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No, they just reap the whirlwind from making cartoon strips about it.
Islam - What's your view on it?
- Thread starter SalmanBH
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No, they just reap the whirlwind from making cartoon strips about it.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Has it been demonstrated that the attack was motivated by a cartoon strip?
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- Dennisch
Seeing that the magazine is pretty much all about the cartoons I'd say yes.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
- 31,470
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- Dennisch
The screaming of ALLAH ACKBAR in one of the videos should be an obvious pointer.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
It should be, but it could also be something dreamed up by an extreme right-wing group to stir up anti-Muslim sentiment in France.
Okay, that's an extremely unlikely explanation - the point is that we should wait and see what happens before jumping to conclusions. Look at the Sydney siege gunman, who used radical iconography during his attack, but whose motivations had nothing to do with radical Islam.
Dotini
(Banned)
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- CR80_Shifty
The gunmen shouted "we have avenged the Prophet Muhammad", witnesses say.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30710883#
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Did I say that? I don't remember saying that.
Why do you think that groups like IS are able to appeal to impressionable young men? It's because they take advantage of the way those young men feel marginalised and targeted by mainstream society for their faith. Whether they are actually being marginalised and/or targeted is beside the point - the fact that they feel that way is enough. And what inspires them to feel that way? Things like Western cultures assuming that Muslims are responsible for these attacks before any actual evidence is given.
I did not say that we should ignore extremism. I said that we should wait until we can prove that it is extremism, because the assumption that it is extremism without evidence to substantiate it will only inspire this to happen again.
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- Furinkazen_54
Or how the french papers last cartoon on twitter was a swipe aimed at a Jihadist group.
Load of 🤬 as they have nothing to avenge.
- 31,470
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- Dennisch
Go to youtube, google Charlie Hebdo attack and see the evidence.
You'll hear that commonly used phrase being shouted on several occasions on different videos.
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- Denur; GTP_Denur
In what world is gunning down civilians and policemen not extreme? Or are you waiting for prove whether we're dealing with e.g. Muslims, Marxists or Nazi's?
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Again, it's not definitive evidence. It's strong circumstantial evidence, but not definitive.
Like I said, Man Haron Monis, the person responsible for the Sydney siege a few weeks ago, flew a flag in the window of the coffee shop he took over. That flag had strong connections to extremism, but it wasn't proof of extremism. The current theory is that Monis was pushed over the edge by the High Court's refusal to quash a conviction against him, and that he flew the flag to draw attention to his plight. He had nothing to do with extremism.
The phrase you are quoting has become synonymous with terrorism to the point where most Westerners know of it. Where is your proof that this attack was carried out by Islamic extremists, and not by the far right trying to stir up anti-Islamic sentiment?
This.
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- GTP_Mars
- 44,184
- Blackburn
- Furinkazen_54
In that case have an eyewitness account from inside the building.
http://www.channel4.com/news/gun-attack-on-french-satirical-magazine-kills-at-least-10
Now try and spin it away from extremism.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
How about you try and actually read my comments, and stop misrepresenting them?
I never said that it was not extremism. I said that we should wait until we know that it is extremism before we start calling it extremism, however likely it might be that it is extremism.
Why is so difficult for you to understand this?
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- Furinkazen_54
Last I checked Al-Qaeda were an extremist terrorist organisation, so the gunmen saying they were Al-Qaeda is kind of an obvious pointer.
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- Dennisch
Why is it so difficult for you to accept the videos of actual witnesses of the massacre as evidence?
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- GTP_Mars
There is such a thing as keeping such an open mind that your brain falls out. This attack was planned, targeted, specific and very well organised, and the attackers are also clear and vocal about what they did, why, and in whose name. It bears all the hallmarks of an Islamist extremist group.
It remains a remote possibility that this is some sort of false flag attack by right wing extremists, but that would make it almost without precedent, and as yet there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support this theory.
It remains a remote possibility that this is some sort of false flag attack by right wing extremists, but that would make it almost without precedent, and as yet there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support this theory.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Because videos of actual witnesses of a hostage situation - taken from a time when nobody was really certain of what was happening - were put forward as proof of extremism in another case. And those videos and witnesses were wrong.
This will (and should) progress like any police investigation: identify the perpetrators, and look into their backgrounds and their activities to establish motive, means and opportunity. It's a far more reliable way to establish proof than looking to eyewitnesses who are probably still in shock when they are making their statements.
Dotini
(Banned)
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- CR80_Shifty
We always have a choice in how we respond to stressful situations.
"When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!" - That's one way to do it.
Another way is slower and calmer, making use of the time and reasoning abilities that are available.
"When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!" - That's one way to do it.
Another way is slower and calmer, making use of the time and reasoning abilities that are available.
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- Dennisch
I am talking about videos of the deed. Not witness statements.
You act so desperately open minded that you are losing touch with the actual current reality.
Fact is that Charlie Hebdo has been targeted before for anti Islamic cartoons. Facts is that we have video EVIDENCE pointing towards Islamic extremists.
Get of your high horse and step back into reality. The world isn't a pretty place, and current Islamic nutjobs aren't helping the situation.
You act so desperately open minded that you are losing touch with the actual current reality.
Fact is that Charlie Hebdo has been targeted before for anti Islamic cartoons. Facts is that we have video EVIDENCE pointing towards Islamic extremists.
Get of your high horse and step back into reality. The world isn't a pretty place, and current Islamic nutjobs aren't helping the situation.
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- GTP_Mars
- 31,470
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- Dennisch
Circumstantial evidence. Could have been a hippie who shot him.
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- Furinkazen_54
Totally ignoring my post that has evidence and proof. If a bomb went off in sydney right now with a group of gunman shouting about messages in the name of Allah, and how they are doing gods work - would you deny it?
And sorry, how can a video be wrong? A video shows things on a screen, you cannot doctor it and make it up like words. Seriously PM you appear to live in your own little bubble on these affairs.
Another link confirming the Al-Qaeda connections.
Need video evidence of the hippie then!
Neither are the nutjobs who are shown graphically killing a police officer on video. That enough for you?
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
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- CR80_Shifty
Perhaps now is the moment to come your senses and elect the right-wingers to throw the Muslims out of Europe?
Perhaps now is the moment to admit that your policy of liberal intervention in the Middle East is a colossal failure with intolerable blowback?
Perhaps now is the moment to admit that your policy of liberal intervention in the Middle East is a colossal failure with intolerable blowback?
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- Furinkazen_54
Fixed. Extremists are not muslims, they are people using something as a justification.
If I walk into my local town centre and open fire with a handgun shouting "in the name of our lord Jesus" , I would be probably labelled as a white extremist, and there would be not be calls (such as your ridiculously skewed view on blaming an entire faith) for all Christians to be thrown out.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
It wouldn't be the first time a group claimed responsibility for something that they didn't do. How do I know that a bomb went off in a terrorist attack, and it wasn't just a bad gas main and someone seeing an opportunity to get some quick publicity?
All the videos show are the attack itself, and people saying things commonly associated with extremism. But how do you know that they are extremists, and not some populist right-wing movement trying to stir up unrest? The videos only prove that the attack happened. They don't prove why it happened. For that, you need to identify the perpetrators and establish a motive separately.
The right-wingers will just throw every Muslim out of Europe regardless of whether or not they are guilty of anything. This will breed more extremism, at which point the right-wingers will do exactly what you have done, and blame the political left for something that the political right did.
Dotini
(Banned)
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- CR80_Shifty
Millions of Muslims fleeing war and deprivation in the Middle East are by definition in extremis.
