Islam in America

[sumbrownkid]

That's odd that your aunt lives in Bloomfield Hills, it's a predominately a wealthy Jewish community. Most of the Muslim population in the suburbs of Detroit live on the eastside out Sterling Heights, Utica and what not. Obviously Dearborn has a huge Islamic population and you are right, you can find some epic places to eat down there. It's just a shame Dearborn is so run down, it's coming back though which is nice.

I digress, but only slightly. Living in southeast Michigan we have quite a diverse culture, however it's very segregated. Growing up it seemed like I was bombarded with rhetoric that preached you had to be white and protestant. So obviously that's how I grew up thinking. After September 11th I hated Muslims, but it was a lack of understanding.

Once I got to university and started being immersed in a culture that wasn't a bunch of upper-middle class white kids who all believed in Jesus my outlook on the world started to shift. I ended up with a degree in Anthropology even and taking classes like that really opens ones eyes to varying cultures.

Now I'm cool with any race or religion and think you can have whatever views you want, just as long as you don't force them on me. I am willing to learn and even participate in the customs, but only because I want to learn. Being forced into anything just makes me hate it.

I have some good friends who a non-practising Muslims who I met in college and it's been pretty interesting getting to know them and here about how their families view the US (they are from Jordan).

I think that segregation is largely due to wealth/economic power. Then again, people tend to stick with people who share the common culture/religion.

And congrats on getting your anthropology degree.👍 I took a course in introduction to anthropology, and even though it was only a taster of sorts to the field, I was drawn in by all the cultures I was able to learn about, and see how our differences indeed make us similar.

 

[sumbrownkid]

I think there is a solidarity among Muslims that is hard for Americans or Westerners to understand. Americans and Westerners tend to think about Muslims in black and white, or either good or evil, when there is a large area inbetween that is responsible for the thought process of many Muslims. It's very similar to the disconnect between African Americans and white people. Most white people realize that there is some justification to feel guilty about slavery. And at the same time most black people know that the people responsible or who support slavery are not the majority of white people. So everyone just kind of looks at each other funny.

That is one thing, I think, that is severely lacking in American Muslims, and indeed, in the rest of the Muslim world. If there were solidarity amongst us, the middle eastern countries would be unified in every action against America militarily as well as economically (Remember OPEC Embargo of the 70s?)

I have this funny story which actually happened. When I was around 14, I lived in the South West suburbs of Chicago. I was attending Friday prayers at the mosque and the imam said something about it's okay to celebrate Christian holidays with our Christian friends. Then out of nowhere, this guy gets up and starts shouting out to the imam that he is wrong and he doesn't know what he is talking about. Another guy then gets up and yells at the guy yelling at the imam that what he is doing is wrong. So it got pretty heated, until my dad had to stand up and shout out loud at the top of his lungs "Where is our unity brothers!?" Everyone just stopped to look at him.

I shrunk my head as low as I could and pleaded to god to make this less awkward than it already is.

But now that I think about it, my dad had the guts to stand up and ask the question that needed to be asked.

It was still embarrassing though a lot of people pointed and looked at us after prayers were done.

 

[drivehard]

Oh. I guess I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Assalam Alaikum.

I didn't know you were muslim.

Anyhow, people have told me a few funny jokes, and I laughed. There is, even in stereotype jokes, a fine line between funny and insults. Most of the time, they're funny, but sometimes, they are kind of mean. But being middle school, nobody really has a view on things, so I don't take it personally.

Walaikum Salaam.

Lol that's the first time I heard that. I always ask "He's Muslim?" whenever just told me someone famous was Muslim (My mind flipped when my friend told me Mike Tyson is Muslim).

And yeah, middle schoolers in general know more about Ipods and Justin Bieber than real important things. Then again, I think a lot of us adults know more about Ipods and Justin Bieber than real important things.

 

[blaaah]

People use information they already know to make assessments. Because a religious person might be crazy or a nice guy it makes no difference, better to play safe and not talk to the religious guy. Why take the risk. Also it can be too hard to judge, a nice guy might be on the tipping point of madness or be primed to flip out due to some events in the future that are faith based. So just knowing someone is religious is enough warning to just not go there. I feel like that. But I haven't been in a position to test it. I have not knowingly met religious people apart from a few Christians (who don't carry the same risk in my view) and I hated/disapproved their Christian faith but they were/are good friends.
All of what I know on Muslims is from events/news/documentaries and myself absorbing in the strictness of rules and the intolerance of those who do things that are completely against their beliefs. Yeah it scares me, but then a lot of things scare me!
The fact you say you are Muslim but are quite "happy go lucky" to me is fascinating. Perhaps there needs to be a badge designed that says "I'm a relaxed Muslim" so other people can know 👍. But then I would know a group of Muslim of the other sort would put on the badges get on a bus and blow themselves up. There is no answer I can see.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Oh. I guess I don't know what I'm talking about.

All's good man:tup:

Even I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to certain things (life, women, etc...)

 

[sumbrownkid]

People use information they already know to make assessments. Because a religious person might be crazy or a nice guy it makes no difference, better to play safe and not talk to the religious guy. Why take the risk. Also it can be too hard to judge, a nice guy might be on the tipping point of madness or be primed to flip out due to some events in the future that are faith based. So just knowing someone is religious is enough warning to just not go there. I feel like that. But I haven't been in a position to test it. I have not knowingly met religious people apart from a few Christians (who don't carry the same risk in my view) and I hated/disapproved their Christian faith but they were/are good friends.
All of what I know on Muslims is from events/news/documentaries and myself absorbing in the strictness of rules and the intolerance of those who do things that are completely against their beliefs. Yeah it scares me, but then a lot of things scare me!
The fact you say you are Muslim but are quite "happy go lucky" to me is fascinating. Perhaps there needs to be a badge designed that says "I'm a relaxed Muslim" so other people can know . But then I would know a group of Muslim of the other sort would put on the badges get on a bus and blow themselves up. There is no answer I can see.

I would so rock that badge everywhere I go.

"Oh yes ladies...With me you can get happy, and go lucky..."

I'd probably get slapped for that.

But here's one truth guys. If I saw a suspicious guy who decked an Islamic style beard at an airport or any other area that sees major traffic, I'd let security know. If a guy tried to blow up the plane I was on, you can bet that I'm gonna be one of the first people to tackle and beat the crap out of him. I'm not going down without a fight.

 

[nk4e]

I think I see Islam's influence in Central Cal but I haven't had enough experience to make decision but there are just the stories I read from sites, GTP, and BBC. I try not to believe in stereotypes but I am a walking stereotype.

 

[zedextreme8177]

This is what I subscribe to. I, myself, have a beard but its not the hardcore Islamic type, its more of the trimmed Sunglasses model type beard.

And I had no idea Maldives was Islamic.

Maldives probably has the highest %population of Muslims at 99.4%.

Women wear the headscarves more as a fashion statement rather than being religious.

It might seem somewhat ironic to Westerners that our Islamic country relies on tourism for 20% of our GDP. A closet hater would be believing that we have huge oil reserves and large terrorist population

 

[TT3AZ]

The problem is that many people in the US are very hostile against foreign people and other religions, we just have to look at the history of US to see what kind of mentality some people have there. Unfortiunatly many people in online races are very racist towards other nations. I live in sweden and often play in US servers, and people often become racist towards me because im not american. I still belive that poor education and close minded thinking result in racist behavior towards others.

People must also differ between the different groups in islam, I cant say that the wahabis and groups like those represent all muslims. A mater of fact there are many differances between muslim groups.

Also people have to learn the differance between religion and tradition, personal beliefs, etc, etc. Unfortiunatly, people often use religion as a tool to control other people.

The tense situation between the middle east, israel and western countries are rather political than religious.

The so called "islamisation" of europe and america, can also be questioned according to me, and other muslims I know. That is because the islamic leaders that represent islam in western society often want to represent islam in a radical and extreme way. Here in sweden we have many mullahs and imams that want to represent islam, but the problem is that they are very radical in their thinking, and that make the swedes only more hostile against islam. They important question is, what consequences are there for muslims who get represented by local "self made" imams and mullahs? I think we have to se our selves as individuals regardless of faith.


/tt3_az

 

[sumbrownkid]

The problem is that many people in the US are very hostile against foreign people and other religions, we just have to look at the history of US to see what kind of mentality some people have there. Unfortiunatly many people in online races are very racist towards other nations. I live in sweden and often play in US servers, and people often become racist towards me because im not american. I still belive that poor education and close minded thinking result in racist behavior towards others.

People must also differ between the different groups in islam, I cant say that the wahabis and groups like those represent all muslims. A mater of fact there are many differances between muslim groups.

Also people have to learn the differance between religion and tradition, personal beliefs, etc, etc. Unfortiunatly, people often use religion as a tool to control other people.

The tense situation between the middle east, israel and western countries are rather political than religious.

The so called "islamisation" of europe and america, can also be questioned according to me, and other muslims I know. That is because the islamic leaders that represent islam in western society often want to represent islam in a radical and extreme way. Here in sweden we have many mullahs and imams that want to represent islam, but the problem is that they are very radical in their thinking, and that make the swedes only more hostile against islam. They important question is, what consequences are there for muslims who get represented by local "self made" imams and mullahs? I think we have to se our selves as individuals regardless of faith.


/tt3_az

I'm afraid this is going to become the case sooner or later over here in America. But the beauty/curse about America is that, unlike European countries, it always had issues with immigrants/minorities, but yet we manage to forge on ahead with a few bumps along the way. What is really American? I say it's all the Native Americans whose lands were stolen. But that's another argument.

I can't blame the Swedes for starting to reject Islam when it was presented to them in extremist terms and ideology. I wouldn't want to accept Islam either if it was presented to me like that.

For Muslims in America, Sweden is a good classroom to learn the mistakes Muslims have done that helped marginalize themselves to an extent.

And unfortunately, politics is often mixed with religion, and mostly with either bad or deadly results.

Case in point: Obama suspected of being Muslim. If he was, so what? Constitution does not stipulate what religion the President should be. What most people forget over here is that we are a Democracy, not a Theocracy.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Maldives probably has the highest %population of Muslims at 99.4%.

Women wear the headscarves more as a fashion statement rather than being religious.

It might seem somewhat ironic to Westerners that our Islamic country relies on tourism for 20% of our GDP. A closet hater would be believing that we have huge oil reserves and large terrorist population

I read the wiki on you guys, and it sounds like a great vacation spot. Maybe I can hop on a plane to your place whenever I go to India to visit family.👍

I think I see Islam's influence in Central Cal but I haven't had enough experience to make decision but there are just the stories I read from sites, GTP, and BBC. I try not to believe in stereotypes but I am a walking stereotype.

Everyone is a walking stereotype more or less.

 

[TT3AZ]

I can't blame the Swedes for starting to reject Islam when it was presented to them in extremist terms and ideology. I wouldn't want to accept Islam either if it was presented to me like that.

For Muslims in America, Sweden is a good classroom to learn the mistakes Muslims have done that helped marginalize themselves to an extent.

And unfortunately, politics is often mixed with religion, and mostly with either bad or deadly results.

Case in point: Obama suspected of being Muslim. If he was, so what? Constitution does not stipulate what religion the President should be. What most people forget over here is that we are a Democracy, not a Theocracy.

The problem is Sweden is that immigrants that suffer in society chouse to identify them selves as muslims, and use islam as an excuse for their actions and mentality. That according to me is wrong, because many of these people arent really religious, they just want an identity and get respect. In Sweden suburbs there are many islamic centers and many islamic leaders that want to "teach" young muslims about their faith, and unfortiunatly they often preach the radical things about islam. Instead of building bridges with society and other religions, muslim groups etc, they do the opposite. In Sweden there are manny conflicts between immigrants aswell, due to their different mentality and different interpretation of the quran.

Specially in Sweden, many people want an identity, and joining the various islamic groups gives the youths comfort and recognition amongst others. According to me, that can be dangerous due to the "group thinking". Many muslim youths in sweden share the same thaughts about society etc, at least thats what they tell others, and that is becaused they have developed the so called "group thinking". In reality there are some few muslim groups that has the "power" to influence others with their preachings, and the ones that doesnt join them gets abandoned. I get the feeling many youths join islamic groups just because they want recognition and friends etc.

This type of behavior isnt specific to islamic groups, you can see this in every groups that exist. Sweden has many anti-islamic, and anti-immigration groups aswell causing trouble. Everyone in Sweden want to be somebody, and people are willing to sacrifice very much just to get in a "group", thats the root of many problem I think.

 

[sumbrownkid]

^So the age old yearning to be a part of something and not be alone, aka, normal human socialization is in play here.

Unfortunately many of these youths are not taught Islam in an historical sense. Instead of learning the religion through Quran reading and what not, they should be also taught what old Islamic scholars and scientists proscribed and believed in.

I took a medival Islamic history course a year ago, and suffice to say, it really paved the way for me to better understand Islam as a whole.

 

[DK]

I think that education is the best way for both parties to understand each other. Personally, as an agnostic, I don't agree with some Islamic teachings (e.g. no beer or extra-marital sex). As BigYoSpeck previously stated, you can't respect a viewpoint, you can only agree or disagree with it. But you can respect people, and that's what will help both sides. If westerners respect Muslims and vice-versa, then we'll probably have a much happier world. There will always be extremists, but truth be told, every religion has its extremists, not just Islam (*cough* Young Earth Creationists *cough*).

 

[sumbrownkid]

I think that education is the best way for both parties to understand each other. Personally, as an agnostic, I don't agree with some Islamic teachings (e.g. no beer or extra-marital sex). As BigYoSpeck previously stated, you can't respect a viewpoint, you can only agree or disagree with it. But you can respect people, and that's what will help both sides. If westerners respect Muslims and vice-versa, then we'll probably have a much happier world. There will always be extremists, but truth be told, every religion has its extremists, not just Islam (*cough* Young Earth Creationists *cough*).

Never heard of them, are they relatively new?

And yes I wholeheartedly agree, education is one of the most fundamental tools in understanding one another.

 

[Northstar]

Edit: Delete

 

[zedextreme8177]

I can safely say that I've Jihaded the Vettel challenge

I'll have to watch those videos tomorrow as I'm on my iPhone.

One of the worst things that the mainstream media channels did immediately after the 9/11 attacks was to show those Palestinians who celebrated (And we are still not sure if they were celebrating on 9/11). It's effectively a form of flamebaiting which tends to marginalize 2 billion people

There are people who complain that us "moderates" never speak out against the radicals. Guess what, there was a large anti-terrorism protest held in India quite recently. It was all over the front page news on regional channels. Yet when I looked at the BBC, it was on the friggin 10th page

We have spoken out all the time, yet our voice falls on deaf ears.

My main tip is to never watch Fox News

 

[sumbrownkid]

Mashallah on your Jihadding your challenge!

And yeah, I sometimes just can't watch Fox News, or any news for that matter. Makes me all depressed and less intelligent.

I liked the BBC news until I read your post.

 

[zedextreme8177]

Thank you

BBC is not too bad actually, it's a general problem with mainstream media that the terrorists are more "sexy", to put it in a way

Yes, even Al-Jazeera is affected by this "terrorists-first" phenomenon

 

[sumbrownkid]

Thank you

BBC is not too bad actually, it's a general problem with mainstream media that the terrorists are more "sexy", to put it in a way

Yes, even Al-Jazeera is affected by this "terrorists-first" phenomenon

Terrorism has been the media fad for much of the last decade.

Hopefully Justin Bieber can get large enough that he too will be considered a threat to national security.

 

[deadcell96]

Being a muslim myself(asalamu alaykum everyone!), I feel that it's mainly the media's fault why muslims are seen as terrorsts. Just like how its been said probably a hundred times already, if we just learned about each other, things would probably be more peaceful.

 

[TT3AZ]

Being a muslim myself(asalamu alaykum everyone!), I feel that it's mainly the media's fault why muslims are seen as terrorsts. Just like how its been said probably a hundred times already, if we just learned about each other, things would probably be more peaceful.

That is true, but if you get that affected by the media and think that all muslims are terrorists, than you have to educate yourself even more.

It is a paradox here, on one side the media shows islamic extremist activities in the middle east, and on the other side, in Europe specially sweden, the governments are letting the radical imams get to much attention in media, and show how "good" they are. Why is that? Why is that media always want to show these radical types?

Personly I dont see any problem showing islamic radicals on television, if you chouse to get affected, well thats your loss. The real problem is the radicals them selves and there mentality.

Do we have any solution to this problem? Should we ban the news from showing terror activity, or should we try to implement islam in the western societies, so the "white" people accept islam? Well, the western countries has done the last mentioned, and that is letting the local islamists implement islam in which extent they want. Good or bad?

The problems with radical islamism isnt only in the middle east, it is here in western countries also, and its no lie that many european countries "accept, and respect" islam, just because they want to get the islamic peoples votes. You can clearly see the connection between western countries support for dictators in the third world, and western countries made up "respect" for radical leaders in western countries. Then, who will suffer from all this? Well the ordinary people regardless of religion.

Telling you man, in UK, Sweden, Denmark, Germany etc, even as a muslim yourself you can get into trubble with these radicals.

In Sweden they will be searching for 3000 islamic teachers, that will educate pupils about islam, and of course many people are getting happy because they think the "west" finaly has accept islam. But, and there is always a but, what are the consequences of this? What "kind" of islam will they teach the pupils, and most important, who will be the source providing information about islam to these future teachers? Well I think you know the answer already. In sweden, it isnt uncommon for non-muslim swedes to accuse you for not beeing muslim, just because they have seen a program about islam, or know some one that is "very" religious. Thats how bad the situation is in my land.

 

[sumbrownkid]

That is true, but if you get that affected by the media and think that all muslims are terrorists, than you have to educate yourself even more.

It is a paradox here, on one side the media shows islamic extremist activities in the middle east, and on the other side, in Europe specially sweden, the governments are letting the radical imams get to much attention in media, and show how "good" they are. Why is that? Why is that media always want to show these radical types?

Personly I dont see any problem showing islamic radicals on television, if you chouse to get affected, well thats your loss. The real problem is the radicals them selves and there mentality.

Do we have any solution to this problem? Should we ban the news from showing terror activity, or should we try to implement islam in the western societies, so the "white" people accept islam? Well, the western countries has done the last mentioned, and that is letting the local islamists implement islam in which extent they want. Good or bad?

The problems with radical islamism isnt only in the middle east, it is here in western countries also, and its no lie that many european countries "accept, and respect" islam, just because they want to get the islamic peoples votes. You can clearly see the connection between western countries support for dictators in the third world, and western countries made up "respect" for radical leaders in western countries. Then, who will suffer from all this? Well the ordinary people regardless of religion.

Telling you man, in UK, Sweden, Denmark, Germany etc, even as a muslim yourself you can get into trubble with these radicals.

In Sweden they will be searching for 3000 islamic teachers, that will educate pupils about islam, and of course many people are getting happy because they think the "west" finaly has accept islam. But, and there is always a but, what are the consequences of this? What "kind" of islam will they teach the pupils, and most important, who will be the source providing information about islam to these future teachers? Well I think you know the answer already. In sweden, it isnt uncommon for non-muslim swedes to accuse you for not beeing muslim, just because they have seen a program about islam, or know some one that is "very" religious. Thats how bad the situation is in my land.

Wow I had no idea it's that dire in Sweden right now. One of the most obvious reasons why media always show the extremist than the moderates, is well, ratings. Unfortunately showing Islam through terror videos and such is what garners ratings nowadays.

But Muslims don't help the cause either when we are the one's blowing up civilian stuff amongst other things, and posting online videos calling America or the West the evil ones for reasons that are mostly convoluted or contrived.

Edit: That's the first time I ever used the word contrived in a sentence.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Being a muslim myself(asalamu alaykum everyone!), I feel that it's mainly the media's fault why muslims are seen as terrorsts. Just like how its been said probably a hundred times already, if we just learned about each other, things would probably be more peaceful.

Walaikum Salaam, and thanks for contributing!

It's sad how logic as of late has fallen, and people are more willing to judge a group on stereotypes than compassion and more importantly logic.

 

[gogatrs]

Wow, I cannot get over this forum and the way we treat eachother.
There is an occasional argument, but thats usually about a video game.
Back on topic,
I have friends (I'm 14) that are complete rascist basterds.
They're not really my friends, but a lot of the time, this is very hard to ignore in the American public school system.
The media doesn't help either.
All my "friends" are like that because they watch South Park and TV shows like that. I do enjoy watching south park, but some of the stuff, all though it's funny, is down right insulting.
With that being said, without offending anyone, which I really hope I don't do by saying this, but even my grandfather told me, not all Muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists are Muslim.

 

[Azuremen]

The view of Islam in the US, and honestly much of the world that is Christian in origins, is very skewed towards stereotypes. Very few people are familiar with the history of either, and are completely unaware that Islam was historically more tolerant towards other faiths than Catholicism. And Islam honestly helped develop several sciences that would later help the Europeans develop, along with the translation and preservation of the libraries at Madrid (from what I recall)

In modern times, most people tend to see it now through the lens of extremism, because that is what gathers the most attention. Very few people realize it would be much like non-Christians looking at Christians as if they were the Aryan Nations, KKK, or Westboro Baptist Church. But of course Americans don't really look at it this way on average, being that the US was built by Protestants.

Honestly, I think most high schools should offer a Theology course, where they cover the primary religions of the world to help students better understand other faiths. I myself would likely be quite a bit more ignorant of the history if I hadn't done some studies on the Mughal empire and later taken a course on the development of the Middle East. Some amazing elements to the culture, and probably the most beautiful written language in the world with Arabic.

As for practices in the faith of Islam, I do have my qualms. Though I also have issue with most major organized religions at this point. However, Islam does tend to have more discriminatory practices towards women, and some nations have the religious elements too closely tied to their government. In order to progress in the eyes of the modern world, Islam and government must be more separate in those nations. How to do this, I'm not really sure as faith is a complicated matter and further so when the government is based on the doctrines of a faith.

So, those are my thoughts. Average Americans are simply unaware of everything, and education is really the only solution but that will take time. As for myself, I have quite a bit of respect for the contributions through out history to society Islam has made, but currently feel that some nations need to shed elements to advance forward. On a more personal level, I've have no issue with Muslims unless they go fundamentalist on me and want me to look into converting. Hell, I've dated non-practicing Muslim girls before; quite cute I must say sometimes.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[sanmusa]

This should become universal law.

And since you're in the army, I always wanted to know the truth behind the matter that Muslim soldiers get harassed, and in general treated like second fiddles at best. I once thought about joining the military, but my mom said no because they will not look after you if you are Muslim, and will think they will betray them. I was taken aback when she said that because how is it fair that I enjoy all the rights the military protects for us, but yet I can't participate in helping the military achieve that? That also didn't sound Islamic to me.

I say that isn't true at all. The US Army has always championed civil rights, allowing blacks and whites to serve together while the rest of the country was still segregated. I have met a few Muslims in uniform but never heard any complaints from them.

I used to be the Equal Opportunity guy at my unit, we had two Muslims in the 300 man unit, they never had any complaints on that. The only person I ever say genuinely didn't like Muslims in the Army was an Egyptian-born Christian.

I am an atheist and I think there's more prejudice in the Army against non believers than against Muslims.

In the Army we are all green in the end...

 

[blaaah]

It's not just the radical terrorist aspect of the faith,what about honour killings? If I wanted to go out with a nice girl that I found was part of a Muslim family, I would need to call the police and security intelligence to do a back-ground check on them just to see they were not too religious and be a threat to my life or the life of the girl I wanted to go out with. It could be the fault of the media again, but it is presented like honour killings are cultural, traditional and part of the religious law, family members make take their own action or depending on location there will be a gathering/meeting and an appointed judge will determine the fate.
It seems there are rules within the religion that prevent the integration of people in a community, or is that aspect just for crazy fundamentalists? Can Muslims marry and have kids with atheists/other religions?

 

[sumbrownkid]

^That's culture using the pretext of religion.

The Prophet himself abhorred honor killings, and killing of daughters just because they were girls to begin with.

He himself said that those men who raised girls to be educated, strong, and is a good person will have a place beside in Heaven.

And yes a Muslim can marry a person of another faith. But it is the Muslim parent's responsibility to make sure that their child knows about Islam. They can't enforce Islam on them, but they can teach them about it.