Islam - What's your view on it?

[Scaff]

Daily Mail forced to issue correction after they make up pretty much everything in an article (about Muslims - how surprising ng of the Mail).

https://evolvepolitics.com/daily-ma...zvwe7UAHg2B5_sFjGHd7L-P-oS-IvpmdAEBxrcecEu54M

 

[LeMansAid]

Hey, it's a tough choice. Far right vs. worshipping an imaginary man in the sky.

Far right vs. far wrong?

 

[UKMikey]

Far right vs. far wrong?

Perhaps, if you don't believe that the far right is also wrong.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Far right vs. far wrong?

I can dig it. Well done 👍👍

 

[mustafur]

https://amp.heraldsun.com.au/news/w...m/news-story/5263b2e6aecf084ad094d547e4df6804

Unclear if it was sectarian violence(Sunni on Shia) or mental health issue, but that is scary that a human can do that.

 

[TenEightyOne]

https://amp.heraldsun.com.au/news/w...m/news-story/5263b2e6aecf084ad094d547e4df6804

Unclear if it was sectarian violence(Sunni on Shia) or mental health issue, but that is scary that a human can do that.

At face value the sectarian issue was an excuse for the kind of horrific, murderous arsehole-ishness that was going to come out somehow. If it wasn't religion it would have been something equally unjustifiable.

 

[Betty blue]

https://amp.heraldsun.com.au/news/w...m/news-story/5263b2e6aecf084ad094d547e4df6804

Unclear if it was sectarian violence(Sunni on Shia) or mental health issue, but that is scary that a human can do that.

This is horrifying! Reports says that the killer have mental issues, but he could be extremist who knows. This is hardly about sectarianism, tention or violence between Sunnies or Shia and it is likely that it's all about the killer himself. I live about 10 minutes away from where this kid is from, and I'm sunni and planning to visit the family to pay my respect for their loss. The killing was in the western province though.

 

[SestoScudo]

This is murder but I dont believe he killed the kid because his a shia.

If the man had extremist undertones he would most likely done it on shia gatherings or where shias are instead of killing some kid who happens to be a shia.

 

[FoRiZon]

Lmao glad it's limited to Saudi Arabia.

https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/...ire-for-hosting-saudi-app-for-tracking-women/

 

[Mr Tree]

Lmao glad it's limited to Saudi Arabia.

https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/...ire-for-hosting-saudi-app-for-tracking-women/

Wow what piece of **** uses this app

 

[Dotini]

Saudi Arabia and China are dedicated to abusing human rights, and AppleGoogle are dedicated to supporting them and making it work. Your phone is trying as hard as it can to listen to you. And most of us don't give a rip, proof this is the world that we really do want.

 

[Betty blue]

Lmao glad it's limited to Saudi Arabia.

https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/...ire-for-hosting-saudi-app-for-tracking-women/

One of the dumbest articles I have ever read for a while! And I'm actually surprised about how much stupid people are there to believe whatever being written!

Obviously SA is very controversial country, and its running under hot water politically these days, some of which is justified others are nonsense . So I'm not surprised to see some politically influenced writing that are far from reality.

However, for starters this site has been there for years, and it's not for tracking women!! This is site is used to facilitate access or handling to all of your governmental matters, businesses, real estates and many other things.

No one is required to have anyone with him / her to open up a bank account wtf is that guy is smoking! And no one can deny anyone from traveling just like that! She or anyone can sue him for that.

This was exaggeration. However, yes there are a lot of abusive messed up people and there are indeed a lot of things that need to be changed or altered, and we do want some changes just like many other things in many countries, we don't deny that, but why the emphasis on SA? Or pretending that life is perfection else where? There are a lot of good thing in SA, and there are other countries and GCC's are having similar life style and issues.

 

[TenEightyOne]

However, for starters this site has been there for years, and it's not for tracking women!! This is site is used to facilitate access or handling to all of your governmental matters, businesses, real estates and many other things.

The description of the app from the National Security Centre includes the note that you can use it track family or worker's services. All services conducted through Absher (banking, passport permission, governmental e-services) are location logged and reported to the main account holder. Rather like a bank account the holders are usually patriarchs.

Being honest, being absolutely honest, do you think it's possible that a male head-of-family could track his wife through her use of Absher on her own device?

 

[Betty blue]

The description of the app from the National Security Centre includes the note that you can use it track family or worker's services. All services conducted through Absher (banking, passport permission, governmental e-services) are location logged and reported to the main account holder. Rather like a bank account the holders are usually patriarchs.

Being honest, being absolutely honest, do you think it's possible that a male head-of-family could track his wife through her use of Absher on her own device?

You need her permission and consent to gain access to track & view these services and her medical records if she has an absher account.

And No, personally I don't think that a male should track and view any of his wife's activities without her approval. I haven't used it or asked my wife for it and that is her right!

 

[TenEightyOne]

You need her permission and consent to gain access to track & view these services and her medical records if she has an absher account.

My understanding is that the consent is held by the main account holder, labourers and family sub-members are under that permission. So no, that wouldn't necessarily be the case.

And No, personally I don't think that a male should track and view any of his wife's activities without her approval. I haven't used it or asked my wife for it and that is her right!

I didn't ask if you thought he should, I asked if you agreed it was possible. SSC member Sheikh Abdullah Al-Manea believes that travelling without male consent is impermissible, and a Colonel from the Passports Directorate seems to agree.

Col. Ma’la Al-Otaibi, spokesman of the Passports Directorate of the Eastern Province, said that when the husband’s name is added to the family card, it shows that he is the wife’s guardian and not the father. Therefore, it is mandatory for a married woman to get permission from her husband if she is traveling with her father. He said that the facility of getting travel permits is available on the Absher services of Jawazat.
Responding to a question on Twitter, the Passports Directorate said that if a woman is registered in the records of her husband, then the husband’s permission is mandatory.

I accept that this isn't how you want the world to see Absher but you've got a long way to go to convince me that Absher isn't being used as a modern-day tool to diminish rights. I'm not saying it's causing the problem but it seems to be providing technology to further its enablement.

 

[Betty blue]

My understanding is that the consent is held by the main account holder, labourers and family sub-members are under that permission. So no, that wouldn't necessarily be the case.

You can request an authorization from any of your adult dependents " Male / Female " to gain full access to their profile, without an approval from their side you can do nothing.

I didn't ask if you thought he should, I asked if you agreed it was possible. SSC member Sheikh Abdullah Al-Manea believes that travelling without male consent is impermissible, and a Colonel from the Passports Directorate seems to agree.

No, it's not possible to track her use of the site. That's not right.

Just to clarify a little point here... The guardian doesn't grant permission for traveling, she / he can go wherever they want once they have a passport, that's by default. However he can submit blocking for that person but it has to be justified.

I accept that this isn't how you want the world to see Absher but you've got a long way to go to convince me that Absher isn't being used as a modern-day tool to diminish rights. I'm not saying it's causing the problem but it seems to be providing technology to further its enablement.

It's correct, it can be used to mess up some people's lives, but that’s uncommon. Not to the extent that some media are presenting.

 

[Mr Tree]

Just to clarify a little point here... The guardian doesn't grant permission for traveling, she / he can go wherever they want once they have a passport, that's by default. However he can submit blocking for that person but it has to be justified.

2 issues
1 why would an adult woman need a guardian? People figured out this is insane centuries ago (which still was way to late but by now everyone should understand a woman is an adult individual that's part of society not some possession that.needs a guardian).

2 how can you ever justify having this power over 1 person soley based on gender/age. We're talking about people not some object.

t's correct, it can be used to mess up some people's lives, but that’s uncommon. Not to the extent that some media are presenting.

If it can shouldn't it remove the features that make it possible to use it that way. And certzinly since those features add nothing usefull to the app but control over an other person be it through information or actual interferrence.



In your first post about this you asked why SA is so often part of our critique. My opinion on why is this, we the western world are allied with SA. We also want to make the world believe we uphold human rights. Ever since the internet we can see what **** our 'allies' do that are in conflict with those human rights. So our governments and media are more obliged to point out the misdoings of our friends as we can't call ourselfs the good guys if our allies breach the human rights on a regular basis.

You are not allowed to come out as an atheist. If I'm correct homosexuality is still.illegal. woman need guardians (cause wut?). How your country fights the war with Jemen has me questioning which party to vote for as our country still supplies weapons to pieces of **** who think it's ok to bomb schools and hospitals.
A lot of belgian foreign fighters for IS became radicalised going to SA funded mosques. So your government funds the people we fight and still we wonder why this fight continues. Strange right is we supply weapons to SA and after a few days see terrorist groups fight our soldiers with pur weapons.
There still is a lot wrong with SA compared to a lot of other countries.

Yes this post is a bit harsh but I'm allergic to acting as if the problems aren't that large when they clearly are.

 

[Betty blue]

2 issues
1 why would an adult woman need a guardian? People figured out this is insane centuries ago (which still was way to late but by now everyone should understand a woman is an adult individual that's part of society not some possession that.needs a guardian).

2 how can you ever justify having this power over 1 person soley based on gender/age. We're talking about people not some object.

First of all women are not objects! There could be some incorrect implementation of religious beliefs, but the point is that most of that is about their safety. While I admit that somethings need to be loosen a bit, and a lot of things are changing, but the fact remains that SA is probably one of the safest countries for women. Just compare how many sexual assaults or rape cases in your country and how many in SA! Women can go anywhere and do whatever they wish in the middle of night with an absolute safety about getting sexually assaulted. You can't say the same in Europe or the US can you?

If it can shouldn't it remove the features that make it possible to use it that way. And certzinly since those features add nothing usefull to the app but control over an other person be it through information or actual interferrence.

As I said earlier, an authorization should be made if you are to control or see what the other person is doing. The only way to get full access for an adult dependent without their acknowledgement is if they don't have an account, which usually happens in a more conservative families where women mostly unaware if these things or for not getting involved and let the guardian do everything.

In your first post about this you asked why SA is so often part of our critique. My opinion on why is this, we the western world are allied with SA. We also want to make the world believe we uphold human rights. Ever since the internet we can see what **** our 'allies' do that are in conflict with those human rights. So our governments and media are more obliged to point out the misdoings of our friends as we can't call ourselfs the good guys if our allies breach the human rights on a regular basis.

You are not allowed to come out as an atheist. If I'm correct homosexuality is still.illegal. woman need guardians (cause wut?). How your country fights the war with Jemen has me questioning which party to vote for as our country still supplies weapons to pieces of **** who think it's ok to bomb schools and hospitals.
A lot of belgian foreign fighters for IS became radicalised going to SA funded mosques. So your government funds the people we fight and still we wonder why this fight continues. Strange right is we supply weapons to SA and after a few days see terrorist groups fight our soldiers with pur weapons.
There still is a lot wrong with SA compared to a lot of other countries.

Yes this post is a bit harsh but I'm allergic to acting as if the problems aren't that large when they clearly are.

Fair enough. Look.... I respect your opinion, and I really do agree with you in some of the points you mentioned. But please... Spare me the contradiction about human rights, because there are a lot of breaches and wrong doings in human rights in western countries as well. Homosexuality is illegal in most countries, so I'm not getting your opinion about human rights in that regard! What about innocent people in Iraq or Afghanistan? Abu Ghraib prison? Why invading them at all?

In Yemen we are getting militias backed by Iran and they are armed with weapons and missiles and launch them at our southern borders! They are recruiting children and use them as human shields! Yes there were few operational mistakes in Yemen that led to civilian catualties and the government has admitted that, but the point is that we can't have these radical groups at our southern borders! The middle east is too destabilized for another militia! I don't agree with what's happening in Yemen and that's my opinion, but to extent I can see the political point of view.

 

[Scaff]

Fair enough. Look.... I respect your opinion, and I really do agree with you in some of the points you mentioned. But please... Spare me the contradiction about human rights, because there are a lot of breaches and wrong doings in human rights in western countries as well. Homosexuality is illegal in most countries, so I'm not getting your opinion about human rights in that regard! What about innocent people in Iraq or Afghanistan? Abu Ghraib prison? Why invading them at all?

Sorry, but could you list the European countries that still have the death penalty, in which homosexuality is illegal and in which atheism is illegal?

 

[mustafur]

However he can submit blocking for that person but it has to be justified.

Explain to me what that means?

It's just that what might be justified in my Country(Australia) is likely to be different to a country that thinks it's justified to behead people in the public square for crimes that are not even crimes in Australia.

 

[Betty blue]

Sorry, but could you list the European countries that still have the death penalty, in which homosexuality is illegal and in which atheism is illegal?

I'm sorry but you are putting words I never said! I said that homosexuality is illegal in most countries, I didn't say death penalty is carried out in European countries that consider homosexuality is illegal nor in atheism. Btw there's more homosexuality in SA than you might think, and the death penalty is not being sentenced in SA for that anymore, that was in the past and with specific conditions. Last known case for homosexuality they were sentenced 5 years in prison.

Explain to me what that means?

It means that there are terms and conditions is to be met if the travel blocking is to be approved. It's not like the guardian can block anyone from traveling whenever he wish for no reason! She can sue him for that and she will win!

 

[Scaff]

I'm sorry but you are putting words I never said!

And you are engaging in utter 'whatoutism', I thought you would be up for a comparison between the area you show in your location and the one being discussed. However feel free to keep in on that topic, please list all of the countries which still carry the death penalty for homosexuality (regardless of if its currently used).

I said that homosexuality is illegal in most countries,

And that makes its continued illegality and threat of the death penalty in Saudi valid for what reason?

I didn't say death penalty is carried out in European countries that consider homosexuality is illegal nor in atheism.

I didn't say you did.

Btw there's more homosexuality in SA than you might think, and the death penalty is not being sentenced in SA for that anymore, that was in the past and with specific conditions.

The amount of homosexuality in Saudi is going to be pretty much the same as the amount in any country, given that making 100% natural human activity illegal doesn't make it go away at all (what a surprise).

Last known case for homosexuality they were sentenced 5 years in prison.

That makes it so much better!!!

Really you're using 'we don't kill them any more, we just lock 'em up' as a moral defense for a clear human rights abuse.

It means that there are terms and conditions is to be met if the travel blocking is to be approved. It's not like the guardian can block anyone from traveling whenever he wish for no reason! She can sue him for that and she will win!

People shouldn't need to sue to be able to travel freely, the ability to travel freely should be a given.

While I admit that somethings need to be loosen a bit, and a lot of things are changing, but the fact remains that SA is probably one of the safest countries for women. Just compare how many sexual assaults or rape cases in your country and how many in SA! Women can go anywhere and do whatever they wish in the middle of night with an absolute safety about getting sexually assaulted. You can't say the same in Europe or the US can you?

I had to come back to this, because quite frankly this is so dishonest that its bordering on an outright lie.

First off Saudi has no prohibition against Marital or Statutory rape, as such that's a massive number of rapes that are not even considered criminal at all. You then have the fact that a significant number of rape victims will be sentenced for adulatory or sex outside marriage, and punished as such, for being raped, a fact that has a massive impact on the number of reported cases. What about the fact that he standard of evidence is massively stacked in favour of the defendant.

Add in that should women speak out about this, then they face the very real prospect of being arrested and tortured for simply wanting the same rights as the rest of the population.

This case alone....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatif_rape_case

...sheds light onto everything I've mentioned above and the utter fantasy you seem to be living in with regard to this.

If a country refuses to acknowledge most forms of a certain crime, makes it as hard as possible to be found guilty for the remaining forms of that crime and also punishes the victims of that crime, then its crime rates for that crime being low should neither be a surprise or to be blunt considered remotely honest or accurate.

 

[Mr Tree]

First of all women are not objects! There could be some incorrect implementation of religious beliefs, but the point is that most of that is about their safety. While I admit that somethings need to be loosen a bit, and a lot of things are changing, but the fact remains that SA is probably one of the safest countries for women. Just compare how many sexual assaults or rape cases in your country and how many in SA! Women can go anywhere and do whatever they wish in the middle of night with an absolute safety about getting sexually assaulted. You can't say the same in Europe or the US can you?

@Scaff replied to this in a more elaborate way then I'd ever could, I just wanted to add 1 question to you.
If woman are not objects of their fathers/husbands, then why do they need a guardian?

As I said earlier, an authorization should be made if you are to control or see what the other person is doing. The only way to get full access for an adult dependent without their acknowledgement is if they don't have an account, which usually happens in a more conservative families where women mostly unaware if these things or for not getting involved and let the guardian do everything.

Again why not remove the possibility of people using the app in this way? Is it because that was a feature rather than an oversight?

Fair enough. Look.... I respect your opinion, and I really do agree with you in some of the points you mentioned. But please... Spare me the contradiction about human rights, because there are a lot of breaches and wrong doings in human rights in western countries as well.

What contradiction? Where did I say we're free of blame? That's the thong I'm not willing to excuse my country's issues because others do so. You asked me why SA gets more flak well because of the enormous list of which I just listed a few.
My country brakes human rights by living conditions in prison. It also break the the human rights when they lock up immigrant families with underage children for return to their home country. A country some of those kids have never been as they were born in Belgium. No worries I agree the west has ot's issues. SA just goes beyond even that.

So no I will kot spare you this **** about human rights as I don't spare my own country from that critisism.

Homosexuality is illegal in most countries, so I'm not getting your opinion about human rights in that regard! What about innocent people in Iraq or Afghanistan? Abu Ghraib prison? Why invading them at all?

It's not illegal in most western countries. Opinion? Your country locks people up for being who they are...

Ow and.our.interventions in Irak afghanistan, syria,... I opposed those I think my government is wrong in doing so and those parties never got my vote feel free to judge them I'll probably agree with youn

Yemen we are getting militias backed by Iran and they are armed with weapons and missiles and launch them at our southern borders! They are recruiting children and use them as human shields!

Don't care human shield is an effective tactoc then you don't target civilians, ..., ever.

Yes there were few operational mistakes in Yemen that led to civilian catualties and the government has admitted that, but the point is that we can't have these radical groups at our southern borders! The middle east is too destabilized for another militia! I don't agree with what's happening in Yemen and that's my opinion, but to extent I can see the political point of view.

Still don't care we don't want radical idiots in our borders yet SA funded mosques achieve exactlty that. Should be start bombing ypyr cities? Your government is just using you as a human shield so we'd be justified to no?

Btw there's more homosexuality in SA than you might think, and the death penalty is not being sentenced in SA for that anymore, that was in the past and with specific conditions. Last known case for homosexuality they were sentenced 5 years in prison.

Ow it's ok they're just locked up...
Why would it ever be ok to lock someone up for his sexuality?

It means that there are terms and conditions is to be met if the travel blocking is to be approved. It's not like the guardian can block anyone from traveling whenever he wish for no reason! She can sue him for that and she will win!

Why is there need for a guardian? What reason cpuld there be to block the travel of someone? Answer tjose and you might get some understanding currently not much I'm sorry.

 

[Betty blue]

Again guys... You are taking my words out of content!

First of all.. I was clarifying misunderstood matters in terms of the use of the app or penalties, I was not defending anything, and I think that I have expressed many times that not everything is handled as it should. Yet you still disregard what I'm trying to say!

Second of all... I'm surprised why would you think that the only correct approach is the western approach at everything and you are trying so hard to prove that! We share different religions, traditions and beliefs. So what you might consider your right like homosexuality, others ( with their different religions and beliefs) have it as indecency and religiously forbidden to practice that or express that in public! And that's not only in SA! After all homosexuality is sexual preference not human nature!


Finally .. It's actually an outright lie & fantasy to say that SA has no prohibiting laws about rape or women protection! That's so uninformed!! This is one of few granted beheading sentence. Facts, statistics and reports tell you about the safety of women from sexual assault in SA. There could be few cases here and there, it's not perfect. But it's hundreds or could be thousands less than your country.

 

[Scaff]

Second of all... I'm surprised why would you think that the only correct approach is the western approach at everything and you are trying so hard to prove that! We share different religions, traditions and beliefs. So what you might consider your right like homosexuality, others ( with their different religions and beliefs) have it as indecency and religiously forbidden to practice that or express that in public! And that's not only in SA! After all homosexuality is sexual preference not human nature!

Utterly and completely wrong.

Finally .. It's actually an outright lie & fantasy to say that SA has no prohibiting laws about rape or women protection! That's so uninformed!! This is one of few granted beheading sentence. Facts, statistics and reports tell you about the safety of women from sexual assault in SA. There could be few cases here and there, it's not perfect. But it's hundreds or could be thousands less than your country.

Way to ignore reality.

 

[Mr Tree]

Second of all... I'm surprised why would you think that the only correct approach is the western approach at everything and you are trying so hard to prove that! We share different religions, traditions and beliefs. So what you might consider your right like homosexuality, others ( with their different religions and beliefs) have it as indecency and religiously forbidden to practice that or express that in public! And that's not only in SA! After all homosexuality is sexual preference not human nature!

I just critisised parts of the western approach. I didn't say our way is the way. I say SA ways are worse.

Homosexuality is nature, this is not religion or belief... this is what it is, homosexuality is found in other animals too. And I which the SA, Iran, ugandan,.... piece of **** ways that prohibit people from being themselfs go the way of the dodo. I can live with you disapproving homosexuality based on something as subjective as religion, I can't accept you defending your belief that it's ok to force your belief onto others effectively making them live a misserable life.

Finally .. It's actually an outright lie & fantasy to say that SA has no prohibiting laws about rape or women protection! That's so uninformed!! This is one of few granted beheading sentence. Facts, statistics and reports tell you about the safety of women from sexual assault in SA. There could be few cases here and there, it's not perfect. But it's hundreds or could be thousands less than your country.

Ok if your wife doesn't want to have sex and you do. If you then have sex with her (in effect force her) is that rape to you?

If the answer is no you bettet think about that a long time.

And for a more respectfull discourse from my end I request you to be honnest and don't apply whatabouterism. I'd also like you to ask what my beliefs are instead of assuming what it is.

Edit: on your last paragraph I wanted to add this, there are a lot of dictators ruling 'democrating' nations. They always get 90%+ votes.
Can you understand now what we see when you say we have a lower crimerate against woman then you?

A lot of things that you deem ok, if you do that with my girlfriend we have a serious issue.

 

[Betty blue]

I just critisised parts of the western approach. I didn't say our way is the way. I say SA ways are worse.

Homosexuality is nature, this is not religion or belief... this is what it is, homosexuality is found in other animals too. And I which the SA, Iran, ugandan,.... piece of **** ways that prohibit people from being themselfs go the way of the dodo. I can live with you disapproving homosexuality based on something as subjective as religion, I can't accept you defending your belief that it's ok to force your belief onto others effectively making them live a misserable life.

You say that you can't accept me to force my beliefs into others. But you expect me to accept others forcing their beliefs on me?

You force your opinion when say homosexuality is nature, while I say it's sexual preference because it is not biologically possible to reproduce as in (Male /Female). If you can convince me otherwise then I will admit that it's a human nature.

The guy in the post before forcing his biased beliefs when saying that I'm ignoring reality and that there's no law or protection to women in SA? Is that acceptable? And that is coming from a person who is likely never been in SA or will ever visit it to a person who lives there and have a wife, friends and relatives.

Ok if your wife doesn't want to have sex and you do. If you then have sex with her (in effect force her) is that rape to you?

If the answer is no you bettet think about that a long time.

What!! Who on earth do you think we are??

If my wife doesn't want to have sex with me I'm not going to force myself into her. Yes that's a rape.

Clearly I can say that you have a huge misunderstanding about how we live here.

A lot of things that you deem ok, if you do that with my girlfriend we have a serious issue.

Why do you think that we always force females in doing what they don't want to do? That's stereotype is not true. I'm not denying its existence in some more conservative places, but females are a lot more empowered than what you clearly think.

 

[FoRiZon]

Delete

 

[Scaff]

You say that you can't accept me to force my beliefs into others. But you expect me to accept others forcing their beliefs on me?

You force your opinion when say homosexuality is nature, while I say it's sexual preference because it is not biologically possible to reproduce as in (Male /Female). If you can convince me otherwise then I will admit that it's a human nature.

The guy in the post before forcing his biased beliefs when saying that I'm ignoring reality and that there's no law or protection to women in SA? Is that acceptable? And that is coming from a person who is likely never been in SA or will ever visit it to a person who lives there and have a wife, friends and relatives.



What!! Who on earth do you think we are??

If my wife doesn't want to have sex with me I'm not going to force myself into her. Yes that's a rape.

Clearly I can say that you have a huge misunderstanding about how we live here.


Why do you think that we always force females in doing what they don't want to do? That's stereotype is not true. I'm not denying its existence in some more conservative places, but females are a lot more empowered than what you clearly think.

If it's a preference then please explain why a very large number of animal species are also homosexual?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

That its natural isn't an opinion, its a scientific fact.

 

[Betty blue]

If it's a preference then please explain why a very large number of animal species are also homosexual?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

That its natural isn't an opinion, its a scientific fact.

If those animals have the ability and can reproduce and exist by being homosexual, then that's its nature. But it's impossible for us to exist by being homosexual.