Ideas to be a cleaner driver?

[homeforsummer]

Save the clean driving for online play where people get pissed off if you bump them. I always bump the AI cars, they will wind up ramming me anyways.

For some races its easier just to nail the guy in front of you on the last turn rather than playing honest and risk getting 2nd place.

Only some of us prefer to have a clean race regardless as you feel like you earn it more than just ramming the AI off on the last corner.

Don't get me wrong, I see no problems with "contact", after all the AI move in some strange ways sometimes so contact is occasionally unavoidable, but good old-fashioned ramming is not the way to race.

As for online, there are far better reasons for not ramming someone other than "they'll get pissed off if you bump them"... things like skill, cameraderie anc courtesy are the reasons I'd use for not running into someone, rather than just the fear of reprecussions...

Put it this way, you shouldn't be actively trying to not ram someone (apologies for the double negative) because you're so used to doing it, you should go into a race with the attitude that you'll race cleanly and use that as a reason to avoid bumping someone.

 

[Lucas]

Only some of us prefer to have a clean race regardless as you feel like you earn it more than just ramming the AI off on the last corner.

Don't get me wrong, I see no problems with "contact", after all the AI move in some strange ways sometimes so contact is occasionally unavoidable, but good old-fashioned ramming is not the way to race.

As for online, there are far better reasons for not ramming someone other than "they'll get pissed off if you bump them"... things like skill, cameraderie anc courtesy are the reasons I'd use for not running into someone, rather than just the fear of reprecussions...

Put it this way, you shouldn't be actively trying to not ram someone (apologies for the double negative) because you're so used to doing it, you should go into a race with the attitude that you'll race cleanly and use that as a reason to avoid bumping someone.

I wish every member who wrote a double negative added that to the post. It makes it slightly harder to comprehend for me.

Anyways, homeforsummer got it all right, in my case at least. When I drive, I try to avoid contact, but it does happen sometimes, due to the AI. The only times I drive dirty (wall ride), is when I have to turn the PS2 off quickly and I can't be bothered to end the race cleanly, taking my time.

If I were to drive online, I would drive cleanly for the reasons mentioned above by homeforsummer. I would also add one thought to what he said:

If drivers in an online race wouldn't mind to get rammed, would you ram them to win?

In case you don't know my answer, I wouldn't ram them.

 

[Pitracer100]

If drivers in an online race wouldn't mind to get rammed, would you ram them to win?

In case you don't know my answer, I wouldn't ram them.

I like that line it seems like a riddle in my eyes.
Anyways, during AI races and sort I use my low level of skill to
own the competiton:tup: But it seems if I was playing GT5P and my oppopnent did an blatant ram to make time on me I would be hot-headed
and would shove this rival to get retaliation\n I wouldn't try to
ram to win though.👍

 

[ploopsy]

Only some of us prefer to have a clean race regardless as you feel like you earn it more than just ramming the AI off on the last corner.

Don't get me wrong, I see no problems with "contact", after all the AI move in some strange ways sometimes so contact is occasionally unavoidable, but good old-fashioned ramming is not the way to race.

As for online, there are far better reasons for not ramming someone other than "they'll get pissed off if you bump them"... things like skill, cameraderie anc courtesy are the reasons I'd use for not running into someone, rather than just the fear of reprecussions...

Put it this way, you shouldn't be actively trying to not ram someone (apologies for the double negative) because you're so used to doing it, you should go into a race with the attitude that you'll race cleanly and use that as a reason to avoid bumping someone.

Nothing wrong with ramming them. Especially in races that I dont care about with players that are not real. If I run the risk of having to repeat a big race or series I will totally plow into an AI car (especially with the american muscle car races, I dont want to repeat that ****).

Like I said, Ill save the clean driving for opponents that actually give a ****. Ramming is essential if you want to save yourself from some boring ass races. Ramming is also help full when you have done the race a zillion times and you just want to farm some money asap.

 

[homeforsummer]

I'm sorry but I disagree completely. Ramming is certainly not essential. As I hinted in my last post you should be racing with the intention of doing so cleanly and contact should be accidental at best. And if you're set on gaining money as quickly as possible, surely the best idea is to use a car vastly quicker than anything else in the race, rather than using something slow enough that you have to ram people out the way with?

You shouldn't have the attitude that the only reason not to ram people online is because they'd be cheesed off if you did, which appears to be the greater issue. The motivation behind not ramming should be to have a good, clean, fun race.

I don't have any figures to back my next statement up but I'm happy to make the assumption that the people who race cleanly against the AI in GT4 are far more likely to be the people who race cleanly online. I'm very suspicious of people who claim to race cleanly online yet are more than happy to punt cars off left, right and centre when they're racing the AI.

I'd like to remind you that you are on a forum where for the most part, members strive to race cleanly whether against real people or AI cars, so if you carry this attitude into other parts of the forum you might find others not taking too kindly to it. There is absolutely no skill involved in winning races that you've only won through pushing other cars off the track.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I'm assuming what now? You were the one posting a link about tuning to win. I responded to that.

I started my posting in this topic writing that, in this game, I rather bump (which is ugly driving) and win than redoing the same race over and over just to be able to say that I won cleanly. You then replied that I might master your great skills eventually ("get it eventually").

There ya go, buddy! that's the spirit!

Whether you in fact want to "get it" is certainly your choice. It just makes for a much more satisfying virtual racing experience, but whatever. Your choice.

I'll get back to you with what race and what car and then I'd like to see you win that race without touching AI. If you do I'll bow to your awsomeness. If you don't then I suggest you in the future reconsider telling other gamers to "get it" as if they are goofs not sharing your perspective and also reconsider how highly you think of your own skills.

Cool. Yea, get back to me/us. I'm very curious.

Granted, you may be right. Perhaps the car you were driving, in fact, was in over its head. There is such a thing as "too inferior" for sure.

I'm sorry but I disagree completely. Ramming is certainly not essential. As I hinted in my last post you should be racing with the intention of doing so cleanly and contact should be accidental at best. And if you're set on gaining money as quickly as possible, surely the best idea is to use a car vastly quicker than anything else in the race, rather than using something slow enough that you have to ram people out the way with?

You shouldn't have the attitude that the only reason not to ram people online is because they'd be cheesed off if you did, which appears to be the greater issue. The motivation behind not ramming should be to have a good, clean, fun race.

I don't have any figures to back my next statement up but I'm happy to make the assumption that the people who race cleanly against the AI in GT4 are far more likely to be the people who race cleanly online. I'm very suspicious of people who claim to race cleanly online yet are more than happy to punt cars off left, right and centre when they're racing the AI.

I'd like to remind you that you are on a forum where for the most part, members strive to race cleanly whether against real people or AI cars, so if you carry this attitude into other parts of the forum you might find others not taking too kindly to it. There is absolutely no skill involved in winning races that you've only won through pushing other cars off the track.

👍

 

[ploopsy]

I'm sorry but I disagree completely. Ramming is certainly not essential. As I hinted in my last post you should be racing with the intention of doing so cleanly and contact should be accidental at best. And if you're set on gaining money as quickly as possible, surely the best idea is to use a car vastly quicker than anything else in the race, rather than using something slow enough that you have to ram people out the way with?

You shouldn't have the attitude that the only reason not to ram people online is because they'd be cheesed off if you did, which appears to be the greater issue. The motivation behind not ramming should be to have a good, clean, fun race.

I don't have any figures to back my next statement up but I'm happy to make the assumption that the people who race cleanly against the AI in GT4 are far more likely to be the people who race cleanly online. I'm very suspicious of people who claim to race cleanly online yet are more than happy to punt cars off left, right and centre when they're racing the AI.

I'd like to remind you that you are on a forum where for the most part, members strive to race cleanly whether against real people or AI cars, so if you carry this attitude into other parts of the forum you might find others not taking too kindly to it. There is absolutely no skill involved in winning races that you've only won through pushing other cars off the track.

The whole point of video games is that you can do stuff that you cant do in real life. If its just me and the ai then there is no one around to get upset about what I do.

I race clean online, I always do cause there is not much point in being a griefer. I need money to buy cars to enter races that matter. I am fine with admitting that I ram ai cars but who cares? its not like anyone else had there game ruined.

if my opponents are real people then i drive clean, even if some noob plows into me. please dont lecture me anymore, I know when its good to be good and when its good to be bad.

 

[homeforsummer]

If you see it as a "lecture" then I apologise - I merely considered it a discussion in which I disagreed with you.

I would like to reiterate though that I see no skill in punting people off whether they're real people or AI. If you wanted a game where you could knock people off the road to your heart's content then GT4 is a rather strange and unsatisfying choice given that there's no damage and the crashing physics are a bit lame. Hence (I suspect) why most of us would rather cause wrecks in Grand Theft Auto or Need For Speed, and why most of us choose to race cleanly in GT4 rather than punting everyone off the road...

 

[Parnelli Bone]

The whole point of video games is that you can do stuff that you cant do in real life. If its just me and the ai then there is no one around to get upset about what I do.

I race clean online, I always do cause there is not much point in being a griefer. I need money to buy cars to enter races that matter. I am fine with admitting that I ram ai cars but who cares? its not like anyone else had there game ruined.

You're wrong about that. There's a long, long line of Ai drivers with kids to feed and mortgages to pay who would be keen to disagree with you.

No, in all seriousness, I can think of a couple reasons why this is bad practice. #1 being that it's unnecessary, especially since you know you can do better, and #2, it creates bad habits. I'd rather race clean as I can all the time, so that when I finally do start racing online, my skills will be honed. 💡

Think of it this way. People going into flight preparation, whether it be for flying in the armed forces, or for commercial purposes, must go thru rigorous simulation training. I'm not sure how strict this sort of training is, but I'd bet somebody who continuously jacks his virtual plane into buildings, then turns to his instructor, and says "But it's just a game!" won't wind up getting his chance to fly a real plane anytime soon...

if my opponents are real people then i drive clean, even if some noob plows into me. please dont lecture me anymore, I know when its good to be good and when its good to be bad.

WEll, at least you know the difference, I'll give you that. 👍 You're not going round saying it's "impossible" to race clean. 👍

 

[RaidoGT]

Of course bumping the AI off deliberately is contrary to the point of the game. (It's also for "n00bs" and people who can't drive, but anyway.)

In GT4 the AI are your *opposition*, which you have to try and overcome thru racing. Since bumping them off falsifies the competition (after all, if you've been bumped off you can't race at that moment, and/or lose places), there's no point of playing for the win - you're supposed to *race* them to the finish line, not bump 'em off trying to get there.

(And yes, I know the AI is coded as bone-headed as they come and they don't care at all where *you* are... but that's what you, as a player, have to overcome. And then have a totally justified rant against those überdumb GT4 coders, of course.)

 

[Parnelli Bone]

You know...there's so much discussion about how DUMB the Ai is, there rarely is any mention given to all the times it does wind up making nice, clean passes. There are plenty of times I've been passed cleanly by computer oppenents, actually. It's sometimes quite a shock when you don't expect it, especially if you're like me and use the hood/roof view (which has no mirror/limited side viewing).

Such moments make the game so much more worthwhile....at least till GT5 finally comes along.

 

[ploopsy]

I do like to practice clean racing, but I do that on fun races, driving missions and endurance runs. I dont always nail the ai on purpose, in some races I just dont care if I do or not. The only reason I even do those crap races is to get closer to 100%. If the race is called "american muscle" "civic cup" "ff challenge" or something similar im not going to make an effort.

Just think of the game as the way you live your life. There are times when you can joke around and then there are times when you gotta be serious. Its not like ramming cars on purpose will cause any bad habits. Its just a will full use of a different strategy.

BTW Ramming the speed 8 on the tsukaba mission is the easiest way to defeat it

 

[PF]

I'll use a quote from the eloquent RaidoGT, but this applies to all recent posts:

the point of the game

There is no point to the game beyond what the player wants out of the game. As an extreme example, Player A simply wants to collect all the cars in the game in all colours. They will use Bspec for every race (except Spec Con and missions/licences for the prize cars), so clean driving is not even an issue.
Player B wants 100% with 0 Aspec miles (except for missions, Spec Con etc), so clean driving is not even an issue.
Player C likes doing doughnuts, so clean driving is not even an issue.
Player D likes to drive cars backwards, so clean driving is not even an issue.

My point is that we all play the game for different reasons. While I strongly believe in clean driving, we must all accept that others play the game for different reasons.

 

[homeforsummer]

My point is that we all play the game for different reasons. While I strongly believe in clean driving, we must all accept that others play the game for different reasons.

That's never been under any doubt. It's just worth noting that as a rule, people on these forums do race cleanly regardless of whether it's against people around the world or just the AI, so saying you go around punting may occasionally be frowned upon.

And, as I hinted, there are games in which it's far more fun to punt (GTA etc) so it seems strange doing so in GT where it's fairly unsatisfying to try and punt stuff off.

 

[Alltidxx]

You're not going round saying it's "impossible" to race clean. 👍

Who is? I've never seen anybody say that. You'd like to think that because it gives you a reason to rant is my guess.

I think everyone makes good points. However, the clean driving or die advocates are a bit uptight I find. But gaming is serious business right? Especially giving AI a bump seems to be one helluva upsetting formula.

go around punting may occasionally be frowned upon.

I rather experience a storm of protests.

And, as I hinted, there are games in which it's far more fun to punt (GTA etc) so it seems strange doing so in GT where it's fairly unsatisfying to try and punt stuff off.

First, I'd like to say that I think both you and parnelli have really good points. I'm having a bigger issue with parnellis attitude than his arguments in fact. However, is it so hard to understand that there may be times when people tackle the AI rather than risking coming second? It happens quite alot that one has to go farm money for a new car or upgrade and that takes a whole bunch of time apart from the time it takes to clear the track the first time. So say for example that one drives around and don't totally concentrate because it is just a race to raise cash and you slip and risk ending up 2nd which would result in way less cash and you'd have to do it all again. Is is so hard to understand then that some people prefer squeezing into where there is no room and thereby giving the AI a bump to get ahead (and no, I don't have any overpowered car yet to run these races with since I started up GT4 not so long ago)? If you answer "yes" to this question then I know that this behavior is simply beyond understanding for some. And then we need no longer discuss it. Some people interpret bumping AI as running into them so hard they fly off the track. Not sure why they chose to think of the worst offence they could imagine and use that as a benchmark for what driving unfairly is.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I do like to practice clean racing, but I do that on fun races, driving missions and endurance runs. I dont always nail the ai on purpose, in some races I just dont care if I do or not. The only reason I even do those crap races is to get closer to 100%. If the race is called "american muscle" "civic cup" "ff challenge" or something similar im not going to make an effort.

Just think of the game as the way you live your life. There are times when you can joke around and then there are times when you gotta be serious. Its not like ramming cars on purpose will cause any bad habits. Its just a will full use of a different strategy.

Ramming cars on purpose IS a bad habit. It is not a strategy. Do not confuse this. When was the last time you saw Michael Schumacher or Kimi Raikkonen slamming their way thru their competition? Never? 💡 ahhh...

This entire arguement (clean versus dirty racing) is nothing new. It's been going on for years. On one side of the coin, there's always those saying:

"Well, it's just a game. I bought/borrowed/stole it, so I can do whatever I'd like with it".

Which is fine...it's your game. You bought/borrowed/stole it, you can do whatever you'd like. But don't confuse dirty racing with skill or strategy. 💡 Those 2 are complete opposites. This is not football. And if you choose to come here talking about how dirty driving (even against the computer) is okay, I'm sorry, but I (and several others) are not gonna agree with you! And we will continue to point out our reasons WHY we disagree.


....NOte to PD: please include damage in GT5!!! Give these punting drivers something to fear!

Who is? I've never seen anybody say that. You'd like to think that because it gives you a reason to rant is my guess.

I think everyone makes good points. However, the clean driving or die advocates are a bit uptight I find. But gaming is serious business right? Especially giving AI a bump seems to be one helluva upsetting formula.

I rather experience a storm of protests.

First, I'd like to say that I think both you and parnelli have really good points. I'm having a bigger issue with parnellis attitude than his arguments in fact. However, is it so hard to understand that there may be times when people tackle the AI rather than risking coming second?

To me? Yes, it is hard to understand this. It seems cheap, no offense. I'd rather race cleanly and lose, matter of fact.

It happens quite alot that one has to go farm money for a new car or upgrade and that takes a whole bunch of time apart from the time it takes to clear the track the first time. So say for example that one drives around and don't totally concentrate because it is just a race to raise cash and you slip and risk ending up 2nd which would result in way less cash and you'd have to do it all again. Is is so hard to understand then that some people prefer squeezing into where there is no room and thereby giving the AI a bump to get ahead (and no, I don't have any overpowered car yet to run these races with since I started up GT4 not so long ago)? If you answer "yes" to this question then I know that this behavior is simply beyond understanding for some. And then we need no longer discuss it. Some people interpret bumping AI as running into them so hard they fly off the track. Not sure why they chose to think of the worst offence they could imagine and use that as a benchmark for what driving unfairly is.

Just so we're both on the same page, let's backtrack and review this discussion between us, because I think you're missing the point.

1). You started by saying it's "totally fair" to punt the Ai. Then you added that if you're driving an "inferior" car, that makes punting/bodyslamming even more okay.

I disagreed. I then politely added that it's possible to win in an inferior car without resorting to dirty tactics, and even offered words of encouragement "you'll get it eventually"....assuming you want to get it, of course.

2). To which you replied it's "impossible" to win with an inferior car. You said you 'doubt I'm even capable of doing so'...essentially calling me a liar. Here's what you said, actually:

I don't think I will in this game. There is no incentive to drive cleanly. I doubt you drive inferior cars and win without bumping AI.

So at this point, I have the choice to either agree with you, disagree with you, or simply ignore you. I chose to disagree. This had become a debate, after all.

But I didn't flame you. I instead tried to give you helpful advice: it's possible to outbrake them or whatever I said.


3). All a sudden, you've backpedalled. All a sudden, now it's possible to win against the Ai in an inferior car if the driver is a "good" one.

But wasn't this my original comment in the first place? Urrgh.




....anyways, enough of that. I am uptight about this subject, so I'll agree with you there. But don't forget I started our little discussion off with polite and (what I thought were) helpful comments, which you quickly debunked...essentially saying it's "not possible" to do the things I (actually, we) were offering, even though several of us disagreed. So if you don't like my attitude, ask yourself how I wound up getting one in the first place?

 

[homeforsummer]

However, is it so hard to understand that there may be times when people tackle the AI rather than risking coming second?

In answer to this, I've played through GT4 a couple of times now (save for the 24 hour races, which I never had the time for even using B-Spec) and if it didn't look like I was going to win, then I'd finish the race where I was then race it again. I was never too fussed about a 100% win rate as everyone loses races at some point so if I did it in a particular race then hey, I'd do it again.

At the moment, I race GT4 purely for fun and to drive all the unique cars I can't drive in any other game. I freqeuently lose races (I frequently win them too, of course) but when I do it's generally because I've made it very difficult for myself - and that's the nature of racing. I'm not about to push someone off on the last corner just to get that win - I'd much rather have a clean, fun race and finish second. Or third. Or lower. As long as I'm enjoying it then I don't mind.

That of course is the beauty of the organised GTP LAN events. Even if you finish last you have a whale of a time.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

^Agree with homeforsummer completely.

I apologize if I've come across a bit harsh and stuff folks. It's just that I've always taken racing games (except Mario Kart ) somewhat seriously, as if they're actually happening. If I get massively punted by the Ai...the race gets restarted. If I somehow slip up and slam another car (yea it happens occasionally)...the race gets restarted. In real-life, all this would amount to a caution, or a driver getting banned, even, depending on the race organization's rules. But the race would basically be over for those drivers if such accidents were to occur. I've watched plenty of real-life racing over the years, I have yet to see ANY driver (no matter how bad or good) go around forcefully pushing others around without serious consequences. Light contact happens all the time, but I have YET to see a driver totally SLAM into another driver to try and get an advantage. If such a thing happens, it's always obviously an accident.

So if I were to allow anything that wouldn't happen in real-life (pushing, punting, etc) even once, it would cheapen the entire experience of the game. Hence I get miffed when others allow such behavior.

 

[Alltidxx]

3). All a sudden, you've backpedalled. All a sudden, now it's possible to win against the Ai in an inferior car if the driver is a "good" one

Well I guess it looks that way. I should've really qualified what exactly I meant with "inferior" I suppose. I didn't so I guess it is free for all to assume that I meant a car that has 150hp compared to the the competition having 151hp, right? Well, shame on me then I guess. That was not my idea of inferior however.

You on the other end paid no attention to exactly how inferior the car would be and still claimed to be able to win with no contact. Can't you see how unreasonable and arrogant that is? Yes you can, because later on you admitted it depended on exactly how inferior the car is. But at the start, this was no problem for you and if I couldn't hack it, I might "get it" eventually.

You call that being courteous or polite? I don't.

Well nevermind all that. I will still give you the details. It has taken a few days because of family, work and training I don't get around to play every night so bear with me. It's the first race in the beginners light weight cup though.

And for all those that cannot understand the pushing (in my case we are not talking violent rammings). Fair enough then, we just have different perspectives. Right now I feel like I want to kinda move on with the game and when redoing tracks for money I do get impatient at times. Proving my skill to myself is a subordinate priority to getting the money in those situations.

 

[DK]

In some cases, I believe in "an eye for an eye" when someone rams me. But, wasn't it the wise Mahatma Gandhi who said, "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."?

 

[Adamgp]

But if I may cite a quote Cole Trickle (Tom Cruise) and Harry Hogge (Robert Duvall) from Days of Thunder:

Harry Hogge: Cole, you're wandering all over the track!
Cole Trickle: Yeah, well this SOB just slammed into me.
Harry Hogge: No, no, he didn't slam you, he didn't bump you, he didn't nudge you... he *rubbed* you. And rubbin, son, is racin'.

 

[Alltidxx]

Parnelli,

I drove the Mitsubishi Minica Dangen ZZ -89 in the Beginners Lightweight cup at the first track: "Motorland".

Go get yourself a turbo upgrade 1 because I did that. If you manage to win with no contact I sure would like to see it.

Sorry for taking so long.

 

[PF]

Parnelli,

I drove the Mitsubishi Minica Dangen ZZ -89 in the Beginners Lightweight cup at the first track: "Motorland".

Go get yourself a turbo upgrade 1 because I did that. If you manage to win with no contact I sure would like to see it.

Sorry for taking so long.

You're the bloke calling him out, so can I suggest you post a vid of YOU doing this?

I'm not familiar with the car, so can't have a decent opinion.

EDIT:It's been won with a stock Honda S600 '64 (10 km spec) at 56hp, and the Honda Beat at 58hp (twice). Both cars stock (S2s, no AIDS, no oil). Perhaps you'd like to take on this challenge and then offer your humble opinions?

 

[Austin343]

PF, both of those cars are FRs, and may well be faster at Motorland than the FF Minica, even with the power disadvantage. Also, I'm pretty sure that neither race was won cleanly; at a track as narrow as Motorland, some slight contact from AI moving into the player's line is inevitable, particularly in a slower car than theirs. Of course, none of that contact would have been the type of punting to which Alltidxx was referring, which would be intended to deliberately gain an advantage, rather than be incidental.

When I get time tonight, I will try my best to win under Alltidxx's parameters. I believe it can be done.

 

[homeforsummer]

So do I. Even with a little rubbing - I'd consider this a clean race, but outright punting isn't. Perhaps the AI might give you the occasional nudge but I don't think I'd need to push anyone off the track to win it. I'll give it a go as soon as I can.

 

[Rykon Zero]

The Beat is an MR, and I have to say that when dealing with less than 300 hp, an FF is usually better.

 

[homeforsummer]

Yeah, the less powerful the car, the less the driven wheels seem to matter.

I drove the Mitsubishi Minica Dangen ZZ -89 in the Beginners Lightweight cup at the first track: "Motorland".

Go get yourself a turbo upgrade 1 because I did that. If you manage to win with no contact I sure would like to see it.

Well, I've just attempted this myself to exactly the conditions you mention and won it easily with no deliberate contact whatsoever. There was only one instance of contact of any sort, where the AI got a slightly better run than I did out of a corner and nudged my back end as we pulled away. Other than that the race was entirely clean, and I'd passed all five cars cleanly by three-quarters the way around lap three of four. The game reckoned the race was only worth 20 A-Spec points and I've won much more difficult races than that with no contact.

I've saved the replay though I've no easy way of recording it an uploading it, but if necessary I can go through and save photos of each overtake to prove that there was more than adequate space between my car and the AI.

It turns out that the Minica with the stage 1 turbo upgrade as described is more than fast enough, too. I suspect I could even win the race cleanly without the turbo upgrade, though perhaps not by lap three.

 

[Austin343]

Oops - I knew the Beat was MR, but I accidentally wrote FR instead of RWD. And I think that rear-wheel drive cars still have an advantage at such low power because turning the wheel doesn't hinder acceleration like it does in a front-wheel drive car. FFs are easier to drive than some of the RWDs that like to slide (the Beat, for example), but when driven smoothly, the latter are definitely faster. And surely you don't actually think that, at least within GT4, a 290 HP front-wheel drive car is "better" than a 290 HP rear-wheel drive car?

I just did this now, too. I did it completely cleanly, with no contact whatsoever and two tires always on a hard surface. I had a much harder lineup than HFS did, as it was worth 49 A-Spec points; perhaps his Minica had had an oil change, too, whereas mine didn't. I took the first lineup offered (1-5: Wagon R RR, Cappuccino '95, Kei Works, Beat Version F, Copen), which should be the same first lineup that everyone else would get, to ensure that there was no selective usage of a lineup that would have made the race easier. This one was definitely difficult to pass cleanly, as the last three cars all come together in a wad in the first, long corner, and the Cappuccino is permanently stuck beating the rear bumper of the R RR. I passed the first three all at once on lap one, on the outside of the long corner and the sharp one at the end of it, barely able to keep the two right-side tires on the tarmac without grazing the Beat under braking. I got by the Cappuccino under braking for the same sharp turn on lap two, but had to wait behind the mobile chicane (the R RR) until I took a late apex at the last corner of lap three to pass on the start/finish straight.

The car is actually slower on the straights than some of the AI cars are, but a human driving it can drive it far faster than the AI opponents. The only problem lies in avoiding the AI cars. If you accept that it is not your fault, and not to your benefit, that an AI car barges into you while you take a valid racing line, then this race is a cakewalk to win cleanly. If you are still dubious, I can take a video, but it won't be of very good quality.

 

[DK]

Have a bath?

Dude you stole my line!

 

[homeforsummer]

Dude you stole my line!

For the love of God. You already posted the same damn joke, after Daan did, a whole two weeks ago. If you really have nothing more constructive to add to the discussion than commenting on a joke that you yourself already posted then I suggest you post elsewhere.

I just did this now, too. I did it completely cleanly, with no contact whatsoever and two tires always on a hard surface. I had a much harder lineup than HFS did, as it was worth 49 A-Spec points; perhaps his Minica had had an oil change, too, whereas mine didn't. I took the first lineup offered (1-5: Wagon R RR, Cappuccino '95, Kei Works, Beat Version F, Copen), which should be the same first lineup that everyone else would get, to ensure that there was no selective usage of a lineup that would have made the race easier. This one was definitely difficult to pass cleanly, as the last three cars all come together in a wad in the first, long corner, and the Cappuccino is permanently stuck beating the rear bumper of the R RR. I passed the first three all at once on lap one, on the outside of the long corner and the sharp one at the end of it, barely able to keep the two right-side tires on the tarmac without grazing the Beat under braking. I got by the Cappuccino under braking for the same sharp turn on lap two, but had to wait behind the mobile chicane (the R RR) until I took a late apex at the last corner of lap three to pass on the start/finish straight.

My Minica did indeed have an oil change 👍 I already had one in my garage that I'd given an oil change when I first bought it but I'd otherwise left it alone.

That said, the lineup I got was pretty much the same - the Copen and Cappuccino were certainly present, with the 'Cino coming second in my race. I expect the discrepancy in our A-Spec points was due simply to your car having less power, rather than the level of the competition.

I'm going to attempt the race without the turbo to see if it's still possible to win cleanly.