How in the Frank Bruno did Forza III do it?

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gtone339
You alright? Look at this:

Forza 3: Peugeot 908 HDI FAP '07

Peugeot_908_Full_2.jpg
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The Forza faithful in this thead seem to forget that everything they throw out as visual evidence has NOTHING to do with the game, when you know, actually play it.:sly:
 
JDMKING13
Great pic but the difference with this pic and GT5 pics are when playing GT5 you can actually see the full interior when viewing the car in replay mode or during game play. with forza the only way you can see the interior with that much detail is through photo mode not during replay mode or gameplay
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Exactly what i was saying ^^

maxpontiac
The Forza faithful in this thead seem to forget that everything they throw out as visual evidence has NOTHING to do with the game, when you know, actually play it.:sly:
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The_Paladin
6 months is the time they say, i dont buy it either, even if they reffer to the work of 1 person but the cars are made by teams, so is not about my logic, is what they say everytime there was delays. Why they didnt get more 3d artists if they didnt wanted to outsource and it was talking so long to make a car?

Outsorcing was the way to go, dont tell me about resources, Polyphony clearly have a lots of them and for you information theres a few 3d modelling companies that do cars as their speciality.



Really, i mean REALLY?? there wasnt delays for GT5? there was many, this is the same as you telling me that Duke Nukem Forever didnt suffer any delay. In quite few ocations Kazunori (nothing more than the studio director) said that the game will be released in Q4 2007, Q2 2008, Q4 2008, 2009 was the year of GT where he mentioned (sony too) the game comming that year, then march 2010 and now we are at 2010 and the game still havent been released, in fact the new release date is 8 months later.
So, no delays? yeah right, Kaz has failed his own time schedule by 3 years.
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Forget all the outsourcing and the delays for a second. Just why, exactly, are you complaining? You sound like they ripped you off, when you haven't even seen, let alone bought the actual game. I understand you're disappointed by the announcement (I was too, and judging by the forum today, so are just about everyone else) but this is going too far.

And why is everyone comparing Gran Turismo to Forza? These are two completely separate games (despite what someone *cough*Dan Greenwalt*cough* will tell you) and, whilst both are aimed at car enthusiasts, they appeal to two different types of gamers, and they should both be enjoyed in their own right, warts and all. I for one, would.

Besides, it's just a game. At the end of the day, this will just be a disc in a box. Why waste all you time, energy and patience on that?

By the way I'd like to point something out - remember when purported GTPSP "screenshots" came out (actually just GTPSP cars and tracks upscaled to GT5's engine, which, essentially, minus the tracks, is what we're actually getting for GT5)? When people made a whole lot of fuss about how it didn't even look like PS2 screenshots, let alone PSP? You certainly weren't complaining about second-rate car models back then, were you?
 
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UnhappyForzaFan
Read through a few pages of the thread. Let me try to put this to rest the best I can. Probably in the form of a rant once I start typing this out.

I loved Forza 2 when it first came out, got it release day. I tuned a MK2 Golf to U999 and used it to beat supercars the first day the game was out. Played it for a few months online and off then it grew old so I switched to COD4.

Being a real race fan, (with GT on the PS1 being my first real racing game, followed by GT2 and GT3) I enjoyed Forza 2 but it was far from perfect. I saw Forza 3 was coming out but I didnt preorder after the let down of F2 but I broke down and bought it first day anyways. It was nothing but a new GUI and with some new cars, shaders and filters. Cars were easier to tune, it felt like the physics were watered down so any casual fan could feel like a gearhead by moving a few sliders in the tuning screen and getting the car to handle better. This is why I hope GT5 wipes Forza and Turn 10's name through the mud. As most real driving fans, I want a real driving simulator. With Turn 10 creating the mockery of this concept with these latest two installments, I am now following GT5 with tenacity.

I can tell you, however Forza III did 'it', be thankful its not how PD is doing it. Forza 3 is awful compared to everything I've seen from GT5. I dont even own a PS3 yet but come November 2nd, that all will change. Every little detail in GT5 seems like it has been replicated from the source down to the tee. In Forza, it seems like they took development with an "it'll do" attitude.

I can understand some diehards have had their enthusiasm for this game has been killed over the 5 year wait but, it seems atleast it will be done the right way. I believe this all has to do with business models and not the competence of the Devs (even though GT would have one hell of a lead in that department coming out with GT1, 2 and 3 before Forza 1 was even released.) Sony and PD seem to be taking the old American business model of 'do it right' and putting the American companies, Microsoft and Turn 10, to shame with their business model of quantity over quality.

PD seems to be serving the real race fans and enthusiasts while T10 is serving the guys who get their car info from the Fast and Furious and HondaTech.net. Body and engine swaps are cool but id take a simulation factor over 3 different Vielside bumpers and a Mugen spoiler anyday. The engine swap factor is fun but its something I can live with out. Another note about Forza's DLC. Its all new cars that I dont give a rats ass about. Turn 10 has the Porsche license and the best they can come up with is a Panamera and 911 Sport Coupe? Get a ****n clue guys, I want a god damn 356, 904 and maybe the CanAm 917 with 1600 bhp, if PD had the license, there may be a good shot these cars would get their due justice.

I wont even get started on the AWD swap epidemic in that game. I would probably break my laptop in half before this gets posted, leaving me wasting my time and without a computer.

Thank god at this point for Kaz and PD. It may have taken 5 years but atleast there will be a game of quality being released.
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What is your problem, exactly? 'Cause right now you're sounding just like others on this thread who have mixed up the word "entitlement" with "expectations". Now that your "expectations" weren't met with FM3, your pissed because "T10 owes it to their fans to do this, and this, and that and they didn't so I'M OUT." What confuses me is that you contradict yourself in the same post (actually, in the third paragraph of the same post), and all I am going to assume is that you just lost your leaderboard time to an Audi S5 and felt the need to blow off some steam. Fine.

My turn.

You say that T10 is only serving the ricers and is no good for "real race fans". Well, I couldn't let that one pass as I take it as an insult because I play a lot of FM3, have played TONS of GT over the years and I can't STAND people over at hondatech.net, nor the cars they represent.

Then again, the term "real racers" is as ambiguous as KY's translator's explanations of what the word "interior" means so it's a bit of a moot point in the first place.

The 911 SC is a joke for DLC, eh? I'm surprised that you would say that because you seem to be a Porsche fan (or maybe just a fan of 1600 hp prototypes, I dunno) and as a Porsche fan, you would understand why this car is important to enthusiasts. But then, you called it a "Sport Coupe" as opposed to the proper "Sport Classic" so maybe you really don't know jack.

Anyways, only 250 have been made, it's the first 2WD Carrera (yes, 2wd just like all the cars you mentioned in your post) to use the wider GT3/4S body style/track and has styling cues (double-dome roof, wheels, ducktail spoiler, manual transmission ONLY) that recall one of the most famous Porsches of all time, the '69 RS 2.7. You have heard of that one, right?

If PD had the Porsche License they do better things with it eh? Well guess what m8: they DON'T have a Porsche License so lets just pack that one in, yeah?

I have always loved the "enthusiast" aspect of the GT series, made very evident by the inclusion of cars (Model T, Auto Union, BPMW 1883/6, Dome Zero and so on) that wouldn't really make any sense to anyone who thinks that the fact they have a F40 picture on their wall means that they are automotive enthusiasts. Which is why T10 should be commended for including the more eclectic models such as the 911 SC, Bertone Mantide, SSC Ultimate Aero and Morgan SuperSports. Like PD, T10 watches what it's competition is doing and makes its own interpretation of it.

You say "thank God for Kaz/PD". I say thank God for the fact that we enthusiasts are lucky to have these two games to choose from, and should learn that each has its compromises, each its strengths. All I'm saying is that T10 finally managed to do what no other company has done before, and really upped the ante when it comes to competition in the virtual racing world.
 
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This whole five year development cycle annoys me. People seem to disregard Tourist Trophy and GT PSP when talking about the development cycle even though both would have taken a good amount of time out of those 5 years.
 
Is it fair to say that if Turn 10 had the PS3's power their cars would look 95% as good as PD's in game?

I'm not going to take anything away from Turn 10, to me I think they are being held back by the 360

PD is much slower then Turn 10, but they have better quality car models in terms of showing every single detail including the different materials that make up the cars, plastics, glass, leather, stitching, carbon fiber etc etc
 
marchi
This whole five year development cycle annoys me. People seem to disregard Tourist Trophy and GT PSP when talking about the development cycle even though both would have taken a good amount of time out of those 5 years.
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Yup. And which is why I kept saying don't waste your time with a portable GT game, first it will take away from the 'real' game and second people will only want a sequel. Although the game wasn't a big success compared to the console releases, so few people may want a sequel. TT was alright, but really couldn't keep me interested...guess I'm partial to 4 tires :sly:

As for Forza, I actually have the cash in hand that I seriously considered buying a 360 with since wal-mart is having a good deal on them this weekend. However, for me, the 'realism' in Forza stops at the FACT that I can't use a high quality wheel on the 360...game over. Too bad cause it seems like a great racing series too :indiff:

Jerome
 
gtone339
Not as detail as I thought. :)

Check this one out. Can you describe this for me?

3586223287_d19a5e9061.jpg
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production shot, all fancied up just like the ones that Polyphony Digital always teases us with in astronomical sizes that the PS3 couldn't render at 3 frames per second...thats why it looks so much better...

also i'd like to say...that gameplay shot of the Ferrari that is always posted around here...is probably the worst i've ever seen the game look...it certainly does not look like that on my TV...not at all...

Yes, FM3 uses lower detailed models for actual gameplay...and uses higher poly models for the garage, and photomode as well...

but they do look pretty darn good...not GT5 good...but darn good nonetheless...

for instance...

gtacademy3701.jpg


gtacademyacr3.jpg


gtacademygtr.jpg


gtpacura4.jpg
 
McLaren
Forza 3 is their 3rd game.
Bullshots is an opinion. I think the game looks fine.
Holding what? The gear lever/paddles when it comes time to shift?


Personally, imo, PD should have gone Eden's route. Not super-over-the-top detail, but just as much passion into the interior models as PD while still looking marginally better than some of Turn10's "dull-grey" interiors.
990995_20100504_790screen001.jpg

990995_20100504_790screen004.jpg

990995_20100616_790screen005.jpg
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Sorry that won't happen for centuries. :lol:

Now we're hoping that P.D can produce this type of detail for the next GT game. Probably for PS4. 👍

koenigsegg_ccx_render1.jpg


koenigsegg_24_19201.jpg
 
No one said they were "OMG". But the fact is that it's still a good looking game. I'm sure Turn10 are just so upset that they didn't spend their time trying to make the game look as close to real life as possible....
 
marchi
This whole five year development cycle annoys me. People seem to disregard Tourist Trophy and GT PSP when talking about the development cycle even though both would have taken (did take) a good amount of time out of those 5 years.
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This is just what I was going to say. I would add though that while Tourist Trophy was an internal production decision by Polyphony, GT PSP was not. Kaz said over and over that GT Mobile would have to wait till after he produced his dream game, GT5. "Someone" in SONY Japan - actually, just Sony - forced him to change his mind, and it was at least a one year crater, perhaps two in GT5 development.

Also, Kaz did indeed say last year that he was going to be producing a two tier car list for GT5, simply because it would take a decade or more to model all cars to Premium level with interiors. And yes, many, many of us went into denial mode and said there was no way that those Standard models
  • would be of lesser quality, lesser detail, and fewer polygons
  • be without modeled cockpits, especially with Prologue's 100% (minus one) modeled interiors.
And some of us were very critical of GT4, such as Dave A, but insisted that doing anything less than full blown exteriors and cockpits of the same quality would be ludicrous to even suggest. The consensus among most of us was that GT5 would have simpler damage modeling for Standard cars, or perhaps none. And possibly be unable to race mod Standard cars. Kaz would repeat himself a few weeks later, and the argument would flare up again.

Well, this is what we're getting. Oh well. If you don't take these matters into account, you really have no reason to post on the matter. And, I would add, especially if you give free passes to other games. Which some of you clearly do.

Forza car models farmed out to freaking Viet NAM?! Do you suppose this is why some of the cars have blatant bugs, even the same bugs from FM2 to FW3? ;)

No, rather than farm out work, especially after what I've seen in Forza, hopefully SONY Japan will finally pony up some cash and hire additional well skilled staff for Kazunori. They really need to be shamed into it after some of their bone headed decisions. So honestly, if you want to vent at someone, rant at SONY.
 
Tenacious D
This is just what I was going to say. I would add though that while Tourist Trophy was an internal production decision by Polyphony, GT PSP was not. Kaz said over and over that GT Mobile would have to wait till after he produced his dream game, GT5. "Someone" in SONY Japan - actually, just Sony - forced him to change his mind, and it was at least a one year crater, perhaps two in GT5 development.

Also, Kaz did indeed say last year that he was going to be producing a two tier car list for GT5, simply because it would take a decade or more to model all cars to Premium level with interiors. And yes, many, many of us went into denial mode and said there was no way that those Standard models
  • wouldn't be of lesser quality, lesser detail, and fewer polygons
  • be without modeled cockpits, especially with Prologue's 100% (minus one) modeled interiors.
And some of us were very critical of GT4, such as Dave A, but insisted that doing anything less than full blown exteriors and cockpits of the same quality would be ludicrous to even suggest. The consensus among most of us was that GT5 would have simpler damage modeling for Standard cars, or perhaps none. And possibly be unable to race mod Standard cars. Kaz would repeat himself a few weeks later, and the argument would flare up again.

Well, this is what we're getting. Oh well. If you don't take these matters into account, you really have no reason to post on the matter. And, I would add, especially if you give free passes to other games. Which some of you clearly do.

Forza car models farmed out to freaking Viet NAM?! Do you suppose this is why some of the cars have blatant bugs, even the same bugs from FM2 to FW3? ;)

No, rather than farm out work, especially after what I've seen in Forza, hopefully SONY Japan will finally pony up some cash and hire additional well skilled staff for Kazunori. They really need to be shamed into it after some of their bone headed decisions. So honestly, if you want to vent at someone, rant at SONY.
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👍
 
I think it is safe to say that GT5 is the "new" GT3 and that GT6 will probably come out 2-3 years later concentrating on track and car numbers.

I also think that this is PD's way of filtering out cars of lesser importance. We will probably see a move towards more performance orientated cars rather than your typical daily cars.

My only concern for this game is the implications having premium and standard cars and customization. There was a mention of the possibility of interchanging parts on cars. Obviously this would only be possible on premium cars. Also pretty sure the livery editor would have to be limited to premium cars too as I don't think the premium cars now have textures on the body panels like GT4 cars do.
 
Source: http://e3.gamespot.com/story/6266213/gran-turismo-5-new-info-and-hands-on

Earlier today we met with Polyphony Digital's Kazunori Yamauchi and were treated to an almost hour-long presentation that showed off a number of previously unannounced features. Gran Turismo 5 still isn't finished, but its November 2 release date now appears to be set in stone, so the team at Polyphony has only a few more months to keep cramming new stuff onto the apparently almost-full Blu-ray disc. The game will purportedly be shown in its entirety at August's GamesCom event in Germany, but Yamauchi still had plenty of interesting things to talk about here at E3.

The first revelation in today's Gran Turismo 5 presentation was that, of the 1,000-plus cars featured in the game, only 200 or so will be what Yamauchi described as "premium" cars. Unlike the 800-plus "standard" cars, these will feature meticulously detailed interiors, and after collisions, their panels will be modeled in such a way that they can come apart and fully deform. The standard cars still look superb, but the level of detail just isn't the same. In fact, most of the standard cars have been taken from previous GT games and optimized for the PS3's graphics shader. For the record, even though standard cars can't be damaged in the same ways that premium models can, they'll still be susceptible to physics-based damage, dents, dirt, and scratches.

At one point during the presentation, while showing off close-ups of engines, wheels, and grilles that compared real photos to GT5 screenshots (almost impossible to distinguish between the two), Yamauchi conceded that his team has "actually gone too far in modeling some of this detail" and even went so far as to suggest that it might be "more suited to the next generation of PlayStation." The most impressive of these shots--even more impressive than the Audi wheels and ceramic brakes, or the Ferrari engine underneath a glass hood--was undoubtedly the one that showed the interior of a racecar, possibly a Nascar. The interior was absolutely packed with minute details, including a carbon fiber panel of switches and buttons, safety wires, and, of course, the driver's harness.
 
Earth
Is it fair to say that if Turn 10 had the PS3's power their cars would look 95% as good as PD's in game?
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Well they have the high res models so I don't see why not... it might also be a matter of time to optimize for the console... although I somehow doubt that being that FM3 is the second game on the console.

Basically I think T10 very well could have turned out a game that (other than backseats) rivalls the premiums in GT5 for all their cars and given 5 years on one iteration could probably pull off decent back seats for those cars too.
 
gtracedriver
Yes that pic sure does look bad lol but that was real gameplay pic just like these, which also do not look OMG
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/1715/forza3demoporsche911gt3.jpg

or this
http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/2970/94803020091023screen011.jpg
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Forza 3's "showroom" cars look 90-95% as good as PD's premium cars.

Just because the Xbox 360 can't handle them in real time doesn't mean the car models them selves are vastly inferior to GT5's

For whatever reason Turn 10 has been able to create nearly twice as many cars in the same time period fair and square.

Turn 10 may have beat PD in car count, but lets wait and see what surprises PD has up their sleeves. For example the day to night tracks require you to essentially model the textures for the entire track twice, one set of textures for day and another for night.
 
I think you guys are giving the PS3 too much credit in the power department. It is a powerful console but so is the X360 and for the most part games end up looking pretty similar on both consoles.

Actually I kind of wish Sony had gone the way Microsoft did and have 512MB of memory that could be used for the system or the graphics because I think it would offer more choices for developers.
 
Earth
Forza 3's "showroom" cars look 90-95% as good as PD's premium cars.

Just because the Xbox 360 can't handle them in real time doesn't mean the car models them selves are vastly inferior to GT5's

For whatever reason Turn 10 has been able to create nearly twice as many cars in the same time period fair and square.

Turn 10 may have beat PD in car count, but lets wait and see what surprises PD has up their sleeves. For example the day to night tracks require you to essentially model the textures for the entire track twice, one set of textures for day and another for night.
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Froza3 bullshots looks great I agree. But those are bullshots after all. Look at this
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/2503/imageforzamotorsport311u.jpg

I am just wondering how good will standard models look in GT5. Because the main problem now seems to be standard models. This

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crazedmodder
I think you guys are giving the PS3 too much credit in the power department. It is a powerful console but so is the X360 and for the most part games end up looking pretty similar on both consoles.
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Now why would you go and say something like that knowing some of the people who frequent this part of the forum?

But, I'll back you up by saying the following: The 360 also has the better GPU. But Cell (purely from an PC enthusiast/uber geek perspective) has the upper hand when raw processing power comes into play, mostly because it can be dedicated to computational and/or graphical tasks.


Froza3 bullshots looks great I agree. But those are bullshots after all. Look at this
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/2503/imageforzamotorsport311u.jpg
Click to expand...

Again with the worse screen capture one could possibly find.
 
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