Islam - What's your view on it?

[TenEightyOne]

Ah well, I didn't know Islam did karma. Perhaps Allah stirred his finger around in the melee just for fun? He probably never liked soccer anyway.

 

[LeMansAid]

Ah well, I didn't know Islam did karma. Perhaps Allah stirred his finger around in the melee just for fun? He probably never liked soccer anyway.

Islam? Allah? Looks like a terrorism issue to me...... or should I be conflating those things?

 

[TenEightyOne]

Islam? Allah? Looks like a terrorism issue to me...... or should I be conflating those things?

The "suspect package" is one left behind by mistake during the terror drills.

 

[ToyGTone]

Here's a question, where the hell did all of these "Muslims-Arab" stereotypes words came from?

For example, words like "Goat F:censored:er".
I'm confused because it doesn't make any sense at all and yet i see people referring those words to us.

And then there's people saying that we treat women like 🤬 like "she doesn't have education or work or she can't even get out of her house" which's total BS beacuse it's other way around. Actually, women at my age are better at studying (far more caring) than male over here. Women does indeed work and definitely able to go outside.
I don't remember anything about islam that says females aren't allowed to.

 

[TenEightyOne]

For example, words like "Goat F:censored:er".

It's a generic insult. Try being Welsh.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Here's a question, where the hell did all of these "Muslims-Arab" stereotypes words came from?

For example, words like "Goat F:censored:er".
I'm confused because it doesn't make any sense at all and yet i see people referring those words to us.

And then there's people saying that we treat women like 🤬 like "she doesn't have education or work or she can't even get out of her house" which's total BS beacuse it's other way around. Actually, women at my age are better at studying (far more caring) than male over here. Women does indeed work and definitely able to go outside.
I don't remember anything about islam that says females aren't allowed to.

When I was in high school I organized an annual baseball game between the two major ethnic groups, Italians vs. the WASP's. Me being me, I suggested we put "WOP's vs. WASP's Annual Baseball Game" on the poster. One of my Italian friends suggested "WOP's vs. Cakes" and that's what it was for 4 years. Apparently, according to their parents anyway, all we WASP's did was sit around eating cake all day so we were often referred to as "cake eaters" or "cakes" for short. It was news to me and I went right home and complained to my parents that we weren't eating enough cake!

Try distributing that poster in your high school today!

 

[MisterWhiskers]

I'm guessing it has "strength" if it appeals to @MisterWhiskers' agenda.

It's all exceedingly objective. Or no.... wait....... ob.... jectionable. Yes, that's it.

That's not what I meant at all. I meant people like this: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/. These people misinterpret the religion to make it look bad on purpose. I suggest you look into the religion itself before your ob...jection. Also, it doesn't just appeal to me. The religion appeals to 1.5 billion people whom an overwhelming percentage does not look up to for violent use to cover up political issues.

So, in effect, you're saying I shouldn't listen to a word you say.

I said it once and I'll say it again: read up on the religion and then judge how violent it is or whatever. You're clearly trying to smart ass what I tried to say. There are a very low amount of people compared to the overall follower base that use the religion for their own agendas and twist it. However, the overall majority uses it as a guide to life and to live a peaceful life. This is their agenda. This is my agenda. You really don't have to listen to what I say, I'm not forcing you to. I'm simply suggesting that people read up on the religion instead of saying all this bullcrap based on stupid misconceptions and lies from the mass media. That's all I'm saying. Take it however you want to.

 

[Rallywagon]

That's not what I meant at all. I meant people like this: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/. These people misinterpret the religion to make it look bad on purpose. I suggest you look into the religion itself before your ob...jection. Also, it doesn't just appeal to me. The religion appeals to 1.5 billion people whom an overwhelming percentage does not look up to for violent use to cover up political issues.



I said it once and I'll say it again: read up on the religion and then judge how violent it is or whatever. You're clearly trying to smart ass what I tried to say. There are a very low amount of people compared to the overall follower base that use the religion for their own agendas and twist it. However, the overall majority uses it as a guide to life and to live a peaceful life. This is their agenda. This is my agenda. You really don't have to listen to what I say, I'm not forcing you to. I'm simply suggesting that people read up on the religion instead of saying all this bullcrap based on stupid misconceptions and lies from the mass media. That's all I'm saying. Take it however you want to.

Why do you assume those of us whom would rather not follow a religion haven't read the Bible or Quran? I've read several versions of one and am working my way through the other. But that is just a book, and as the saying goes, actions speak louder than words. This is the point of sites like thereligionofpeace.com. To highlight what the followers of so called peaceful religions are actually doing. BTW, I find it really hard, after reading any Bible, to call them peaceful. Most of those texts are far from it.

 

[LeMansAid]

That's not what I meant at all.

Of course it's not what you meant, but it is what you left yourself open to.

There are a very low amount of people compared to the overall follower base that use the religion for their own agendas and twist it.

Violent agendas maybe, but I don't believe for a second that there isn't incredibly widespread abuse of the teachings, where non-violent but still heinous and corrupt practices are justified "creatively". Recognising and addressing all of those lower level and lesser-publicised abuses of the religion is actually the key to finding harmony with other sections of society. When @ECGadget explains for example that the truth is that actually a woman is not only not barred from sexual pleasure, but is even encouraged to experience it, it can act as the kind of information that redresses the perceptions that a lot of people have. You can bang on, spouting "Read it before you bash it" as much as you like, but what people could really do with is more reasonable and trusted voices. If you are not indignant about how Islam's teachings are twisted to control and subjugate people within the context of day to day life (as opposed to just the incidents of much publicised violence) then I doubt you'll be one of those voices.

The pivot point shouldn't be misinterpretations that result in or justify violence, it should be any and all misinterpretations.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I said it once and I'll say it again: read up on the religion and then judge how violent it is or whatever. You're clearly trying to smart ass what I tried to say. There are a very low amount of people compared to the overall follower base that use the religion for their own agendas and twist it. However, the overall majority uses it as a guide to life and to live a peaceful life. This is their agenda. This is my agenda. You really don't have to listen to what I say, I'm not forcing you to. I'm simply suggesting that people read up on the religion instead of saying all this bullcrap based on stupid misconceptions and lies from the mass media. That's all I'm saying. Take it however you want to.

It would serve no purpose for me to read any religious texts. Just on the face of it frankly I think it's ludicrous that anyone believes that the meaning, intent and nuance of something written 1400 years ago could possibly be understood in this day and age or that it has survived literally intact for 14 centuries.

 

[ToyGTone]

Might be NFSW, what's your opinion on the video?

EDIT: My head hurts after seeing this video and i don't even like saudi laws, people nowadays

 

[McLaren]

This popped up today on some local news feeds.

http://wgntv.com/2016/05/28/pakistani-men-can-beat-wives-lightly-islamic-council-says/
The leader of a Pakistani Islamic council has proposed a bill that allows husbands to “lightly beat” their wives as a form of discipline.

In the 75-page proposal, Mohammad Khan Sheerani suggests a light beating is acceptable should the need arise to punish a woman. The proposal bans forceful beating, saying only a small stick is necessary to instill fear.

The Council of Islamic Ideology is a powerful constitutional body that advises the Pakistani legislature whether laws are in line with the teachings of Islam.

Its proposed bill is seen as a response to the rejected Punjab Women Protection bill for abused women. The council shunned it as “un-Islamic” and wrote its own bill, which includes the recommendation for the light beating.

“A husband should be allowed to lightly beat his wife if she defies his commands and refuses to dress up as per his desires; turns down demand of intercourse without any religious excuse or does not take bath after intercourse or menstrual periods,” Pakistan’s Express-Tribune newspaper cited the proposal as saying.

The proposal also calls for a beating if a woman does not wear a hijab, if she interacts with strangers, speaks too loudly or gives others cash without her husband’s permission, according to the newspaper.

It also suggests bans on various activities, including women fighting in wars. But it allows women to participate in politics and become judges, and proposes that the need for a guardian for women of age is not required.

The proposal also says that women should not be permitted to receive non-relatives or foreign officials, and they should not use birth control pills without asking their husbands.

Proposals by the Council of Islamic Ideology are recommendations and are not applicable unless passed by legislators.

How do these people stay in "control" & manage to keep themselves in these positions? I've tried to be a more tolerant to the religion since last participating in the thread, but I still wonder how Muslims who don't want to be associated with extremists don't retaliate or protest against these councils that claim to know what's best for the followers & have an actual impact on the laws?

 

[RacingPanda]

Might be NFSW, what's your opinion on the video?

Well ... at least he got his point across, so he got that going for him. I wouldn't mind just having the facts (by the way, that he used FOX News and Russia Today tells me more than I need to know about him) at hand, without his personal stance on it, though. Not that I mind people giving their two cents on a topic ... but that video crossed not only one, but quite a few lines here. I don't think that he, nor some (I dare say most) of the people supporting him (just check the comments; NSFL) would be any better than the Saudis when given the same amount of power. The world doesn't need more right-wing lunatics trying to "ethnically cleanse humanity", as they like to call their disgusting genocidal fantasies.
He, and people with the same mindset think they're fighting the good fight because they oppose an outdated, totalitarian and fundamentalist system and that everybody who doesn't share said mindset automatically also opposes everything they stand for.
(This is something people seem to struggle with in general though - so remember: Having two (or more) enemies doesn't mean they're all allies.)

I've seen this guy for the first time, and I'll try to make it the last one, too. Just the titles of his videos alone are more than off-putting, to say the least. As a result of not watching more of his videos, I'm not going to pigeonhole him, but let's just say that before I'll like what he stands for, hell will freeze over ...

 

[ToyGTone]

Well ... at least he got his point across, so he got that going for him. I wouldn't mind just having the facts (by the way, that he used FOX News and Russia Today tells me more than I need to know about him) at hand, without his personal stance on it, though. Not that I mind people giving their two cents on a topic ... but that video crossed not only one, but quite a few lines here. I don't think that he, nor some (I dare say most) of the people supporting him (just check the comments; NSFL) would be any better than the Saudis when given the same amount of power. The world doesn't need more right-wing lunatics trying to "ethnically cleanse humanity", as they like to call their disgusting genocidal fantasies.
He, and people with the same mindset think they're fighting the good fight because they oppose an outdated, totalitarian and fundamentalist system and that everybody who doesn't share said mindset automatically also opposes everything they stand for.
(This is something people seem to struggle with in general though - so remember: Having two (or more) enemies doesn't mean they're all allies.)

I've seen this guy for the first time, and I'll try to make it the last one, too. Just the titles of his videos alone are more than off-putting, to say the least. As a result of not watching more of his videos, I'm not going to pigeonhole him, but let's just say that before I'll like what he stands for, hell will freeze over ...

I'm not a religious scholar nether a person who understand what politics is (They look all the same to me) but i'm pretty sure that plenty of them aren't even true. Here's an example that i can definitely talk about since it involves my country (which he also insulted):
At 5:08, he talked about how Saudi Arabia help one of his allies, Bahrain to stop an protest.
What he was talking about was during the time where I actually started to feel unsafe and terrified to the fact I haven't experience anything that bad in my region since I was born.
Do you know why? It's because of the protesters themselves, not because of the cops who didn't know how to control it and had to get help from other GCC country's.

The protesters were shia ( or shiite) and unlike most other protests during the arab-Islamic Spring (who were actually doing non-violent protest because of being sick of the Gov.), this is instead is what I describe a religion war because what they wanted was not just removing the current royal family but also replace it with a shia ruler. Obviously sunni people weren't happy with that.

What they did? Didn't they do a "innocent" protest according to most of the western world?
Let me count how many things they did and affected the whole country as a result:
1. Using Molotov's cocktails, home made weapons, sharp knife...etc
2. Blocking the roads around the region, making everyone not able to move anywhere. My aunt (God bless her soul, passed away in 2014) had to sleep inside her work place because she was near the most chaotic place of those people.
3. Work, Schools and some main hospitals had to be halted. Cause plenty of issues.
4. Food and drinks started to get limited due to number 2 and that the drivers were scared to ship their supply to bahrain.
5. Ruining the public roads and buildings.
6. Brutally injuring the police and even some people for being in the way.
7. People became more hateful between each other, fist fights and possible divorces all because of sunni-shia hate being increased.
8. Some places to this day is still unsafe due to the fact some small protest still going on but in their village only rather than the whole country.

The police couldn't control it, they even had to armor their cars more. They used teargas and so on but it didn't work. They had to call the neighbours (KSA, UAE..etc) to help and so they did. Now what did that guy says about that again? Brutally crushed? Brutally crushed my A hole.

All they did was they told those protesters to leave in a time limit and so they did. They didn't even attack them or anything.

I remember posting about this before:

For what? for executing Nimr al-Nimr? You mean that guy who made me live in fear for months because of that 2011 uprising protests in Bahrain which they claim was just a "friendly protest" when they actually caused all the destruction and chaos. The reasons for schools, work buildings and even hospitals being shut down? The reasons for food supply's being so limited? The reasons for (non participles) citizens not being able to cross the roads because they blocked them with barricades & tyres? and then throw molotov's and burn down the whole places? The reasons for people being attacked for not being "shia's"? The reasons that why we don't feel save as much as before?

Thank god that UAE and Saudi Arabia actually stepped in or else my country will turn into Iraq, Yemen and Syria...in other words, i could be dead.
I'm not against Shia or Sunni... I'm just against who wants to ruin my home.

If Saudi Arabia went down then it could cause huge problems for the whole region. Imagine a war between Daesh and Iran and other country's while ignoring the dying civilians?

 

[mustafur]

Isn't the majority of Muslims in Bahrain actually Shiite?

Also where in Bahrain are you based(the demographic of your location could be a big basis of your experience).

Here's a question, where the hell did all of these "Muslims-Arab" stereotypes words came from?


For example, words like "Goat Fer".

I'm confused because it doesn't make any sense at all and yet i see people referring those words to us.


And then there's people saying that we treat women like like "she doesn't have education or work or she can't even get out of her house" which's total BS beacuse it's other way around. Actually, women at my age are better at studying (far more caring) than male over here. Women does indeed work and definitely able to go outside.

I don't remember anything about islam that says females aren't allowed to.

Bahrain is not the best example to use here as it is basically the most liberalised of known Islam countries(gay marriage is even legal).

Your neighbours on the other hand are another story, Saudi Arabia doesn't even allow women to drive, they are punished in every scenario of a Marital affair even if they are not the ones committing it, they can't go anywhere outside without a 'Mahram' (male guardian), they are not allowed to swim and even enter a Cemetery.

To say these are 'Stereotypes' is ignoring facts.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Isn't the majority of Muslims in Bahrain actually Shiite?

Yes, although the monarchy is Sunni.

 

[mustafur]

Yes, although the monarchy is Sunni.

Which makes me question the reliability of @ToyGTone experience given he is Sunni in support of the Sunni Monarchy.

Not to say he is false, but I can't get an accurate account of the full story when it's one sided testimony.

 

[DK]

@mustafur, Bahrain doesn't have marriage equality, but homosexuality is legal there. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Bahrain

 

[TenEightyOne]

Bahrain is not the best example to use here as it is basically the most liberalised of known Islam countries

I'm not sure about that, what about the countries that have female leaders, for example?

 

[mustafur]

I'm not sure about that, what about the countries that have female leaders, for example?

like?

 

[TenEightyOne]

like?

Pulled off the interwebs, as it were;

Tansu Çiller, elected prime minister of Turkey, 1993-1996

Benazir Bhutto, elected prime minister of Pakistan 1988-1990, 1993-1996

Mame Madior Boye, appointed prime minister of Senegal, 2001-2002.

Megawati Sukarnoputri, elected president of Indonesia, 2001-2004

Khaleda Zia, elected prime minister of Bangladesh, 1991-1996 and 2001-2006

Sheikh Hasina, elected prime minister of Bangladesh 2009-

Roza Otunbayeva, president of Kyrgyzstan, 2010- 2011

Atifete Jahjaga, elected president of Kosovo 2011-

And, of course, that's only those who've been elected leader, there are many parliaments where women are also well-represented.

It may add nothing to your point, I only mention it because a desire for female leadership is often touted as a hallmark of liberalism.

 

[FoRiZon]

Pulled off the interwebs, as it were;



And, of course, that's only those who've been elected leader, there are many parliaments where women are also well-represented.

It may add nothing to your point, I only mention it because a desire for female leadership is often touted as a hallmark of liberalism.

For some countries it may be. Indonesia and some others isnt exactly a muslim country. It make up the majority , but thats like calling UK a Christian country.

Frankly nobody really gives a damn with a woman take seat, atleast in here. Probably a breakthrough in most of middle eastern countries though.

 

[mustafur]

Highly recommend watching this video in full, it Shows how former EDL leader Tommy Robbinson goes through a transition of Complete rejection of Islam to helping make a reformed version that is more consistent with Liberalism.



A good video to watch after relating to the point of reform:

For some countries it may be. Indonesia and some others isnt exactly a muslim country. It make up the majority , but thats like calling UK a Christian country.

Frankly nobody really gives a damn with a woman take seat, atleast in here. Probably a breakthrough in most of middle eastern countries though.

It's a statistical incorrect comparison though, Indonesia is 87% Muslim(keep in mind that the vast majority of non Muslims are from either Bali, West Timor or Papua) and the fact that Indonesia has the highest percentage of surveyed population in the world with Female mutilation of Females under the age of 18, we can say yes they have voting ability's that other Muslim dominant countries don't have but their record on Females is hampered by this alarming statistic.

That statistic by the way is 97.5% female mutilation by Muslim families surveyed.

http://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/PNACU138.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_female_genital_mutilation_by_country

 

[TenEightyOne]

Highly recommend watching this video in full, it Shows how former EDL leader Tommy Robbinson goes through a transition of Complete rejection of Islam to helping make a reformed version that is more consistent with Liberalism.

That's Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, "Tommy Robinson" is a hooligan name he borrows for publicity sometimes.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Hamas Founder's grandson comes out...as Christian...and gay.
A real dilemma for a terrorist organization here, deciding which is worse, gay or Christian. Apparently being Christian is enough to warrant an honour killing.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Hamas Founder's grandson comes out...as Christian...and gay.
A real dilemma for a terrorist organization here, deciding which is worse, gay or Christian. Apparently being Christian is enough to warrant an honour killing.

Now that's going to be a very quiet Christmas dinner.

Oh, wait...

 

[mustafur]

The political ideology strikes again.

 

[FoRiZon]

Hamas Founder's grandson comes out...as Christian...and gay.
A real dilemma for a terrorist organization here, deciding which is worse, gay or Christian. Apparently being Christian is enough to warrant an honour killing.

Oh wow. Shouldn't it be more suitable for ISIS thread, though.

Spoiler

Well i live in a religion where most would regard as villainous. I know that for sure and im not even religious.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Oh wow. Shouldn't it be more suitable for ISIS thread, though.

Spoiler

Well i live in a religion where most would regard as villainous. I know that for sure and im not even religious.

Hamas isn't ISIS though. Didn't see anywhere else it would fit. It's not like honour killings are rare in Islam though.

 

[mustafur]

I'm surprised considering the area he wasn't killed for it, his relation to the power of the country(if you call Palestine one) though probably saved him.