Is Bombing Afghanistan a Bad Idea?
- Thread starter TAFJonathan
- 167 comments
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DeliveratorTitan
(Banned)
- 293
It's never a bad idea to bomb the Afghanies, the Taliban and Osama are abominable terrorists, they should be annihilated in the first place. Don't forget about the WTC twin towers demolished back last year, Osama's minions were the ones that kamikazied the two skyscrapers. WE SHOULD PUT AN END TO THEM IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!
- 543
aren't women children and old men capable to kill someon?
- 543
aren't women children and old men capable to kill someone?
- 543
aren't women children and old men capable of killing someone?
- 543
um, don't know what happened there, maybe a mod could erase one of those.....
- 1,324
Did Bush actually said anything about liberation of any sort, i thought he just wanted to kick the brown smelly stuff out of Osama and his boys? Didn't the American secretary (or someone of that order, maybe Powell?) say something like that? You know "we're going to have our revenge then get out"??? I'll see i f i can find a quote somewhere.
Anyway, seeing as Pakistan and India are squaring up to slug it out at the momnet it may not matter if Al Quida hide in Pakistan or not. There's a chance they're going to turn the entire region into a wasteland.
We're living in dangerous times my friends........
Front page, New York Times, June 16th.
"Classified investigations of the al-Qaeda threat now under way at the FBI and CIA have concluded that the war in Afghanistan failed to diminish the threat to the United States, the officials said. Instead, the war might have complicated counterterrorism efforts by dispersing potential attackers across a wider geographic area."
Gran Turismo7058
(Banned)
- 4,860
I totally Agree with this
- 1,324
Just won't work, it's a religeon. It's all over the world, in just about every country.
Bush did the right thing, he's gone in and kicked ass, shown that he can't be ****'d with. But now he should get out before he has another Vietnam on his hands. At the moment they're still disorganised over there. In six months to a year they'll be poisening the food and water, bombing supply trucks.....
Bush did the right thing, he's gone in and kicked ass, shown that he can't be ****'d with. But now he should get out before he has another Vietnam on his hands. At the moment they're still disorganised over there. In six months to a year they'll be poisening the food and water, bombing supply trucks.....
- 268
wow
this thread kicked off big time since I last posted.
where do we begin? Okay, well first off, I'm trying to be grown up, but I feel obliged to join in the 'my weiner is bigger than yours' debate and just say how the SAS (found in the UK and AUS) are widely acknowledged as being the utter bad@sses of special forces in the whole world and the Isrealis are probably not far behind.
What makes us good is that we are able to march into nasty places, cause untold damage to selected targets and then march out. We don't rely on helicopters and technology like SEALS and the rest of your boys. Neither do we call in airstrikes on our own allies like you guys at Mazzar e Sharif and the rest of it.
As for our big breaks? WW2 (the creation of special forces and then riding around the desert in pink land rovers causing much trouble in north Africa), Iranian Embassy Seige (all terrorists killed, no hostage fatalities), Falklands War (limited numbers cause mass carnage to Argentinian airfields and savage casualties amongst the enemy), Gulf War (Stormin Norman asked us to deal with the SCUD problem cos your SEALS and Delta failed. One team of 8 men is thought to have accounted for over 500 enemy dead and one guy from that team - Chris Ryan - evaded Iraqi forces for 400KM behind enemy lines for about a week with only a water canteen and a packet of biscuits). The SAS are the most professional, skillful and frankly the most deadly bunch of guys around. It's very difficult to 'rank' special forces, but most neutral sources would go for the boys from Hereford.
But. moooooooooooving swiftly on to the origional topic and all our thoughts about bombing Afghanistan. I still feel that there is way too much gung-ho reaction here and not enough rational thought. Yes we all agree that the WTC attack was savage, cowardly, barbaric and all that (though Klos has this mad idea that it was your own government = oddball
), but how we react to it is key. The Muslim world widely beleives that America acts in a terrorist manner - partly due to extremist propaganda in Muslim states and partly due to your blind support of Israel's brutality over the years. It is so importnat that you understand the fact that whoever blew themselves up to destroy the towers thought they were doing the right thing. For whatever reason there are thousands (millions?) of people around the world who believe your country is evil. By bombing indescriminatly in another Muslim country you just risk adding fuel to the fire.
For God's sake you bombed a wedding the other day. A ****ing wedding boys! Think about how much that erodes your moral high ground, think about how much that acts as a Taliban recruitment advert! These are the consequences of your actions and you have to bear them in mind.
Yes we must be seen to be strong, yes we need to track down and punish those who have hurt us, but THINK about what bombing means and how you are going to come out of this looking to the rest of the world.
As for the guys here saying, 'bomb all of Afghanistan' or 'bomb all Muslims' or even the guys who don't care if we bomb kids: well, you guys are pretty much lowering yourselves to their level and that sort of hatred breeds more hatred. If you ever wondered how the cycle of violence works then check out Israel some time: "they blew up my brothers in a terrorist attack, I will bomb their town and roll in with heavy tanks" leads to "they drove tanks into my town and blew up my house - I am prepared to die in order to kill them and protect my people" leads to "they atacked us again with terrorist attacks, we will never surrender, send in the tanks again" leads to... Are you getting the idea yet. In Israel I fear that it no longer matters who is 'in the right'. Both sides have so much innocent blood on their hands that the cycle of hatred and violence just goes on.
Now, you're still in the right, you're still the victim and you still have the support of most right-minded countries around the world, but if you continue to bomb countries and continue to hit weddings, Mosques and stuff then you will lose that support. It is important that you protect yourselves and attack those who would committ terrorist acts, but please think carefully about how you do it and thnk about the consequences of your actions.
Bombing is a blunt tool with obvious scope for errors. If you wish to succeed and maintain the moral high ground then you must be far more surgical in you use of force and also work MUCH harder to gain the favour of moderate arabs. Make the extremist voice such a minority that is cannot be heard. That's how you win the war on terror.
Okay, I'm getting off my high horse now, here endeth the lesson.
Peace
Oh and if anybody cares (that's you fallible boy), I am 25, I have studied Philosophy in both the UK and US, I have a BA honours degree in Ancient History and I am a student of military history, both Ancient and Modern. I read the papers, I watch the news and I even read books.
this thread kicked off big time since I last posted.
where do we begin? Okay, well first off, I'm trying to be grown up, but I feel obliged to join in the 'my weiner is bigger than yours' debate and just say how the SAS (found in the UK and AUS) are widely acknowledged as being the utter bad@sses of special forces in the whole world and the Isrealis are probably not far behind.
What makes us good is that we are able to march into nasty places, cause untold damage to selected targets and then march out. We don't rely on helicopters and technology like SEALS and the rest of your boys. Neither do we call in airstrikes on our own allies like you guys at Mazzar e Sharif and the rest of it.
As for our big breaks? WW2 (the creation of special forces and then riding around the desert in pink land rovers causing much trouble in north Africa), Iranian Embassy Seige (all terrorists killed, no hostage fatalities), Falklands War (limited numbers cause mass carnage to Argentinian airfields and savage casualties amongst the enemy), Gulf War (Stormin Norman asked us to deal with the SCUD problem cos your SEALS and Delta failed. One team of 8 men is thought to have accounted for over 500 enemy dead and one guy from that team - Chris Ryan - evaded Iraqi forces for 400KM behind enemy lines for about a week with only a water canteen and a packet of biscuits). The SAS are the most professional, skillful and frankly the most deadly bunch of guys around. It's very difficult to 'rank' special forces, but most neutral sources would go for the boys from Hereford.
But. moooooooooooving swiftly on to the origional topic and all our thoughts about bombing Afghanistan. I still feel that there is way too much gung-ho reaction here and not enough rational thought. Yes we all agree that the WTC attack was savage, cowardly, barbaric and all that (though Klos has this mad idea that it was your own government = oddball
), but how we react to it is key. The Muslim world widely beleives that America acts in a terrorist manner - partly due to extremist propaganda in Muslim states and partly due to your blind support of Israel's brutality over the years. It is so importnat that you understand the fact that whoever blew themselves up to destroy the towers thought they were doing the right thing. For whatever reason there are thousands (millions?) of people around the world who believe your country is evil. By bombing indescriminatly in another Muslim country you just risk adding fuel to the fire.For God's sake you bombed a wedding the other day. A ****ing wedding boys! Think about how much that erodes your moral high ground, think about how much that acts as a Taliban recruitment advert! These are the consequences of your actions and you have to bear them in mind.
Yes we must be seen to be strong, yes we need to track down and punish those who have hurt us, but THINK about what bombing means and how you are going to come out of this looking to the rest of the world.
As for the guys here saying, 'bomb all of Afghanistan' or 'bomb all Muslims' or even the guys who don't care if we bomb kids: well, you guys are pretty much lowering yourselves to their level and that sort of hatred breeds more hatred. If you ever wondered how the cycle of violence works then check out Israel some time: "they blew up my brothers in a terrorist attack, I will bomb their town and roll in with heavy tanks" leads to "they drove tanks into my town and blew up my house - I am prepared to die in order to kill them and protect my people" leads to "they atacked us again with terrorist attacks, we will never surrender, send in the tanks again" leads to... Are you getting the idea yet. In Israel I fear that it no longer matters who is 'in the right'. Both sides have so much innocent blood on their hands that the cycle of hatred and violence just goes on.
Now, you're still in the right, you're still the victim and you still have the support of most right-minded countries around the world, but if you continue to bomb countries and continue to hit weddings, Mosques and stuff then you will lose that support. It is important that you protect yourselves and attack those who would committ terrorist acts, but please think carefully about how you do it and thnk about the consequences of your actions.
Bombing is a blunt tool with obvious scope for errors. If you wish to succeed and maintain the moral high ground then you must be far more surgical in you use of force and also work MUCH harder to gain the favour of moderate arabs. Make the extremist voice such a minority that is cannot be heard. That's how you win the war on terror.
Okay, I'm getting off my high horse now, here endeth the lesson.
Peace
Oh and if anybody cares (that's you fallible boy), I am 25, I have studied Philosophy in both the UK and US, I have a BA honours degree in Ancient History and I am a student of military history, both Ancient and Modern. I read the papers, I watch the news and I even read books.
- 268
somebody out there restore my faith in intelligent debate and say something......anything
anyone? Beuller? anyone?
anyone? Beuller? anyone?
- 268
Problem is dude, those who would seek to incite hatred against your country will see absolutely no difference between your politicians, soldiers and civilians. As far as their concerned, it was 'you'.
Even to the moderates, there must be a certian amount of guilt by association. Those planes had big US flags on them - they act in your name and therefore you share their glory or shame.
The fact that this man lives in a country in which there is a campaign going on and that for some reason he deserves to be blamed is literally stupid.
Don't the Afghanis live in a country where there are groups opposed to the ruling party/power? What about Iraq, or Pakistan?
I think they should be able (are able) to see that some Americans do not like their leader.
Don't the Afghanis live in a country where there are groups opposed to the ruling party/power? What about Iraq, or Pakistan?
I think they should be able (are able) to see that some Americans do not like their leader.
Perhaps the people who said 'hell yes' might want to do some research into the nationalities of the people who apparently did this, and also do some research into the relationship between the US and Saudi Arabia, oil, and why democracy is apparently vitally important everywhere in the world, but it's apparently okay the Saudis aren't. The stench of hypocrisy is overwhelming, and the Howard Govt lap it up like the sickening lap dogs they are.
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