Islam - What's your view on it?

[Dennisch]

Neither are the right-wing nutjobs who have replaced "innocent until proven guilty" with "guilty until proven Muslim".

Are you glued on your horse?

Perhaps now is the moment to come your senses and elect the right-wingers to throw the Muslims out of Europe?

We want Geert!

Nah.

 

[samurai8juice]

Millions of Muslims fleeing war and deprivation in the Middle East are by definition in extremis.

Yes, but in extremis and extremist are two different phrases. He used extremists, you used in extremis.

 

[Furinkazen]

All the videos show are the attack itself, and people saying things commonly associated with extremism. But how do you know that they are extremists, and not some populist right-wing movement trying to stir up unrest? The videos only prove that the attack happened. They don't prove why it happened. For that, you need to identify the perpetrators and establish a motive separately.

Isn't getting out a car with 2 rifles, shooting a policeman, and raiding and killing in a french newspaper office a bit "extreme" or dare I say it "extremist"?

the right-wingers will do exactly what you have done, and blame the political left for something that the political right did.

Gonna have a read of my post to see if I ever made reference to political wings or any involvement.

Totally ignoring my post that has evidence and proof. If a bomb went off in sydney right now with a group of gunman shouting about messages in the name of Allah, and how they are doing gods work - would you deny it?

And sorry, how can a video be wrong? A video shows things on a screen, you cannot doctor it and make it up like words. Seriously PM you appear to live in your own little bubble on these affairs.




Another link confirming the Al-Qaeda connections.



Need video evidence of the hippie then!



Neither are the nutjobs who are shown graphically killing a police officer on video. That enough for you?

Fixed. Extremists are not muslims, they are people using something as a justification.

If I walk into my local town centre and open fire with a handgun shouting "in the name of our lord Jesus" , I would be probably labelled as a white extremist, and there would be not be calls (such as your ridiculously skewed view on blaming an entire faith) for all Christians to be thrown out.

Nope, but apparently I blamed the political left without ever mentioning politics? Putting words in someone's mouth now really?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Isn't getting out a car with 2 rifles, shooting a policeman, and raiding and killing in a french newspaper office a bit "extreme" or dare I say it "extremist"?

It's extreme, certainly. But again, it doesn't prove that they are terrorists. Like I said, there is an explanation for this attack - however unlikely you find it - where the attackers are not Islamic terrorists.

Gonna have a read of my post to see if I ever made reference to political wings or any involvement.

Nope, but apparently I blamed the political left without ever mentioning politics? Putting words in someone's mouth now really?

I wasn't quoting you there. I was quoting Dotini. You also quoted him, changing some things in his post to make it much more reasonable.

 

[samurai8juice]

It's extreme, certainly. But again, it doesn't prove that they are terrorists. Like I said, there is an explanation for this attack - however unlikely you find it - where the attackers are not Islamic terrorists.



I wasn't quoting you there. I was quoting Dotini. You also quoted him, changing some things in his post to make it much more reasonable.

If you murder several people in public you will definitely(at least in America) be considered a terrorist of some sort, just because you are striking fear into the public, which by definition is a terrorist.

 

[Denur]

It's extreme, certainly. But again, it doesn't prove that they are terrorists. Like I said, there is an explanation for this attack - however unlikely you find it - where the attackers are not Islamic terrorists.

How likely do you think it is that that is the case? (honest question)

 

[Dotini]

How likely do you think it is that that is the case? (honest question)

If the killers were professional soldiers or commandos, would not that be something different than "Islamic terrorists"?

The fact they made a clean getaway and didn't blow themselves up says something in itself.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

How likely do you think it is that that is the case? (honest question)

I think that it is extremely unlikely (though having said that, Anders Behring Breivik had a similar motive). But I also think it is important that we not jump to conclusions.

Hypothetically, what if this attack was carried out by someone - anyone - other than Islamic extremists? And continuing that hypothetical, what if we all jump to conclusions and accuse Muslims of being responsible?

Like I said, young people get radicalised because they feel marginalised by society. What makes them feel marginalised? The assumption that their community is responsible for attacks like this without any evidence in support of it.

 

[Dennisch]

Let's go hypothetical.

What if potatoes were used as killing devices. Who would we blame?

The Irish, of course.

Stop twisting around it. Everything points towards Islamic extremists.

Some quotes from the videos:

"we've killed Charlie Hebdo" "we've taken revenge for the Prophet Muhammad "

"ALLAH AKBAR"

And now looks at the current situation. Who uses those phrases when carrying out attacks?

Penguins?

 

[Touring Mars]

I think that it is extremely unlikely (though having said that, Anders Behring Breivik had a similar motive). But I also think it is important that we not jump to conclusions.

Hypothetically, what if this attack was carried out by someone - anyone - other than Islamic extremists? And continuing that hypothetical, what if we all jump to conclusions and accuse Muslims of being responsible?

Like I said, young people get radicalised because they feel marginalised by society. What makes them feel marginalised? The assumption that their community is responsible for attacks like this without any evidence in support of it.

I agree with your general point, but in this case I'd say there was pretty obvious evidence that already clearly points to Islamic extremists. It is rather hard not to draw some conclusions after seeing video footage of people shouting 'Allah Akbar!' while murdering people.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Some quotes from the videos:

"we've killed Charlie Hebdo" "we've taken revenge for the Prophet Muhammad "

"ALLAH AKBAR"

And now looks at the current situation. Who uses those phrases when carrying out attacks?

All of which we call circumstantial evidence.

Your argument is built on a logical fallacy. It amounts to "These are the things that were said in the attack. Islamic extremists say these sorts of things. Therefore, Islamic extremists carried out the attack".

 

[Dennisch]

All of which we call circumstantial evidence.

Your argument is built on a logical fallacy. It amounts to "These are the things that were said in the attack. Islamic extremists say these sorts of things. Therefore, Islamic extremists carried out the attack".

TM pretty much answered it for me:

I agree with your general point, but in this case I'd say there was pretty obvious evidence that already clearly points to Islamic extremists. It is rather hard not to draw some conclusions after seeing video footage of people shouting 'Allah Akbar!' while murdering people.

 

[eran0004]

Isn't getting out a car with 2 rifles, shooting a policeman, and raiding and killing in a french newspaper office a bit "extreme" or dare I say it "extremist"?

Extremism is not the same as extreme. Extremism has to do with ideology, taking an idea or an ideology to an extreme level. An extreme act does not need to be made by an extremist, as well as an extremist act does not need to be extreme.

All of which we call circumstantial evidence.

Your argument is built on a logical fallacy. It amounts to "These are the things that were said in the attack. Islamic extremists say these sorts of things. Therefore, Islamic extremists carried out the attack".

Indeed. It makes it look like an attack by islamic extremists but it's hardly solid evidence. Anyone can go out on the street and shout allahu akbar and say that they're from Al Qaida in Yemen.

Regardless of who is behind the attack, the consequences will be the same: Further polarization of the society, conflicts between muslims and non-muslims, increased radicalization and extremism on both sides. Pretty much what nobody wants, except for the extremists.

 

[Denur]

The fact they made a clean getaway and didn't blow themselves up says something in itself.

No, it means nothing. There are plenty of examples of terrorist attacks that were not suicidal (remember Madrid, do you?)

I think that it is extremely unlikely (though having said that, Anders Behring Breivik had a similar motive). But I also think it is important that we not jump to conclusions.

Was Breivik trying to blame it on someone else? I don't think so.

Hypothetically, what if this attack was carried out by someone - anyone - other than Islamic extremists? And continuing that hypothetical, what if we all jump to conclusions and accuse Muslims of being responsible?

Yes, it could have been carried out by non-Muslim extremists. But by shouting "we've killed Charlie Hebdo" "we've taken revenge for the Prophet Muhammad " and "ALLAH AKBAR", one could only conclude that in that case they are trying to get the blame on the Muslim community and to destabilize the French society. Has anything like that ever happened? Not that I can remember. Or maybe "de bende van Nijvel" who were never caught and it was speculated that they were right-wing extremists trying to destabilize Belgium.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Indeed. It makes it look like an attack by islamic extremists but it's hardly solid evidence. Anyone can go out on the street and shout allahu akbar and say that they're from Al Qaida in Yemen.

Given that simply by random chance you'd be right 3/4 times in concluding a terrorist attack would be from a Muslim extremist, I don't think anyone is really going out on a limb in this case in moving forward assuming this is yet another muslim extremist terrorist, slaughtering innocent people. I could be wrong, but I'd give good odds I'm not.

 

[eran0004]

Given that simply by random chance you'd be right 3/4 times in concluding a terrorist attack would be from a Muslim extremist, I don't think anyone is really going out on a limb in this case in moving forward assuming this is yet another muslim extremist terrorist, slaughtering innocent people. I could be wrong, but I'd give good odds I'm not.

And you'd probably be right. But it's still not conclusive evidence.

 

[VolkswagenX]

Let's go hypothetical.

What if potatoes were used as killing devices. Who would we blame?

The Irish, of course.

Stop twisting around it. Everything points towards Islamic extremists.

Some quotes from the videos:

"we've killed Charlie Hebdo" "we've taken revenge for the Prophet Muhammad "

"ALLAH AKBAR"

And now looks at the current situation. Who uses those phrases when carrying out attacks?

Penguins?

Did they also mention they were muslim? Because then we would know for sure and can continue dropping bombs in the middle east whitout all these pro peace anti-war hippies complaining. All hail the mighty MIC!!

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/662798/france-to-deploy-aircraft-carrier-to-fight-isis-report

 

[Dennisch]

Did they also mention they were muslim? Because then we would know for sure and can continue dropping bombs in the middle east whitout all these pro peace anti-war hippies complaining. All hail the mighty MIC!!

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/662798/france-to-deploy-aircraft-carrier-to-fight-isis-report

Pretty obvious that they are Muslim. They just aren't very good at it.

 

[VolkswagenX]

Pretty obvious that they are Muslim. They just aren't very good at it.

I know right?!? Would have been even better if they also told us Assad, isis, Iran, Hizbollah and Hamas paid them to do it so that we can bomb them all and finally bring democracy

 

[Dennisch]

finally bring democracy

Why stop there and not just completely level the place and let Israel expand waaaaaaay beyond their borders?

 

[VolkswagenX]

Why stop there and not just completely level the place and let Israel expand waaaaaaay beyond their borders?

But then there would be nobody left to fight and that is bad for business

 

[Dennisch]

But then there would be nobody left to fight and that is bad for business

Pfft. We can always go to Africa!

 

[VolkswagenX]

Pfft. We can always go to Africa!

Great thinking! We should call our peace force Africom!

 

[Dennisch]

Great thinking! We should call our peace force Africom!

*Afrikakorps.

 

[eran0004]

I know right?!? Would have been even better if they also told us Assad, isis, Iran, Hizbollah and Hamas paid them to do it so that we can bomb them all and finally bring democracy

Iran actually used to be a democracy, until 1953. Guess who intervened?

 

[Dennisch]

Iran actually used to be a democracy, until 1953. Guess who intervened?

OEH OEH OEH

Teacher! Teacher! I know the answer!!!

 

[VolkswagenX]

Iran actually used to be a democracy, until 1953. Guess who intervened?

Are you going to say that the UK and the US had anything to do with orchastrating the 1953 coup of the democratically elected government of Iran? Because we all know it was done by isis with the help of the evil Russians!

 

[eran0004]

Are you going to say that the UK and the US had anything to do with orchastrating the 1953 coup of the democratically elected government of Iran? Because we all know it was done by isis with the help of the evil Russians!

Is the right answer! A lot of people think that Sputnik 1 was just a harmless spaceball transmitting its "beep... beep... beep", but what they don't know is that each of these beeps had the power to change a certaint event in recent time (about a decade or so). One of those beeps is what caused the coup, and it even made it look like the British and the US were involved. That's some cutting edge Soviet technology right there.

Edit: Sorry @Dennisch , you can answer the next question.

 

[samurai8juice]

I know right?!? Would have been even better if they also told us Assad, isis, Iran, Hizbollah and Hamas paid them to do it so that we can bomb them all and finally bring democracy

Yay, collateral damage!

/sarcasm

 

[Scaff]

Perhaps now is the moment to come your senses and elect the right-wingers to throw the Muslims out of Europe?

Nope (but good to see that you conflate extremists with all an entire group).

Perhaps now is the moment to admit that your policy of liberal intervention in the Middle East is a colossal failure with intolerable blowback?

Liberal intervention?

Millions of Muslims fleeing war and deprivation in the Middle East are by definition in extremis.

Oh look at you deliberately mixing terms to try and provoke reactions (again).