I don’t quite understand the outcry for a career mode, if only a small minority offered with GTS GT League & Arcade mode

[Imari]

Sport mode is decent I have had great races, and bad but where GTS shines in my opinion is these online leagues on GTP! From getting your car livery ready for opening day, caution laps, clean accountable racing, Full damage, fuel strategies, pit strategies, rivalries, and much more. The experience you get racing with a group of good people who compete fairly in my opinion beats any type of offline play.

The thing with league racing is that it's more about the group of people than it is about the game. You can have great league racing in pretty much any game, because the whole point is that you have humans setting the rules and doing all the hard work to make sure the races are fair and fun so there's very little for the game to do other than be drivable.

As far as online being better than offline... if you're a competitive racer, then sure. But for people who it's their jam, as many people above have pointed out, then it's just not fun for them.

 

[JDMKING13]

The thing with league racing is that it's more about the group of people than it is about the game. You can have great league racing in pretty much any game, because the whole point is that you have humans setting the rules and doing all the hard work to make sure the races are fair and fun so there's very little for the game to do other than be drivable.

As far as online being better than offline... if you're a competitive racer, then sure. But for people who it's their jam, as many people above have pointed out, then it's just not fun for them.

I don’t agree with it’s just the league statement… you can take my same group of people and if we were playing GT6 it would not be the same. GTS is a good game it’s not just league play that makes it a good game. Yes it has its shortcomings but that’s life period. Even in sport mode I have had great experiences racing random people, in which a single player mode could not match.

For your competitive racer statement… aren’t we all competitive racers? If your a person who wants a proper offline career mode isn’t that because you want to compete against other racers to become the best racer? In my opinion some people don’t want to go out their comfort zone which is perfectly fine. I use to only play offline, I didn’t want to compete with other people it was just easier for me to do my own thing. I truly understand, but what I will say is I’m happy and GTS has gotten even better since I been playing online!

 

[MatskiMonk]

For your competitive racer statement… aren’t we all competitive racers? If your a person who wants a proper offline career mode isn’t that because you want to compete against other racers to become the best racer?

Can't speak for Imari, but I've never really played Gran Turismo because I am, or wanted to be, a competitive racer. I play it because of the cars, one of the best ways to enjoy the cars is to drive them on track. Racing becomes an off-shoot to give the game structure, but it's not the main focus for me. Therefore I don't want to have to enter that scenario just to get other cars on track that drive somewhat more intuitively. That's not to say I don't enjoy a competitive element at all, but it's secondary, so I don't want to have to alter how I play the game because of it. The AI is generally ****, and it's not just because it's easy to beat, it's because it doesn't drive like you would expect it to, or respond to your car like you'd expect it to... it doesn't respond to apexes or braking zones like you expect them to either!

In simple terms, I love (real) motorsport, and I love watching old best motoring videos - but I love those two things for two different reasons.

 

[05XR8]

Exactly. I play to replicate real race series I enjoy. Not to grow as a competitive racer. I want the AI to be good so I can watch my replays like watching a real race. That’s the joy of GT for me. Being able to race right now and watch my replay.

 

[dacc10]

Sport mode can be seen as "too hardcore/too serious" for the casual player. Picking up on other games, like COD and Battlefield, most players won't ever set foot in a competitive, e-Sports environment, and will choose to play in more casual online modes. The same for FIFA. GT, being a game for the masses, is exactly the same.

As for the Campaign, we need it, because it's where players grind for credits and cars. It also serves for the player to buy a car, then race it for a profit, to buy a new one (or tune one already owned) for the next set of events, and so on.

As for improvements, the AI is obvious. Stop the "chase the rabbit" type of race, either make it a proper rolling start, or a standing start. Chase the rabbit is fine for missions and license tests, but not more than that. "One lap magic" sort of thing is fine.

With proper AI, give us proper difficulty settings, with scalable cash prizes. The higher the difficulty, the higher the prize. A third place in the thoughest difficulty should give a higher prize than the first place in "Easy". Bring back prize cars at the end of each championship, be it a randomized one (like GTS does) or a fixed one.

Then, not only give us more events, but also improve them. For example, in the FF event, some cars are useless, due to the fact that the Civic Type R or the Megane RS will outpace pretty much everything. Either create more than one event for those types of cars, or make the opposing cars scalable (a certain PP range) to what the player is using. A DS3 Racing should compete against similar cars, and not with the top of the range FF cars in the market. Repeat the process for other events with similar problems.

Bring back Championships (with points), but instead of creating a separate event, just use the existing ones, and add the option for the Championship. And yes, this includes Sunday Cup and stuff like that. Maybe give an extra cash prize for completing it, and/or make the car reward exclusive for the championship.

Bring back Endurance races, but, with an option to save and leave mid race. Players should still be able to experience 24h races, but they have the option to complete it in one go, or by whatever their availability allows them to. Even if this means cutting the prize a little every time they save and leave.

 

[o000o]

As for the Campaign, we need it, because it's where players grind for credits and cars. It also serves for the player to buy a car, then race it for a profit, to buy a new one (or tune one already owned) for the next set of events, and so on.

What if for online the players can have access to all cars like what's suggested...

With proper AI, give us proper difficulty settings, with scalable cash prizes. The higher the difficulty, the higher the prize. A third place in the thoughest difficulty should give a higher prize than the first place in "Easy". Bring back prize cars at the end of each championship, be it a randomized one (like GTS does) or a fixed one.

Randomized is a thing since GT1, and yeah GTS clearly imitates GT3.

Bring back Championships (with points), but instead of creating a separate event, just use the existing ones, and add the option for the Championship. And yes, this includes Sunday Cup and stuff like that. Maybe give an extra cash prize for completing it, and/or make the car reward exclusive for the championship.

That'd just mean everything is championship (like GT1), but I guess it makes use of more advanced GT where in GT3 you can complete a championship or single race.

Bring back Endurance races, but, with an option to save and leave mid race. Players should still be able to experience 24h races, but they have the option to complete it in one go, or by whatever their availability allows them to. Even if this means cutting the prize a little every time they save and leave.

That's what GT5 did and there were no prize cut.

 

[dacc10]

What if for online the players can have access to all cars like what's suggested...

And what about the tuning? Is it for free aswell? If it is, what would be the point of owning any car in the game whatsoever?

Randomized is a thing since GT1, and yeah GTS clearly imitates GT3.

In GT4, 5 and 6, prize cars were fixed.

That'd just mean everything is championship (like GT1), but I guess it makes use of more advanced GT where in GT3 you can complete a championship or single race.

Pretty much the best of both worlds. You could still do those races individually, but you could also do the full championship, earning bonus Cr and a car (for 1st place) at the end.

That's what GT5 did and there were no prize cut.

Pretty sure in GT5 you couldn't stop the race, save, and leave. You could stop the game, and come back later, but the console still needed to be running. It's probably not healthy for the console to stay on for 24h+ straight, running the game the entire time.

 

[syntex123]

Sport mode can be seen as "too hardcore/too serious" for the casual player.

Not only that, but a little off putting and discouraging too, how the penalty system works etc. I’m a C/S driver and I think I can do better than C, I’m mostly only 3s behind the top aliens on most circuits (and I’m using a controller, I sold my wheel because I wasn’t faster with it). It’s making me feel like a bad driver, C seems like such a low rating. I feel faster than that. But then again I hate racing mid pack, if I have the lead and see other cars creep closer, I tend to fall back, and when mid pack even the slightest punt is distracting me so much I usually end up at the back. I do better when I know my rating isn’t affected though.

To sum up: I want a good career mode. A challenging but fun career mode. I’m not complaining about how it is in GTS, but I’d love improvement. To AI, and the structure.
Please, for the love of god, let rolling starts be a rare occurance. I miss standing starts.

 

[Tired Tyres]

That's what GT5 did and there were no prize cut

It took quite a lot of patches before they added saving.

As an addition to what @dacc10 suggested, we need qualifying for championships, at the minimum, so we can match the AI for speed.

 

[dacc10]

As an addition to what @dacc10 suggested, we need qualifying for championships, at the minimum, so we can match the AI for speed.

I think there was a qualifying option for championships in GT4 (or 5). Not entirely sure though.

 

[syntex123]

🙃

Spoiler: Soundtrack

Really wish the old soundtrack came back. GT1 had amazing soundtrack.

 

[I-Runner]

Pretty sure in GT5 you couldn't stop the race, save, and leave. You could stop the game, and come back later, but the console still needed to be running. It's probably not healthy for the console to stay on for 24h+ straight, running the game the entire time.

This was at the beginning of the game (2010÷2011) , after some major updates was possible to save during some endurance races ....

IR

 

[o000o]

🙃

Spoiler: Soundtrack

Really wish the old soundtrack came back. GT1 had amazing soundtrack.

 

[05XR8]

Love how the info gives the tyre sizes.

 

[syntex123]

The Japanese soundtrack doesn’t give me the nostalgic feel, except for MOTC of course! But yess.

 

[o000o]

The Japanese soundtrack doesn’t give me the nostalgic feel, except for MOTC of course! But yess.

As one comment pointed out, most of the Japanese soundtrack is used in GT2 (there are those in GT3 and GT4 as well), so it'd actually quickly resonate with me. Personally I think I'd like chilling music better for GT too.

 

[syntex123]

As one comment pointed out, most of the Japanese soundtrack is used in GT2 (there are those in GT3 and GT4 as well), so it'd actually quickly resonate with me. Personally I think I'd like chilling music better for GT too.

Didn’t think of that! 😄

 

[BigSarj]

Sport mode can be seen as "too hardcore/too serious" for the casual player. Picking up on other games, like COD and Battlefield, most players won't ever set foot in a competitive, e-Sports environment, and will choose to play in more casual online modes. The same for FIFA. GT, being a game for the masses, is exactly the same.

I wonder, how does the game recruit more players into the online?

GT Sport doesn't have a difference between 'ranked' and 'casual'. It's all ranked, and your DR is displayed next to your name in all races. It's the rank that gets some people into 'tryhard' mode (which is fine, as long as it's not dirty).

So they could get rid of the visible letter rank altogether and keep the skill based matchmaking hidden, maybe? That would offer a less competitive, more welcoming atmosphere, akin to jumping into a first person shooter game mode that has respawns.

To me, car racing is a more competitive type of game mode. It's more like Counter Strike and games of that ilk. You're not going to be entering a match that has already started. You have to be there from the beginning and hopefully, you stay until the end.

It does baffle me as to why Sport Mode isn't more popular. I can only think back to my own initial apprehension and that was due to a lack of confidence. I hope more people are introduced to Sport Mode somehow. I hope someone here can offer ways they could do that.

My idea is to mimic the online mode in GT League by including a more realistic AI and a similar penalty system.

 

[syntex123]

☝🏼 This, to some extent. I’m being discouraged from racing in sport mode in fear I’ll drop more in rating. I’m faster than my current rating but I tend to drop back because of the fear of slightly bumping someone / they bump me, and boy do they know how to hit me and make ME get the penalty.

 

[o000o]

Didn’t think of that! 😄

• Nissan’s tune is the GT2 Main Map theme in Simulation Disc.
• Chevrolet’s tune is South City in GT2.
• Mitsubishi’s theme is West City in GT2.
• Toyota’s theme is East City in GT2, later remixed for GT4 onwards as “From the East to the West”.
• Home is the same as My Home in GT2 Simulation Disc.
• Honda’s theme (and a hint of the Race Menu) is the Race Menu theme in GT2 Simulation Disc.
• Arcade Menu theme is the Options theme in GT2.
• Car Selection theme in Arcade is the Arcade menu in GT2 Arcade Disc.
• Race Start/Race Finish themes were reused in GT2.
• Race Summary/New Record theme is the Cash Prize theme in GT2.
• Save Replay theme is the same as the License Test sub-menus in GT2.
• Subaru’s theme was reused as one of the Main Map themes in GT4 Gran Turismo Mode.

 

[dacc10]

I wonder, how does the game recruit more players into the online?

GT Sport doesn't have a difference between 'ranked' and 'casual'. It's all ranked, and your DR is displayed next to your name in all races. It's the rank that gets some people into 'tryhard' mode (which is fine, as long as it's not dirty).

So they could get rid of the visible letter rank altogether and keep the skill based matchmaking hidden, maybe? That would offer a less competitive, more welcoming atmosphere, akin to jumping into a first person shooter game mode that has respawns.

To me, car racing is a more competitive type of game mode. It's more like Counter Strike and games of that ilk. You're not going to be entering a match that has already started. You have to be there from the beginning and hopefully, you stay until the end.

It does baffle me as to why Sport Mode isn't more popular. I can only think back to my own initial apprehension and that was due to a lack of confidence. I hope more people are introduced to Sport Mode somehow. I hope someone here can offer ways they could do that.

My idea is to mimic the online mode in GT League by including a more realistic AI and a similar penalty system.

The game doesn't "need" to recruit players into online mode, as usually it's the player's choice to play online or not. The difference is that most people choose to play in normal online modes, instead of Sport mode.

The only way for them to make more players join Sport Mode, is simply to delete both normal online and campaign modes, which is not advisable at all. They could give some incentive (Cr.) to play in Sport mode, but that might also work against it, as it could bring dirty racers to have another way to earn credits.

In the end, everyone has their own take on what's fun in the game. Players won't stop drag racing, drifting and whatever, to play Sport mode. Even if Sport is perfect, it still won't be the game mode that everyone wants to play consistently.

The success of Forza Horizon shows that. Not everyone is interested in pure racing. GT7, will try to give players a bit of everything.

 

[HyperSpeeder]

I think the endgame of "getting better at driving" that has always been GT's ethos doesn't have to be alien level.

If I play tennis as a hobby, should I expect to become as good as Roger Federer? Definitely not.

I'd say most people would be content with being somewhere between Silver and Gold in Hamilton's events. You may not be alien, but you don't embarrass yourself either. You're fast enough to understand the nuances of racing.

The approach of GT Sport brought in a lot of e-sports influencers who simply do not understand the game's original purpose. Gran Turismo is not Forza Horizon, but it's not iRacing either.

I thought it was Sony pushing PD into a back to the roots direction but I wonder whether it was Kaz himself who acknowledged you won't get many people into a driving hobby if you set too high a bar for entry.

 

[05XR8]

Kaz became a real racing driver. I’m sure he wanted to share that experience from street racer to professional endurance racer. We saw he actually made that happen for some and opened the door for many of us to, at least, participate in such an experience.

 

[Magog]

Speak for yourself. I only raced offline. Online races are awful. A lot of the people who wanted a Carter mode skipped Sport entirely.

Not only that, but a little off putting and discouraging too, how the penalty system works etc. I’m a C/S driver and I think I can do better than C, I’m mostly only 3s behind the top aliens on most circuits (and I’m using a controller, I sold my wheel because I wasn’t faster with it). It’s making me feel like a bad driver, C seems like such a low rating. I feel faster than that. But then again I hate racing mid pack, if I have the lead and see other cars creep closer, I tend to fall back, and when mid pack even the slightest punt is distracting me so much I usually end up at the back. I do better when I know my rating isn’t affected though.

To sum up: I want a good career mode. A challenging but fun career mode. I’m not complaining about how it is in GTS, but I’d love improvement. To AI, and the structure.
Please, for the love of god, let rolling starts be a rare occurance. I miss standing starts.

Standing starts and the option to qualify for every race was sooooo much better. What sort of racing game leaves out qualifying???

 

[Samus]

What sort of racing game leaves out qualifying???

Gran Turismo 6 was a racing game that left out (offline) racing.

 

[MatskiMonk]

So in an effort to re-inform my opinion, I did some sport mode races at the weekend. Not many, just a handful of the Gr 4 Maggiore race.

For the most part the racing was cleaner than I'd expected, not perfect, there were still a couple of ludicrous divebombs that seemed to go without penalty. Managed to keep my SR at 98 or 99.

The difference in qualifying times ranged up to about 5 seconds, with half the grid being B, and half being C. Though, as my DR score fell from 8000ish to 6000ish the matching filled the room with more C drivers and the time difference fell to about 3 seconds. I'm clearly just a low C driver, which I can live with.

My actual races consisted of starting in the lower half of the grid, and gaining places via incidents. I lost a couple of places to clean over takes, wiped myself out once, and got punted twice. There really wasn't much action other than that. I kept an eye on the FL times, which were similar to my qualifying time, so I figured since I'm still likely to finish out of the top 10, I'd go for FL. That didn't work out though.

I noticed the winning car was always a Scirocco or a Megane. I was using an M4 or a Citroen GT.

Typical time between races was about 8 mins, racing time was about 7.5 mins each.

Had a couple of quite laggy players in one race.

In short, my opinion hasn't changed. The racing wasn't that exciting, I was in clear air most of the time. It takes too long - the races should be timed so that when one finishes you can get straight into another, not wait longer than the actual race is. I did get ****** off with the clown in the Veyron pinballing his way through traffic, but generally the behaviour of other players was tolerable. I don't mind Maggiore or Gr.4 so the combo was alright, but it seemed like some cars were a much better choice than others. The Tsukuba race and the Gr.2 race didn't appeal. Other small gripe... I guess you can turn them off, but the player details above the cars can frequently obscure braking markers when you've got a long train of cars (like at the start of the race running down to turn one).

It's definitely a different experience being up against real people than AI, but it's just not 'better' enough to overcome the shortcomings.

I reckon if the races were about 5-10% cleaner, I wouldn't have a gripe about that at all... though I'd forgotten what a pain lagging can be. Cut down the wait between races, and offer more simultaneous combinations, and I'd be more likely to perhaps do a couple of races each week. Though clearly, with a 3 second per lap lap-time spread, it's likely that wheel to wheel racing would still be sparse - I doubt there's much PD can do about that with only a finite amount of other players to match against (some of who may well be sandbagging).

 

[WHO1]

I love racing, so much so that racing in the GT league, completing all the Arcade mode races and yes sport mode also, has all been just as fun for me as each other.

I look at GT7 and many people were crying for a career mode, but I don’t understand why if most people play sport mode and hardly anyone bothered with Arcade/GT League. The reason I say this is because other than receiving new cars for completing races, there really is no difference, and if you enjoy racing as much as I or as many of us do, the gift cares are irrelevant.

So I guess I just want to understand is why a single player career mode is so in demand when the people that want to play it, probably didn’t even bother with GT League or Arcade mode to begin with. What’s the big deal about a career mode that means those that didn‘t touch any of the single player content in GTS, will suddenly be all over it in GT7?

This isn’t meant as some kind of criticism or diatribe, I am just genuinely curious about the appeal of a career mode. My experience shows that as I said, other than gift cars, GT league is pretty much identical to past GT games. No car parts, I understand that, but surely that can’t be THE reason because the tuning in GTS is, I think, incredibly in depth.

I haven't owned a Playstation since the PS2 and I've just bought a Digital PS5 solely to play GT7 in March because it appears it will have a solid career mode. I have very little interest in playing online with people who generally just bump you off the road at any given opportunity. I may give it a go but I'll be completing the career mode before I even contemplate going online.

 

[mwoodski]

Online racing against randos sucks. I don't know them, I have zero desire to know them, and they generally all drive terribly.

Leave the league racing to proper PC titles and keep the console stuff for having fun offline.

 

[NAXEHT]

So in an effort to re-inform my opinion, I did some sport mode races at the weekend. Not many, just a handful of the Gr 4 Maggiore race.

For the most part the racing was cleaner than I'd expected, not perfect, there were still a couple of ludicrous divebombs that seemed to go without penalty. Managed to keep my SR at 98 or 99.

The difference in qualifying times ranged up to about 5 seconds, with half the grid being B, and half being C. Though, as my DR score fell from 8000ish to 6000ish the matching filled the room with more C drivers and the time difference fell to about 3 seconds. I'm clearly just a low C driver, which I can live with.

My actual races consisted of starting in the lower half of the grid, and gaining places via incidents. I lost a couple of places to clean over takes, wiped myself out once, and got punted twice. There really wasn't much action other than that. I kept an eye on the FL times, which were similar to my qualifying time, so I figured since I'm still likely to finish out of the top 10, I'd go for FL. That didn't work out though.

I noticed the winning car was always a Scirocco or a Megane. I was using an M4 or a Citroen GT.

Typical time between races was about 8 mins, racing time was about 7.5 mins each.

Had a couple of quite laggy players in one race.

In short, my opinion hasn't changed. The racing wasn't that exciting, I was in clear air most of the time. It takes too long - the races should be timed so that when one finishes you can get straight into another, not wait longer than the actual race is. I did get ****** off with the clown in the Veyron pinballing his way through traffic, but generally the behaviour of other players was tolerable. I don't mind Maggiore or Gr.4 so the combo was alright, but it seemed like some cars were a much better choice than others. The Tsukuba race and the Gr.2 race didn't appeal. Other small gripe... I guess you can turn them off, but the player details above the cars can frequently obscure braking markers when you've got a long train of cars (like at the start of the race running down to turn one).

It's definitely a different experience being up against real people than AI, but it's just not 'better' enough to overcome the shortcomings.

I reckon if the races were about 5-10% cleaner, I wouldn't have a gripe about that at all... though I'd forgotten what a pain lagging can be. Cut down the wait between races, and offer more simultaneous combinations, and I'd be more likely to perhaps do a couple of races each week. Though clearly, with a 3 second per lap lap-time spread, it's likely that wheel to wheel racing would still be sparse - I doubt there's much PD can do about that with only a finite amount of other players to match against (some of who may well be sandbagging).

Kudos for giving it a proper attempt. That’s nice. More than can be said about many others, given participant statistics via kudosprime we’ve seen before.

Online racing against randos sucks. I don't know them, I have zero desire to know them, and they generally all drive terribly.

Leave the league racing to proper PC titles and keep the console stuff for having fun offline.

Sad that you think this way. No need to actually know someone in order to race with them. It certainly helps to be familiar but it’s not a requirement for good racing. And no, not all are as terrible as you claim.

 

[mwoodski]

Kudos for giving it a proper attempt. That’s nice. More than can be said about many others, given participant statistics via kudosprime we’ve seen before.

Sad that you think this way. No need to actually know someone in order to race with them. It certainly helps to be familiar but it’s not a requirement for good racing. And no, not all are as terrible as you claim.

I'm 31. I had fun with the randos online when I was in my early 20's but now it just isn't fun anymore.

PC league racing with folks I've raced with for years is what I'm interested in from an online aspect.