump in power. Possible next games from PD and T10 will have to keep up with that jump. Of course that T10 can simply copy their cars to that hypothetical game. But their cars lack the detail which will be needed to make a use of the next Xbox.

PD already has 200 cars ready. We can see that the models are perfect, it's no more the matter of polygons. And it's much easier to add better lighting and stuff to a ready car, than make a car from the scratch again?

Mr Yamauchi has one goal - make a perfect game. Im absolutely sure that he's aware since some time that he can't achieve it on Blu-ray, with PS3. As a step to that game, he made with PD a new superb engine, with great day/night effects, crashes and great physics. And a superb game, which is called GT5.

Mark my words, that you will face the Real driving simulator really soon. You will probably have to install it on the hard drive of your future console, because it will be too big.

You can easily wait for that playing GT5. PD doesn't need to think about their reputation, they have it. They are simply doing their job in the best way they can.

I don't have a PS3. I never had a need to get one. I'm buying it soon to drive my 800 standard cars!

Cheers
 
i dont even think forza's poly count has reached gt4 levels yet....

hahahahahahahahaha , a headlight in Forza probably have more poligons that the 7k of GT4 and by the way, Forza 1 cars have more polygons that GT4, about 15k per car.
 
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I don't mean to jump in, but Paladin, were you around here at last year's TGS? That was the beginning of the great Premium/Standard debate. The one that started it all. People were upset at that time, but then it calmed down because assumptions began that "interior" didn't mean cockpit and that it meant details under the hood and undersides.

So it was "kind of implied" that 800 cars won't have interior views from way back then. We have to admit that since then, we were in DENIAL and that's how all of this is happening with so many being majorly upset.

On your other point, you contradicted yourself. You're aware of the six months time span for the premium cars, yet you expect 1000 to be done at this point? There's no logic in that.

Also, outsourcing is not as simple as you think it is. They'd have to put up much more money in the development costs, plus some time in educating those outside sources. If there were preventive measures, what would you suggests?

6 months is the time they say, i dont buy it either, even if they reffer to the work of 1 person but the cars are made by teams, so is not about my logic, is what they say everytime there was delays. Why they didnt get more 3d artists if they didnt wanted to outsource and it was talking so long to make a car?

Outsorcing was the way to go, dont tell me about resources, Polyphony clearly have a lots of them and for you information theres a few 3d modelling companies that do cars as their speciality.

There were no delays. The closest thing to a release date we got before now was a March 2010 TBA.

Really, i mean REALLY?? there wasnt delays for GT5? there was many, this is the same as you telling me that Duke Nukem Forever didnt suffer any delay. In quite few ocations Kazunori (nothing more than the studio director) said that the game will be released in Q4 2007, Q2 2008, Q4 2008, 2009 was the year of GT where he mentioned (sony too) the game comming that year, then march 2010 and now we are at 2010 and the game still havent been released, in fact the new release date is 8 months later.
So, no delays? yeah right, Kaz has failed his own time schedule by 3 years.
 
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You alright? Look at this:

Forza 3: Peugeot 908 HDI FAP '07

Peugeot_908_Full_2.jpg

Great pic but the difference with this pic and GT5 pics are when playing GT5 you can actually see the full interior when viewing the car in replay mode or during game play. with forza the only way you can see the interior with that much detail is through photo mode not during replay mode or gameplay
 
I Believe GT6 Will be out around 2013, by that Time, Current Gen Consoles will be still Kicking due to the wave of Motion Controllers and 3D, so Polyphony will Concentrate on Modelling cars because they already have everything else done, It will be like GT3 and GT4.


That seems a Good Idea to me 👍
 
So what........... What is your point. You stated an obvious fact.
Woop de do I can see the stitching in the seatbelt fabric.


Glorious.

Threads with simple questions, deserve simple answers.

But it's obvious that very point went right over your head.
 
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