I need help racing in traffic

[Bullwinkle]

I'm new to racing and have been doing a lot of hot laps to try to get better. I dove into online racing last week and I'm a D/S driver at this point, usually starting around P10 or so in races. Although I managed to finish P3 a few days ago, usually what happens is that I get punted off the track in lap 1 and right out of the race. I have to struggle to get back into the race and get back to my original position, usually after the jerks rage quit and clear out of the race.

Here's what I've been able to figure out so far, and some concerns I have, and the questions that follow:

• Starting position matters. When I start higher up, I usually do better. I'm guessing because I'm shielded from the dive-bombers by the intervening cars behind me.
• People say it gets better in with higher rated racers. Based on my ruined races (which I do go ahead and finish) I don't know how to improve my driver rating. I'm guessing podium finishes or some such thing matter, but how in the world can I ever improve my driver rating when I'm usually getting punted right into last place? How will I ever get to race with the better drivers?
• It seems that, due to the "penalty" system, it's more cost effective to just punt everyone in front of me and do my 3 second penalty, leaving them far behind in the gravel trying to sort themselves out.

One last thing: my biggest weakness is driving in traffic. I'm so worried about booting other people in front of me that I tend to slow down a bit to reduce contact. What I've realized is that, in the process, I lose my markers for braking and turning, and this gets me in big trouble when surrounded by a group of cars. I don't want to be the punter, but it usually gets me punted. So how in the world can I learn to drive in heavy traffic, avoid losing my position, and at the same time avoid excessive contact? This is truly a race-craft issue, which is new to me. How do I get better at it without upsetting everyone around me in the process?

If you've read this far, you either are having the same problem or have an answer. If you have some suggestions, please please please let me know what I can do.

 

[TypeRDC5]

This is going to sound like a crap response but practise makes perfect.
The more races you do the more natural racing in traffic becomes, dont worry it will click eventually.

I usually break 10 metres earlier if right behind another car to avoid punting them and also the main thing for me is learn as you race... note people's racing styles, lines, behaviour.
If the driver behind you dive bombed you the lap before he will probably do it again, give him space and try to cut back on them, if a driver is slower out of a particular corner compared to you make sure that is where you plan your overtake, every lap is a learning journey when online racing.

 

[ianF-69]

Racing on line quite frankly is savage...unless you are in a room where it states clean racing then stand your ground ...i try my best to be clean but in so many races it is impossible..cars dive bomb and dont respect that they are off the racing line...create your own room with car collision pens high and hope for the best...you soon get to know who you like racing against.

 

[Bullwinkle]

Is there any way to improve my driving level other than winning races? Or is this going to be one of those things where I'm going to be stuck in the low grade until I learn to push back and win?

 

[ICEYOU3]

Is there any way to improve my driving level other than winning races? Or is this going to be one of those things where I'm going to be stuck in the low grade until I learn to push back and win?

Racing clean will raise your driver rating, but winning helps out A LOT.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

Is there any way to improve my driving level other than winning races? Or is this going to be one of those things where I'm going to be stuck in the low grade until I learn to push back and win?

You don’t need to win. Just come as high as you can. Getting through turn 1 is the key. There’s not much you can do to avoid getting punted but coast a little into the turn to ensure you don’t punt anyone else and take an inside line if you can so you can’t get dived (unless they go off the track which does happen). After that it’s likely that you’ll only have one car at a time to worry about. If the car behind is hitting you or just driving out of line just let him go through. He’ll likely make a mistake as he’ll be worried that you’ll take revenge or he’ll catch up to the next car and often cause some sort of accident letting you get two positions. Don’t see every corner as a mandatory overtaking opportunity. There’s no need. Play it like real life. Getting through a whole race with no overtakes at all is pretty common irl.

 

[dabz343]

I'm new to racing and have been doing a lot of hot laps to try to get better. I dove into online racing last week and I'm a D/S driver at this point, usually starting around P10 or so in races. Although I managed to finish P3 a few days ago, usually what happens is that I get punted off the track in lap 1 and right out of the race. I have to struggle to get back into the race and get back to my original position, usually after the jerks rage quit and clear out of the race.

Here's what I've been able to figure out so far, and some concerns I have, and the questions that follow:

• Starting position matters. When I start higher up, I usually do better. I'm guessing because I'm shielded from behind by the dive-bombers.
• People say it gets better in with higher rated racers. Based on my ruined races (which I do go ahead and finish) I don't know how to improve my driver rating. I'm guessing podium finishes or some such thing matter, but how in the world can I ever improve my driver rating when I'm usually getting punted right into last place? How will I ever get to race with the better drivers?
• It seems that, due to the "penalty" system, it's more cost effective to just punt everyone in front of me and do my 3 second penalty, leaving them far behind in the gravel trying to sort themselves out.

One last thing: my biggest weakness is driving in traffic. I'm so worried about booting other people in front of me that I tend to slow down a bit to reduce contact. What I've realized is that, in the process, I lose my markers for braking and turning, and this gets me in big trouble when surrounded by a group of cars. I don't want to be the punter, but it usually gets me punted. So how in the world can I learn to drive in heavy traffic, avoid losing my position, and at the same time avoid excessive contact? This is truly a race-craft issue, which is new to me. How do I get better at it without upsetting everyone around me in the process?

If you've read this far, you either are having the same problem or have an answer. If you have some suggestions, please please please let me know what I can do.

We all started here. Progress will come, I promise you. Just keep your cool and continue to ask the right questions. Finding some friends to grow with is definitely a plus...reach out to those you come across on dailies and practice mindfully, not mindlessly.

 

[Bullwinkle]

Thanks everyone. I got tired of doing Race B at Monza (the "Atenza Cup") and moved on to Race C at RBR. I discovered that patience leads to taking advantage of other drivers' mistakes. I ran it a few times this evening, mixed with a whole lot of trial laps in many different Gr.3 cars. I ended out gaining positions in each race, even when I got punted to last place, and at least made it back to my original position. I just finished P4 in the last one. It would have been P3 but I made a couple of silly errors and allowed someone to overtake me with three laps left.

I'm still getting shoved all over the place, but I'm starting to get a better feel for what to expect from people. I'm not shoving back just yet, but taking my lumps and learning. You can just about tell who's going to drive fair and who isn't after one lap near them. I even switched to the bumper cam view so I can use the rearview mirror during the race.

More advice is welcome! I'm curious about how long it will take to raise my driving grade.

Racing clean will raise your driver rating, but winning helps out A LOT.

Are you sure about this? I read that your driver rating can't raise above your safety rating, but that it doesn't raise along with the safety rating. I hope you're right because I want to race clean and play fair, but I also want to get out of the D rooms!

 

[dabz343]

I'm still getting shoved all over the place, but I'm starting to get a better feel for what to expect from people. I'm not shoving back just yet, but taking my lumps and learning. You can just about tell who's going to drive fair and who isn't after one lap near them.

That's right...that's good racecraft, and don't forget to enjoy every bit of it...I always respected those guys that held their ground fairly...they usually find their way to higher ground.

 

[Nuschel01]

Please keep in mind DR is nothing to grind or anything, it's just an indicator of your skills and improving those in general is a higher goal than worrying about how to improve just the DR rating.
Also quite a few drivers in DR A+/A/B/C are also not that clean as you might think, the higher the DR level in a lobby the more you race against questionable egos

But yeah, spacial awareness and racecraft naturally evolves without you really noticing it and sooner or later you'll probably be able to figure out how to race certain people and how not to. And mind you, even then mistakes will happen and it's really nothing to be ashamed of.

 

[QTip8329Wags]

@Bullwinkle Hi and welcome! Always happy to have new players. I believe I have a fairly straight forward answer to your question on how to get into the "cleaner" racing lobbies.

-Driver Rating is based on where you start and where you finish plus a few other things.
-Sportsmanship is based on your etiquette alone and how clean you are.

So the goal is to improve your Sportsmanship Rating every race, even if you lose positions.
-DON'T MAKE CONTACT with others and if you do, make sure your are BRAKING TO AVOID COLLISION. Letting off the brake and hitting someone seems to hurt ratings more and gives penalties.
-STAY ON TRACK and NO CUTTING! Staying on track is key to a lot of things in the game but Sportsmanship Rating is affected.
-"It's better to do clean laps in last place." This is advice I was given by players in Gran Turismo Sport and it's true. Your Driver Rating won't improve much but you want "clean" lobbies to race in correct? Then don't worry and try this method in races where people want to dive bomb in every turn. Let them by and get clean laps in.
-LAST BUT NOT LEAST---GO FOR THE CLEAN RACE BONUS!!! This speaks for itself. Not only do you get 150% of the Reward Credits but it gives a massive boost to your Sportsmanship Rating. Being awarded "CLEAN RACE BONUS" consecutively, multiple times in a row, will really boost your Sportsmanship Rating.

Once you get SR to A, A+, or S, then paying attention to DR a little more won't hurt SR as much if you have a bad off or contact in a race or two.

 

[NikNakTobasco]

Driver Rating is based on where you start

This is incorrect. Where you start has no bearing on DR. Only where you finish relative to the DR of the other drivers.

 

[xMAXIx79]

Currently, the sentencing system is just a giant pile of ****! In the races in Monza you can see it very well and the majority of players are currently behaving associally from the ground up, so I can only advise everyone to avoid the races in Monza. I'm actually in favor of penalties, but at the moment there are penalties that just feel like they're loosely based on the lottery ticket. Someone in front of me brakes long before the braking zone, so I slow down too.. There is a very light contact which does NOT harm the person in front because he braked too early anyway and has already dropped to 70 km/h at chicane 2 which goes with easy 90... I get a 2 second penalty... serve this penalty, drive into the long right-hand bend, someone comes from behind, pushes in on the right and hits me on the side... I turn out, hit them guardrail and get 2 seconds for collision with another vehicle and 1.5 seconds for touching the guardrail.

I could write a lot more about that, but right now the races and the penalties are just ridiculous. And if I could do what I wanted, I'd punch any of these players.

And the fact that you are basically forced to drive the Atenza or risk everything because you zg. having to move the M4 with manual transmission is just ridiculous on top of that. Where you are faster, the Atenza drivers are in the way and ram you if you overtake, or you drive like on icy roads in the areas that do not suit the M4 and then risk being hit with a dive bomb.

Right now I'm fed up with this crap.

To improve your rating.. keep out of fighting.. never stop a race and try to keep good stable places possible.. it is not necessary to always win.

 

[Elgin]

I even switched to the bumper cam view so I can use the rearview mirror during the race.

An advice which helped me a lot was to use the proximity radar. I don't use the rearview mirror at all, it just distracts me in the heat of a race.

I read that your driver rating can't raise above your safety rating,

That is correct as far as I know.

 

[sixty4half]

Thanks everyone. I got tired of doing Race B at Monza (the "Atenza Cup") and moved on to Race B at RBR. I discovered that patience leads to taking advantage of other drivers' mistakes. I ran it a few times this evening, mixed with a whole lot of trial laps in many different Gr.3 cars.

Good job on RBR and learning from your experience. I don't want what I'm about to say to diminish that in any way.

One of the biggest mistakes that new drivers make is switching between A, B, and C throughout the week. If you stick with one Track/Car combo your ranking will increase faster and you will get into better lobbies quicker. As you do the same race over and over you will get better and better at that race. The better your final result the more your Driver Rating increases.

However, when you switch to a different race it takes a while to get used to that combo and during that learning curve you are going to be pickup quite a few low results. That hurts your overall Driver Rating and puts you into lower lobbies.


Now, you're probably thinking, I'm new and I need to get as much experience on as many tracks and different types of cars as possible. And you are correct, but remember that you are just starting and there is no need to rush things. Track/Car combos change every week so you will get all of the experience that you want.

Sticking to 1 track will also help your confidence over the course of the week. You will understand what to expect from the cars around you in a range of situations for each corner, and you cannot get that kind of learning from repetition if you keep changing races.

When I found this nugget of advice I went from jumping between D and C rank to being a B rank racer within just a couple of months.

 

[Bullwinkle]

Good job on RBR and learning from your experience. I don't want what I'm about to say to diminish that in any way.

One of the biggest mistakes that new drivers make is switching between A, B, and C throughout the week. If you stick with one Track/Car combo your ranking will increase faster and you will get into better lobbies quicker. As you do the same race over and over you will get better and better at that race. The better your final result the more your Driver Rating increases.

However, when you switch to a different race it takes a while to get used to that combo and during that learning curve you are going to be pickup quite a few low results. That hurts your overall Driver Rating and puts you into lower lobbies.


Now, you're probably thinking, I'm new and I need to get as much experience on as many tracks and different types of cars as possible. And you are correct, but remember that you are just starting and there is no need to rush things. Track/Car combos change every week so you will get all of the experience that you want.

Sticking to 1 track will also help your confidence over the course of the week. You will understand what to expect from the cars around you in a range of situations for each corner, and you cannot get that kind of learning from repetition if you keep changing races.

When I found this nugget of advice I went from jumping between D and C rank to being a B rank racer within just a couple of months.

Awesome advice! Intuitively I was kinda drifting that way anyway, but seeing it spelled out reinforces my hunch. I’ll start doing the “circuit experiences” for the courses as they change as well, although the BoP changes the whole “experience” on race day. Still, muscle memory matters. Thanks for the tip(s)!

 

[Bullwinkle]

@Bullwinkle Hi and welcome! Always happy to have new players. I believe I have a fairly straight forward answer to your question on how to get into the "cleaner" racing lobbies.

-Driver Rating is based on where you start and where you finish plus a few other things.
-Sportsmanship is based on your etiquette alone and how clean you are.

Thanks. The funny thing is that I got a safety rating of S in a day. Obviously I'm driving safely, and it's nice to have that acknowledged, but all the other idiots I'm stuck racing with are also "S" (or maybe "B") safety rated drivers so I'm not sure it means all that much in a "D" driver rating room. I wish they'd at least parse those guys into a different heat.

 

[sixty4half]

Thanks. The funny thing is that I got a safety rating of S in a day. Obviously I'm driving safely, and it's nice to have that acknowledged, but all the other idiots I'm stuck racing with are also "S" (or maybe "B") safety rated drivers so I'm not sure it means all that much in a "D" driver rating room. I wish they'd at least parse those guys into a different heat.

Safety rating does not matter right now. Not with the current penalty system being in shambles.

I was a B/S driver in GT Sport. You can even watch my most recent Monza video to see how clean I try to race (it's in the What did you do today and the Daily Race Discussion, i shouldn't post it 3 times).

I am currently a B/B driver in GT7. You take a safety hit for some stupid things right now.

Get brake checked mid-turn? Lose some SR.
Have the inside of a corner and the other driver cuts it short, slamming into you? You lose some SR.
Other driver makes 3 defensive swerves in a braking zone and forces the rear-end? Lose some SR.

So until they fix those things, I literally cannot be bothered to even consider Safety Ranking an actual thing.

From what I can tell, it's the SR S guys you have to watch. Those are the guys who brake early AND at the Apex causing rear end collisions. They also slam into anyone on the inside of corners forcing more collision penalties.

The system really is a mess.

 

[Bullwinkle]

Currently, the sentencing system is just a giant pile of ****! In the races in Monza you can see it very well and the majority of players are currently behaving associally from the ground up, so I can only advise everyone to avoid the races in Monza. I'm actually in favor of penalties, but at the moment there are penalties that just feel like they're loosely based on the lottery ticket. Someone in front of me brakes long before the braking zone, so I slow down too.. There is a very light contact which does NOT harm the person in front because he braked too early anyway and has already dropped to 70 km/h at chicane 2 which goes with easy 90... I get a 2 second penalty... serve this penalty, drive into the long right-hand bend, someone comes from behind, pushes in on the right and hits me on the side... I turn out, hit them guardrail and get 2 seconds for collision with another vehicle and 1.5 seconds for touching the guardrail.

I could write a lot more about that, but right now the races and the penalties are just ridiculous. And if I could do what I wanted, I'd punch any of these players.

And the fact that you are basically forced to drive the Atenza or risk everything because you zg. having to move the M4 with manual transmission is just ridiculous on top of that. Where you are faster, the Atenza drivers are in the way and ram you if you overtake, or you drive like on icy roads in the areas that do not suit the M4 and then risk being hit with a dive bomb.

Right now I'm fed up with this crap.

To improve your rating.. keep out of fighting.. never stop a race and try to keep good stable places possible.. it is not necessary to always win.

This, in so many ways! I feel a bit sheepish when I tap a guy going into turn 3 at RBR and get 2 seconds. But then I get shoved into the gravel at turn 4 and am functionally out of the race while the guy who did the punting doesn't get a penalty at all! I like that they're at least ghosting cars in those pileup situations, but it's too inconsistent.

Gallagher had a great bit a long time ago (back before he lost his mind) with suction cup darts with flags that said "stupid" on them, and if someone did something stupid in traffic you'd hit them with the stupid dart. A person with too many darts could get pulled over by the police and get a ticket for being stupid. If only we could have a system like that!

In all honesty, I think the penalties need to be a lot harsher. I ran race A exactly once this week at Brands Hatch with the VW and got punted so far out of bounds and up a hill that it took me 15 seconds to get traction, get turned around and back onto the track. From what I could see there were no consequences for the perpetrator although A) all the cars look alike, so how could I tell? or B) I was so far back that even if he did get penalized I didn't see it because he was long gone by the time I got to the penalty zone. Race B at Monza, the "Atenza Cup," is about the same. I had to quit that one too. My experience at RBR has been better as it doesn't feel so claustrophobic, but the penalties are still bizarre.

We need more of an "idiot dart" system. One or two penalties of a type are understandable. Even I get them, and I'm driving like a grandma. But it seems like a third penalty of an aggressive nature should be an instant disqualification and a boot from the track. Seriously. It would upset the aggros for about a week until they learned to drive a little more fairly. But at this point they're being incentivized to ruin my race in exchange for 2 seconds and an improved position in the field.

I feel like there ought to be a license requirement before online racing that covers things like driving lines and rules for overtaking. If people do understand these things then there is no reason for them to follow these conventions because there is no penalty for breaking them. But most likely they don't understand these concepts because they aren't asked to learn them or abide by them. The solo races teach nothing but bad habits, and the online races reinforce them. It's disappointing at the least.

 

[Veinz]

If you use bumper cam then keep in mind that the camera is actually in the engine bay somewhere, the tachometer and speedometer represent where your tires are. The rev bar at the top represents your front bumper.

 

[Bullwinkle]

If you use bumper cam then keep in mind that the camera is actually in the engine bay somewhere, the tachometer and speedometer represent where your tires are. The rev bar at the top represents your front bumper.

WOW! That never dawned on me! What a great observation! Thanks for that!

 

[NikNakTobasco]

Since I’ve switched to bumper cam I’ve found front on impacts reduced as I can’t see anything if I get too close! Still, the early brakers can result in me giving the slightest of touches which slow me down more than them and I get a 2 second penalty

 

[LSFDRX]

Lots of fantastic advice in here so far.

What I would add is practice practice practice, as others have said, but put a lot of that practice into qualifying and learning the track really well. I would go to the top ten times for the race and not stop practicing until I was around 1.5 sec off those times. If you can get there, you're pretty well set for a good race series. The more you are confident in the car and track layout, the easier it will be to maintain that during a race, and you can take a little stress off yourself though track confidence and ability. I ran through the ranks pretty quickly on sport because of the amount of time I played the game before ever getting into Sport mode, and though it may be pompous to say, it wasn't until A ranks that I even started being challenged, and that's all because I knew the game and cars so well, and know a little of racecraft from the real world, that they weren't a part of the issue for a long time. Through D, E, C, and most of B ranks there was little competition, and it was usually me and maybe one other running away from the pack. I'm sure with some dedicated practice time on your own, you can be this way too!

I haven't even begun go into Sport in GT7 yet because so many have experienced issues with BOP, penalties, and whatever else, and because I simply don't have enough time in life at the moment to devote to it ( I barely eek out the time for single player as it is), but I'll be in there soon and greatly look forward to it... even if it is just racing a bunch of Atenzas around all day, lol. I still need to grind out that A+ rating!

Regardless, have fun first and foremost. There will 100% be stressful days and events, but those that work out are truly rewarding, and watching your rank rise and your set of competitors get "better" is a real treat. Having competition that matches your level is much much much more fun than anything any AI can do.

Good luck!

 

[Timm Sheehan]

I'm new to racing and have been doing a lot of hot laps to try to get better. I dove into online racing last week and I'm a D/S driver at this point, usually starting around P10 or so in races. Although I managed to finish P3 a few days ago, usually what happens is that I get punted off the track in lap 1 and right out of the race. I have to struggle to get back into the race and get back to my original position, usually after the jerks rage quit and clear out of the race.

Here's what I've been able to figure out so far, and some concerns I have, and the questions that follow:

• Starting position matters. When I start higher up, I usually do better. I'm guessing because I'm shielded from the dive-bombers by the intervening cars behind me.
• People say it gets better in with higher rated racers. Based on my ruined races (which I do go ahead and finish) I don't know how to improve my driver rating. I'm guessing podium finishes or some such thing matter, but how in the world can I ever improve my driver rating when I'm usually getting punted right into last place? How will I ever get to race with the better drivers?
• It seems that, due to the "penalty" system, it's more cost effective to just punt everyone in front of me and do my 3 second penalty, leaving them far behind in the gravel trying to sort themselves out.

One last thing: my biggest weakness is driving in traffic. I'm so worried about booting other people in front of me that I tend to slow down a bit to reduce contact. What I've realized is that, in the process, I lose my markers for braking and turning, and this gets me in big trouble when surrounded by a group of cars. I don't want to be the punter, but it usually gets me punted. So how in the world can I learn to drive in heavy traffic, avoid losing my position, and at the same time avoid excessive contact? This is truly a race-craft issue, which is new to me. How do I get better at it without upsetting everyone around me in the process?

If you've read this far, you either are having the same problem or have an answer. If you have some suggestions, please please please let me know what I can do.

Everything said up to this point is awesome advice. What I do may or may not help but I race every offline race just like I would online. I try my best not to beat the AI around and get that CRB everytime. I also set out with a purpose. I too have problems with crowds (especially at certain corners) so what I do is position myself so the crowds are there so I can practice corner actions. So times this means I am not practicing for the win but with a different goal for the race. This has helped my online crowd racing I believe.

 

[vonMarshall]

Best advice I can give is to invest the time in qualifying. The closer to the front you are, the less likely you are to get rammed and once you are through the first couple of bends, you should be clear of the muppets and in a race.

 

[Bullwinkle]

Everything said up to this point is awesome advice. What I do may or may not help but I race every offline race just like I would online. I try my best not to beat the AI around and get that CRB everytime. I also set out with a purpose. I too have problems with crowds (especially at certain corners) so what I do is position myself so the crowds are there so I can practice corner actions. So times this means I am not practicing for the win but with a different goal for the race. This has helped my online crowd racing I believe.

I like the idea of “situational practice” that you suggest. What a great idea. I’m going to run some AI races and position myself in the crowd to work on those skills in a stress-free way. I also shoot for a CRB on all the solo races. If I gold without the bonus, I run it again as many times as it takes to finish clean, and then probably again just to be sure it wasn’t a fluke!

 

[sixty4half]

I would also suggest and I do this; During practice, take corners at odd angles to see how fast you can/cannot go thru them when you are forced into a different positions on the track.

Practice corners as if you were defending the inside from the straight.
Practice chicanes by taking inside corner 1 then going round the outside corner 2, and vice versa, go round outside of corner 1 and cut inside corner 2.

 

[dabz343]

Taking a step back, it's just nice to see all the positivity in this thread...kind of shows who's who @GTPLANET.

 

[Bullwinkle]

Taking a step back, it's just nice to see all the positivity in this thread...kind of shows who's who @GTPLANET.

I totally agree! The positivity is reassuring. Thanks for all the great feedback, folks! Keep it coming because I'm getting all kinds of great ideas. I really wish there was some kind of "driving academy" to learn all these sorts of skills with some instruction. I tried to figure out the GTP_WRS league in order to get some good learning experience, but it confuses the heck out of me with all the requirements and secrecy. I admit I'm a little intimidated by it (and more than a little confused about what it even is). So for now I'll keep trying to learn from your comments.

 

[The_Tullster]

Is there any way to improve my driving level other than winning races? Or is this going to be one of those things where I'm going to be stuck in the low grade until I learn to push back and win?

Driver rating points are awarded or deducted based on your position in the final results table and the difference in DR between you and the other drivers. You gain some for every driver who finishes behind you and lose some for every driver who finishes ahead of you. If you finish in the middle of the results table, your DR will change very little. If you finish at the top you gain a lot, if you finish last you lose a lot. Having higher rated drivers than you in the race increases your gain or reduces your loss, depending where you finish. If most of the drivers are lower rated, the reverse is true.

Also, the more drivers in the field, the more points there are to gain or lose. So three factors:

• Finish position
• Relative DR
• Number of drivers