Islam - What's your view on it?
- Thread starter SalmanBH
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- Murica
- BasedAckbar
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- GBO-Possum
OK, fair enough. It may not be the cause, so enlighten me. If Islam is not the cause of Muslims basically owning the "suicide bomber" function, then how does the Muslim community explain that ownership?
I'm assuming that the Muslim community has noticed that the vast majority of suicide bombers are Muslims and mostly doing it in the name of Islam.
"Name of Islam"
a.k.a nationalists/punks whose hiding behind religion for their own benefit/power or mindless extremists who take religion with a radically close mind and critical research failure.
Islam nowadays gets the most flack because its origin countries has a huge amount of oil resulting in cheaper and more accessible weaponry. Other religions sometimes also fall on this. Remember IRA and Jonestown?
- 2,851
- Australia
No, go further. I find it quite interesting, because I tend to hear "No, that's not what Islam is about" but not so much of the detail behind that.
On this example though, is the killing justified by misinformation alone or does there have to be killing due to misinformation? Also, who is allowed to be killed, the misinformed killer, the misinformer, or both?
- 2,988
- Massachusetts
- GBO-Possum
Yes, the IRA and the Jonestown event are memorable. They were also confined to narrow geographies, especially Jonestown. They happened a long time ago, were led by a small number of people.
That's not to say that the associated religions should be beyond criticism.
By contrast Islam has provided us with with so many "gifts", and does so on an almost daily basis:-
The National Islamic Front of Sudan
Ditto of Afghanistan
The Taliban
Boko Haram
ISIS
Al Qaeda
And others at http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Islamist_groups
That's a lot of "nationalists" and "punks" trying to force their dogma on others
- 11,626
- Intercourse, PA
- Carbonox
Extremism won't prevail in secular societies, they said...
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4590/germany-jihad
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4590/germany-jihad
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
IRA were hardly restricted to narrow geography. That's a threat I grew up very close to and I assure you that you're incorrect in that statement.
IS only constitute about 10,000 active members, the scale isn't so incomparable as you think against over 30 million Iraqis.
You make that sound exclusively Islaamic... Christianity is as bad for blessing with one hand and swinging a sword with the other. As are (imo) the majority of actual religions (as opposed to ways of life).
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- GBO-Possum
The geography of the Islamic world, stretching across more than half of Africa, parts of Europe, virtually the entire Middle East through Iran and the "-stans", a vast area of India and what was formerly India, right through Malaysia and Indonesia is orders of magnitude larger than the geography impacted by the IRA.
The IRA's period of violence was also much briefer than that of Islam, which continues to this day, possibly increasing.
As for me "making it sound exclusively Islamic", consider the incidence of Muslim suicide bombings, which are a daily occurrence in the news. When was the last time you read about an "atheist suicide bomber"? Or even a "non-Muslim suicide bomber"?
Dotini
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WWII kamikazis.
Related is the "human wave attack", practiced by European, Asian and Mideast armies until relatively recently.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_wave_attack
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- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Ah, you meant comparatively narrow. That comparison (compared to your presenting the fact) was important, you should have included it then.
Probably Vietnam is the last time I can think of larger numbers of people strapping on the vest of supposed-glory. Almost all suicide bombings are undertaken by Muslims at the moment. That doesn't make suicide bombing uniquely Muslim, I felt you implied it dead.
Interesting that on average there's one suicide bombing per day. Each of those would have to kill thirty people to be as deadly as firearm deaths in the US. Don't be overawed by the scale of the problem, it's big press but comparatively small-footprint.
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- Denur; GTP_Denur
I was going to post: "I think @GBO Possum means suicide bombing terrorists, those who are willing to give their lives to kill women and children.", until I read this about the Tamil Tigers. I had forgotten about those and e.g. the PLO.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
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- GBO-Possum
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
You did ask for "non-muslim" too, have you refined that to "exclusively atheistically motivated" in face of more evidence?
You seem to be arguing that suicide bombing is somehow exclusively Islaamic and/or only ever driven by religion and that any non-religious bombings must therefore be atheistic. Or something.
- 2,988
- Massachusetts
- GBO-Possum
You did ask for "non-muslim" too, have you refined that to "exclusively atheistically motivated" in face of more evidence?
You seem to be arguing that suicide bombing is somehow exclusively Islaamic and/or only ever driven by religion and that any non-religious bombings must therefore be atheistic. Or something.
I'm not arguing that suicide bombing is exclusively Islamic, just that the vast majority of suicide bombers are Muslims. Therefore I conclude that there is something about Islam which encourages this behavior.
I also argue that suicide bombing is not commonly performed by atheists in the name of atheism. I know of no instance of such an action, however, maybe there have been such bombings. Atheists tend to value life too much to want to die.
I argue that killing in the name of religion is a more common practice than killing in the name of atheism.
Finally, I argue that Islam has been involved in religious-based killing consistently for over a thousand years. By consistently, I mean pretty much without pause. And I make no distinction between Muslims killing Muslims because of their different beliefs, or Muslims killing people of other faiths, or those with a lack of faith.
Sadly, the mainstream Muslim communities have been unable to contain this violence, and unable to morph Islam so that it no longer spawns extremism, or at least spawns it less.
- 9,053
- Murica
- BasedAckbar
The reason your Islamic extremism exist is because (and I said this long ago on this thread I believe) of these extremists are coming from third world nations who's governments are corrupt to the brim, whose people are mired in poverty, and whose landscape has been mired by ethnic/religious/political warfare. Most of these young men and women find solace in radical Islam because it allows them to vent their anger at something. You want to get rid of their extremism? Give them a country that is willing to bend over backwards to provide them an education, willing to create an economy to give them jobs so these people can feed themselves.
Why is it that most hardcore Islamist come from broken nations like Iraq and not from nations like Turkey? Sure Turkey may say it's secular but they are Islamic at their core.
Why is it that most hardcore Islamist come from broken nations like Iraq and not from nations like Turkey? Sure Turkey may say it's secular but they are Islamic at their core.
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Quakebass
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- quakebass
Extremism on any front is the most dangerous way to play.
An extremist Muslim is usually defined as a terrorist. An extremist Christian can be something like the WBC, but also the terrifying Christian regimes that led genocides in Africa. Jewish extremists are what you can find in Israel, massacring Palestinians unconditionally. Extremist atheists believe people of faith are the bane of society, and believe the destruction of religious people is optimal.
Each of these groups believe that anyone who disagrees with them should be eradicated. They believe that they are the "dominant" part of society, like a form of nationalism, only pertaining to beliefs.
No extremist can determine the tendency of any individual of any faith or belief system. Each is completely capable of peace, or completely capable of evil. Judgements should never be made on an entire religion, but on the individuals on question.
My opinion on Islam is neutral, it comes down to what people make of it and do with it.
An extremist Muslim is usually defined as a terrorist. An extremist Christian can be something like the WBC, but also the terrifying Christian regimes that led genocides in Africa. Jewish extremists are what you can find in Israel, massacring Palestinians unconditionally. Extremist atheists believe people of faith are the bane of society, and believe the destruction of religious people is optimal.
Each of these groups believe that anyone who disagrees with them should be eradicated. They believe that they are the "dominant" part of society, like a form of nationalism, only pertaining to beliefs.
No extremist can determine the tendency of any individual of any faith or belief system. Each is completely capable of peace, or completely capable of evil. Judgements should never be made on an entire religion, but on the individuals on question.
My opinion on Islam is neutral, it comes down to what people make of it and do with it.
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- Carbonox
"One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory."
That's what Houari Boumedienne, former PM of Algeria, had to say in 1974. Does anyone feel like claiming this has nothing to do with the religion of peace conquering Europe?
Link: http://islamversuseurope.blogspot.fi/2012/02/boumediennes-un-speech-wombs-of-our.html
That's what Houari Boumedienne, former PM of Algeria, had to say in 1974. Does anyone feel like claiming this has nothing to do with the religion of peace conquering Europe?
Link: http://islamversuseurope.blogspot.fi/2012/02/boumediennes-un-speech-wombs-of-our.html
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Not really, unless you have a source that say otherwise?
The question of the "growth of Islam", in some cases a mis-perception of diaspora rather than an observation of people going anew to the faith, was raised in the Brtain Furst thread (somewhere around here).
My reply to a post reviewed some figures that claimed to show that Muslamical population of Brittnn would be 50% by 2050; here's the original article that made the claim.
And my reply;
His base data is wrong to start with, he then uses the UK figures that he quotes* to apply to Britain, given that Northern Island has the fewest Muslims out of the Union's four constituent countries I'd say he's missed a sitter and exposed a streak of some density.
He finishes by lauding Enoch Powell, claiming that the last 40 years have vindicated him. I sense that there might be an agenda there.
So, he claims that there's a growth rate of 6.7%pa, that would seem at odds with the 1.5% global figure.
For the sake of argument, lets say that the rate in the UK (not Britain, there are no individual figures for her three countries) is double that, or 3%. Let's start from a known figure for Muslims in the UK in 2014, which is 4.4% of the population.
When we get to 2050 the article tells us that we should have 50% Muslimicisation** (actually he'd have said 60% if he'd done his own sum properly, which he didn't).
Using real figures we'll only have 13%
- 2,988
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- GBO-Possum
Studies of the background of terrorists, including the 9-11 gang, would indicate an education level similar to the average American.
That doesn't sound like poverty is the driver, at least in THIS STUDY.
Dotini
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- CR80_Shifty
I have learned that Sunni Muslims believe in a personal god, and Shia Muslims do not. This is undoubtedly part of their cosmic disagreement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_deity
There is a distinct difference between the two major Islamic sects, Shia and Sunni, regarding belief in a personal god. Most Sunni Muslims believe in a personal god.[2][22]
This belief is strongly rejected by Shia Muslims.[22]
A discussion Christianity with respect to the personal/impersonal god question. If impersonal, as in the energy god of Mose's burning bush, the Christian could be viewed as irreligious, as could the Shiite.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100825235041AADsBDf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_deity
There is a distinct difference between the two major Islamic sects, Shia and Sunni, regarding belief in a personal god. Most Sunni Muslims believe in a personal god.[2][22]
This belief is strongly rejected by Shia Muslims.[22]
A discussion Christianity with respect to the personal/impersonal god question. If impersonal, as in the energy god of Mose's burning bush, the Christian could be viewed as irreligious, as could the Shiite.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100825235041AADsBDf
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