Is tyre degradation so high in GT5 thats its unrealistic? PD read!

[CSLACR]

Ok so first of all I must say I have never used "Racing" slicks in real life and done laps with it to see how they wear.

But what about the Sports and comfort tyres in GT5, are they not meant to represent real world tyres people have access to for street driving? I sure have used those!

Even performance tyres in my car in real life last years. I try not to do too many burnouts, but I load them and make them screech around corners on a daily basis

Then they aren't lasting "years" unless you don't drive often or far.

Not only have I never felt tyres to be wearing out anywhere near as fast as in Gt5 but I have also NOT noticed much of a reduction in grip if any as the tyre wears, at least not until its under half worn and much more. I am only talking about dry weather here.

There's quite a big difference on street tires, see below why.

It seems to make sense to me, isnt the tyre material made of the same rubber until you get to the point where you have to throw them out i.e completely worn?

Most (if not all) street tires have harder and harder rubber as you get to the base of the tire.
Meaning the more worn they get, the less sticky your rubber is.

In GT5 it seems not only do the tyres seem to be wearing in fast forward but as soon as your tyres hit 95% wear left they loose a TON of their grip neither of which feels even CLOSE to real imo.

They don't lose a ton of grip at 95% wear in GT5, not even close. that's where I usually turn my best laps.

A lot of good racers in gt5 that drive carefullly, especially FR drivers may not notice this much because they are always keeping their car in check and adjust grip levels, but as a heavy AWD driver, I notice the redution in front end grip a lot.

GT5 (and previous GT games) have exaggerated tire wear, especially on FWD imo.

It seems like a ton of grip has been lost and the tyre wear indicator has just started to show wear.

Just not true. the grip vs wear ratio in GT5 is pretty decent, albeit a bit exaggerated.

For example driving a veryon or GTR I notice after just 1 LAP corners I could make normally the previous lap, I now just under-steer heavily and plow into the wall.

You're driving all kinds of wrong, unless you're at the Ring for "just one lap"

Heck In real life have pushed my car to the tyres limits for hours on end on many occasions and the tyres still just gradually wear, as in last a YEAR + not a few minutes, and my car is pretty heavy.

I can make 30 laps in a Miata at Monaco in GT5, does that count?
It's a bit odd, because this incredible wear you say you see in real life is much less then what I experience, yet in GT5 you seem to experience 2-3X the tire wear I do.
Perhaps exaggerating a LOT?

According to Gt5 one spirited driving to somewhere 10km/6miles away should mean your tires are made of popsicles when you get there.

Perhaps you push harder in the video game then you do IRL? Crazy thought.

In Gt5 I go around a track for 5 minutes just pushing hard for a fast lap and the grip is gone. It takes almost that long to go thorough a set in real life if you tried your hardest and just sit there doing one long non stop burnout!

Exaggeration king will be your title I guess.
Either you're wrong about your real life "experience", or you drive horribly in GT5.

The sad thing about all this is, I agree that the tire wear is greatly exaggerated in GT5, but every one of your "points" is either an exaggeration or completely untrue.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Wait how did you all of a sudden figure out how much grip the tires in the game has when it reaches a certain amount of wear? I would really like to hear this one, as it is now tire grip is lost gradually but I have found no proof that 50% worn tires equates to 50% tire grip, that's stupid, grip and wear do not go hand in hand at all.

Precisely.
You have just described the GT5 tire/grip wear model.
Although it is a little more non-linear than that.

While people in here can think GT5 tire model is simple, flawed or what have you, it could have been much worse.

It could be a heck of a lot better too.

GT5 doesn't simulate tire destruction which is what having an empty tire indicator would mean, but in GT5 this means bald tires with very little grip.

Correction, absolutely no grip.

You guys expecting perfect tire simulation? Lol not even in real life do you get such a thing, too many variables to get that. GT5 does however give you air temperature which affects tire heat, colder temps like when it's about to rain tends to make tires take quite a while to heat up.

I agree, you won't get a perfect tire wear model or anything close, without a much larger selection of tires, and a more accurate grip loss model.

I for one can't equate 50% tire life to 50% tire grip.

Me neither.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Precisely.
You have just described the GT5 tire/grip wear model.
Although it is a little more non-linear than that.

I'm experiencing the exact opposite in Gt5 Le mans 24 hour race. My laps time are pretty constant for the first 8 laps but then grip starts to drop off around 30-35% left. If my tires lost 50% grip my lap time would suffer a lot more than a second or two.

Agree, I think people need to start realising, as has been pointed out some racing series have purpose built tyres DESIGNED TO WEAR QUICKLY. This should not be the case for GT5 as they have just a single type of tyre for all cars in the game.

I never heard Nascar tires are design to wear quickly but are very soft for extra grip. These cars are a lot heavier than F1.
Both Gt5 and Forza 4 make compromises as they are more about "collection of cars" than hardcore racing game. Both are like "the jack of all trade but king of none" of racing.

 

[bugsbunny]

The soft tires in ferrari f1 online provide supersoft grip and wear of hard compound
In monaco grand prix , supersoft lasts for 5 laps
In gt5 online , it lasts 15 laps easily up to 20

 

[SavageEvil]

Does anyone know how long actual hard compound tires last compared to medium and soft? GT5 doesn't have once shot super soft tires at all, tires stop at the soft multilap tires. Super soft tires are for things like speed runs and will last little over a couple of laps, absolutely not for racing. RS tires in GT5 are annoying to me, they offer a lot of grip but the snap grip loss is incredibly nuts. I prefer to run sport tires as they have gradual grip loss and the transition is slow enough to allow you time to correct your mistake, with RS it's a very small chance you can catch it.

Flawed as GT5 tire degradation is, many people tend to race for like a few laps...so why have tire damage on if you only going to race for 2 laps? No point as you wouldn't realistically wear your tires enough, now would you? I think there might be a bug in the system that somehow lets RS tires last so long, it seems that high lap races tires last a very long time especially if you drive and not drive like the devil is chasing you. Street tires seem to be the toughest tires, they last extraordinarily long when driven within their limits...high sidewalls aren't known for road holding capabilities.

 

[CSLACR]

Does anyone know how long actual hard compound tires last compared to medium and soft? GT5 doesn't have once shot super soft tires at all, tires stop at the soft multilap tires. Super soft tires are for things like speed runs and will last little over a couple of laps, absolutely not for racing. RS tires in GT5 are annoying to me, they offer a lot of grip but the snap grip loss is incredibly nuts. I prefer to run sport tires as they have gradual grip loss and the transition is slow enough to allow you time to correct your mistake, with RS it's a very small chance you can catch it.

You do realize that's how grip works, right?
The more grip you have, you more grip you lose when you exceed the threshold, it's pretty basic stuff. That's why people complain about cars like Corvettes and Vipers having snap tendencies, because they have so much grip, when it finally breaks free it's like falling off a cliff.

 

[xSNAKEx]

Then they aren't lasting "years" unless you don't drive often or far.

There's quite a big difference on street tires, see below why.

Most (if not all) street tires have harder and harder rubber as you get to the base of the tire.
Meaning the more worn they get, the less sticky your rubber is.

[/QUOTE]

As I said yes I certainly notice this a little, but nowhere near as much as in Gt5


They don't lose a ton of grip at 95% wear in GT5, not even close. that's where I usually turn my best laps.


GT5 (and previous GT games) have exaggerated tire wear, especially on FWD imo.

Just not true. the grip vs wear ratio in GT5 is pretty decent, albeit a bit exaggerated.

You're driving all kinds of wrong, unless you're at the Ring for "just one lap"


I can make 30 laps in a Miata at Monaco in GT5, does that count?
It's a bit odd, because this incredible wear you say you see in real life is much less then what I experience, yet in GT5 you seem to experience 2-3X the tire wear I do.
Perhaps exaggerating a LOT?

Perhaps you push harder in the video game then you do IRL? Crazy thought.



Exaggeration king will be your title I guess.
Either you're wrong about your real life "experience", or you drive horribly in GT5.

The sad thing about all this is, I agree that the tire wear is greatly exaggerated in GT5, but every one of your "points" is either an exaggeration or completely untrue.[/QUOTE]


I haven't done a huge amount of driving lately, maybe, 5000-10000 km a year nor are my tires super soft performance, just regular Sports tyres, 235 wide, car weighs about 1600kg.

Obviously I am not thrashing the car like I do in Gt5 but I am taking these differences in account when looking at how long tyres in real life last compared to gt5.

Its not something that should be compared with hard facts, just a general vibe that something is off and off by such an amount that you wouldnt need to dissect facts surgically to notice it.

I was not the only one to mention how quickly the tyres go off in gt5 when comparing real life experiences, driving crefully or not. There was a guy who was saying they went through a couple of whole racing days non stop on one set. If they tried to replicate even close to similar circumstances in GT5 they would need about 10+ sets I am guessing.

Ask that guy to drive in Gt5 like he did in real life And I bet you wouldst even need to race for a few days he would end the experiment in 10-20 minutes as the set he is driving on would start to become ice soon enough

Stop ignoring real world examples like this.

Ok as you say 95 is still fine say 85% then. Don't get caught up in specifics, I am saying in general there is too much grip loost too quickly.

Yes I exaggerate sometimes for effect to show how strongly I feel about something, I thought it was obvious and I didn't know you would actually take it as hard data.

Try to understand I am trying to convey a general message.

I also haven't played much of spec 2 but from memory yes 50% Wear feels like 50% grip

 

[Rich S]

The HARDS going quicker than the SOFTS is terrible....just a disgrace.

The reason for things like this along with the concrete blocks that are placed in chicanes & also the shear lack of visible damage/consequences in this game is because there's so many cars.

1,000+ cars means 100% less realism than we could get with having 10 cars in the game.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I'm experiencing the exact opposite in Gt5 Le mans 24 hour race. My laps time are pretty constant for the first 8 laps but then grip starts to drop off around 30-35% left. If my tires lost 50% grip my lap time would suffer a lot more than a second or two.

Depending on how the car is setup, and the tires wear front to back, as well your driving style, what you are describing can be the case.

My point is the wear time is too fast, and there is too much wear in the last half of the wear meter.
If you run the meter all the way down, there is no grip and the car is undrivable.
This should not be the case.

Lemans is also a track where grip drop off, won't affect your time as much.

At the Nurb any loss of grip is more critical and can affect your times greatly.

I never heard Nascar tires are design to wear quickly but are very soft for extra grip. These cars are a lot heavier than F1.

This varies from track to track, and race to race.
Generally, the harder compounds don't drop off as much, but are slower to start with.
However, unless Goodyear screwed up, which they did at Indy a couple years ago, or some teams run too much suspension force on one tire, the tires are supposed to last longer than a fuel run. Grip level will usually continue to deteriorate.

Both Gt5 and Forza 4 make compromises as they are more about "collection of cars" than hardcore racing game. Both are like "the jack of all trade but king of none" of racing.

This is true.
Another dilemma for PD is if they make RS tires last longer the hard and mediums become irrelevant,
since when you have to stop for gas, you might as well put on new tires.

 

[xSNAKEx]

Wow nice to see the exact OPPOSITE was implemented

I was just on Eiger short course, about 8% wet on racing softs in a 02 RX-7

The rear end went out slightly out on one of the corners and I could see the tyre wear indicator draining like it was water and the bottom was a hole

After just about 3 seconds My tyres were down to 70%.

It only took another 3 corners and My tyres were under 25% left

In 15 seconds I managed to wear out racing soft tyres and it was on an rx 7 with only 220 HP cos of restrictions, in damp conditions

WTF PD?

 

[DJones]

WTF PD?

We have a winner!
And THAT my friends is why we love PD. Sure they may abuse you sometimes, but it was open handed... Sometimes they do something wonderful for you and you remember how much you love them. Then they proceed to slap you around like a small boy (third person view)

Sometimes you doubt your love and vow to run away and never return, but before you can they give you christmas card and a free, crappy, but nonetheless, free car.

Like an abused woman we must always return.

Like the honey badger PD don't give a *****!
Well they actually do I just couldn't think of a funnier analogy.

Did I answer your WTF?

May the curbs be with you ~ TBT

 

[Padracer99]

What's even worse is that it's been proven that Racing Soft tyres will actually wear slower than Racing Hard or Medium, while being faster. Something to do with the amount of slip each tyre experiences, and because Softs are the most grippy and therefore have less slip they get the best tyre wear.

I or any racing teams you ask can prove you wrong. The only reason why you would wear hards quicker than it should is if you dont know how to drive with what your tire and car can offer, for example steering more than what the car and tire can allow. This is a big problem when people realize just how important tire wear is and how the compounds work.

Soft compounds compress more rubber's surface area to the road which means more grip and because more is used then more wear

Medium would be in between

Harder compounds compress less rubber's surface area to the road which means less grip and because less is used then less wear


Car's set up can affect tire wear just as much as how you drive. Lots of people put the maximum and that causes excess wear because the car and tire can only allow what it can allow. Regardless, theres always a difference depending on settings.

The explanation is at https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=235983

 

[CSLACR]

I or any racing teams you ask can prove you wrong. The only reason why you would wear hards quicker than it should is if you dont know how to drive with what your tire and car can offer, for example steering more than what the car and tire can allow. This is a big problem when people realize just how important tire wear is and how the compounds work.

Soft compounds compress more rubber's surface area to the road which means more grip and because more is used then more wear

Medium would be in between

Harder compounds compress less rubber's surface area to the road which means less grip and because less is used then less wear


Car's set up can affect tire wear just as much as how you drive. Lots of people put the maximum and that causes excess wear because the car and tire can only allow what it can allow. Regardless, theres always a difference depending on settings.

The explanation is at https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=235983

First off, that post was made before this update.
Second off, first reply in your link -

This video is about F1 2011 tyres only. Pirelli designed them especifically for Formula 1. They are not like other racing tyres or road tyres.

Finally, of course soft is supposed to wear faster, nobody said anything different in what you quoted.

The point was they didn't.

Now they do, but all tires still wear out unrealistically fast, because we're still playing with GT3's tire model. Yes we are.

 

[Sleek Stratos]

So hard compounds wear out fast and softs do too now? Glad I've finished the endurance series then. Although I will revisit the 24 of Le Mans eventually.

 

[Jav]

First off, that post was made before this update.
Second off, first reply in your link -
Finally, of course soft is supposed to wear faster, nobody said anything different in what you quoted.

The point was they didn't.

Now they do, but all tires still wear out unrealistically fast, because we're still playing with GT3's tire model. Yes we are.

Thank you!
Just ignore that post, that user have been banned 3 times already for stuff like that...

 

[RacinJake]

Once again Kaz has screwed up an otherwise good thing! I have spent hours on set up of various cars in my garage based on the game physics regarding tire wear and now we get another present.......and at Christmas even!

I'm so aggravated with the UN-REALISTIC tire wear dialed into the latest UPDATE that I am considering selling my copy of the game! I am not the only person thinking the same thoughts! I raced in 2 races online tonight after the update and more than 1/2 of the players in the room were very upset with the changes Kaz has made!

There is an old saying that should apply here and it is " IF IT AIN'T BROKEN....DON'T FIX IT"!!!!!!!

Maybe Kaz should listen to what the people who payed the money think about this game! I for one, am very disappointed in Polyphony Digital for these un-realistic changes in the game. The updated changes have totally taken the realism and fun out of it for me and many others I race with. Time for another game. This one sucks now!

 

[Jav]

Once again Kaz has screwed up an otherwise good thing! I have spent hours on set up of various cars in my garage based on the game physics regarding tire wear and now we get another present.......and at Christmas even!

I'm so aggravated with the UN-REALISTIC tire wear dialed into the latest UPDATE that I am considering selling my copy of the game! I am not the only person thinking the same thoughts! I raced in 2 races online tonight after the update and more than 1/2 of the players in the room were very upset with the changes Kaz has made!

There is an old saying that should apply here and it is " IF IT AIN'T BROKEN....DON'T FIX IT"!!!!!!!

Maybe Kaz should listen to what the people who payed the money think about this game! I for one, am very disappointed in Polyphony Digital for these un-realistic changes in the game. The updated changes have totally taken the realism and fun out of it for me and many others I race with. Time for another game. This one sucks now!

They are just gearing the game to cater the 5 lap racers that want to implement pit strategy to a 5 lap race wich is just plain dumb!

 

[Sleek Stratos]

Once again Kaz has screwed up an otherwise good thing! I have spent hours on set up of various cars in my garage based on the game physics regarding tire wear and now we get another present.......and at Christmas even!

I'm so aggravated with the UN-REALISTIC tire wear dialed into the latest UPDATE that I am considering selling my copy of the game! I am not the only person thinking the same thoughts! I raced in 2 races online tonight after the update and more than 1/2 of the players in the room were very upset with the changes Kaz has made!

There is an old saying that should apply here and it is " IF IT AIN'T BROKEN....DON'T FIX IT"!!!!!!!

Maybe Kaz should listen to what the people who payed the money think about this game! I for one, am very disappointed in Polyphony Digital for these un-realistic changes in the game. The updated changes have totally taken the realism and fun out of it for me and many others I race with. Time for another game. This one sucks now!

Except tire wear was broken. 💡 And now it's been improved, mind you not fixed, but a step in the right direction.

 

[Jav]

Except tire wear was broken. 💡 And now it's been improved, mind you not fixed, but a step in the right direction.

Improved? How is it improved? It's worse than ever!

 

[Sleek Stratos]

Improved? How is it improved? It's worse than ever!

Because soft tires lasted longer than hards, now they don't. Do either of them last as much as their real life counter parts? No, but they work more within the expected parameters of the compounds.

 

[Jav]

Because soft tires lasted longer than hards, now they don't. Do either of them last as much as their real life counter parts? No, but they work more within the expected parameters of the compounds.

Yeah, but now the Hards last even less than the softs used to! Now Softs are just unusable, mediums is a gamble and hards don't last long enough!

 

[m8h3r]

What was Kaz thinking with the new degradation update?

Half of the Indy road course in a fully modified Ferrari 599 and they are unusable by the end if the drag strip?

 

[Sleek Stratos]

What was Kaz thinking with the new degradation update?

Half of the Indy road course in a fully modified Ferrari 599 and they are unusable by the end if the drag strip?

So turn off the tire wear and drag race to your heart's content.

 

[xSNAKEx]

So turn off the tire wear and drag race to your heart's content.

How is this a fix, the option to turn of tyre wear was ALWAYS there, what others and I are saying we DO want tyre wear, just not in stupidly unrealistic manner

 

[Sleek Stratos]

Well from what I gathered, m8h3r was saying he didn't have much of his tires left to do drag racing in (I think) which to me seems like a proper scenario to turn off the tire wear. Unless YOU want tire wear while you're drag racing with your buddies, in which case that's just weird.

 

[xSNAKEx]

Well from what I gathered, m8h3r was saying he didn't have much of his tires left to do drag racing in (I think) which to me seems like a proper scenario to turn off the tire wear. Unless YOU want tire wear while you're drag racing with your buddies, in which case that's just weird.

I just want the car in the game to behave like a car in real life. I don't think that's too much to ask for when it comes to tyre wear, its a very simple thing to achieve.

 

[2011Z]

To answer the OP... its a bit excessive and yes, I think it is unrealistic. It goes from Bad to Gone in seconds flat. I understand I drive hard and they will wear quicker with my driving style, but from 70% to 10% in two corners?... C'mon! That's just ****in' Stupid! I am in the middle of the 24hr Nurburgring and I went from pitting every 3 laps w/ Racing Softs to pitting every other lap w/ Racing Hards!!! WTF?!!

 

[Padracer99]

First off, that post was made before this update.
Second off, first reply in your link -
Finally, of course soft is supposed to wear faster, nobody said anything different in what you quoted.

The point was they didn't.

Now they do, but all tires still wear out unrealistically fast, because we're still playing with GT3's tire model. Yes we are.

Not unrealistically fast because GT5 relies in real life data like whats been given in Le Mans. Its not fast but you have to re evaluate your settings. You can quote and say whatever as much as you want to complain and I'm telling you now that it wont change anything , GT5 will always rely in real life data , this is not Need For Speed but this is GT5 the real driving simulator.

 

[CSLACR]

Not unrealistically fast because GT5 relies in real life data like whats been given in Le Mans. Its not fast but you have to re evaluate your settings. You can quote and say whatever as much as you want to complain and I'm telling you now that it wont change anything , GT5 will always rely in real life data , this is not Need For Speed but this is GT5 the real driving simulator.

Give me settings that will enable me to race competitively for 3 hours on one set of racing slicks in GT5 then please.

 

[Padracer99]

Give me settings that will enable me to race competitively for 3 hours on one set of racing slicks in GT5 then please.

You have to test on your own but avoid the settings close to the maximum because your car and tire can only allow what it can allow and having maximum settings can give excessive wear without the extra grip but even if you don't get the most efficient wearing, your pace should always be faster than someone who has a more efficient settings if your doing as well as the other driver but when you said 3 hours , I don't think only having 1 kind of compound all the time for a 3 hour race will be competitive because you have to look at your fuel and coming traffic , you have to know how your strategy is going to work. You won't need to look after traffic if you have ghost penalty. As long as you know you have the pace , you don't have to worry about others having a more efficient tire wear because then you'll have the pace making up for it anyway.