Input lag

[Timppaq]

Dude you said the two vids are out of sync, and tried to back it up by reffering to the hand animations, but the thing is we already established the hand animations are out of sync with the G25 anyway, so how can you relate to the vids being out of sync?

LOL

So you don't get it, huh?

---> supposing the videos are out of the same run, being in sync the above & lower left videos should be showing the animated hands moving 100% in sync. It's the best reference point to get them running back to back.

 

[Raitziger]

Timppaq is right that animations on those two camera angles are out of sync. This means there is no point to compare g25 rotation to that other camera.

 

[Custer85]

Dude, my gripe is the reaction of the car on screen not the wheel animation.
Watch this video and look how the car itself also reacts later.


Noticeable around 1:43

You should concentrate on the part of the video in the lower left corner. You can see the actual ingamepicture and the movement of the wheel and the latency is not as obvious as compared to the frame on the top. It seems they recorded the videos seperately and connected them with a bit of delay.

I see the difference in the movement of the wheel and the wheel ingame, but the effect on the movement of the car is hardly detectable. I will try that at home later and post about my experiences tomorrow.

@cicohipe:
trust me his Caprice is fine it got TÜV here in Germany and that means the car is in good shape. Its just that the power steering is killing any feel for the road and the first few degrees of movement arent even translated into movement of the tires. I mean the car is really old (1977) and i said it is the worst inputlag i ever encountered. Iam very aware of the fact that racecars dont have a deadzone like this, but most of them dont even have power steering. But many road cars have this deadzone, its not as big as it is with the caprice, but its there.
In drivingshool in Germany we were told that two fingers of "lenkspiel" (thats how this deadzone is called in Germany, i dont know the English word for it) is normal and everything above it should be checked. But this refers to new cars, the 77 Caprice is old and back then more "lenkspiel" was normal i guess.
Iam 24 now so drivning shool is long ago but i still remember it and i can even check my books if its mentioned there.

 

[dancardesigner]

LOL

So you don't get it, huh?

---> supposing the videos are out of the same run, being in sync the above & lower left videos should be showing the animated hands moving 100% in sync. It's the best reference point to get them running back to back.

I just edited my post twice lol, you are right

 

[dancardesigner]

Thing is you have to experiment for yourselves to get an idea for what i am saying, it is no good me trying to back myself up with Youtube videos, the combo of feel through the wheel and what you see on screen is where you notice it.

 

[Zer0]

But to fully appreciate what i am saying you have to play the games and compare, Gt5 feels delayed, it feels limp and not direct like PC seems do.

@ Famine LOL

I don't understand this thread, why spreading so much FUD?

The post processing settings in tvs make the input lag not GT, if you have input lag in the game you have input lag in any other game or console played on your tv.

You don't have input lag in your PC games because you're direct playing on a PC monitor without any image processing, turn off all the stuff on your tv or search for a "game mode" and you will have the same direct feel, easy task... or may be your tv is one of these that work very bad for videogames because the lag, who knows.. I don't have any lag problem with my setup the turning radious is 1:1 sync in cockpit view/G25.

 

[dancardesigner]

I don't understand this thread, why spreading so much FUD?

The post processing settings in tvs make the input lag not GT, if you have input lag in the game you have input lag in any other game or console played on your tv.

You don't have input lag in your PC games because you're direct playing on a PC monitor without any image processing, turn off all the stuff on your tv or search for a "game mode" and you will have the same direct feel, easy task... or may be your tv is one of these that work very bad for videogames because the lag, who knows.. I don't have any lag problem with my setup the turning radious is 1:1 sync in cockpit view/G25.

In a way although you have tried to put me down, you have infact backed up my thoughts exactly. How ironic.
Off course the problem is the TV or console aswell maybe. That is my whole point, consoles and TV's lag. PC does not.

 

[dancardesigner]

Zero do the test i say, by whipping your wheel fast, it even delays in GT5 on my Dell monitor, that is why i believe it is in part HDTV and in part PS3/GT5

Anyway LOOK

[/IMG]

 

[Raitziger]

someone on avforums did input lag test on crt+ps3 and i gave an lag of 25ms if i remenber right.

 

[dancardesigner]

someone on avforums did input lag test on crt+ps3 and i gave an lag of 25ms if i remenber right.

So was that lag in part PS3?

 

[Zer0]

That is my whole point, consoles and TV's lag. PC does not.

And that's because I don't understand this thread, play a PC game in your TV with bad settings and you will have input lag, play with good tv settings and you will don't have input lag.

Make the test with the active steering and assisted driving off, the only input lag I found was playing with the Gamepad on early Prologue's updates.

Later will try the test but never had that problem.

 

[dancardesigner]

And that's because I don't understand this thread, play a PC game in your TV with bad settings and you will have input lag, play with good tv settings and you will don't have input lag.

Make the test with the active steering and assisted driving off, the only input lag I found was playing with the Gamepad on early Prologue's updates.

Later will try the test but never had that problem.

You have probs just not noticed it, it is noticeable when making fast turns.
Anyway look

[/IMG]

 

[Azerach]

bit of a drive by post here, havent read the whole discussion, but i think the 'lag' we are seeing is caused by a number of things.. like mentioned by others monitor/tv can be a huge factor here, adding 10-30ms of lag in most cases. controllers add a few ms of lag. vsync or triple buffering adds lag of course. the way the renderer is setup might add lag....

but most important in this case i would say is filtering of controller input. This is an old method of eliminating inaccuracies with controllers, if this wasn't done the driver would jitter the wheel even if you held your own wheel perfectly still (at least he would if an old controller was used, modern ones don't have this problem)

What this does is it takes the last few controller inputs and averages them, making the controls feel a lot smoother... and adding that 1 or 2 frame lag that has riled us up BUT... do we have confirmation on if the filtering only applies to the animation of drivers arms, or does the actual turning of the car also occur lagged?

Edit: PC games often don't do this filtering, console games do... that i think is why PCs seem to lag less

 

[Timppaq]

BUT... do we have confirmation on if the filtering only applies to the animation of drivers arms, or does the actual turning of the car also occur lagged?

Yes we have: I can confirm that the actual movement & reactions of the car regarding to the wheel inputs does not lag.

 

[Azerach]

Yes we have: I can confirm that the actual movement & reactions of the car regarding to the wheel inputs does not lag.

that's cool 👍

just a visual annoyance then

 

[Timppaq]

yep. It also helps if you play the game... you'd know this.

 

[dancardesigner]

Yes we have: I can confirm that the actual movement & reactions of the car regarding to the wheel inputs does not lag.

Timpaq that is not true. Do the test i said. I mean look at the front wheels while doing the test, stop making assumptions of video footage, it is a lot harder to see the difference with the vehicle than the wheel.

 

[Strittan]

Timpaq that is not true. Do the test i said. I mean look at the front wheels while doing the test, stop making assumptions of video footage, it is a lot harder to see the difference with the vehicle than the wheel.

Have you even played GT5 Prologue? Just curious, because you're the first one I've ever heard complaining about this...

 

[chepe371]

Write PD and Sony a letter, tell them you're boycotting them over fractional lag on a 3 minute "demo" of an unfinished product.

If there is full driver animation, it shouldn't be a problem u will have 1:1 movement.

 

[dancardesigner]

Have you even played GT5 Prologue? Just curious, because you're the first one I've ever heard complaining about this...

Of course, i have it which i why i notice it. I also play PC sims which is why i feel the difference. Anyways if you did the tests like i have told everyone else you would see.

 

[Zer0]

You have probs just not noticed it, it is noticeable when making fast turns.
Anyway look

[/IMG]

And what a proof is that? a laggy tv?

Just compare:

.....

Anyway:

it even delays in GT5 on my Dell monitor

Since your monitor is not a native 1900x1080 the scaling of the picture can produce lag, a lot of monitor have lag problems with no native resolutions from external sources

 

[dancardesigner]

Write PD and Sony a letter, tell them you're boycotting them over fractional lag on a 3 minute "demo" of an unfinished product.

If there is full driver animation, it shouldn't be a problem u will have 1:1 movement.

OMGWhy can't people read the thread and see what has been discussed instead of butting in with silly comments.

GT5P LAGS
GT5 LAGS
PC SIMS DO NOT LAG
PERIOD

 

[dancardesigner]

And what a proof is that? a laggy tv?

Just compare:

.....

Anyway:

Since your monitor is not a native 1900x1080 the scaling of the picture can produce lag, a lot of monitor have lag problems with no native resolutions.

Dude in you examples there is not a lot of sudden wheel movement, i have proved there is delay in the other vids and with pictures.
I notice it and when you do the test i say so will you.
As for my monitor it is native 1080p
Anyway it also lags on my Pioneer HDTV

Fact is it lags on all screens, but unless you look closely at video footage or turn the wheel fast you will not see it. But you can however feel through the wheel something is not quite in sync

 

[Zembla]

^Basically this is what we need, instead we have this:

Well... you're not speaking for me when you say that

I have LFS S2, and I've always found the hand placement poor and the 900 degree rotation of the wheel pretty much useless. When I'm driving I don't look at the wheel, I look at the road.

I much prefer GT5P's system of having 180°.

That said, I do believe input lag seriously depends on what kind of screen you use. Even then though, it's not like you cannot overcome it. In fact, in GT5P I've never noticed it. Seeing as it only now pops up, I wouldn't be too surprised to hear noone's really noticed it much before.

-Z

 

[Timppaq]

Timpaq that is not true. Do the test i said. I mean look at the front wheels while doing the test, stop making assumptions of video footage, it is a lot harder to see the difference with the vehicle than the wheel.

I go by feel, and that's enough for me. You know, it's not a real car, so the "wheels" showing under the "car" are kind of irrelevant. The wheel (animated one) just bugs me, as it's too much for my brains Would love to drive from incar view, but no way untill it's fixed..

 

[dancardesigner]

PEOPLE DO THE TEST I SAY AND THEN COMMENT

If you guys can not see it in the posted videos then all you can do is experiment at home. Turn the wheel fast and look at the delay.
The delay is on the whole screen not just the animated wheel. Look back at the car in external view and observe the wheels.

Also go down a straight and whip the wheel. Observe the car in external view

 

[Zer0]

As for my monitor it is native 1080

model?

 

[Timppaq]

I've been testing about >5000h, and so I qualify myself to say what I've said already. No noticeable input lag from wheel.

edit, ok maybe closer to >1000h

 

[dancardesigner]

model?

2408wfp

 

[Timppaq]

Also go down a straight and whip the wheel. Observe the car in external view

also, you should be doing the test in bumper view to be the most accurate.