Improvements!....Physics-wise

[CC570]

I'm not entirely sure on it. I do think that the mass of the car including fuel is lumped into a point that can be placed anywhere in the car body, but the forces on the car are distributed properly. One reason being that GT5 cars have massive generic fuel tanks, even the smaller ones, and they don't seem to change behavior going from full to empty or vice versa.

Another thing is that when launching a car, it always goes perfectly straight (assuming flat surface). Out of 1000 cars, I'm sure that more than a few don't have perfect 50/50 left/right weight distribution.

Weight balance also is not changed when you perform a weight reduction, though that is possible to a degree, and as I pointed out above, wheels don't seem to have any mass or friction attributed to them. Take a Ferrari F1 to Daytona and park it so that a wheel comes off the ground on the banking. It will spin forever unless you hit the brakes, and no matter how lightly you touch the brakes, the wheel stops instantly when not in contact with the ground.

This (bold text) is one of the most noticeable flaws in GT5's physics. I'm sure every car simulator treats the car as a point mass with a center of inertia to model how the car moves relative to the background. PD apparently treat the drivetrain forces as acting inline with the center of mass. Why I don't know.
After driving a sim for any real time, the lack of wiggle under hard acceleration and now arcade-like ffb makes going back to GT5 a bit of a bitter pill.

 

[Osr20_L]

Yes, for sure. I did'nt think of the slipstream/drafting part though.. But now that you mention it.. 👍

I was more on about how aeroedynamics seam to be calculated just wrong.. Perhaps it have to do with lack of drag cooficient calculations or whtever, but all in all, the whole aero/drag/slipstream/drag cooficient needs to be totally rebuilt/reprogrammed.

:tup:Yes..and also how come in GT5 the diference in speed when you're running full aero an minimum aero is just 2 - 4 kmp o even less??!! And in reality the difference is a lot more cause of the drag

 

[Osr20_L]

Or the fact that (I've been told) that GT5's tire model is very basic. Driving below 5 km/h in GT5 is impossible, because the car will actually unrealistically slide around.

So true!!! Low speed physics in GT5 it's a joke!!!

 

[MSTER232]

GT4 players will know: "Understeer all the way!" - Cars felt like they didn't have suspention nor steering, sadly.

When I played GT5 for the first time, I realized that they improved the physics engine, but they still have plenty of work ahead.

As much as I love Gran Turismo 4, I'm asking you sincerely not to remind me of how bad the understeer was in GT4.

We all know that the current physics of GT5 is the best among the consoles to date but... it has some flaws like:
-lack of understeer feel on the wheel.
-almost now grip in very low speeds, it feels like the car is over ice sometimes.
-over exagerated grip reduction after going over grass or sand..
-etc..

So the question is... is this physics limited by the performance of the console? or just more programing neded? And is it possible to achive phisycs almost like the PC sims on the ps3??

I disagree, grip levels are fine.

 

[Gabtremblay]

I really wanna see improvement in car transmission and responsivness, it's not different enough between cars.. Authentic transmission works would be nice

 

[Gabtremblay]

Especially for drifting to have different control rather than fwd rwd and awd

 

[Patrick]

Maybe the can get tire wear right in GT6.

 

[MSTER232]

I really wanna see improvement in car transmission and responsivness, it's not different enough between cars.. Authentic transmission works would be nice

Especially for drifting to have different control rather than fwd rwd and awd

Edit button, please!

Take a Ferrari F1 to Daytona and park it so that a wheel comes off the ground on the banking. It will spin forever unless you hit the brakes, and no matter how lightly you touch the brakes, the wheel stops instantly when not in contact with the ground.

If you don't have a Ferrari F1, then it's also possible with a FGT which gives the same results. While this isn't a major problem with the physics, it's still a flaw which should be fixed in GT6.

 

[Ganondorf]

All I really want is proper collisions. I mean, they say they added damage, but really, car damage in the real world is a lot more than grey smudges on the bonnet. Actually, the front of the GT-R looks like it's starting to melt after a collision - the shape just warps. Rolling over is by far the worst problem though. Some cars actually seem to dance on the nose or tail after a roll.

 

[sinbad]

I just want to see dynamic weight distribution from more realistic pitch and roll of the suspension.

That means more variation of grip levels at different corners of the car in different states of acceleration/braking and cornering.

Another thing you lose with such restrained suspension movement is a sense of power, and a sense of grip.

Because the body does not roll enough (even f1 cars roll) it gives the appearance of too little weight. With an appearance of too little weight, you get a vastly diminished sense of tyre grip. And when a fast road car does not pitch backward under acceleration, or lunge forward when you hit the brakes, or pitch forwards and backwards on gear changes, it doesn't appear to weigh as much as it should.

So if something doesn't seem to weigh anywhere near what it should, and therefore the tyres don't seem to have the grip that they should (1g cornering is fine, but if the car appears to weigh nothing, then the tyres surely are less grippy) then the engine must not be as powerful as it should be either.

What I'm trying to say is that without the impression of mass and inertia that you only get with realistic suspension movement, everything else looks false or watered down.

A 500bhp 1800kg tank of a muscle car that launches with no drama and no hint of squatting down just looks like a plastic shell being driven away with 100bhp.


Maybe we'd get lift off oversteer and fun-to-drive fwd cars too, then.

 

[Osr20_L]

I think (PD) will need to use another physics engine to achive a proper improvement.

 

[Hyped]

Low speed physics need to be improved. I hate driving into a hairpin and sliding while coasting.

 

[MSTER232]

I think (PD) will need to use another physics engine to achive a proper improvement.

Let's hope that the new physics engine will be much more realistic than GT5 👍 .

 

[1241Penguin]

Low speed physics need to be improved. I hate driving into a hairpin and sliding while coasting.

There's only a problem when you're going under 5 km/h, so chances are you shouldn't be experiencing any sort of sliding around as if the road is covered in ice.

 

[CC570]

i think (pd) will need to use another physics engine to achive a proper improvement.

+1

 

[shirakawaa]

Pretty much everything needs to be overhauled if PD wants to reach PC-sims, from the tire model, to suspensions model, transmission model, differential model, mass distribution model, collision model (I'm NOT referring to damage modeling, although that is worth a mention), aerodynamics and of course car parameters/settings/set up and engine tuning model (in GT1 it was more advanced, believe it or not). Also different weather/asphalt conditions in different track sections, effect of wind, temperature, altitude, humidity on the car's handling and power delivery, etc (this definitely has to be implemented if Pikes Peak or other hill climbs get included).

Listing everything in detail now would take much time, so I'll save this for other messages. Maybe we can build a list over time?

In PD's defense, however, I think that many inconsistencies are due to the very general nature of their physics engine. PC-sims usually focus only on a narrow range of cars and situations.

 

[Hyped]

There's only a problem when you're going under 5 km/h, so chances are you shouldn't be experiencing any sort of sliding around as if the road is covered in ice.

In some cars, whenever I lift off it slides, which no matter the setup shouldn't happen.

 

[1241Penguin]

You mean something like this?

 

[Osr20_L]

If anything I think there is too much grip!

Too much grip??!! try other tires beside racing soft an turn off the Skid recovery

 

[JBanton]

How about bringing in soft-body physics for cars? (Cue long debate )

 

[thelvynau]

Or another thing is when the cars land after a jump make it that the cars land more realistically.

 

[anotherone10]

Tyre deformation.

 

[BlisteredHand]

Realistic track scenery physics. Such as crashing into walls/tyre barriers/gravel. You should be able to get stuck in tyre wall or gravel and have to retire.
Gravel would be easy with just a random calculation to either let you out or stop you with just spinning wheels. Tyre barrier would need some graphics work in addition to physics.
Would also like damage physics to be able to result in complete car failure forcing a retirement. Same for empty fuel.

 

[Exorcet]

Gravel would be easy with just a random calculation to either let you out or stop you with just spinning wheels.

I don't really like scripted events. They could probably make some simple simulation of gravel that would determine your mobility.

 

[BlisteredHand]

Yes I suppose they could with more work. Calculating your momentum through any given region of gravel compared to it's holding properties for that region. Those properties would change for rain also. It would also need to calculate car angle and steering angle to give the right effects to whether you get stuck in or travel over it.
Of course with GT6 I hope roll over and launching over curbs into gravel is factored in (online also).
It should also be car effected, meaning an F1 car is highly likely to get stuck, but a road car with high clearance (especially a 4wd) maybe more able to negotiate itself out of gravel.

 

[zr1chris]

Does clutch support count towards physics? The current clutch support is a joke.

 

[Gabtremblay]

Does clutch support count towards physics? The current clutch support is a joke.

The whole transmission physics are aweful, all cars have the same transmissions and shifting gears always takes half a second.. I'd like that to be improved so we have cars that react differently when shiftting gears..
Which for us drifters would be very interesting, it would be for basically anyone really

 

[Gabtremblay]

The whole transmission physics are aweful, all cars have the same transmissions and shifting gears always takes half a second.. I'd like that to be improved so we have cars that react differently when shiftting gears..
Which for us drifters would be very interesting, it would be for basically anyone really

By having the same transmission i meant the shifting gear part.. Sorry if im unclear..

 

[Teflonicus]

well, y have played dirt 2 & 3, toca racedriver ps2 (good one), enthusia ps2 & Forza4 xbox.... In PC it's another story.. Maby it's more a personal prefference and i feeld a bether physics on GT5, maby i'm wrong...

And yes...i also hope PD step up they're game with the physics on GT6 👍

Why do I have the impression that it took me longer to read your post than it took you to write it? I don't wish to jump all over someone for the odd typo or misspelled word either. This is hardly a case of that though.

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Tyre degradation for endurance events. I really hope PD fix this. There is the matter of tyres wearing too fast--and of hard racing tyres not wearing slow enough when compared to soft racing tyres, but there is also what I presume is a physics issue: The tyres don't lose grip gradually enough. One moment you have reasonable grip and the next you can't change from 1st to 2nd gear without having the back come around. Tyre wear needs to be made significantly more complex.

 

[Mike712]

In my eyes, the cars are also way too easy to drive. You may underseer out of a corner, but nothing more. Doesnt matter how much power you have what tyres. You can abuse the cars in GT5 way too much, before it gets dangerous.

Take any TVR, turn off all the driver aids, no ABS, no traction control as they don't have any in real life, do a few laps, come back and say the same thing