If GT5 is supposed to be a REAL driving simulator.....then why??

[Ben Aracin]

Heh, Photo mode and B-spec mode.......the biggest wastes of programming space and fluff(hide the other flaws) modes ever introduced in the series.
The biggest mistake of the series.
With EVERYTHING else that was very much NEEDED fixed, those two single ideas should never have been allowed to make into a RACE/SIMULATOR style game but were, why?
Even as "bonus easter eggs", but the "fans" ate it up.
I'll agree to a point, if GT4 would have had it's other tried and true flaws fixed first, then they went "oh yeah we decided to give our fans a couple extra modes for fun" then i wouldn't have made nearly as much complaint department comments but its not that way and so i will always tell it like it is.
Even though "the millions of fans" who do enjoy it will flame me, dissagree,etc.
As for reverse lights, sound, damage, etc.... Instead of reverse lights I'd rather they use the lights on the cars for what they are supposed to be there for...to see while driving at night.
We will have to wait and see if that ever happens but from thew track record...i doubt it.
Damage? only if done accurately.Would only add to the lighting/racing.
Sounds? they had better better be true to life this time, There WILL be NO excuse if they screw up this time, PERIOD.
Sounds, Engine transmission,etc. DO add to the realism and are a large part.

 

[Dave A]

What flaws would you have had fixed instead? Do you realise that adding things like real time lights eats cpu power, that was power the PS2 didn't have, photomode or not. Reverse lights are as neccesary as having real time wing mirros in the behind the car view, sure it'd be a neat detail but how many extra hours of gamepla would reverse lights really add. And damage, well I'm one of the people who would love damage, but again, that requires processing power, the PS2 didn't have much for games of GT4's caliber, you also have licensing issues which can take it out of PD's hands. The sounds should have been better imo, that's about it. And as far as physics go, there was only one other console game out that could touch GT4, that was Enthusia, Enthusias wern't imo better overall. I do rate the two games on a par in that area. Where one makes mistakes the other does better and vice versa. The fans ate up photo-mode because photo-mode is fantastic addition, some people have spent hours upon hours using photo-mode, can you imagine people spendin hours and hours putting thier cars into reverse to see the reverse lights come on? Didn't think so.

 

[Stevisiov]

What flaws would you have had fixed instead? Do you realise that adding things like real time lights eats cpu power, that was power the PS2 didn't have, photomode or not. Reverse lights are as neccesary as having real time wing mirros in the behind the car view, sure it'd be a neat detail but how many extra hours of gamepla would reverse lights really add. And damage, well I'm one of the people who would love damage, but again, that requires processing power, the PS2 didn't have much for games of GT4's caliber, you also have licensing issues which can take it out of PD's hands. The sounds should have been better imo, that's about it. And as far as physics go, there was only one other console game out that could touch GT4, that was Enthusia, Enthusias wern't imo better overall. I do rate the two games on a par in that area. Where one makes mistakes the other does better and vice versa. The fans ate up photo-mode because photo-mode is fantastic addition, some people have spent hours upon hours using photo-mode, can you imagine people spendin hours and hours putting thier cars into reverse to see the reverse lights come on? Didn't think so.

A point well made, again i can see why reverse lights are of interest to add realism however i really can't see how this can make or break a game for you. A few weeks ago i was very concerned that force feedback wasn't going to included in the game. For me this was the pivot point of the game because for me loosing force feedback would have ruined the feel of the game, without feeling in the game it would have lost half of the game, the other half being the awsome amount of cars and tracks and the general essence of Gran Turismo. Now it is fortunate that this issue has been resolved, however i can't see how the issue of lights is going to give the game a better feel or make it a more rounded Gran Turismo game. While i seldom use the photomode i can see how this will benefit the 'car enthusiast' who will like to take photographs of their favorite cars, and it would be naive to think that, that is as far as photomode goes, i have seen some great photo's and you claim that time would be better spent making lights work properly on the very few night stages that are in Gran Turismo. I would advise you to turn up the brightness on your TV if you are struggling to see, there is sufficient lighting to see on all of the night stages. This is why i believe that fully functioning lights shouldn't be at the top of PD's list.

 

[buickgnx88]

In my opinion, i think that Photomode and B-spec mode were good ideas. B-spec was nice for longer races or races at tracks that you don't like. Photomode is awesome because you can take pictures of your cars either while racing, or sitting in certain locations, and can upload them onto your computer. It allows you to get really creative and make professional looking photos with minimal ease. I know there are "flaws" that COULD have been adjusted, but like said before, the PS2's capabilities meant some parts would have to be left out. I can see the arguement for backup lights, they are just nice to have to give that extra sense of realism, and even mostly all arcade games have them. (IMO, turn signals would be awesome because you could sit in the fast lane of the track with your turn signal on and go super slow which would make for great instant replays, but it would be unnecessary otherwise) Damage would be a nice addition, but I'm not really a fan of it because I think it spoils the look of the car when it's damaged. Sound is something that I would really like changed...it annoys me how several of the cars sound the same, and they aren't even the same class! (Sports car compared to say a compact) Plus some of the muscle car engine sounds just didnt sound satisfying enough. And when you gave the car an upgraded exhaust, it sounded crappier and sounded the exact same as another car with the same exhaust! Thats just not right....For GT5 they should write some sort of program that can change the exhaust sound (for an upgrade) using the original exhaust sound, and just modifying it.

 

[amped602]

Its probably been discussed a million times but ill throw it in this thread since we are on the topic. Damage is very important for online play. It just creates a more governed race rather then players coming up with their own strategy to bump one another off the road. If PD is offering all these extra online features then they should offer damage in my opinion. If PD doesn't add damage, it’s going to be freakin bumper cars rather then players racing. Now a meter will most likely be placed to measure the damage if PD does decide to add that feature but the likely hood of them implementing actual damage on the car itself is slim to none. Yes, the reverse lights, skid marks on the road, and all that other miner stuff is cool but really wouldn’t matter much when racing. I just hope that pd offers the damage feature, even if its just a meter bar of some sort.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Its probably been discussed a million times but ill throw it in this thread since we are on the topic. Damage is very important for online play. It just creates a more governed race rather then players coming up with their own strategy to bump one another off the road. If PD is offering all these extra online features then they should offer damage in my opinion. If PD doesn't add damage, it’s going to be freakin bumper cars rather then players racing. Now a meter will most likely be placed to measure the damage if PD does decide to add that feature but the likely hood of them implementing actual damage on the car itself is slim to none. Yes, the reverse lights, skid marks on the road, and all that other miner stuff is cool but really wouldn’t matter much when racing. I just hope that pd offers the damage feature, even if its just a meter bar of some sort.

I'm all in favor of optional damage mode both online and off, like F1CE offers on the PS3. However, just be warned, if you are concerned about how online players might behave in a race, having damage could easily result in "cheating", where instead of just bumping you, one person in the race could target you and others and take you out so that there friends have a better chance of winning.

If you get a chance, try and see or participate in an online F1CE race with damage off. They designed it so that you cannot bump the other players either, as from the perspective of each driver, the other cars are "ghost" cars, in that you cannot hit them, they just fade a little when you are on top of each other.

This way, you are basically racing a timed race, although with all the excitment of seeing your competitors racing at the same time, but without fear of anyone taking you out, accidentally or not.

Personally though, if I know and or trust the other players in the race I prefer damage on as it not only adds realism, but adds a much more interesting factor of danger, risk, and corner strategy.

I guess the point I'm making is that while I agree with you, damage is a much needed feature missing from GT, it has to be optional, and unless you are comfortable with the other drivers in an online match, you are probably much better off turning damage off, or risk some suicidal, or inexperienced driver taking you out of the race on the first lap. 👎

 

[amped602]

I'm all in favor of optional damage mode both online and off, like F1CE offers on the PS3. However, just be warned, if you are concerned about how online players might behave in a race, having damage could easily result in "cheating", where instead of just bumping you, one person in the race could target you and others and take you out so that there friends have a better chance of winning.

If you get a chance, try and see or participate in an online F1CE race with damage off. They designed it so that you cannot bump the other players either, as from the perspective of each driver, the other cars are "ghost" cars, in that you cannot hit them, they just fade a little when you are on top of each other.

This way, you are basically racing a timed race, although with all the excitment of seeing your competitors racing at the same time, but without fear of anyone taking you out, accidentally or not.

Personally though, if I know and or trust the other players in the race I prefer damage on as it not only adds realism, but adds a much more interesting factor of danger, risk, and corner strategy.

I guess the point I'm making is that while I agree with you, damage is a much needed feature missing from GT, it has to be optional, and unless you are comfortable with the other drivers in an online match, you are probably much better off turning damage off, or risk some suicidal, or inexperienced driver taking you out of the race on the first lap. 👎

You definitely made some good points there, and there is always going to be a strategy of some sort. But adding damage is more affective than not having it at all. And we are talking about GT here, so i doubt they will add any kind of damage. Well i take that back because they did surprise me with the Ferrari but I've said this before and ill say it again, GT wont add major features until they are forced into it. I.E. extra online features They are starting to see that forza might be a slight threat if not a big one. Also, is GT not seeing this feature as an advantage on their part? The topic of damage keeps coming up on a lot of threads. So it would be a wise decision on their part to add such a great feature. Dam Japanese developers are very unpredictable, but gotta love their culture!

 

[URBsmkr]

GT5 is going to be sweet, there is no denying that,especially w/ the PS3s graphic and processing capabilities. Along with more cars to race against and online play. But like it or not there is some ideas that PD can borrow from NFSC to make GT5 more fun to play and more realistic. Such as:

1. The ability for some cars that don't have traction control to do donuts and leave skid marks.
2. Reverse lights( sounds unimportant, but it seems rediculous to leave it out of a game considered to be the REAL driving simulator).
3. Being able to see the nitrous gas release from the exaust pipes.
4. Damage
5. Being able to choose your rim size when customizing your wheels(maybe even having it effect the vehicles handling).
6. Window tinting.
7. Real engine sounds.
8. The ability to hire and fire pit grew members.

I don't think that these are to many things to ask for, especially since they don't require any additional licensing since these are things that people do to their cars in REAL life anyway. Oh yeah.....and don't bring back that rediculous fire that spits out of the exaust of normal cars(not in GTHD), and that idiotic Vegas strip drag race where you don't even race against anyone!!


P.S What ever happen to the real drag strip races that were in either GT2 or GT3? They should bring that back with online play(and add about 1000 ft til you reach the finish), where the loser loses there car.Why can't PD think of sweet s@#$ like this!!!!

 

[shabba]

Damage online would be workable if they had some sort of genuine 'black flag' facility - but even then you'd have problems. It would be very difficult to police it and judge who gets the black flag, or when.

Maybe different leagues of racing could have different damage levels - keep damage off for the basic beginner and open races. Possibly you could have a 'vote' system where at the start of each race the players check or uncheck the 'damage' option, and the majority win.

I would reserve full damage for the pro-am level races and invitation races - the ones with the proper racing teams and well known racers. I believe that this arena would be where damage would be appreciated the most.

As for lighting and such, for any game to make good use of lights, the depth of vision would have to be enough for it to be viable. If I whack on my high beams and spot-lights at night, I can see a loooooong way down the road. Would such powerful lighting have the same effect on a game such as GT5? If not, then there's no real benefit in having such lighting.

I notice that the car lighting in the GT games seems to be more of a visual nicety than a useful feature. For example, in GT3 if you come up Special Stage R5II and into the pits, if you watch the replay where the road dips down and then back up again, your headlights shine through the surface of the main track as it obscures your vision of the car. Same thing coming over humps in R5 and R11 - you can see the lights shining through the track from the other side when you watch the replay.

I haven't played any of the NFS games for a long time, but I remember in NFS 3 you could switch your high beams on/off with the up button on the D-pad. It was a nice touch - I'd like to see the same thing on GT. My memory of it is a bit vague, but at the time I was impressed by how effective the high beams seemed to be on that game.

If you wanted to be uber-picky about the 'real driving simulator' tag, you could demand many things - working indicators, horns, etc. - since you're 'driving' real road cars that come with them IRL. However the question is: is it worth it? Any programming company are going to look at it and ask a few questions:

1. Will it sell more games?
2. Can the hardware we're using (e.g. PS2, XBox) handle it?
3. Do we have the disc space to put it in?
4. How hard will it be to program in, and how much time will it take?

Obviously there would be many more questions asked to try to justify including stuff, and so there will be things left out - reverse lights for example. Dynamic tyre marks are another - I remember playing the original NFS and sitting there doing donuts in a Viper. After a short time, the tyre marks would begin disappearing like somebody was going over them with an eraser! Why? Because each tyre-mark took up memory, and when the game ran out of memory it would erase old burnout marks to make room for new ones. And that was in a game with pixelly graphics and only a half-dozen cars. Hardware limits will always be the bane of any programmer.

Having said that, I wouldn't be against having the little niceties like that, but not at the expense of the rest of the game. Would I have preferred to have Red Rock Valley Speedway or Grindelwald in GT4 instead of Photomode? Probably, but then how it is is how it is. Maybe if we yell loudly enough, Red Rock and Grindelwald might find their way back into GT5... If they could do that without having to sacrifice anything else (like Photomode), even better.

The other thing we need to consider is this: all sequels and series of games are evolutions of their roots. Take GT for example. Look at how it has evolved from GT1 to GT:HD. The game has grown and changed as PD have learned and explored their boundaries.

Why do I say that? Because if the games keep evolving as they have, then today's B-Spec could be tomorrow's fully fledged Racing Team management mode, built on that experience gained from B-Spec. The fact that GT3 was called 'Gran Turismo 3 ASpec' tells me that the idea of B-Spec didn't start with GT4, else why the 'A-Spec' reference? Were they planning on releasing a GT3 B-Spec as well? I don't know.

However, I look forward to seeing the next evolution in GT, as it grows past the PS2's limitations. Who knows - with the processing power of the PS3 they might be able to include reverse lights and realistic burnouts. Damage modelling has a lot more potential with PS3. With new hardware to play with, it's hard to say what PD will come up with next. Some of the info and teasers given have a lot of promise, though. Some very nice carrots to be dangling.

Just my thoughts.

 

[amped602]

GT5 is going to be sweet, there is no denying that,especially w/ the PS3s graphic and processing capabilities. Along with more cars to race against and online play. But like it or not there is some ideas that PD can borrow from NFSC to make GT5 more fun to play and more realistic. Such as:

1. The ability for some cars that don't have traction control to do donuts and leave skid marks.
2. Reverse lights( sounds unimportant, but it seems rediculous to leave it out of a game considered to be the REAL driving simulator).
3. Being able to see the nitrous gas release from the exaust pipes.
4. Damage
5. Being able to choose your rim size when customizing your wheels(maybe even having it effect the vehicles handling).
6. Window tinting.
7. Real engine sounds.
8. The ability to hire and fire pit grew members.

I don't think that these are to many things to ask for, especially since they don't require any additional licensing since these are things that people do to their cars in REAL life anyway. Oh yeah.....and don't bring back that rediculous fire that spits out of the exaust of normal cars(not in GTHD), and that idiotic Vegas strip drag race where you don't even race against anyone!!


P.S What ever happen to the real drag strip races that were in either GT2 or GT3? They should bring that back with online play(and add about 1000 ft til you reach the finish), where the loser loses there car.Why can't PD think of sweet s@#$ like this!!!!

WTF? Nitrous being released from the exhaust pipes? Dude have you even seen a car in real life when it hits Nitrous Oxide? You must be a young kid because of the crap you are asking for. And to compare such a masterpiece to such utter crap is an insult to PD. Wow, lol yes you are asking for a lot, a lot of worthless crap. I love playing GT for the simple fact that it has some real dam good physics, and not to mention the detailed settings on the cars. Choosing the size of rims in racing is worthless since only one size works the best. I think you are looking for looks and screwing around with donuts in the game rather then tweaking the settings to get the best lap time or an extreme drift. The game aint about how bad ass your car would look doing a donut with 26" rims throwing out flames from an exhaust pipe. Leave that crap in the ghetto where it belongs

 

[Jay]

WTF? Nitrous being released from the exhaust pipes? Dude have you even seen a car in real life when it hits Nitrous Oxide?

He talks about NFSC as an example of realism........... What did you expect.

 

[URBsmkr]

First of all GT4 is DEFINITELY NOT a masterpiece, I guess your one of those people in life who don't mind settling for less!! And as far as putting 20inch+ rims on a car being something for only people in the ghetto sounds just as stupid as calling GT4 a masterpiece. You MUST be from the sticks, because in the city where I'm from everyone hooks up their rides with rims! White,black,brown, yellow, whatever.....idiot! Also I never compared NFSCs realism to any GT games. I said it is more thought out and more fun to play, and no I have'nt ever seen someone use nitrous in real life, but I also never seen a AUDI RS4, or Mercedes SL55along with plenty other non-tuned vehicles spit fire from the exhaust pipes either(as it does in GT4).

 

[amped602]

First of all GT4 is DEFINITELY NOT a masterpiece, I guess your one of those people in life who don't mind settling for less!! And as far as putting 20inch+ rims on a car being something for only people in the ghetto sounds just as stupid as calling GT4 a masterpiece. You MUST be from the sticks, because in the city where I'm from everyone hooks up their rides with rims! White,black,brown, yellow, whatever.....idiot! Also I never compared NFSCs realism to any GT games. I said it is more thought out and more fun to play, and no I have'nt ever seen someone use nitrous in real life, but I also never seen a AUDI RS4, or Mercedes SL55along with plenty other non-tuned vehicles spit fire from the exhaust pipes either(as it does in GT4).

First of all watch who you call an idiot. Second of all, overly sized rims that make a car look like a toy is predominately popular amongst the people who live in the inner city or those who claim to act ghetto but they aint. Third of all dont assume that im an idiot from the sticks, i was raised in LA and now live in Phoenix (one of the largest cities in the US). I know why people put rims on their cars and i also have rims on my ride as well. Are they oversize chrome rims? no. I have a nice staggered setup on my G35. I like style but i don't like it looking ghetto and i also love performance. I like to balance out my options rather then making my car look like a clown car.

It seems you missed my point about the rims so debating with you is worthless and a waste of my time.

 

[buickgnx88]

Well the rim size issue isnt all of a bad thing...some vehicles in the previous games looked normal with stock rims, but if you added aftermarket rims, they looked horrible. I mean, not everyone wants 14" rims on their Chevy Chevelle SS, or wants 13" rims on thier '70 Honda Civic. Or what if you want a staggered look, such as 18" and 19" rims? Plus, if people feel like trying to race with "dubs", then let them. They can then learn that big rims aren't everything they're cracked up to be. Window tinting shouldn't be necessary since from what I saw, all the cars in GT4 had tinted windows (could barely see inside the car). Skidmarks would be good for realism since IRL, you don't see cars skidding around the tracks without making skidmarks. Donuts on the other hand, seem realistic already. IF you believe that when doing a donut, your front wheels completely stop and you do a complete circle around them, then yur a bit off. Nitrous is never seen being thrown out the tips, its only portrayed with Flamethrower exhaust kits, or special effects.

 

[OZZYGT]

Guys, please don't even bother with this guy, he will never listen/learn. From the moment I saw that he kept bringing NFSC into a GT conversation, I said ahhh forget it...

 

[S31Ender]

Actually, this is starting to get annoying. Out of 7 threads he's posted in, five of them he's posted this in...... Two threads of which he started on the exact same reason. Thread hijacking is not cool. Comparing the two games is all fine and good. But you need to be objective about it and take in both sides of an arguement (such as the generation gap in consoles, physics realism, but then also the customizing options, etc). However, taking five threads to do it is unacceptable. All of which merely just bugs me. What actually angers me however, is the disrespectful language he chooses to use in his posts, even so far as to intentionally work around the swear filter. They are there for a reason.

Need for Speed Carbon(PS3) vs. GT4(PS2)
If the PS3 is a supercomputer, why is GT5 taking so long?
Has PD gone overboard with graphics?
For those who have a PS3! NFSC vs. GT4
If GT5 is supposed to be a REAL driving simulator.....then why??










And to keep slightly on topic.
GT5 is the Real Driving Simulator.
It means it simulates, but that doesn't mean it's going to be perfect. Simulations are just that, not real. So you get as close as you can. The PS2 can only do so much. I can't wait to see what the PS3 does.

And one final point on topic.
This thread is called "If GT5 is supposed to be a REAL driving simulator.....then why??"
I could understand if you had said GT4. I wouldn't agree with you, but I'd understand. However, this thread is a little early. GT5 hasn't been released yet. And until it is, it is not open for debate on it's simulation capabilities, because it isn't set in stone yet.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[shabba]

WTF? Nitrous being released from the exhaust pipes? Dude have you even seen a car in real life when it hits Nitrous Oxide? You must be a young kid because of the crap you are asking for. And to compare such a masterpiece to such utter crap is an insult to PD. Wow, lol yes you are asking for a lot, a lot of worthless crap. I love playing GT for the simple fact that it has some real dam good physics, and not to mention the detailed settings on the cars. Choosing the size of rims in racing is worthless since only one size works the best. I think you are looking for looks and screwing around with donuts in the game rather then tweaking the settings to get the best lap time or an extreme drift. The game aint about how bad ass your car would look doing a donut with 26" rims throwing out flames from an exhaust pipe. Leave that crap in the ghetto where it belongs

You're always going to get people who want to 'pimp' their ride, as the cliche goes - even in GT. Many of them get told "Eff off back to NFS", but really, is it right to deprive them of the pleasure of GT? You may not see any value in such cosmetic niceties, but if it doesn't impinge on the gameplay, what is the harm in it? I mean, come on - if GT is so hardcore racing, why does it have free runs, arcade mode, photomode and such? No flaming exhausts? Okay, I'll give you that the 2Fast2Furious coloured exhaust flames are crap, but all hard-tuned race cars spit fire at some stage. I agree that if PD are chasing realism, then things like Nitrous and the likes should look/sound/act realistically. However, things like rim size/style, etc. really is up to personal choice. Remember that a lot of the cars in GT are road cars, and in real life you can choose different rim sizes (within reason). If the game can handle it, why not have that feature available?

As there are so many cars in GT, and so many players, is there a harm in allowing people to modify theirs? Yes, those that turn up with spinners and neons and all the stereotypical 'rice bling' (if it were in the game) will probably get laughed at, but that's their choice. It's like a bunch of import nuts laughing at a domestic muscle car, or the other way around. Who's right and who's wrong? At the end of the day it's all opinion, so to simply say 'I'm right and you're wrong' is really saying to that person that their opinion doesn't matter. The only way you can 'prove' an opinion wrong is with indisputable fact, of which there really is none in regard to the issue.

For example, 'One size of wheel always works best' isn't necessarily true - cars have different sized tyre diameters and brake diameters. Putting 14" rims on a car that has 16" brakes is not going to work... But then neither would you put 22" rims on a car that only has a 20" tyre diameter - unless you are going to increase the size of the tyre on the car as well. Different styles of racing use different wheels as well. Just look at a WRC car - they run low profile slicks on tarmac, but high profile treaded tyres on rough/unsealed surfaces. There are quite a few reasons why - including the fact that they fit bigger brakes on the car during tarmac stages.

At the end of the day, though, you don't see 'pimped' road cars racing along with JGTC or BTCC cars - each has its own marque. There could be a 'bling' road car championship... who knows? Besides, can you really classify cars with a nice paintjob and some big rims (plus plenty of go-go) in the same category as the full on 'ricer' cars?

Put it this way, if I buy a JZA80 Supra, there's no way it's staying stock. I'd love to build something like the Top Secret Supra with it. Lots of money, but plenty of fun. No, there wouldn't be spinners or nitrous spray or hydraulics or neons, but there'd be a paintjob, rims, body-kit and wheels - as well as all the necessary mechanical go-fast bits. Moral of the story - things with body kits and big wheels don't necessarily qualify as 'ricers' or 'go play NFSU'. There are people out there who like the visual aspects of the game, so it's not exactly 'crap' or 'irrelevant'. Might be worth considering before writing off somebody else's opinion.

Just my thoughts...

 

[Sage]

URBsmkr – Don’t call someone an “idiot”, ever.

amped602 – While I (to be perfectly honest) totally agree with your sentiments, I think it would’ve been better if you’d ignored him instead of starting a confrontation by calling his ideas “crap” over and over again.

Anyway, no more arguing. Please continue as it was before the argument.

 

[Dave A]

shabba I agree completely. Giving people more choice to customise a car is not a bad thing, as long as in a game like GT it's kept realistic. For example, adding oversized rims would result in the suspension movement being compromised and the tyre's scrubbing the inner arches. Fitting the wrong bodykit could result in increased weight or compromised aerodynamics ect. I wouldn't like things like spinners and neons, they don't offer any performance advatage / dissadvantage in races. I wouldn't argue to be able to use them in photo mode, for people that like thoes things they could still benefit that way. The more open the game is the better imo, body customisation is a big thing for me. I'm not into the MaxPower scene, but I would love to create my own race car with my own pant scheme and my own aero kit.

 

[URBsmkr]

If being able to control wheel size for after market rims is not important to some.....then why not be able to choose from different stock size rims. Mercedes, Cadillac, BMW,Jaquar, etc. Give you the choice of what size rims you want on your vehicle when you buy it from 17inches all the way to 20s , why not incorporate that in GT5. If choosing rims size is such a ridiculous idea for the game, than why even have aftermarket wheels for sale at all? It just like the reverse lighting issue, why leave it out of a game considered to be th REAL life driving simulator? Don't take it personal your the consumer not the developer!

 

[URBsmkr]

Oh yeah and as far as kitting your car out being a child like, or a so called ghetto request, I clearly remember that being an option in GT2!

 

[Danny]

I would totally agree with choosing wheel sizes (larger ones at extra cost, of course).

Maybe a bit anal, but car spec would be nice too.
Particularly, specifying that I want a Mercedes E350 4Matic rather than the full time RWD one.

 

[Stevisiov]

Being able to customize wheel size is a good idea, i would also like to be able to change the profile of the tyre like was stated earlier however it is important to remember that these are not just visual changes that occur, increasing the wheel size will have an exponencial increase on the circumferance of the tyre. To put it simply increasing the diameter of by an inch will have a large increase on the circumferance , increasing the diameter by a further inch will have an even bigger increase on the circumferance than the previous increase. This will have a very noticeable effect on the performance of the car. Increasing tyre diameter will slightly increase grip due to a larger surface area in contact with the road, they increase the potential top speed substancialy, due to a larger distance covered per revolution of the wheel,(providing there is enough torque)

This also comes with noticable disadvantages, acceleration will be reduced as a result aswell as deccelaration making the car overall less responsive. In an endurance race scenario the increase in wheel diameter will reduce fuel economy and cause your tyres to wear down quicker. In the rare event of racing in the wet in GT the increased tyre diameter also increases the risk of aquaplaning (hydroplaning).

So if you want to buy larger wheel diameter for just visual purposes, then it will not be a problem however for a car which needs to be race worthy aswell then you will need to consider the consequences and how to make an increase in wheel size advantageous e.g. you will need to make adjustments to your gear ratio.

Please correct me if i have made any incorrect assumptions (which is probably not to unlikely)

 

[Dave A]

One benefit of bigger wheels you missed is that bigger wheels reduce drag, they don't allow as much air to get in behind the arches. One downside is that potential for suspension travel is reduced.

 

[S31Ender]

Oh yeah and as far as kitting your car out being a child like, or so called ghetto request, I clearly remember that being an option in GT2!

What are you talking about?

 

[Dave A]

He's on about the race mod you could do in GT1 and GT2 where you could give your car a bodykit and decals.

 

[URBsmkr]

GTHD is sweet, graphically. But its still a disappointment in some areas. I'm just saying that PD could borrow some ideas from NFSC(the same way NFS did Mid. Club) while still staying GT with all the driving physics and the rest of that technical stuff, and make GT5 sweeter.I mean does it really make sense to leave out skid marks(and have tire smoke) have brake lights(but no reverse lights), be able to buy aftermarket wheels(but not choose the size of them)?

 

[S31Ender]

by the way, I decided to take a look at NFSC and rented it.

In no way are the graphics better than GT4. The draw distances are no better, they compensate for lack of clarity and processing power by "speed blurring", the cars are not as detailed and the coloration/lighting isn't as good.


Now, as for the skid marks, reverse lights, and rim size on aftermarke wheels in GT4, it's just plain old processing power that's needed. The PS2 simply couldn't handle EVERYTHING so KY decided to leave those out. The "bodykits" and "child stickered" cars in GT1 and 2 aren't that and shouldn't be compared to NFS. In GT they were to represent full on racing modded cars. The "bodykits" were extremely subtle if there were any and the decals were race team sponsors meant to represent a professional racing team, not show car street advertising and bling factor.
As for GT5.....it ain't out yet, so we can't really "discuss and compare" NFSC and GT5 now can we?

With all that being said, with the power of the PS3, I agree that some extra's will need to be added. I highly doubt that KY will be putting bling bodykits on the cars anytime soon, but at least we CAN expect reverse lights and skid marks or else be disappointed in KY. I think different size rims should be incorporated but to a limited extent. A size or two yes, because there are advantages and disadvantages to that in real life racing, however, it's stupid to see 18 -20 inch rims on a 1992 honda civic.
Something as minor as the above on the PS3 can have no excuse this time, there is enough power to go around. Although, the fact that a game running on a 7 year old console is even being compared to a game running on todays latest 600 dollar machine means KY did something right at least, the physics are better, the graphics are better. The only thing NFSC has over GT4 is storyline and the unique customization culture.

Time to end the debate and wait for GT5 before we continue since GT4 is the wrong generation (and therefore comparing apples and oranges) and GT5 isn't released yet so who knows what the final project will look like.

 

[Dave A]

Rim size has little to do with the hardware limitations. Skid marks do, and to a much lesser extent, reverse lights do. I don't think in the case of rim size and reverse lights Kaz decided not to include them because of hardware limitations, I think they just never mulled it over.

 

[URBsmkr]

GT4 having better graphics than NFSC is your opinion which your 100% entitled to. But I feel while GT4 may have a more realistic look there still are jagged lines on the cars that are not there in NFS. I admit that comparing the too was a bit unfare(maybe NFSCPS3 vs. Proj Goth.360 would be a more accurate comparison) . Especially after beating NFS and spending more time on GTHD that I realised that they are in two completely different categories. I may have been a little too caught up in the game while in the process of beating it. But their are alot of things that PD still could improve on in GT5,(all the things previously mentioned) and the fact that they left them out of GTHD has me a little worried. Like the fact that the game has 10 different vehicles but you cant race against any of them you just have to race solo in Time trial or Drift mode. It's that type of illogical thinking that has me a little worried! The graphics are so sweet that my girlfriend(who hates all video games) is like damn that sweet!And if they add reverse lights,damage,skidmarks,the abilty to do donuts, and Rim customizing(size and color) I will be completely satisfied!