Is GT7's overall understeering tendency just "wrong"?

[Scaff]

I must confess I have never been driving a race car. My apologies for not knowing what techniques are being applied there.

No problem at all, just be wary of making statements of fact when you're not aware of the actual circumtances.

I had been under the impression that touring cars where basically heavily pimped / tuned road cars. At least most of them look like that.

The vast majority are not, and haven't been for decades, almost all will have sequential gearboxes fitted, making left-foot braking and trail braking the norm.

So I thought the mechanisms would also be basically the same as in road cars.

Even where they are (i.e. still have an h-pattern), both trail braking and left-foot braking have a place and are extensively used.

I have not been talking about F1 / super formula and that sort of racing categories - these are not focus in GT7. I knew that those cars work differently.

Pretty much any racing series will see drivers making regualr use of left-foot and trail braking.

Also, the majority of cars in GT7 are road cars, not race cars, agreed? So, it would be obvious in my opinion to focus on road cars when it comes to physics and driving techniques. Sure, you CAN use left foot braking on a road car - but would you?

Yep - at times I do, particularly when I've driven road cars on track.

I do not know the rules in your country, but where I live it's prohibited under penalty. Everybody is tought to use right foot exclusively for both throttling and braking. LEFT FOOT NEVER EVER TOUCHES THE BRAKES is the motto - regardless of whether you run with manual or automatic transmission.

It's not illegal in the UK, here's (an old) video of Chris Harris explaining why it can be used in a road car. Keep in mind that it's also not exactly a basic skill, but rather one that is more suited to drivers who are already competent in driving.

Also, everybody's just upset about me not knowing how race cars work

I'm not upset about you not knowing, just needed to correct inaccurate claims.

but nobody's commenting on my "real" points !?? :

GT7 does have cars set-up to understeer on base set-ups, which I would agree with totally, as Kaz himself has already explained. What they should do is look at what other titles do to manage this, which is provide race cars with three base set-ups to pick from, Oversteer, Neutral, and understeer.

Even still today, the physics simulation in Gran Turismo is the cutting edge in driving simulation.

 

[CMB350]

Sure, you CAN use left foot braking on a road car - but would you?

I know Scaff and other have covered it already, but I left foot brake in my tracked road car. I’ll do it in slower corners after I’m finished downshifting and already gone back to the throttle with my right foot. It’s just another driving technique to have and be aware of.

I do not know the rules in your country, but where I live it's prohibited under penalty. Everybody is tought to use right foot exclusively for both throttling and braking. LEFT FOOT NEVER EVER TOUCHES THE BRAKES is the motto - regardless of whether you run with manual or automatic transmission

I used to left foot brake in my first car when I was 16. It was just more comfortable for me. I right foot brake now, but could still do left foot if I needed to for some reason.

 

[Meltac]

I don't hate the latest change but stock cars generally still understeer. As Kaz also says, experienced drivers can adjust the setup to remove the understeer, which is fine but changing setting for every car is pretty time consuming.

Thanks! At least someone confirmes !!!

GT7 does have cars set-up to understeer on base set-ups, which I would agree with totally, as Kaz himself has already explained. What they should do is look at what other titles do to manage this, which is provide race cars with three base set-ups to pick from, Oversteer, Neutral, and understeer.

Thanks and yeah this is basically what I meant in the first place. There might be good reasons for the behaviour that I described as "understeering", both in real life and in the game. But as GT7 is basically still a game, PD could IMHO do better at this point.


Couple of years ago I've had a driving safety training. I went there with my R32 (VW, not Nissan), my boss who payed the training came with his AMG SL55, and his wife had a Volvo V50. All three vehicles where 4WD. We drove on a circuit consisting of dry and wet tarmac and some sections with special surface emulating snow and ice. On emulated ice, all cars heavily understeered already with slow speeds. On snow we had both under- and oversteering, depending on speed, steering angle and braking activity. But when braking and abruptly steering on wet tarmac (for circling around obstacles), both the R32 and the SL55 oversteered, whereas only the V50 understeered. One of the trainers was a former race car mechanician and amateur racing pilot, and he said that's normal behaviour for those cars. Just saying...

 

[Tommy_D]

What they should do is look at what other titles do to manage this, which is provide race cars with three base set-ups to pick from, Oversteer, Neutral, and understeer.

Yeah, I don't think it should be so "pre-programmed" like this. I get what you are saying, but I feel like a HUGE miss by all the sim racing titles is that when a racing driver is in a race car with a pit crew and team, etc. the driver is not the one doing the manual wrenching on the car to get it set up. The driver is working with the team, they are reviewing data from the sensors and working together to get the cars set up to feel the way the driver wants.

What I would love is if the game, or your pit team, asked you after doing some test laps how the car felt. You could have options to select based on the questions being asked and the suspension/aero/traction control/etc settings all get adjusted automatically based on your responses. You go out again and drive. The same questions, or slightly altered questions come up and based on your answers some more fine tuning to the car gets automatically done. A couple sessions like this and you could have the car dialed in for your race. Could you have the ability to manually adjust things yourself? Absolutely! I actually think this feature should not be part of the road car events as you generally would not have a team/pit crew for this type of race in real life.

All these racing titles do a piss poor job of explaining what the different suspension/aero/differential/etc adjustments actually do that most people end up adjusting things arbitrarily in hopes that it makes the car better. How many people do you see on this forum talk about using a "praiano tune" on their car? It's because they have no idea how to set up their car and the game does nothing to teach anyone how to do it properly.

 

[Scaff]

What I would love is if the game, or your pit team, asked you after doing some test laps how the car felt. You could have options to select based on the questions being asked and the suspension/aero/traction control/etc settings all get adjusted automatically based on your responses.

This is exactly what Project Cars 2 did (as well as giving three base set-ups for those who wanted a starting point), and I agree it should be far more common in titles.