Islam - What's your view on it?

[Scaff]

But I've always argued that, even recently in this thread. The difference is there hasn't been as much pushback as there is with the views on violence. I can only respond to what's posted by others....

Your posting history tells a very different story.

There definitely were times where armies marched in the name of God in the Old Testament, but Christianity's founder never had such an army. After Jesus's death Christians were persecuted until they were accepted by the Romans at which point they turned into the persecutors.

Oh dear.

Im talking about the founder of Judaism, you know the supposed origin of which Christianity takes as its own origin story in the OT.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Oh dear.

Im talking about the founder of Judaism, you know the supposed origin of which Christianity takes as its own origin story in the OT.

But they weren't early Christians....

 

[UKMikey]

But they weren't early Christians....

But Christianity takes it as its own origin story in the OT.

https://danielmiessler.com/blog/no-...e-did-the-opposite-and-heres-what-that-means/

 

[Scaff]

But they weren't early Christians....

When on earth did I claim they were?

You asked for any other faith in which it’s founder lead people into battle (the inference being that it’s unique to Islam), I gave you an example, and quite a blood thirsty one at that.

At no time did I claim it was Christianity, but it certainly is part of Christianity’s back story.

 

[Biggles]

As I understand it, this is why the teachings of Jesus are considered so revolutionary. He went beyond the "Golden Rule', which has been common to a lot of religions. From the Sermon on the Mount:

"You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."

(Matthew 5:38–42)

In practice, this doesn't seem to be a teaching that has been much observed in the subsequent history of institutionalized Christianity.

 

[BobK]

You asked for any other faith in which it’s founder lead people into battle (the inference being that it’s unique to Islam), I gave you an example, and quite a blood thirsty one at that.

I'm curious, what battles, and against whom, did Abraham lead his people?

 

[Scaff]

I'm curious, what battles, and against whom, did Abraham lead his people?

The battle of Siddim

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Siddim

“When word reached Abraham while he was staying in moreh with Aner and Eshcol, he immediately mounted a rescue operation, arming 318 of his trained servants, who went in pursuit of the enemy armies that were returning to their homelands. They caught up with them in the city of Dan, flanking the enemy on multiple sides during a night raid. The attack ran its course as far as Hobah, north of Damascus, where he defeated Chedorlaomer and his forces. Abram recovered all the goods, even the captives (including Lot).[6]”

However Moses was the main one for a bit of a battle in the name of god

 

[TenEightyOne]

Muhammad is maybe the only founder of a major religion who did command an army and so this violence has been present in the religion from the outset contrary to (all?) others.

Factually... that's bollocks.

Henry VIII, Fidei Defensor and recognised godhead led troops into battle. The last FD godhead to do so was George II in his capacity as Fidei Defensor re-incarnate.

I mean, this is fairly simple level British history but I guess it doesn't fit what some might think to be a monotonous islamaphobic narrative.

 

[BobK]

Factually... that's bollocks.

Henry VIII, Fidei Defensor and recognised godhead led troops into battle. The last FD godhead to do so was George II in his capacity as Fidei Defensor re-incarnate.

I mean, this is fairly simple level British history but I guess it doesn't fit what some might think to be a monotonous islamaphobic narrative.

What religions did Henry VIII and George II found? Abraham and Mohammad founded religions, to the best of my knowledge the two you mentioned did not.

 

[UKMikey]

So the defence is that although there were bloodthirsty warlike people leading the religion, they didn't found it so it's not comparable to Islam? Hmmm.

Meanwhile, Siddim is still a thing. Thank goodness Abraham gave way to peaceful OT leaders like Moses, Joshua and David. /s

"However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

"Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God."

-- Deuteronomy 20:16-18

 

[TenEightyOne]

What religions did Henry VIII and George II found? Abraham and Mohammad founded religions, to the best of my knowledge the two you mentioned did not.

Henry VIII founded Anglican Christianity and become the head of the new church. I mentioned George II as the last reincarnation of Henry VIII to lead troops into battle.

 

[Scaff]

So the defence is that although there were bloodthirsty warlike people leading the religion, they didn't found it so it's not comparable to Islam? Hmmm.

Meanwhile, Siddim is still a thing. Thank goodness Abraham gave way to peaceful OT leaders like Moses, Joshua and David. /s

"However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

"Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God."

-- Deuteronomy 20:16-18

Also forgets the incident with his wife giving her slave to 86 year old Abraham so he could have a kid!

So that would be a little bit of rape thrown in as well!

 

[HenrySwanson]

When on earth did I claim they were?

You asked for any other faith in which it’s founder lead people into battle (the inference being that it’s unique to Islam), I gave you an example, and quite a blood thirsty one at that.

At no time did I claim it was Christianity, but it certainly is part of Christianity’s back story.

Why....why would you talk about the Old Testament rather than the Tanakh?

I think I posted about how violent Judaism was before

 

[Scaff]

Why....why would you talk about the Old Testament rather than the Tanakh?

I think I posted about how violent Judaism was before

I used it as a reference, as you being a Christian, should know that Islam is not the only religion founded by someone who leads his (religious) army into battle.

After all, it's in the damn origin story and rather starts a family trait.

 

[HenrySwanson]

After the mass beheadings in Mozambique there's been another attack, this time in Nigeria where at least 40 are dead

 

[UKMikey]

I wonder what makes the murdering terrorists more representative of Islam than the victims or the majority of people who came out against them. Without widespread support of their actions you might as well be proposing Dylann Roof for pope.

If on the other hand they're not representative then I'm not sure what the relevance of highlighting an insane minority has to the discussion. Are they acting with government approval?

 

[SportCoaster]

I disagree with a lot of things of islam, however the way they are treated in concentration camps in china (and now hong kong) makes appalling too soft a word to explain the... well, treatment they get.

 

[TenEightyOne]

After the mass beheadings in Mozambique there's been another attack, this time in Nigeria where at least 40 are dead

Isn't this more about Boko Haram in it's literal sense and post-colonial Nigeria?

 

[Scaff]

Isn't this more about Boko Haram in it's literal sense and post-colonial Nigeria?

Ssshhh, it’s got to just be about one thing, or the entire argument falls apart.

Now for those interested, Netflix have released a film called Mosul, which is based around the Mosul SWAT team who remained in the city to fight ISIS when others left. It features an entirely Arab cast and is in Arabic, and well worth a watch.

The article about the unit that inspired it is also worth a read, as it goes into detail about how large a percentage of ISIS were actually just common criminals looking for a route to do what the want.


https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/06/the-desperate-battle-to-destroy-isis

 

[HenrySwanson]

Updated to at least 76 deaths.

Just so we're clear - an Islamic jihadist group has....nothing at all to do with Islam? Who has said it is the only representation of Islam in the world today, or that the attacks are solely to do with Islam?

I'm not even claiming it is the defining feature of Islam or that Islam is unique in this regard.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Who has said it is the only representation of Islam in the world today, or that the attacks are solely to do with Islam?

I fear people are starting to develop a blind side towards Islam and violence committed in its name as it goes against the admirable idea that all religions are equally "good" or "bad" in every respect. Acts like the recent beheadings in Mozambique, however, make me question this belief.

After the mass beheadings in Mozambique there's been another attack, this time in Nigeria where at least 40 are dead

After.

 

[HenrySwanson]

After.

Are you trying to say those are contradictory statements?

Islam isn't the only factor in those attacks, but it is a common factor. The Mozambique attacks were committed by militants linked to IS who are looking to establish Islamic rule in the area and Boko Haram are a jihadist group. That's not to say it is the only common factor either - poverty probably drives recruitment to both of these groups.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Macron’s party bans Muslim candidate for wearing hijab in poster

Not sure why they'd do this, it's not against the law. I realise they say overt symbols of religion shouldn't be on display on campaign documents but to ban her for that?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Macron’s party bans Muslim candidate for wearing hijab in poster

Not sure why they'd do this, it's not against the law. I realise they say overt symbols of religion shouldn't be on display on campaign documents but to ban her for that?

I know you think you added a link to this post, but you did not.

 

[HenrySwanson]

I know you think you added a link to this post, but you did not.

Oops. Fixed.

 

[Dennisch]

I'll post it in here as it's always in Allah's name.

One of Allah's henchmen has been busy in Brussels. Shot and killed at least 2 Swedish football fans, and claims online that he killed 3.

VRT.com

News is in Dutch, English translation will probably available soon. Warning for the feeble minded, there's footage of the radical one shooting people.

 

[NAXEHT]

Absolutely awful.

 

[TexRex]

Apparently another's adherence to Islam, to whatever degree one does, is cause for invading the home you rent out to them and stabbing them inside.

Chicago area landlord accused of killing Palestinian American boy, 6, stabbing woman because they were Muslim

Joseph Czuba has been charged with one count each of first-degree murder, attempted murder, and aggravated battery, and two counts of hate crime.

www.cbsnews.com

6-year-old Wadea Al-Fayoume was stabbed more than four times for each of those years, 26 total, ensuring that he would live no more. His mother, 32-year-old Hanaan Shahin, was also stabbed more than a dozen times but so far survives her injuries.

Warning for the feeble minded, there's footage of the radical one shooting people.

I like how the distaste for seeing lives taken is presented as an indication of feeble-mindedness.

 

[Dennisch]

I like how the distaste for seeing lives taken is presented as an indication of feeble-mindedness.

That's my bad. I was under the impression that it was the same as having a weak stomach or faint of heart. Mixed up my translations. Again, my bad.

 

[p78]

Someone (presumably the terrorist) was shot and died on his way to hospital, the weapon used in the attack was also found nearby.

It is believed he specifally targeted Swedish football supporters because of the Koran burnings that have been happening over there in the last months.

On a side note, i get why this in the Islam thread, but then again i also don't.
Granted he does it in the name of Allah, but terrorism has nothing to do with believing in any god what so ever.

edit

The suspect is/was a 46y old Tunisian who applied for asylum in 2019, and denied that asylum in 2020, he dissapeared shortly after.
He never stayed in a illegal shelter (not to sure this is the right word) and was given the order the leave the country in 2021.
He also was known with the intelligence services for human trafficking, being a danger to the state, and a radicalised profile, he was said to leave to a country to participate in Jihad.