Is Bombing Afghanistan a Bad Idea?
- Thread starter TAFJonathan
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you Americans think your so smart.... well , i got a question for you... Why Can NOBODY stand americans except for americans?...
You guys are false if you truly believe that you are liked more than you are hated... and thats part of the problem right there... you think that you are great and that everyone likes you. Why do people of the U.S. half togo around and try to be the hero and stick there nose in others business.... do you think that the Taliban was completely unjust in these attacks?? if you do then your a fool... they believe that they have been wronged by America and felt like they had to do something back.
(oh boy, this will probably cause **** to fly!)
You guys are false if you truly believe that you are liked more than you are hated... and thats part of the problem right there... you think that you are great and that everyone likes you. Why do people of the U.S. half togo around and try to be the hero and stick there nose in others business.... do you think that the Taliban was completely unjust in these attacks?? if you do then your a fool... they believe that they have been wronged by America and felt like they had to do something back.
(oh boy, this will probably cause **** to fly!)
im with you.
Joey D
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- Lakes of the North, MI
- GTP_Joey
- GTP Joey
Ok nothing intended at Aussies here but I gotta defend my homeland. America is the best country in the world! We know a good part of the world hates us. But like the would say it cause ever time there is a war countries always turn to us for help. Most countries have debts to us cause we loan them money.
Anyway GO USA and GOD BLESS AMERICA.
Anyway GO USA and GOD BLESS AMERICA.
- 12,993
- USA! USA!
Nah, Australia is probably better. They do not get into anyone's business. I'm moving there after I finish college, hopefully.
- 12,993
- USA! USA!
Thank you for being stereotypical. I don't think I am smart, and I highly doubt no one likes Americans.
I only see the US government going into other's business, not Americans as a whole. No, the Taliban as not unjust in their attacks, if they are the ones who attacked.
- 10,081
- WFG9
The topic says it is about bombing in Afghanistan, yet from the last few posts it appears to be an America vs. everyone else debate. I do not have a set opinion about the actual topic, but the one it's changed into is interesting.
I do not know about other Americans, but I know damn well other nations do not like us. Many of you guys are not going to like this, but we do not think about you often, somewhat understandable since we affect you more economically and so on than you do us. And as far as I can tell, the reality seems to be that it is other nations that our more arrogant in their statements. Few Americans comment on Tony Blair's intelligence, or generally make fun of Europe to the extent that Europe does to us, but this is based on my experience (possibly selective memory).
The problem is that you guys honestly believe yourselves to be the intellectual and ethical superiors to us and have for years. Basically, one of the problems with leftists.
Understand this. You can say that since you live nearer to Iraq you will face repurcussions first. This point is valid. But since your focus is less on military build up, and if your pacifists have enough power there may not even be so much as a sanction in place if the US ever withdraws the one it has in place (nothing pleases a pacifist), because you tend to focus on social issues, many of you lean socialist, you less likely to be able to stop an attack by Iraq, and we, as a target of Saddam, will have to contend with him and whatever power he gains from conquering you. I am sure there are counter arguments. And I know that I probably made errors, only meant to show one laymen perspective. But the really aggravating thing is that you guys seem to believe you have a lock on logic and strategy. And whatever else.
I do not know about other Americans, but I know damn well other nations do not like us. Many of you guys are not going to like this, but we do not think about you often, somewhat understandable since we affect you more economically and so on than you do us. And as far as I can tell, the reality seems to be that it is other nations that our more arrogant in their statements. Few Americans comment on Tony Blair's intelligence, or generally make fun of Europe to the extent that Europe does to us, but this is based on my experience (possibly selective memory).
The problem is that you guys honestly believe yourselves to be the intellectual and ethical superiors to us and have for years. Basically, one of the problems with leftists.
Understand this. You can say that since you live nearer to Iraq you will face repurcussions first. This point is valid. But since your focus is less on military build up, and if your pacifists have enough power there may not even be so much as a sanction in place if the US ever withdraws the one it has in place (nothing pleases a pacifist), because you tend to focus on social issues, many of you lean socialist, you less likely to be able to stop an attack by Iraq, and we, as a target of Saddam, will have to contend with him and whatever power he gains from conquering you. I am sure there are counter arguments. And I know that I probably made errors, only meant to show one laymen perspective. But the really aggravating thing is that you guys seem to believe you have a lock on logic and strategy. And whatever else.
- 10,081
- WFG9
Heck, your rightists think they're better.
- 10,081
- WFG9
Foreskin, does a dislike of America prove America wrong?
Okay - now that there seem to be two threads intent on bashing the US, let's just see if we can list some basic facts here, and then maybe we can call a cease to hostilities.
Note when I use the term US I generally refer to the government, and not to individual citizens.
Here goes:
- each year, the US is responsible for 30% of the world's oil consumption.
- US domestic oil production has, as a proportion of US annual oil consumption, fallen steadily over the last few years
- the US has assisted the Saudi Arabia royal family maintain their control of Saudi Arabi, one of the world's largest oil producers (and supplies around 18% of US oil imports)
- Saudi (and indeed Muslim) unrest over the US military presence has steadily increased since US troop numbers in the region increased markedly during and after the Gulf War
- Osama Bin Laden is Saudi Arabian, and much of his hatred of western societies is based on the presence of US troops in Saudi Arabia (and other Islamic nations)
- much extremist (and indeed some moderate) Islamic anger remains over the Gulf War
- - much extremist (and indeed some moderate) Islamic anger is simmering over Israel's war with the Palestinians, a war that with some interruptions has been going on for many years
- the US is seen globally as Israel's main supporter
- around 3000 innocent people died in the September 11 attacks
- over 3000 innocent people died in Allied bombing of Afghanistan
- a lot of 'guilty' people died in Allied bombing of Afghanistan
- the Taliban was not elected by the Afghani people. With support from the Pakistani secret service they filled a power vacuum after the Soviet invasion
- the US provided weapons and advice support to the tribes (including the Taliban) during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
- Afghanistan is one of the poorest nations on earth
- Osama Bin Laden is a very wealthy man, and has access to large cash flows through his Al Qaeda network
- the US (or more specifically GWB) is currently being perceived as pushing for military action against Iraq
- Europe, Britain, and various other allies, whilst supportive of the US in the immediate wake of the September 11 attacks, are very loath to attack Iraq without positive proof of their involvement in the attacks
- there is a growing sentiment against 'globalisation' and in many countries outside the US 'globalisation' is a synonym for 'amercanisation. Perception of the US looking to engage in further conflicts with Iraq (and the language of GBW is certainly not assisting with this) is further aggravating this sentiment
So, people, this is not a simple issue. I personally think that US involvement in the middle eastern region to protect its oil interests is ultimately the factor that lies behind the anti-US sentiment that led to the extremism that gave birth to Al Qaeda and ultimately the September 11 attacks (note I did not say 'fault', 'blame' or make any judgements). I am not defending the attacks in any way, shape or form (I think they rate as one of the great outrages of the past century), nor intending to imply that the US is to blame for the attacks.
Note when I use the term US I generally refer to the government, and not to individual citizens.
Here goes:
- each year, the US is responsible for 30% of the world's oil consumption.
- US domestic oil production has, as a proportion of US annual oil consumption, fallen steadily over the last few years
- the US has assisted the Saudi Arabia royal family maintain their control of Saudi Arabi, one of the world's largest oil producers (and supplies around 18% of US oil imports)
- Saudi (and indeed Muslim) unrest over the US military presence has steadily increased since US troop numbers in the region increased markedly during and after the Gulf War
- Osama Bin Laden is Saudi Arabian, and much of his hatred of western societies is based on the presence of US troops in Saudi Arabia (and other Islamic nations)
- much extremist (and indeed some moderate) Islamic anger remains over the Gulf War
- - much extremist (and indeed some moderate) Islamic anger is simmering over Israel's war with the Palestinians, a war that with some interruptions has been going on for many years
- the US is seen globally as Israel's main supporter
- around 3000 innocent people died in the September 11 attacks
- over 3000 innocent people died in Allied bombing of Afghanistan
- a lot of 'guilty' people died in Allied bombing of Afghanistan
- the Taliban was not elected by the Afghani people. With support from the Pakistani secret service they filled a power vacuum after the Soviet invasion
- the US provided weapons and advice support to the tribes (including the Taliban) during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan
- Afghanistan is one of the poorest nations on earth
- Osama Bin Laden is a very wealthy man, and has access to large cash flows through his Al Qaeda network
- the US (or more specifically GWB) is currently being perceived as pushing for military action against Iraq
- Europe, Britain, and various other allies, whilst supportive of the US in the immediate wake of the September 11 attacks, are very loath to attack Iraq without positive proof of their involvement in the attacks
- there is a growing sentiment against 'globalisation' and in many countries outside the US 'globalisation' is a synonym for 'amercanisation. Perception of the US looking to engage in further conflicts with Iraq (and the language of GBW is certainly not assisting with this) is further aggravating this sentiment
So, people, this is not a simple issue. I personally think that US involvement in the middle eastern region to protect its oil interests is ultimately the factor that lies behind the anti-US sentiment that led to the extremism that gave birth to Al Qaeda and ultimately the September 11 attacks (note I did not say 'fault', 'blame' or make any judgements). I am not defending the attacks in any way, shape or form (I think they rate as one of the great outrages of the past century), nor intending to imply that the US is to blame for the attacks.
- 543
Why shouldn't americans protect their oil interests in the middle east. OPEC has screwwed america in the last couple of years.
Why does everyone dislike America? Because we get into everyone's buisness? Are you for real? That is the reason why other nations dislike America?
If that's the case, that helping people is actually hurting them, humanity has gone down the drain. There is a very interesting news article written by a Canadian that I wish I had, I'd post it here. It pretty much sums up the effects of what Americas involvment has done to for/against the world.
actually i'm going to go look for it now
kind of funny how this whole thing turned into nationalism
Why does everyone dislike America? Because we get into everyone's buisness? Are you for real? That is the reason why other nations dislike America?
If that's the case, that helping people is actually hurting them, humanity has gone down the drain. There is a very interesting news article written by a Canadian that I wish I had, I'd post it here. It pretty much sums up the effects of what Americas involvment has done to for/against the world.
actually i'm going to go look for it now
kind of funny how this whole thing turned into nationalism
- 543
here I found it, I think everyone should read this, and no I will not defend or comment on anything that this article says, considering the fact that I did NOT say this, a News Reporter from Canada did.....
"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.
When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there....I saw it!
When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.
The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, war-mongering Americans.
I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplanes. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon?
You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - not once, but several times - and safely home again.
You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.
When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.
I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.
Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."
there
"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.
When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there....I saw it!
When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.
The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, war-mongering Americans.
I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplanes. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon?
You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - not once, but several times - and safely home again.
You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.
When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.
I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.
Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."
there
- 543
oh and vat, a lot more then 3000 there, try like 5000. 3000 died in the trade center alone.
- 543
America reminds me of a childs book called. "The Giving Tree"
How dare you people sit back and bad mouth America. Where the hell is your country when a catastrophe happens in the world? Because I can tell you where mine is! Chances are whatever country you are in right now is under the aide or has been under the aide of the United States of America in some way or other, whether it be the direct response to first hand aide, or the help through a treaty that the US has passed in the UN.
How dare you people sit back and bad mouth America. Where the hell is your country when a catastrophe happens in the world? Because I can tell you where mine is! Chances are whatever country you are in right now is under the aide or has been under the aide of the United States of America in some way or other, whether it be the direct response to first hand aide, or the help through a treaty that the US has passed in the UN.
- 543
So let's stop this World vs America bull**** and get back to the topic
- 1,324
Here here!
Let's knock the in fighting on the head for a while?
The thread is "is bombing Afganistan a good idea?"
Well, right now, I reckon we (the coalition forces) just all ought to stop slinging heavy ordanance around, let the special forces and Marines have their fun. And, on behalf of the Brits i'd like to thank you Yanks for having thought up the idea of the AC-130 and sending one over to bail out our marines the other day.
Cheers
Slip
Let's knock the in fighting on the head for a while?
The thread is "is bombing Afganistan a good idea?"
Well, right now, I reckon we (the coalition forces) just all ought to stop slinging heavy ordanance around, let the special forces and Marines have their fun. And, on behalf of the Brits i'd like to thank you Yanks for having thought up the idea of the AC-130 and sending one over to bail out our marines the other day.
Cheers
Slip
- 543
i couldn't agree with you more slip
- 10,081
- WFG9
Britain is said to have some of the finest special forces there is, along with Israel. Something to be proud of, I say.
- 12,993
- USA! USA!
Australia has the best solo army I think.
- 10,081
- WFG9
Never heard that. Though we all know the Aussies are a tough lot.
- 543
What makes special forces good or not?
What big breaks have the aussies and brit special forces turned out?
What big breaks have the aussies and brit special forces turned out?
Probably is. But the British special forces I know are in Afghanistan right now. And plus I've got a British Special Forces screensaver. So they've got to be good.- 543
lol
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