How realistic is Gran Turismo really?

[Stevisiov]

Maybe drifint is due to Force Feedback?

I cant drift, but from time to time I can pull out nice drift on some corners. I always play on FFB setting 10, When I switch to 2 I could do the drift way way easier..
Maybe feedback and controls are something to get use to? IDK but for me

I don't think ffb plays a huge role, its more to do with the physics holding of the drift that's the problem, too much emphasis is on steering. In real life Once you have a drift you can control the radius and yaw of the drift with the throttle entirely, the wheel makes a marginal difference compared to the throttle. Its quite hard to describe but drifting in gran turismo is harder to control than in real life, now some of that is due to a lack of sensory feedback but the physical action of drifting is harder than it should be. I find for GT5P you pick a line for your drift and thats it, you have sod all chance of altering that line or correcting it (slight exaggeration).

GT5P drift replays looks spot on almost, and in LFS I seen replays it looks bit more arcade. Well it's my fake opinion. Don't bash

Drifting does look good on GT5P, for those who have taken the time to learn and adjust to the physics they look natural, I don't think it lends itself to telling us how realistic that drift is though.

Anyone that is professional drifter here? Share opinion.. Don't say my cousin drifts and GT5 is spot on, or is way off, because you are giving as much of good info as I am in these forums.

I have drift experience myself in 3 different cars; BMW 330i, Nissan 200sx, Mazda Mx-5 (miata). While they all behaved differently i.e the BMW had a very sensitive balance between controllable oversteer and spinning, and the 200sx had a welded diff, which meant it undeersteered like a pig until the rear broke traction and it drifted with ease, it didn't matter much what you did with the wheel it held nicely.

Now while moving from car to car was an easy enough transition, moving from car to GT5P wasn't so easy, it was easy to start a drift but steering it with the throttle was pretty hit and miss and catching it at the end was difficult in comparison.

Me, a professional drifter? Not yet but my dad runs a drift experience company located at Oulton Park. For reference he doesn't rate Gran Turismo drifting simulation.

By the way, its funny when GT4 came out we compared it with different games, now with GT5P we try to compare it with few games, but mostly to real life! Of course it will never be perfect. I think another 10 more years and even PC sims will nail simulation except scare and G-force.

You right, you can't simulate everything. GT5P is good as a simulator, I think its low speed and oversteer physics is off but not bad, the Aerodynamics model is calibrated wrong by a considerable margine and IMO is the biggest let down, hopefully it is just a calibration issue. The low speed physics is a bit of a mess also, cars reluctantly pull doughnuts, torque steering off the line on a camber doesn't happen. All issues which affect the realism. However some aspects are done really well, weight shift is much improved making lift of oversteer prominent in the right cars, power understeer is true to my driving experience. I would like to say the slicks seem realistic but I can't qualify that as I have never driven on a real racing slick.

I have done plenty of drifting over the years and GT5P is pretty close, not perfect but pretty close, But I never tried to compete as a pro, too hard on the car.

GT4 drifting was pretty much about just throwing the weight around but without a reducing radius corners it was hard to power through (sideways) while loosing sideways momentum, GT5P is much closer.

Agreed, GT5P is leaps and bounds ahead of GT4

Every Sim Racing game always have good physics at High or low speeds, sometimes bit of both. So that meaning each game nails realism in some areas others don't.

Much agreed. I am quite had on GT5P's physics although to be honest I am impressed with how much it has come on. The addition of professional physics is a great achievement for the series, it can keep both the casual and hardcore gamers happy.

 

[RedBaron]

I don't think ffb plays a huge role, its more to do with the physics holding of the drift that's the problem, too much emphasis is on steering. In real life Once you have a drift you can control the radius and yaw of the drift with the throttle entirely, the wheel makes a marginal difference compared to the throttle. Its quite hard to describe but drifting in gran turismo is harder to control than in real life, now some of that is due to a lack of sensory feedback but the physical action of drifting is harder than it should be.

I think it's all about wrongly calculated tyre traction still being awkward at low speeds as GT4 was. PD should finally drop out that old N1-R3 tyre engine and have it redone from scratch, based upon real tyre behaviour.

 

[Tenacious D]

+1. Well, I don't know if it needs to be dropped entirely. The basics are pretty good, but some fine attention to grip dynamics tweaks would probably work magic.

I quit playing Ferrari Challenge last night and spent some serious time with GT4 because I was really getting tired of fighting FC's driver view. It felt mushier than FC and GT5P both, but MAN was it cool. Being able to see properly trumps all kinds of physics, and I know GT4 is the equivalent of 3 or 4 gens back, but those physics are still pretty amazing, as are the graphics. The Nurburgring is simply stunning.

I love Prologue's more refined physics, but heck, this is good enough and too much fun with all these tracks and cars. I'm not going back to anything else for a while.

In my judgement, GT4, 80-85 percent realistic, GT5P, 90 plus. Both are very good, and GT4, better than you think.

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

Well...there's your answer...

https://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismos-benefits-and-limitations/

Ask and ye shall receive.

 

[swntnr83]

i can say that i have some drift exp, but i don't know about trying to compare real life with gt5p... im mean sure some of us may have the experience of drifting but at speeds gt cars go... dont think so...... i have a rwd celica and 1 thing i learned about it is that the faster you go into a corner, the more stabilized and easier it is to control a car but harder to correct on an exit... gt5p seems a little different... when i come into a corner at slow speeds in my celica, it understeers. gt5 i oversteer.... but it feels very close to my car when im at high speeds in the game... plus gt cars seem much stronger than in real life... also my reaction as far as steering is much quicker in the game. all in all im satisfied with gt physics but it could be a bit better... thats only an opinion of course...

 

[Tenacious D]

After spending some time in a few PC sims with a G25 wheel, I've concluded that Prologue is my most desired racing experience, something I didn't quite expect. I knew I would still love Gran Turismo, but darn if Prologue is pretty darn close to real life. And giving us a wealth of cars and tracks? I just can't compare GT to anything else. Well, except having money like a Kennedy and being able to buy as many cars as I want...

 

[Nomino]

You drive simulated cars on a simulated track, usually looking at a 16:9 display a few feet away from you while sat on a sofa holding a plastic pad. So, umm, yeah, totally realistic... Even those with wheels and **** (sorry, cockpit) setups, it only goes a small way to removing the artificial element...

So what though? It's a game, and a thoroughly enjoyable representation of driving cars around tracks. What more do you want? Reality? Step outside then...

 

[dancardesigner]

You drive simulated cars on a simulated track, usually looking at a 16:9 display a few feet away from you while sat on a sofa holding a plastic pad. So, umm, yeah, totally realistic... Even those with wheels and **** (sorry, cockpit) setups, it only goes a small way to removing the artificial element...

So what though? It's a game, and a thoroughly enjoyable representation of driving cars around tracks. What more do you want? Reality? Step outside then...

Well of course we play on a tv, what do you expect to make it more realistic, than driving a real car. The clear intent of the thread was reffering to the physics so your sarcastic comment was un-needed. From your point of view it's like watching a documentary or whatevr on tv and saying it's not very realistc beacuse you are watching it on a 16:9 display a few feet away while sat on a sofa. WTF we know its virtual, if we wanted every aspect the same as real life we might aswell just go and drive the car in real life.

 

[Lucas]

And get ourselves killed in the process 👍 (directed at Nomino, of course, but based on dancardesigner's comment.)

Seriously, if you want the game to be more realistic, then go out and drive a real car.

 

[Worst_Driver]

I've read about the dodge viper SRT-10 and in GT5P it feels a lot like the real thing
I'll say that GT5P is 75% accurate.
I've played GT4 but with a controller, and I must say each car that I've driven had a tendancy to understeer and kinda feels the same. Now in GT5P each car feels different, and with real wheel drive cars with a lot of torque you have to moderate the throttle if not it spin out. Its awesome

 

[RenaultSport133]

In GT4 simulation was decent with N2 tyres, my Yellowbird drifting Nordschleife would certainly agree. But I can't stand that default tyre choice was S2 and all the simulation gone into toilet.

Agreed.Physics are very good in GT4 but tyres just offer too much grip to the back of the car.

 

[Christhedude]

In my professional opinion GT5 P is around 80% real.

The main issue that is missing to real life racing is the sense of Grip on the road.

If you have played Ferrari Challenge, you can see exactly that Bruno Sennas Race driving experience has helped alot.
In FC, if you run too wide in a turn and you get of the ideal line, you can feel in the steering that the grip is completely gone. There FC has a big PLUS where as GT5 lacks.

Gran Turismo has a few minor points that are missing from real life racing.
If PD would take the input from a professional Race car driver, then the Physics of the game would be a bit more accurate. (see FC)

Chris 👍

 

[ZANELE]

To me GT is realistic enough for me not to complain I think it has come a long way and it is way better than the competitors . For me I will give it a 90%

 

[Ardius]

In my professional opinion GT5 P is around 80% real.

The main issue that is missing to real life racing is the sense of Grip on the road.

If you have played Ferrari Challenge, you can see exactly that Bruno Sennas Race driving experience has helped alot.
In FC, if you run too wide in a turn and you get of the ideal line, you can feel in the steering that the grip is completely gone. There FC has a big PLUS where as GT5 lacks.

Gran Turismo has a few minor points that are missing from real life racing.
If PD would take the input from a professional Race car driver, then the Physics of the game would be a bit more accurate. (see FC)

Chris 👍

I think Kaz has a fair amount of experience himself....and is it so easy to forget that video where they teach all of the development team about handling the real cars?
I don't think real track experience is a problem, they are probably better placed than almost all other driving game developers.

Oh, and I remember plenty videos of pro race drivers trying GT out, Kaz has raced against some with it in fact.

 

[Jay]

PD has had many racing drivers input, there are videos of Nissans head test driver, Super GT drivers, leman drivers, D1 drivers even Sebastian Loeb but I don't think they advise as much as Bruno probably done with FC.

As said KY has some experience and the team does go on fairly regular track days, even just to keep the passion of driving rather than for outright data.

Pretty much every 'sim' these days states they have people real track experience, it really isn't uncommon.

 

[DonZonda]

I think the driving physics are very close to reality already.
But , the sense of speed is too low.
The game moves to clear and sharp , there should be a little motion blur effect like in the replay used.
And you should see the G force in the In-Car view. It should shaking you around if you driving at high speeds.

If these things are inclouded it would be very realistic.

 

[Famine]

I've read about the dodge viper SRT-10 and in GT5P it feels a lot like the real thing
I'll say that GT5P is 75% accurate.

No offence, but how can you make a judgement based on how you think a car you've only read about should feel and how it feels in GT5P?

You have no objective basis to say how an SRT-10 "feels" in reality, so you aren't qualified to make that comparison.

 

[Ardius]

I think the driving physics are very close to reality already.
But , the sense of speed is too low.
The game moves to clear and sharp , there should be a little motion blur effect like in the replay used.
And you should see the G force in the In-Car view. It should shaking you around if you driving at high speeds.

If these things are inclouded it would be very realistic.

No no and no thanks. I don't want motion blur, its horrible. Shaking cameras? No.
These are things that start making the game more annoying than fun, in real life I would be compensating for the vibration of the car in my vision, so having shaking on screen would take away immersion, not increase it. In real life the surroundings don't become a blur, you focus on the road. You don't need fancy effects to replicate this effect, you just focus on the road like in real life.
I find the sense of speed perfectly fine in my opinion unless you are driving with the chase camera, but seeing as we're going on about realistic perspectives here, the chase camera doesn't really count.

I like this game because its clear and sharp, I hate films and games with unncessary blurring effects and shaking "amateur" cameras or trying to re-create other effects that I would be compensating for in real life, but in film screen/TV screen form just make it difficult to watch.
More thought needs to be put into making things immersive than simply going "oh, it shakes in real life, so lets make it shake in the game". There are more factors to your experience than that.

The worst recent offender I can think of in film form is the recent Transformers films which use excessive "amateur camera shake" in all the actions scenes (not to mention distorting voices). Its beyond ruining the film experience, I literally can't see whats going on. I don't care that shaking cameras would be realistic, I'm watching a film for the enjoyment of not being in a real life situation. Same goes for games.

 

[DonZonda]

No no and no thanks. I don't want motion blur, its horrible. Shaking cameras? No.
These are things that start making the game more annoying than fun, in real life I would be compensating for the vibration of the car in my vision, so having shaking on screen would take away immersion, not increase it. In real life the surroundings don't become a blur, you focus on the road. You don't need fancy effects to replicate this effect, you just focus on the road like in real life.
I find the sense of speed perfectly fine in my opinion unless you are driving with the chase camera, but seeing as we're going on about realistic perspectives here, the chase camera doesn't really count.

I like this game because its clear and sharp, I hate films and games with unncessary blurring effects and shaking "amateur" cameras or trying to re-create other effects that I would be compensating for in real life, but in film screen/TV screen form just make it difficult to watch.
More thought needs to be put into making things immersive than simply going "oh, it shakes in real life, so lets make it shake in the game". There are more factors to your experience than that.

The worst recent offender I can think of in film form is the recent Transformers films which use excessive "amateur camera shake" in all the actions scenes (not to mention distorting voices). Its beyond ruining the film experience, I literally can't see whats going on. I don't care that shaking cameras would be realistic, I'm watching a film for the enjoyment of not being in a real life situation. Same goes for games.

Well , there we have a diffrent opinion, when I drive fast on the Nordschleife or LeMans I want feel the bumpy track and the speed .

I cant understand how you can say no motion blur , I dont talk about such unrealistic blur like in NFS or Midnight Club , did you ever chosed that low blured roofcam in the replay? U can't say that it don't look better and faster and in my eyes more realistic. I guess in Daytona in real life ,if you drive there 200-300km/h and look out the sidewindow things don't pass your way as sharp and clear like in GT things will blur for your eyes even if you look out the windshield the fence will blur for your eyes at this speed . And that's why GT looks unrealistic to me. Even in the bumpercam the asphalt moving sharp and clear ... look in the reality next time when you drive a car out the sidewindow on the asphalt , and what it does? Exactly it's bluring.

Well sorry for my bad english

 

[Jay]

I want to hear the car bottom out (not uncommon on Nurburgring) the thud and scruff would be quite satisfying, also the sound of debris being kicked up hitting the underbody and gaurd/fender wells when putting a wheel (or more) off the track.

but no blur please, maybe a little more head bobbing when hitting bumps or jumps but not like some games where the camera moves considerably when just changing gears.

 

[vaioleto]

I thought GT4 was very realistic. For one thing, it taught me how to drive to an extent (on the gamepad) and helped me pass my license. It does have oversteer, but most cars don't have enough power in the game to power oversteer, but if you slam the gas on a super car, then you'll be sure to spin out if you don't control it well, for those who say GT4 doesn't have oversteer, go discover youtube for yourself...

GT4 is good for teaching people how to drive, since most cars we drive are front wheel drive, so oversteer is rarely a problem and understeer at high speeds is a real factor. When driving on snow, and the car keeps going straight even though you apply steering, my friends who don't play GT4 basically freak out and slam the brakes down to the ground, but if you have experienced some simulated understeer in GT, then you'll know to apply some gentle braking and then feather the throttle little by little.

 

[Ardius]

Well , there we have a diffrent opinion, when I drive fast on the Nordschleife or LeMans I want feel the bumpy track and the speed .

I cant understand how you can say no motion blur , I dont talk about such unrealistic blur like in NFS or Midnight Club , did you ever chosed that low blured roofcam in the replay? U can't say that it don't look better and faster and in my eyes more realistic. I guess in Daytona in real life ,if you drive there 200-300km/h and look out the sidewindow things don't pass your way as sharp and clear like in GT things will blur for your eyes even if you look out the windshield the fence will blur for your eyes at this speed . And that's why GT looks unrealistic to me. Even in the bumpercam the asphalt moving sharp and clear ... look in the reality next time when you drive a car out the sidewindow on the asphalt , and what it does? Exactly it's bluring.

Well sorry for my bad english

But the blur effect comes from not focusing on objects, so if you don't focus on the surroundings, hey presto.
I don't want any blur effect, no matter how little that is, even in games that try to make the blur realistic its just way too obvious to my eyes and annoying.

And your english is good just a few grammar issues.

 

[DonZonda]

But the blur effect comes from not focusing on objects, so if you don't focus on the surroundings, hey presto.
I don't want any blur effect, no matter how little that is, even in games that try to make the blur realistic its just way too obvious to my eyes and annoying.

And your english is good just a few grammar issues.

thanks

Yes you're right the blur comes from not focusing on objects. And if things near at you ,your eyes can't focus the objects anymore cause they moving too fast and things are bluring then . Well I would love to see it But anyway everybody got another opinion I accept your's for sure . But I can say if the asphalt would blur, it wouldn't look anymore so beautyful and shiny

 

[WolfRacer543]

The biggest reason no game will ever be remotely close to realistic is because one of the biggest things you drive with in a real race car is your bum. Your hands steer the wheel, your eyes see the road, your ears hear the engine. All those can be simulated. But your backside is the highly sensitive accelerometer that tells you what the car is doing. Sure you do get a lot of feedback through the steering wheel, and games can simulate over and understeer, but you can't "feel" it through your seat like in a real race car.

The feedback you get through the seat in a real race car on a track is a hugely massive part of driving and you can't simulate it because its an effect of inertial forces.

That doesn't mean racing simulators aren't fun and I like mine as realistic as possible, but that 1 part is the effect you'll never get in games, which is so vitally important to actual racing.

 

[Tenacious D]

The feedback you get through the seat in a real race car on a track is a hugely massive part of driving and you can't simulate it because its an effect of inertial forces.

Exactly. I've posted on this a few times myself. This is also why most cars feel different in real life, and not so much in games. There's no way you can capture this, and you have to compensate with things like tire squeal and very carefully exaggerated behavior differences.

As for blur and shaky views, a little of that is good. I can't stand seeing razor sharp images of moving objects myself. Take the wheels in GT HD. There was no blur, at least in the early builds, and it practically poked me in the eye. The same with some Devil May Cry 4 videos I saw which had no motion blur, it was just awful. Going as little as 30mph will cause the world to blur at the edges of your vision, that's just how the mind works.

If going down Seattle at 100mph sends you sailing over a hump, and it will, having the camera jerk a bit when you land would be fine in cockpit view. I would think you'd want that, as landing hard like that but having no effect of it sounds like the bumper car argument.

 

[G.T.Ace]

did you ever chosed that low blured roofcam in the replay? U can't say that it don't look better and faster and in my eyes more realistic.

I dont find it faster at all, you only get some sort of tunnel vision, thats all.
Especially because of the 30fps limitation in the replays, it feels much slower than in-game (for me).

 

[C-ZETA]

The biggest reason no game will ever be remotely close to realistic is because one of the biggest things you drive with in a real race car is your bum. Your hands steer the wheel, your eyes see the road, your ears hear the engine. All those can be simulated. But your backside is the highly sensitive accelerometer that tells you what the car is doing. Sure you do get a lot of feedback through the steering wheel, and games can simulate over and understeer, but you can't "feel" it through your seat like in a real race car.

I couldn't have said that any better myself. +1.

And damage would be, at least, very hard to simulate judging by how PD is far from the biggest company in video gaming known to date, never mind the world. So damage realism won't be happening anytime soon here either - I'm not saying it won't appear, just that it stands a stupidly small chance of actually having realistic damage.

 

[paskowitz]

If you subtract the forces of gravity and strictly look at how the car moves I would say GT5p does a pretty good job. As others have said GT5 could use some more "effects". GTR2, GTR Evo and now NFS Shift seem to do a good job of this (funny they are all made by roughly the same people).

Anyways, like I have said before I have had the honor of riding shotgun in a Ford GT. Sure I did not get to drive it but I talked to the owner about the car and how it drives and honestly it is almost exactly how it is in GT5p. There is a lot of power throughout the rev range, the brakes are strong but nothing earth shattering, the car has a "good" sense of weight (meaning its planted but not sluggish), sure it does not have Ferrari Enzo levels of response but it is respectable, the car will punish you for over using the throttle and can be a handful at both high speed and at launch, although the massive tires do provide great grip, its suspension is not ultra hard nor is it soft, its shifts are not fast or slow, but they are "easy", its really fast, and overall is a joy to drive. I would say the car in GT5p is a little looser than the one in real life but again overall its pretty close. In real life it seemed a lot faster but again this is due to the lack of effects on the body. This I guess counters GT5p looseness because faster speed seem slower in the game and at faster speed I would loose grip. I use S2 tires in the game and to me those seem to get the closest. S1 are just break way too early. The biggest reason for this "accuracy" has to be the KY owns one.

 

[Sele1981]

I´ve played rfactor and GTR2 for a long time before GT5P comes out on the PS3... GT5P is much more Fun for me! After GTR2 I got no problems with the "pro" physics on GT5P,they feel very close to the other PC sims for me...

But I must say GTR2 was a bit frustrating for me because for me the cars were too hard to control sometimes...

I think GT5P is the perfect mix with realistic physics and fun driving! But I think the tyre noises in corners are not realistic... (but much better then in GT4 ) You drive in a hairspin corner with 20 km/h and the wheels sounds like you drive with 200 km/h in a corner and get understeer as hell...

 

[Kryz11]

I think at mid to high speeds cars behave good, but at low speeds, too much slip from tires, just go on daytona oval, stop during a turn there, and let go of brake, the back will usually slide down.. just weird.. they need to fix it.