Is Sophy 2.0 no longer competitive?

[dabz343]

it's hard for me to drive anything different than the Porsche but probably I'll give it a go with different cars coz I enjoyed it very much and I was waiting for Sophy since I've heard about it. I may give a go with the Cayman GT4 street version which is on SH by default. I've noticed that half of the grid were on SM and the rest were on SH, when I was with the GT3 RS. I guess it will be the same for the old GT3 RS. Maybe the older GT3 07' will be different coz its default on SH as far as I remember. I saw some Bentlies and Ferraries in the grid that are rocket on the streights but quite slow in the corners.

Yeah, I know it's difficult to balance the Hyper Car grid, but any way I enjoyed the races very much. What i didn't like as I've mentioned was the desperate way of defending always at all the cost but not doing the same for it's "brothers" which ruined the good racing experience in some way.

I really looking forward for longer races with Sophy, where I'm also able to turn on fuel consumption / tyre wear and where we can choose mandatory tire type for the race.

Fingers crossed for the future of Sophy.

My initial thoughts are consistent with yours. However, Sophy does behave slightly differently in terms of aggression and overall race IQ as you drive different cars/tracks. I'm not certain here, but my experiences say that Sophy at lower PP, like ~460-500, has some of the subtle finesse that good human drivers possess.

I was not a road car guy, my thing was Gr3. But since 1.40, this has flipped. I'm enjoying the stock cars on SH and even some on CM. Just had to invest a little time in adjusting to the level of grip I guess. I think you may like the Cayman GT4, it's very well balanced. The Gordini is a riot and is the only car currently that I know of where it's a 1-make with Sophy. The BRZ and Radical SR3 are also stellar.

Longer races with all the trimmings within custom/mission/Chili settings seem like obvious ways to expand. I'm more curious as to whether Sophy will ever appear in non-obvious contexts like coaching? I guess we will start to get a peek at their long term plans as update windows approach. If they just let Sophy rot in Quick Races, then this will go down as a huge missed opportunity. But, because Sony is the overarching catalyst, I suspect a fair amount of budget/resources and PD's Sophy is just a stepping stone for all the AI agents that may appear in future 1P titles...

 

[morfei1]

Currently I enjoy experimenting with Sophy in quick races. 9 tracks, 3 laps you can't get bored and you spend like an hour or so to pass them all. I'm deffo sure PD is gathering info from Sophy races and they will further fine tune, adjust, develop it base on that.

I really want the Nordschleife Sophy be added soon and practically I don't need anything else to be happy with the game for a long time

I'll give a go with a car with lower PP. Maybe my Golf VII GTi and see how it will be.

 

[TumeK5]

Currently I enjoy experimenting with Sophy in quick races. 9 tracks, 3 laps you can't get bored and you spend like an hour or so to pass them all.

I'm doing the same, although I'm willingly ignoring Tsukuba, as I never liked that track.

Deep Forest I might have a go on, but for now I'm focusing on the remaining 7.

I hope we get support for Trial Mountain soon, that's one of the tracks I'm really looking forward to

 

[RacinLei]

Holy, did all 9 races with gr.2 bop hard tires and all are good battles and close but save first places…
except for Tsukuba 😱
I had to switch to soft tires. Thats the tuffest race to win.

 

[morfei1]

This night I did the same loop, but with Porsche GT4 Street Ver. Stock setup, SH tires.

The racing felt better and more easy to get to podium P2 most of the time on Sophy Pro lvl.

You can see same Sophy behaviour but less pronounced.
You can also see GT-R super fast 1st lap and then way slower in the second one on Road Atlanta back streight.
You can also see GT4 easily overtaking Porsche GT3 on the finale streight on Redbull Ring.

Anyway, I think I found racing with Sophy with a car on SH better than with a car on SM tires.

The grid was more balanced in terms of tires, all of them were on SH just 2-3 old-timers were on CS tires.

Very strange why they decided to put Shelby Cobra and Ford GT40 road ver. in such type of grid, which by default are on CS tires....

 

[br1x]

You can also see GT-R super fast 1st lap and then way slower in the second one on Road Atlanta back streight.

Found the same in the Lexus LFA on Spa, the Huayra starting in P1 was at over 290km/h on the camel straight in lap 1, in the 2nd and 3rd lap he was not even reaching 280km/h. Probably the rubberband as I was pretty far behind after lap 1.

 

[dabz343]

This night I did the same loop, but with Porsche GT4 Street Ver. Stock setup, SH tires.

The racing felt better and more easy to get to podium P2 most of the time on Sophy Pro lvl.

You can see same Sophy behaviour but less pronounced.
You can also see GT-R super fast 1st lap and then way slower in the second one on Road Atlanta back streight.
You can also see GT4 easily overtaking Porsche GT3 on the finale streight on Redbull Ring.

Anyway, I think I found racing with Sophy with a car on SH better than with a car on SM tires.

The grid was more balanced in terms of tires, all of them were on SH just 2-3 old-timers were on CS tires.

Very strange why they decided to put Shelby Cobra and Ford GT40 road ver. in such type of grid, which by default are on CS tires....

This captures pretty much the same experience I've had in my Cayman GT4 verses the 911 GT3 RS. Lower PP cars on equal SH produce some fun races. It may just be the sweet spot for now imo.

Yea the grid choices are sometimes a bit wonky now. If you're unlucky to choose to drive one of those on CS tires, Sophy on SH will wipe the floor...now if PD could just wrap up the individual 9 races with Sophy into one championship then I would not hesitate to play that everyday.

 

[Galvston]

Try running Road Atlanta with a F1000 GT formula car, but don't cheat - have it at 0 TCS and 0 abs, like it would be an 80s formula car.

Insane, you can't win, your car will be trying to murder you, while sophy with the newer formula cars running

 

[morfei1]

This captures pretty much the same experience I've had in my Cayman GT4 verses the 911 GT3 RS. Lower PP cars on equal SH produce some fun races. It may just be the sweet spot for now imo.

Yea the grid choices are sometimes a bit wonky now. If you're unlucky to choose to drive one of those on CS tires, Sophy on SH will wipe the floor...now if PD could just wrap up the individual 9 races with Sophy into one championship then I would not hesitate to play that everyday.

This night, I'll do a loop with the old Porsche 81 Turbo which by default is on CS tires and also less PP and see how it will go.

Not quite sure if its related with the early Sophy test event on Tsukuba, but my experience so far on this track is very, very good with Sophy. Sophy doesn't do desperate moves there.

I'm not very much in to open wheel racing. I'm too old now and have my own (slow) timings. Maybe something up to Gr.2 or max Gr.1. I prefer street stock car racing, and BoP gr.4/gr.3 in general.

 

[Deni323]

Regarding Tsukuba reported being the toughest race, is it possible that since it is by far the shortest track on full layout Sophy did the most laps learning it in the same amount of time versus other tracks.

Could this be the reason it has learned it better, or is it just hard because is very narrow

 

[Bojador]

Regarding Tsukuba reported being the toughest race, is it possible that since it is by far the shortest track on full layout Sophy did the most laps learning it in the same amount of time versus other tracks.

Could this be the reason it has learned it better, or is it just hard because is very narrow

In my opinion it’s because it has a small straight so the advantage we have in top speed is less noticeable and it’s harder to overtake.

 

[RacinLei]

Regarding Tsukuba reported being the toughest race, is it possible that since it is by far the shortest track on full layout Sophy did the most laps learning it in the same amount of time versus other tracks.

Could this be the reason it has learned it better, or is it just hard because is very narrow

the big challange it hase in fact only 3 corners to attack propper in the braking zones, turn 1 and both u turns. In my opinion, 1 more lap would it make less stressfull. Sophy isnt stronger on that track.

 

[dabz343]

This night, I'll do a loop with the old Porsche 81 Turbo which by default is on CS tires and also less PP and see how it will go.

Good luck, it will be a real achievement to get 1 podium!

 

[morfei1]

Good luck, it will be a real achievement to get 1 podium!

I did it and I managed 5 podiums out of 9. They almost killed me on Suzuka but managed to recover and had a decent finish in top 5.

Half of the grid is on CS the other half on SH.

When you are on lower grade tires they are very aggressive in the first lap both attacking you and defending from you. After that the calm down and find their pace.

Overall good racing experience had some great fight moments with them.

I think racing with Sophy is not about winning but about racing.... close batteles attacking defending and so on.

Curious to try the same with the same car but in SH tires.

 

[dabz343]

I think racing with Sophy is not about winning but about racing.... close batteles attacking defending and so on.

Exactly! If you dial back the need to win, then the game with Sophy takes on a different meaning.

It's weird, I'm usually pretty competitive, but when doing the Sophy races, I find myself enjoying the experience of observing how she drives rather that how fast I am. I often just poke my nose, create a small overlap and keep it there just to see how she handles the pressure. This also keeps me in check too as I want my race craft to be ultra clean.

Other times, I do back off and try to seize a moment to make a run on an exit...this is so rewarding, especially with an underpowered car. Wish the races were longer, that way, I could be more patient and learn to exploit weakness in each rival.

 

[newmedia_dev]

If you drive the car like you would in real life, these are fun races. If you make contact or chuck it up the inside regardless of cost or life damage you end up complaining.

If you treat it like a slightly dumb but fast human and you all have to pay for damage it's such a good experience.

 

[morfei1]

Sophy is not perfect right now, I'm sure it's only the beginning and amazing things will come in the future. So far the best race A.I considering I have experience with most of the SIM titles.

 

[Revengel]

Exactly! If you dial back the need to win, then the game with Sophy takes on a different meaning.

It's weird, I'm usually pretty competitive, but when doing the Sophy races, I find myself enjoying the experience of observing how she drives rather that how fast I am. I often just poke my nose, create a small overlap and keep it there just to see how she handles the pressure. This also keeps me in check too as I want my race craft to be ultra clean.

Other times, I do back off and try to seize a moment to make a run on an exit...this is so rewarding, especially with an underpowered car. Wish the races were longer, that way, I could be more patient and learn to exploit weakness in each rival.

This.

I have so much fun with this new A.I. Driving (in VR) and using a manual in street cars with Sophy is a stinking blast! When I win I'm happy, but I spend so much time watching Sophy drive in front of me.

Now that I have the Master license part done I can settle into this part of the game for a while.

 

[dabz343]

If you treat it like a slightly dumb but fast human and you all have to pay for damage it's such a good experience.

That's a funny way to put it, but how right you are.

Sophy is not perfect right now, I'm sure it's only the beginning and amazing things will come in the future. So far the best race A.I considering I have experience with most of the SIM titles.

Yup, road cars on SH up to ~600pp seems to be the sweet spot for now. Indeed more things to come...hopefully calibrating the Gr cars too. Btw, nice achievement with you 911 on CS. I underestimated your race craft!

I have so much fun with this new A.I. Driving (in VR) and using a manual in street cars with Sophy is a stinking blast! When I win I'm happy, but I spend so much time watching Sophy drive in front of me.

Indeed VR steps it up to another level.

 

[first place]

More great races against Sophy. Been using the McLaren VGT, very hard Sophy is against the McLaren. The faster cars give an immense race for me against Sophy.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I'm using the 400R stock against Sophy. I can win easy and medium difficulty with some robust overtaking but hard, I was 7th. Sophy won with a X-bow. Cheat car if I ever saw one...

 

[morfei1]

That's a funny way to put it, but how right you are.

Yup, road cars on SH up to ~600pp seems to be the sweet spot for now. Indeed more things to come...hopefully calibrating the Gr cars too. Btw, nice achievement with you 911 on CS. I underestimated your race craft!

Indeed VR steps it up to another level.

I did a loop last night with the Gr.3. To be honest it was exciting and challenging experience for me and my lvl, which I can compare with most of my best racers in multiplayer so far but in another sim - ACC, racing against other players in Competition servers or LFM.

I consider myself as a clean average fast guy with decent pace. Racing with Sophy in a Gr.3 was good, I was sweating at the end of the loop.

Anyway, it wasn't perfect though. Sophy in a Gr.3 car is way to much aggressively defending it's position, waving a lot in the streights , trying to block you most of the time at all the cost. I don't find this behaviour realistic and sportsmanship, though you can find some dirty drivers use it in the multiplayer in the GT7 and other sims also.

Considering Sophy is ment to be our racing friend, our race teacher I think it's not a good idea to show new drivers such racing etiquette which will force to use it in the multiplayer against other drivers in the long run.

I expect longer races with fuel and tyre wear to be even more exciting. it wasn't to hard to get to the podium but difficult or lacking the time/laps to get the victory.

I was overexcited during the loop and did some mistakes here and there.

Racing with sports road cars is fun, but racing with BoP cars is challenging and very, very close to a GT3 racing - close and intensive.

 

[dabz343]

I did a loop last night with the Gr.3. To be honest it was exciting and challenging experience for me and my lvl, which I can compare with most of my best racers in multiplayer so far but in another sim - ACC, racing against other players in Competition servers or LFM.

I consider myself as a clean average fast guy with decent pace. Racing with Sophy in a Gr.3 was good, I was sweating at the end of the loop.

Anyway, it wasn't perfect though. Sophy in a Gr.3 car is way to much aggressively defending it's position, waving a lot in the streights , trying to block you most of the time at all the cost. I don't find this behaviour realistic and sportsmanship, though you can find some dirty drivers use it in the multiplayer in the GT7 and other sims also.

Considering Sophy is ment to be our racing friend, our race teacher I think it's not a good idea to show new drivers such racing etiquette which will force to use it in the multiplayer against other drivers in the long run.

I expect longer races with fuel and tyre wear to be even more exciting. it wasn't to hard to get to the podium but difficult or lacking the time/laps to get the victory.

I was overexcited during the loop and did some mistakes here and there.

Racing with sports road cars is fun, but racing with BoP cars is challenging and very, very close to a GT3 racing - close and intensive.

After viewing your vid, I agree that the pace of Sophy in Gr3 will produce some fun/challenging races for you and others near your pace. However, if we take your race at SPA for example and look at the actual lap times, Sophy was unable to beat your best at 2.25. Which when compared to many of the quick Gr3 drivers in Sport, it is miles off.

In my view, I think there should be another level above the current 'Pro' that increases the pace of Sophy to say ~2.17 at SPA on RH. Some will even want 2.16s, but Sophy lapping consistently in the 1.15s on RH at SPA might be overkill.

As for the aggression, yes the Gr3 version of Sophy is not the same as the 550pp road car version. In Gr3, Sophy has her elbows out. She doesn't care if there is contact and parts go flying. She is going to fight hard because in the end, there is prize money involved. Take that incident you had with the BMW M6 at SPA for example. It was hard racing by both. You stuck your nose in, created a small overlap, but Sophy squeezed you in an attempt to shut the door. You both, imo, were aggressive and left the minimum space possible. So the contact was a 50/50 for me and I think this type of race craft needs to stay in the Gr categories...it's part of the thrill.

So we definitely have different versions of Sophy and I am one that likes this. There should be an increase in intensity, pressure and race craft as you move up from road to race cars. Variations in aggression, temper, patience, strategy, focus are all good things, perhaps some ability to customize to individual tastes is what will make all of us happy.

 

[morfei1]

After viewing your vid, I agree that the pace of Sophy in Gr3 will produce some fun/challenging races for you and others near your pace. However, if we take your race at SPA for example and look at the actual lap times, Sophy was unable to beat your best at 2.25. Which when compared to many of the quick Gr3 drivers in Sport, it is miles off.

In my view, I think there should be another level above the current 'Pro' that increases the pace of Sophy to say ~2.17 at SPA on RH. Some will even want 2.16s, but Sophy lapping consistently in the 1.15s on RH at SPA might be overkill.

As for the aggression, yes the Gr3 version of Sophy is not the same as the 550pp road car version. In Gr3, Sophy has her elbows out. She doesn't care if there is contact and parts go flying. She is going to fight hard because in the end, there is prize money involved. Take that incident you had with the BMW M6 at SPA for example. It was hard racing by both. You stuck your nose in, created a small overlap, but Sophy squeezed you in an attempt to shut the door. You both, imo, were aggressive and left the minimum space possible. So the contact was a 50/50 for me and I think this type of race craft needs to stay in the Gr categories...it's part of the thrill.

So we definitely have different versions of Sophy and I am one that likes this. There should be an increase in intensity, pressure and race craft as you move up from road to race cars. Variations in aggression, temper, patience, strategy, focus are all good things, perhaps some ability to customize to individual tastes is what will make all of us happy.

I was also surprised by the lap times, when I saw it, comparing it to my ACC lap times which are around 2.20 more or less. it's far from the best still but it's average fast as I mention. I think it's because the race is too short and the first and second lap it's overcrowded, and Sophy trying to block you. I try to keep it clean and realistic same as ACC races. So at the end there is not enough time/laps to see my actual race pace.


I don't really care for the lap time, but the feeling from the racing and it's good, but I'm interested to see how a GT7 fast guy will deal with the Sophy, what his times might be for example at Spa. Something makes me think that Sophy dynamically adjust it's pace in some window frame according to the driver pace so race be more exciting but I'm not quite sure about that.

The accident in that corner was my fault it was a pure dive bomb from my side, because I did the same mistake 2 times in a raw and also Sophy did the same mistakes 2 times in a raw. I was luck the first time but second time not so lucky. This doesn't bother me, but they wave too much on the straights, when you get closer and try to overtake them.

 

[dabz343]

Something makes me think that Sophy dynamically adjust it's pace in some window frame according to the driver pace so race be more exciting but I'm not quite sure about that.

I'm pretty sure there is some rubber banding going on, so we all have to expect that Sophy's overall times will vary depending on pace of driver. Like it or not, this is PD's design.

To be clear, when I referenced your lap time, it wasn't to say that is indicative of your pace. Rather, I was noting your fast lap time to say that none of the Sophy drivers did any better. If memory serves, a quick driver on RH with a Gr3 at SPA will consistently run in the high 2.16s.

If this is true, then calibration of Sophy is needed, at least at SPA, so that advanced drivers feel challenged too.

 

[morfei1]

I'm pretty sure there is some rubber banding going on, so we all have to expect that Sophy's overall times will vary depending on pace of driver. Like it or not, this is PD's design.

To be clear, when I referenced your lap time, it wasn't to say that is indicative of your pace. Rather, I was noting your fast lap time to say that none of the Sophy drivers did any better. If memory serves, a quick driver on RH with a Gr3 at SPA will consistently run in the high 2.16s.

If this is true, then calibration of Sophy is needed, at least at SPA, so that advanced drivers feel challenged too.

If Sophy is auto adjusted towards the driver pace, maybe there is no need to be tweaked. We just need a very fast driver to do a test race on Spa with a Gr.3 on RH tires and see what Sophy going to do. Or atleast some seconds faster than me, let's say 2.20... or lower on RH.

Maybe we will be surprised.

 

[dabz343]

If Sophy is auto adjusted towards the driver pace, maybe there is no need to be tweaked. We just need a very fast driver to do a test race on Spa with a Gr.3 on RH tires and see what Sophy going to do

Yes that could very well be. If the auto adjust feature in Sophy -- as you put it -- was highly sophisticated, then I agree that Sophy would adjust to the pace of the players. Even if the varying players' paces range from 2.16 to 2.25 at SPA on RH with Gr3 -- all within the 'PRO' section of specs...hmm.

Given that there are currently 3 levels to choose from, it make more sense that Sophy operates within a narrower range. Say, more like 2-3sec/lap to accommodate the player's pace. This is consistent with my experience in dozens of road cars. Also, I remember others who stated that with Gr3 cars, Sophy's outright pace was not there. They often won with 2.22 lap times. And I have no reasons to deny these statements from quality players that I know.

So while we may ultimately get there for Sophy in 'PRO' form to accommodate drivers with nearly a 10sec/lap difference, I'm not sure if that is wise in terms of game mechanics...at the least, I would question the need to keep the current 3 levels of difficulties/payouts.

If there is a fast driver who wants to chime in with a video and clarify things, then I'm all for that too. Until then, have fun testing and racing. Sophy is getting more and more enjoyable -- on and off track.

 

[MarwaanZA0]

I was reading the latest "Known Issues" update from PD. It sounds like our experience with Sophy (Sophy not being competitive with tuned cars) may be a result of this glitch:

This tells me that the rival cars in Quick Race should get selected by your car's current PP, but the selection is currently glitched - so they're getting selected by the car's base PP instead.

What do you think?

 

[Meythia]

but the selection is currently glitched - so they're getting selected by the car's base PP instead.

What do you think?

I dont think this addresses the biggest issue: custom race AI cars will use the tyres the car was purchased with.
But it will greatly increase the fun already.

 

[dabz343]

I was reading the latest "Known Issues" update from PD. It sounds like our experience with Sophy (Sophy not being competitive with tuned cars) may be a result of this glitch:

This tells me that the rival cars in Quick Race should get selected by your car's current PP, but the selection is currently glitched - so they're getting selected by the car's base PP instead.

What do you think?

I think your hunch may be right. However, there is no mention of Sophy races specifically. So the way it's worded in the known issues, PD may be referring to the payout glitch using a Fiat against a tomahawk...Not sure, I have not see the full list of issues yet.