Is GT Sport Actually GT7? Kaz Himself Responds (Video)

[FoRiZon]

@7HO You probably better off referencing Forza 6 Apex though and see how its popular, considering its also a F2P game with much more genre relevancy.

Also Steam has large gaming enviroment enough to cover almost all of anything PC gaming.

 

[jm79]

Will be interesting to see how the credit system works in this game, afaik there has been no info on that.
Also, honestly, what is stopping them adding offline content via free DLC every month? Then keeping cars/tracks as paid DLC?

Wouldn't that maintain interest and keep the GT7 crew happy? I think the ideas of traditional GT and this new 'Driveclub' style game-as-a-service model aren't as incompatible as people may think...

 

[7HO]

Comparing GTS to LoL makes no sense... I'm pretty sure that the development cost of a game like GT is much much much higher than a game like that. The entire PD could be at risk if they developed a F2P GT, unless they developed an half-assed/basic game.

About the topic: Oh boy, a lot of people will be mad when they find out that there may not be a "normal" GT after GTS... They just gave lots of their fans to Forza.

Originally it wasn't about comparison, it was simply a response to someone saying they didn't know of any games that generated income primarily from DLC to show them there are big games that do.

The problem is the same people who originally said I was wrong on the very subject this thread has confirmed I was right about want to stir up drama again. The conversation about DOTA2 and similar should be over now because it is off topic but some people just want to keep fighting.

Free to play games are not relevant anyway other than to point out that continued income can be generated from content. GTS isn't a free to play game, you pay for it initially but it could potentially be supported in the future with paid DLC instead of bringing out sequels. I doubt PDI will go down that route but the option is there and it can be viable as others have proven but beyond that there is no point in continuing discussion on these titles.

Yes you have:

It hasn't "been surviving since 2007 just selling hats," because it wasn't free to play until four years after it launched and was already extremely popular as a retail title. It's certainly something that Sony could probably try with GT Sport if they handle it a bit less ham-fisted than they have tried in the past, but it's not the same thing as DOTA or LoL.


It isn't an example of a free to play game that "made money out of the gate". "Right out of the gate" in TF2's case either means the original launch date in 2007, where they made money on it because it still cost money to buy; or 2011 where they made money on it because when they made it free to play it already had a huge playerbase to expand from with microtransactions.

My mistake, I wasn't actually aware that TF2 wasn't F2P from the start but DOTA2 still stands right? So my mistake doesn't actually change the outcome. Instead you are desperate to find fault and overblow it because this thread is a sore point, with me being right after you guys attacked me when I said Kaz was saying exactly what he has repeated in this video. How many pages did you guys attack me over the GT7 argument again?

 

[Neomone]

Right now Forza 6 Apex has no wheel support on PC, and while there was the usual Forza-Horizon-3-on-PC-with-motion-platform-and-wheel demo at E3, there are no guarantees that they will release with wheel support in the final game.

To be fair, Apex is still in open beta and Turn 10 have explicitly said that they will put wheel support into it. If Apex gets wheel support, I think FH3 having it is a fair assumption until we hear otherwise.

Certainly they intend to have it, and if it won't be there you'll in all likelihood hear about it before release. We knew about Apex not having wheel support before it was released, and that was a free beta tech demo.

 

[MtorWorldHype]

FH3 will need to actually have wheel support on the PC before it could really take over for most of us...

Right now Forza 6 Apex has no wheel support on PC, and while there was the usual Forza-Horizon-3-on-PC-with-motion-platform-and-wheel demo at E3, there are no guarantees that they will release with wheel support in the final game.

Actually Forza Horizon 3 will have wheel support on PC but it will not be "universal" wheel support. They will announce compatible wheels at a later date.

 

[7HO]

@7HO You probably better off referencing Forza 6 Apex though and see how its popular, considering its also a F2P game with much more genre relevancy.

Also Steam has large gaming enviroment enough to cover almost all of anything PC gaming.

It's a beta, I'm not aware of any data about it. I actually didn't even think about it as a F2P game, I thought it was free as a promotional tool to get people to install Windows 10. But I also can't consider anything about it until it is actually playable with at least a controller.

Will be interesting to see how the credit system works in this game, afaik there has been no info on that.
Also, honestly, what is stopping them adding offline content via free DLC every month? Then keeping cars/tracks as paid DLC?

Wouldn't that maintain interest and keep the GT7 crew happy? I think the ideas of traditional GT and this new 'Driveclub' style game-as-a-service model aren't as incompatible as people may think...

The credit system is something that has worried me. I really can't understand the inclusion of it in this game so I'm looking forward to Kaz explaining how it will work.

 

[Tornado]

but DOTA2 still stands right?

That would certainly be why I repeatedly did not say you were wrong about DOTA2, yes.

Instead you are desperate to find fault and overblow it because this thread is a sore point, with me being right after you guys attacked me when I said Kaz was saying exactly what he has repeated in this video.

Or, maybe, just maybe, I take issue with things you say that I think are incorrect and will comment on them as such.

Though, of course, you are perfectly free to spin you claiming someone correcting you on something that you repeatedly insisted was true even after you were told otherwise as all being part of the secret cabal this forum has in place to get you down.

 

[dacc10]

Will be interesting to see how the credit system works in this game, afaik there has been no info on that.
Also, honestly, what is stopping them adding offline content via free DLC every month? Then keeping cars/tracks as paid DLC?

Wouldn't that maintain interest and keep the GT7 crew happy? I think the ideas of traditional GT and this new 'Driveclub' style game-as-a-service model aren't as incompatible as people may think...

The only problem with a game like that, is that there are a lot of Ifs. For those who already have intention to buy the game as it is, it wouldn't matter. But lots of people would buy it, expecting somethin that is uncertain. Remember all those "promises" from GT6 and the war it started when those promised features were delayed. Now imagine if the same ends up happening? People buying the game because of the new content and the content supposed to be added through the game's life cicle, and then that content doesn't come, or what comes is not much?

In theory, that would be a good system, but only if they could keep the content coming. If not, it will be just like GT6's promised features.

 

[Mike_grpA]

Racing isn't exactly unpopular, Gran Turismo sales have been massive in the past. I don't doubt if they wanted to go down that path they could also be successful but I do agree with you, I also think we will see another game come out in the future. I was just pointing out that there are games that survive off just DLC and they are very successful as Johnny said he didn't know of any.

To be fair, racing games, even GT, are not in the same universe as the type of games you mentioned when it comes to popularity. The best selling GT game, GT3, sold 14.9m copies on a console which sold 155m units.

The last GT game, GT6, sold less than 5m copies on a console which sold 84m units.

So considering this next title won't have the mass market appeal of the older GTs (their huge car and track lists, and massive offline career modes were a big selling point to casuals), how many copies do you expect GTS to sell on a system that has somewhere over 40m units sold?

*For reference, around 27m people play LoL per day. Racing games are in no way comparable to that kind of popularity. Especially racing sims.

 

[skazz]

Actually Forza Horizon 3 will have wheel support on PC but it will not be "universal" wheel support. They will announce compatible wheels at a later date.

I saw "rumors" on that, but do you have an actual link to the confirmed supported wheels?
Are we talking just the G920, Thrustmaster TMX/TX and CSWv2+Xbox rim, or more?

(All Thrustmaster PC wheels use the same drivers, so if they leverage standard PC drivers then supporting the TX would give all Thrustmaster owners working wheels. But if UWP doesn't do that, it would be more difficult)

To be fair, Apex is still in open beta and Turn 10 have explicitly said that they will put wheel support into it. If Apex gets wheel support, I think FH3 having it is a fair assumption until we hear otherwise.

Certainly they intend to have it, and if it won't be there you'll in all likelihood hear about it before release. We knew about Apex not having wheel support before it was released, and that was a free beta tech demo.

Well they have not confirmed Apex wheel support, there were just a few tweets stating their desire. I know they want to deliver wheel support, and want it to be broader than just Xbox One supported wheels, but until there's a firm release date....

 

[7HO]

Or, maybe, just maybe, I take issue with things you say that I think are incorrect and will comment on them as such.

Though, of course, you are perfectly free to spin you claiming someone correcting you on something that you repeatedly insisted was true even after you were told otherwise as all being part of the secret cabal this forum has in place to get you down.

Considering how many times you have taken issue with me and this is the first verified time you have been correct and considering this very thread proves I was right about something you guys took issue with I don't think I'm spinning anything and i think perhaps it might be time for you to reconsider taking issue with everything I say.

 

[jm79]

To be fair, racing games, even GT, are not in the same universe as the type of games you mentioned when it comes to popularity. The best selling GT game, GT3, sold 14.9m copies on a console which sold 155m units.

The last GT game, GT6, sold less than 5m copies on a console which sold 84m units.

So considering this next title won't have the mass market appeal of the older GTs (their huge car and track lists, and massive offline career modes were a big selling point to casuals), how many copies do you expect GTS to sell on a system that has somewhere over 40m units sold?

All these are very good points, but I'm starting to question both the notion of what appeals to casuals (car and track number, massive offline career - I mean, do we actually know that? Could that be more of a GTP-created idea...?) and also the concept of casuals itself.

I'm pretty 'casual' (only joined GTP after the initial GTS trailer dropped) and the grind and all the bloody cars and endless options, menu screens that were piling up on previous GT's did not appeal to me at all. What I did care about was the visuals, and the handling - if it can get the 'feel' of driving a car right...

If PD seem to be concentrating on that rather than masses of content, then I'm all for it, and to assume that other 'casuals' would hate that approach, by default, seems unwise.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Well, Forza is now on PC, so I will get my car collecting fix from that.
GT Sport will be a neat game, but looks like it won't be able to consider it my favourite franchise anymore.

In GT's defence, they're launching in the 'off' year for Motorsport. FH3 isn't a sim-style game – Greenawalt said in an interview that the basic physics engine is the same, but every surface is given more grip – so even with its massive car count, some players just won't be drawn to an open-world game.

PD will have about 10-11 months to address this general concern that some in the community have, before FM7 launches. At least, provided T10 stick to the current two-year plan: there's been rumours of the Motorsport series going to a three year schedule, but with Scorpio arriving in autumn next year, it seems like an ideal time to launch a new Forza.

If FM6 is anything to go by, the next Motorsport will be launching with over 600 cars. If they follow on from the expansion packs' improved careers (the Porsche and NASCAR ones were far better-designed than the vanilla game's, IMO), it really will provide a lot of what people are looking for in terms of a traditional GT experience.

 

[7HO]

To be fair, racing games, even GT, are not in the same universe as the type of games you mentioned when it comes to popularity. The best selling GT game, GT3, sold 14.9m copies on a console which sold 155m units.

The last GT game, GT6, sold less than 5m copies on a console which sold 84m units.

So considering this next title won't have the mass market appeal of the older GTs (their huge car and track lists, and massive offline career modes were a big selling point to casuals), how many copies do you expect GTS to sell on a system that has somewhere over 40m units sold?

*For reference, around 27m people play LoL per day. Racing games are in no way comparable to that kind of popularity. Especially racing sims.

That is such a complicated question you have asked because GTS is so different. I think over the life of the game if PDI released GT7 as fans anticipated it would have sold better than GT6 but they didn't. To be honest I have no idea what to expect from GTS sales and I really wouldn't be surprised if it only sold between 1-2 million. I think with the hype it has been getting recently it could sell very well though and I really have no idea how well this type of game will sell. I'd like it to be the biggest thing ever but I have no idea.

My point was simply that racing isn't unpopular and how well this title does will really be determined by how well it is made and how enjoyable it is. I wouldn't want to be in PDI shoes because they have no doubt had so many hard decisions to make and anyone of those could be the wrong decision that results in a flop. I do really believe though that with the right balance this could be really well recieved and could be huge and just based on some of the E3 impressions I think at the moment it is looking positive.

All these are very good points, but I'm starting to question both the notion of what appeals to casuals (car and track number, massive offline career - I mean, do we actually know that? Could that be more of a GTP-created idea...?) and also the concept of casuals itself.

I'm pretty 'casual' (only joined GTP after the initial GTS trailer dropped) and the grind and all the bloody cars and endless options, menu screens that were piling up on previous GT's did not appeal to me at all. What I did care about was the visuals, and the handling - if it can get the 'feel' of driving a car right...

If PD seem to be concentrating on that rather than masses of content, then I'm all for it, and to assume that other 'casuals' would hate that approach, by default, seems unwise.

This is something I strongly agree with and above when I mentioned those E3 impressions it seemed to me that there are casuals out there who agree with this.

It is one of those reasons I mentioned in the general thread that I talked about the things people can do in this game because I'm surprised some people don't think it will be fun.

You see to me being able to drive exotics in a realistic sim any way I want is my idea of fun. Being able to race against other people, or have a track day, or drift, or drag race, or just have a bit of a powerplay. Those things are my idea of having fun, that is the type of stuff I dream about, I'm surprised there are so many people who don't think that stuff is fun and only want a game with a half implemented story.

And that's the other side of it for me, because to me the implementation of the offline career in the past has been pathetic, not a fun game at all. To me GT was all about enjoying the cars except it got to the point that others were more enjoyable to drive so GT was no longer much fun at anything compared to others. As far as a racing game goes I'd prefer the more life like way or a proper game or a proper story mode. But I doubt I'd play a game because I really just want to create my own story and enjoy simulated cars so I think GTS will be a lot of fun.

 

[Johnnypenso]

No I have worked out that you go out of your way with certain members, I'm not the only person who has expressed an issue with you am I?

I've decided to put you on ignore and I'm just letting you know so you understand why I am not responding to your harassment in future.

Thanks for the heads up:tup: I'll still be asking for sources where appropriate and still responding if the fancy hits me.

 

[nocturnalgrey]

If I am not responding to a statement you made it is because I agree with it or have nothing else to add.

But yes I care about things like the tire model and aerodynamics. These are critical in driving realistically because tires are the most important component on a car and aerodynamics is also key to the dynamics of a vehicle. From watching that video I do not feel like Kaz is saying they have made GTS gamey and sacrificed realism in these areas. The way I interpret his statements is that sims which claim to be real but are too hard to drive are not realistic, what I see him claiming is that GTS is more realistic than those and I'm looking forward to test such claims.

Clearly this is a big gamble for PDI, it isn't what people typically use a console for and clearly this is less of a game than past GT's which might initially seem like an bad move by many people. It is a decisive move toward being considered more sim and less simcade and who knows, after this is released it might completely shake the simcade perception and be widely accepted by hardcore sim racers as a real sim, again this might seem like a mistake to the majority. But I think if a Sim is realistic and accessible it can be big. We will all see soon enough if the gamble pays off and I really can't predict if it will because there are so many unknowns, so many decisions PDI would have had to make during the build that could potentially turn people off.

But see, I seriously doubt many people are looking for a game that is 100% accurate in those regards. If the tire model and aero is spot on or maybe even a degree or two off, who is going to notice? The very small percentage of internet users and/or PC sim players? It's why I originally said that it is best for a racing game to offer perceived realism if it has any hopes of high sales. Look at PCars for example... all we know is that the moved 1 million units across three platforms. That's nowhere near GT6's 5+ million.

Agree 100%! GTS is a huge gamble, but I think it's a smart one. People know of Gran Turismo. People know of online gameplay. What people may not be aware of is the FIA and it's rule set. Sure, the awareness may be higher in in Europe for example, but here in the US, auto racing is small potatoes when compared to the NFL and NBA. If, and I mean if, this whole system that has been put in place with GTS online works well, I know that I may spend more time racing against others then I ever have. I am genuinely excited.

As far as turning people off goes, I believe the majority of people won't be affected by the decisions of PDI and GTS this time around. It's the first Gran Turismo on the PS4. First GT with a livery editor and as I just read this morning, the first GT with interior photo shooting.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

To be fair, from what I've seen here most positive claims are questioned, while most negative claims go unchallenged.

The imbalance to me is quite striking.
So it doesn't surprise when some re-act in this fashion.

 

[Pfei]

To those lamenting the loss of car collecting, tuning and career grinding, you have a legitimate complaint. PD is definitely alienating a sizable chunk of the user base. I am happy to see it all go and focus on real racing, but I also understand how those who prefer 1000 cars and career progression are angry at the loss.

I think if PD were smart, they would add in the future a single-player addon with a big offline career mode, complete with its own trophy list. There are too many GT'ers out there who will leave the franchise because of this radical about-face in focus by Kaz.

For me, it's shaping up to what I always wanted GT to be. For others, it's shaping up to be a forgettable title. The word "betrayal" is probably appropriate.

Undoing 20 years of collecting and grinding was likely not taken lightly when Kaz decided to go this route.

With online gaming more and more popular, I think it's time for most games to completely separate online from offline, with their own trophy sets. And SONY should get tough with devs making sure that both modes are complete games. There are way too many titles out there with real half-assed online modes, and the worst offenders are the ones that have a trophy or two that is unattainable because no-one plays the game online.

We'll see what comes out of this, but I do feel for you single-player GT fans.

 

[dacc10]

All these are very good points, but I'm starting to question both the notion of what appeals to casuals (car and track number, massive offline career - I mean, do we actually know that? Could that be more of a GTP-created idea...?) and also the concept of casuals itself.

I'm pretty 'casual' (only joined GTP after the initial GTS trailer dropped) and the grind and all the bloody cars and endless options, menu screens that were piling up on previous GT's did not appeal to me at all. What I did care about was the visuals, and the handling - if it can get the 'feel' of driving a car right...

If PD seem to be concentrating on that rather than masses of content, then I'm all for it, and to assume that other 'casuals' would hate that approach, by default, seems unwise.

Well, the casuals could be split in two ways. The new casual gamer (usually kids and young people in general), and the old casual gamer.

The new casual gamer, cares about graphics a lot. For casuals, physics don't matter much (for some, NFS physics are more realistic somehow). For them, matters the most what's newer, shiny and mainstream. Call the game Call of Duty, add a GT-R and a Koenigsegg, with Nicki Minaj's ass livery and as exhaust sound the song Work, and it will automatically sell. A bit of an exhaggeration, I know, but you get the point. So, GT needs to fulfill that audience that wants what's mainstream and shiny.

Then the old casual, who wants to relive the past, the nostalgia and all that. Wants the game to be a progression of the past iterations, ton of content just like the old games. Still want big enough offline modes.

And then, inside and outside these casuals, there is also audience with cultural differences and who seek different aspects from the game. For example, North Americans will want Nascar, Muscle cars, etc. Europeans want sport saloons, hot hatchbacks, classic Ferraris, etc. Japanese players want lot's of drift related content, tuning, Japanese cars and Key cars. Australians want V8 supercars, their sports cars (Holdens, FPVs, etc). Well, you get the point. Even between different regions/countrys/cultures, the needs differ a lot. The moment they neglect some of these things that all these people from different regions of the world want, they risk to lose some of their fan base and/or market.

Older GTs did this very well, somehow managed to give all these type of gamers what they want. Now, with GTS, doesn't look like it will be able to do that.

 

[Johnnypenso]

It's not an odd choice to want to spearhead the console movement to e-sports but I do find it odd that they chose to do so while ignoring the traditional aspects of prior GT games. If you think about it, making an offline career in GTSport would be easier than ever because the cars are already balanced and you can race within defined classes. It would be a smaller, tighter career most likely but it would be a bone to throw to those that want that type of game mechanic. Creating a career mode has to be one of the easiest aspects of game design I would think and especially so given the much smaller car list.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

It's not an odd choice to want to spearhead the console movement to e-sports but I do find it odd that they chose to do so while ignoring the traditional aspects of prior GT games. If you think about it, making an offline career in GTSport would be easier than ever because the cars are already balanced and you can race within defined classes. It would be a smaller, tighter career most likely but it would be a bone to throw to those that want that type of game mechanic. Creating a career mode has to be one of the easiest aspects of game design I would think and especially so given the much smaller car list.

I tend to agree, although I see the smaller car list as more a hindrance than a help.
I'm not sure how far they could get with 4 classes.
And limited numbers of FF's, MR's, etc.
Although it could be stretched with N200, N300, etc.

Still, almost any effort towards a traditional 'Career' mode would have been a valuable addition to my mind.
Perhaps they were looking to cut-off the complaints of having such a shortened version, that they decided leaving it out all together was the better option.

 

[Samus]

If you want to know what the mass market wants from a racing game, in general, look at NFS. That is as close as you'll get to the Call of Duty of racing games.

A large part of the mass market are not interested in "realistic" driving at all. You will see many messages online saying something of the sort, they want to have "fun" driving, with action and excitement plastered in front of them and see games like GT and Forza as dull, boring, whatever. Burnout, arcade titles like that is what they want. That is where a lot of racing game sales go and of course this demographic has never been interested in any GT, for that reason.

Then you have the next demographic, those who do want something more grounded in reality but they don't care about slip angles, tyre wear, aero balance, they don't care about thousands of cars they've never heard of. They just want to drive the cars they see on Top Gear and on fronts of magazines and have a bit of fun with a structured game. They'll probably want to buy one or two racing games per console cycle, or just one every couple of years. It's not their favourite genre but they always want to have some of them. Their usual choice is therefore natural on the Playstation divide, and has been for a long time. Gran Turismo. They get into the popular cars they know, they have fun tuning them up and they go out and race them in semi-realistic events. They don't use many cars, they don't do endurance races, they just stick to the core of the game and then move onto another game, until the next one.

This is the demographic GTS is at risk of alienating or losing. It all depends on how they are going to take to the online transitition and if they'll think they get enough out of it. They're definitely not going to be interested in FIA championships and licenses, they still just want to get into a GTR or Ferrari and have some races for fun. Those who do play online are probabyl still going to play it and get what they want out of it. Those who don't, and who want a traditional single player progression career are not. The question is of course, where that balances out.

The petrolheads who are into slip angles and tyre wear and know about random 80s cars and engine codes aren't going anywhere. They will buy nearly every racing game on their system, GTS obviously no exception. It's the millions (AND THE MILLIONS) of Top Gear viewing, Supercar loving casual driving game fan that is going to make or break GTS, IMO. Just as I'm reasonably sure it was losing a large chunk of that demographic that lost GT6 sales. They saw no value in it.

 

[jm79]

Again though, these 'casual' assumptions seem to be very personally defined, and with no real @Johnnypenso style 'sources' (kidding bro!)

Plus the videogame industry is gargantuan in terms of spread and appeal, and moves so crazily fast.
I'd suggest that this casuals vs hardcore thing is an irrelevant concept and has been for some time.

Anything with a clear pitch and an expensive marketing campaign will get traction and sales.

 

[MtorWorldHype]

I saw "rumors" on that, but do you have an actual link to the confirmed supported wheels?
Are we talking just the G920, Thrustmaster TMX/TX and CSWv2+Xbox rim, or more?

Just like we were invited to the GT Sport event we were also invited to a special closed doors presentation for Forza Horizon 3 with developers as well but we were not allowed to film. Anyway there was a short Q & A at the end and someone asked about wheel support for the PC and the answer was that there would be wheel support but they are still working on what wheels would be compatible. Once that was worked out it would be announced.

 

[7HO]

If I am not responding to a statement you made it is because I agree with it or have nothing else to add.



But see, I seriously doubt many people are looking for a game that is 100% accurate in those regards. If the tire model and aero is spot on or maybe even a degree or two off, who is going to notice? The very small percentage of internet users and/or PC sim players? It's why I originally said that it is best for a racing game to offer perceived realism if it has any hopes of high sales. Look at PCars for example... all we know is that the moved 1 million units across three platforms. That's nowhere near GT6's 5+ million.

Agree 100%! GTS is a huge gamble, but I think it's a smart one. People know of Gran Turismo. People know of online gameplay. What people may not be aware of is the FIA and it's rule set. Sure, the awareness may be higher in in Europe for example, but here in the US, auto racing is small potatoes when compared to the NFL and NBA. If, and I mean if, this whole system that has been put in place with GTS online works well, I know that I may spend more time racing against others then I ever have. I am genuinely excited.

As far as turning people off goes, I believe the majority of people won't be affected by the decisions of PDI and GTS this time around. It's the first Gran Turismo on the PS4. First GT with a livery editor and as I just read this morning, the first GT with interior photo shooting.

I think we are agreeing more than disagreeing. What I am really getting at is the result is realistic, the driving experience and i think you agree with that. But I also believe you can't get at that result with a tyre model or an aero model that is unrealistic. My argument for years has been that I don't care if physics are simplified if the result is a realistic driving experience and that case would be preferable to a physics model that tries to be exact but the result is a less realistic driving experience. The fact is I have no idea what is going on behind the scenes in the sim and all I care about is that the dynamics are right and when I change tyre pressures or suspension settings or wing that the result is realistic. Because in real life it might be easy to drive at the speed limit but finding and driving at the limit is a different matter and balancing the car as the weight transitions, driving the car as if it were an extension of your body as if you are one with it and not even thinking about that dance you do on the pedals as you manage weight transfer and maximise the grip you have, these things are practised skills. Then there is tyre management. Again with GT3, in real life those guys can run an hour stint on a set but I've seen them say if they abuse the tyres they can destroy a set in just a few laps. These are the reasons it is important to model these things accurately. And that is what I am hearing Kaz say, I think they are trying to build the most realistic sim they can.

I didn't think racing was small in the US. NASCAR and IndyCar being the big ones and then you have all these great forms of racing that all seem popular and you also have some of the best race tracks in the world. Drag racing is also huge there.

I really hope GTS is a success but I wish i could share your optimism, I hope it will be popular but I just can't predict it.

 

[GTchicken]

Polyphony just did a Windows 8 and a New Coke. They took something that worked for such a long time, and dumped it on it's head.

 

[7HO]

A large part of the mass market are not interested in "realistic" driving at all. You will see many messages online saying something of the sort, they want to have "fun" driving, with action and excitement plastered in front of them and see games like GT and Forza as dull, boring, whatever. Burnout, arcade titles like that is what they want. That is where a lot of racing game sales go and of course this demographic has never been interested in any GT, for that reason.

I think a big part of the problem though is they have never had something that is realistic. For example, it is fairly common knowledge that generally sims have a 2 physics models for each car, one for when you are going slow and another for when you are going fast but how many games get the slow physics right? You know so you can actually have some fun hooning around, drifting, doing realistic donuts and burnouts and things like that?

Just look at Top Gear and the stars that they have put in the reasonably priced car, each one ends up loving it because it is fun, none of them get out and say "I wish the physics were more fun".

Polyphony just did a Windows 8

I also love Windows 8.

 

[GTchicken]

Polyphony should have done what they did with Gran Turismo 2. They could have made essentially 2 games, which was simulation and arcade on 2 discs. They could have put Gran Turismo Sport on one disc and the traditional Gran Turismo game on another disc! They really didn't need to throw everything that made Gran Turismo great, out the window.

 

[Griffith500]

You mean the game that was sold at retail for four years of its life before switching over to a free to play model made money when it was first released?

TF2 was in the Orange Box bundle that whole time, which complicates it further. Just sayin...

 

[Neomone]

Well they have not confirmed Apex wheel support, there were just a few tweets stating their desire.

It's not quite that flaky. We've got Dan Greenawalt stating that it will be in there.

I know they want to deliver wheel support, and want it to be broader than just Xbox One supported wheels, but until there's a firm release date....

Oh, I agree. It's the video game industry, don't count your chickens etc., etc. Either way, we know they have the intention and we know that they're good about announcing the actual presence or absence of the feature before you put money down. I think that's about as good as it gets.

I tend to agree, although I see the smaller car list as more a hindrance than a help.

Maybe so, but they did fine with Gran Turismo 1 and 3. And other games have done fine with similarly limited car lists.

Whatever is stopping Polyphony making a decent career mode, it's not because it's difficult. It might be difficult to make a really good one, but it's not that difficult to make something along the lines of the standard Gran Turismo zero-to-hero formula.

For example, it is fairly common knowledge that generally sims have a 2 physics models for each car, one for when you are going slow and another for when you are going fast but how many games get the slow physics right?

Only the ones that are still working from Pacejka's Magic Formula. Which was very good for a long time, but many of the top sims have moved away from it because it breaks down at low speeds and has some other difficulties with certain variables. The old tyre model in iRacing was Pacejka, the NTM isn't. pCARS isn't, and I don't believe rF2 or AC are either. That's my understanding anyway.

Forza and GT we don't know, but it's likely that they both did at some point in the past at least.

TF2 was in the Orange Box bundle that whole time, which complicates it further. Just sayin...

Meh, you had to pay money to get it. That it was only available as part of a bundle doesn't really change that.