Islam - What's your view on it?
- Thread starter SalmanBH
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- Hammerhead Garage
Speaking as an English teacher, I wouldn't do it at all. In order to properly debate it, students would need an extensive knowledge base, and so the amount of time that I would have to spend setting that up would only distract from class work.
There's that language again - "forced". Why do you assume that they have no say?
- 31,540
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
You're reading it wrong. I mean those who are forced to wear it probably aren't allowed to go to the beach.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
- 31,540
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
Because even you know that it happens. Take off the tinted glasses.
You have seen the videos of women burning their burkas.
Edit
To add to that, I have a friend, a Turkish woman who kicked out her husband and divorced him once he decided that he was the man of the house, and his will was law and that she needed to wear a scarf, because he said so.
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- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
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- Dennisch
Where exactly did I say that it is representative of Islam? Don't put words in my mouth. You don't like it when people do it to you.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
Anything can represent anything.
Perception is key.
For instance we can say this doesn't represent Islam because no where in Quran says this is acceptable, but then the same people can also say even though it says this in the Quran it doesn't mean it represents Islam.
I mean You have Sunnis who say say Shias are not Muslim, and then you have athiests who say Deobandi Fundamentalists don't represent Islam.
Who is to judge?
Perception is key.
For instance we can say this doesn't represent Islam because no where in Quran says this is acceptable, but then the same people can also say even though it says this in the Quran it doesn't mean it represents Islam.
I mean You have Sunnis who say say Shias are not Muslim, and then you have athiests who say Deobandi Fundamentalists don't represent Islam.
Who is to judge?
DLR_Mysterion
(Banned)
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- United Kingdom
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- Hammerhead Garage
You mean the place under the control of a radicalised minority?
Again, not representative of Islam. Which is a problem, because Dennisch's comment implied that all Muslim women needed to be freed from the burqa as a symbol of Islam, and yet the only examples that we have been able to come up with are women living under oppressive, radicalised regimes.
- 31,540
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
Stop talking out of your goddamn lying ass.
Apparently you have trouble reading even after I told you that you misread it.
Where did I say ALL Muslim women?
Edit.
Don't bother responding to me anymore. I'm done with your better than everyone attitude. I'm sick of your comments here.
Say hello to my ignore list. You're the first one.
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
What represents Islam?
Different sects of Islam is mainly centred around interpretation of the same thing but with different meaning, who is to say what represents islam, if they all claim to.
A better statement would be Not representative of Muslims as Muslims are free thinkers, Islam is a doctrine.
DLR_Mysterion
(Banned)
- 365
- United Kingdom
....Dennisch never said it was representative. He never even hinted that it was, he said that it happens, which even according to you it does.
- 11,637
- Intercourse, PA
- Carbonox
In @prisonermonkeys' fantasy world, anything that makes Islam look bad doesn't truly represent it.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
When you didn't bother to make the distinction as to who was forced to wear a burqa. You just said "the women forced to wear something like a Burka", which implies that all women who wear a burqa are forced to do so.
And I think your attitude inflicts far more evil on the world than the evil you think it saves people from.
But what would I know? I'm just a guy who wants to believe that people are generally capable of good. I would rather believe that and occasionally be disappointed by people than to take so cynical a view as to assume the worst in everyone and then say "I told you so" when I am proven right.
I'm not sure what I am supposed to be feeling about this. Shame? Embarrassment? Really all I feel is pity because you clearly cannot tolerate the idea that someone might think differently to you. But then I just feel bilious because you'll freely criticise and condemn others, but you can't take it when someone challenges the version of events that you have told yourself is true.
So really what I feel is pride because you just revealed yourself to be the hypocrite that you are and all I had to do was stick to my principles.
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- 31,540
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
One last time then.
@prisonermonkeys
You're so delusional in your thoughts, I gave you the explanation of what I meant and you either don't understand it or you're just ignoring it to have your cause and train of thoughts justified.
There is no point discussing topics like this with you seeing how you try to spin it so that it fits your opinion.
You can feel pity for me, but please don't. I can live my life with my Muslim inlaws, neighbours and friends perfectly fine. You can live your life twisting words and seeing things that nobody else sees.
@prisonermonkeys
You're so delusional in your thoughts, I gave you the explanation of what I meant and you either don't understand it or you're just ignoring it to have your cause and train of thoughts justified.
There is no point discussing topics like this with you seeing how you try to spin it so that it fits your opinion.
You can feel pity for me, but please don't. I can live my life with my Muslim inlaws, neighbours and friends perfectly fine. You can live your life twisting words and seeing things that nobody else sees.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
You mean this?
Which was no clarification at all. I asked you for an example, and the best that you could come up with was a generalisation:
Followed by an anecdote:
Neither of which are passable as evidence.
Looking back at your original post, you associate the burqa with a symbol of oppression. Since you never went any further than that, the implication of your statement was that anybody who wears the burqa is a victim of oppression. However, in the context of the French court ruling, the burqa is a symbol of Islam; therefore, your comments imply that Islam is oppressive.
At this point, I asked you for a specific example of women burning burqas. I myself cited the only example that I had seen, which was in Afghanistan. Since the Taliban selectively practiced a mix of Islam and archaic tribal customs, it was no clear what the burning of the burqas was a response to - Islam or the Taliban, and since the Taliban are not representative of Islam, I don't think that you could make the case that they were burning burqas because they were free of Islam, thus pointing out the problem with implying that Islam is oppressive because the burqa is oppressive.
It's at this point that you went on the offensive. To be clear: you never bothered to make it clear what you were referring to, provided fallacious evidence when prompted to substantiate your comments, and then threw a tantrum when I didn't take your word for it.
Joel
Premium
- 8,141
- Halifax, NS
- Noob616
You are really reaching here. Let's start with the underlying context of the ban. The mayor of Cannes justifies the ban on the grounds of defending public order. He claims the burkini is a "symbol of Islamic extremism", and believes that women wearing burkinis on the beach in the wake of terror attacks in France could lead to fights because of this supposed link between the burkini and the burka as a symbol of Islamic extremists. The mayor isn't just painting the burkini as a symbol of Islam in general, but as a symbol of Islamic extremism.
Dennisch said he felt the ban on burkins was misguided because "those who are forced to wear [a burka] probably aren't allowed to go to the beach". Nowhere is it said or implied that muslim women being forced to wear burkas is widespread, nor is it said or implied that all muslim women who wear a burka are forced to wear them, and nowhere did Dennisch say that burkas are representative of all muslims or of Islam in general. Setting aside the debate on whether or not the burka is a symbol of Islamist oppression, even if we suppose that the burka is a symbol of Islam or oppression, it is highly unlikely that women who live in an oppressive household and are forced to wear the burka would be allowed to go to a public beach in a burkini.
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- 1,300
- CZE
- novcze
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
A double edged sword. Glad to finally see him in jail, but given the huge issues the U.K. has in radicalized prison populations it could well turn out to be worse to have him in prison surrounded by angry people who support his cause who are trapped and can't get away from his influence.
Well good. I hope others who teach radicalism should be banned. I never liked an idea of religious politics in the first place.
However
Do you mean Quran? If I take your post on the face value, then what? Converting him to "right" religion is a good way?
That's sounds wrong, small chance of happening, and I doubt it'll solve the issue as a whole.
