Islam - What's your view on it?

  • Thread starter SalmanBH
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I'll let you know if I've been threatened with violence. Until then, the picture stays up unless a mod asks me to spoiler or remove it. Its source is the very wiki article you posted. I've no desire to invest in any provocative t-shirts though.Monty Python's Life Of Brian is as much of an example as I need.
Oh that's nursery level stuff compared to this :cheers:
Religion is not like food. Religion is a drug. Perhaps - perhaps - some religions are like marijuana, but I'm going to stick with opiates for most of them. Other religions are like crack or fentanyl.

You're welcome to ingest whatever intoxicant makes you feel good, even if it kills you.

You are NOT welcome to make others ingest your drug of choice, or tolerate your presence while you're using.
Ah, I was using it as an analogy in a diff context. Strawberries undoubtably do less harm than burgers, but they each have different characteristics. You'll feel more full with a burger, say, or it makes you feel better.

Religion in this way can affect people/societies like that. Look at what Christianity (more specifically evangelicalism) is doing this election cycle. Bahai concepts wouldn't guarantee that it wouldn't develop similarly if it got into a position of strength, however its embrace of the other religions is a buffer. The Abrahamic ones are very supremacist by design, and we're seeing it play out in the Mid East with the tribal nature spreading across the world.
 
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I have a very angry view of Islam, wouldn't you? Why not?
I have no issue with any religion. People are free to believe what they want. From a point of personal experience all the Muslims I’ve interacted with have been fantastic and wonderful people. Warm, caring and generous.

They have views which clash with my own of LBGTQ+ people. However we work along side many different people. Would it surprise you that my good friend who I’ve worked with on the daily for the last 8 years or more has gay friends in work and on social media along with his family and friends who are out in Pakistan. At no point have those people we worked with ever been on the end of a religious rant about what is correct in their eyes etc.
It's like you didn't experience the Qatar World Cup
Sorry but I don’t watch football. It’s not my bag as they say. I did a quick Google and while it’s a shame a Muslim country is still behaving in this manner to minorities etc. it’s not unsurprising and given how hardline some countries can be, especially when religion is involved.

This isn’t specific to Islamic Nations though.
Ah, the algorithm strikes again.
Not sure what that means. Is AI running Law enforcement?
Not in my case.
That’s great to hear, nothing worse than getting wound up, when a simple self awareness and human kindness can mitigate it.
 
Sorry but I don’t watch football. It’s not my bag as they say. I did a quick Google and while it’s a shame a Muslim country is still behaving in this manner to minorities etc. it’s not unsurprising and given how hardline some countries can be, especially when religion is involved.
Theocracies are horrible.
Not in terms of the headline-grabbing backlash to it at the time. See also The Last Temptation Of Christ.
Or…

The Good Man Jesus and the Scoundrel Christ

I doubt this book received the backlash of the two movies I mentioned.
 
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If my friends wanted Mohammed to not be depicted in any way, shape or form, surely as a none believer it’s my responsibility to not do that? Isn’t that what being a good friend, neighbour or human being is?
Because as a religious law, that's a rule for them, not for you, or any other person in the world that doesn't worship said warlord.
 
Because as a religious law, that's a rule for them, not for you, or any other person in the world that doesn't worship said warlord.
As a decent human being though, why would I won’t to cause upset to people for no reason?

If I had a reason to depict Mohammed then I’d have no issue. Context has a huge impact of the where and why I guess.

doubt this book received the backlash of the two movies I mentioned.
Probably not. They were before the book and times and attitudes have changed quite a bit since.
 
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As a decent human being though, why would I won’t to cause upset to people for no reason?

If I had a reason to depict Mohammed then I’d have no issue. Context has a huge impact of the where and why I guess.
You should generally treat people with courtesy, yes.

That doesn't mean that people get to force their version of acceptability on you.
 
You should generally treat people with courtesy, yes.

That doesn't mean that people get to force their version of acceptability on you.

I agree, with you 100%, at no point should anyone force anyone else to accept anything. Especially things like religious doctrine.
 
As a decent human being though, why would I won’t to cause upset to people for no reason?

If I had a reason to depict Mohammed then I’d have no issue. Context has a huge impact of the where and why I guess.
I just find that the whole beauty of non-belief is complete exemption from rigid laws and moral standards that religions like to enforce.

While drawing Mohammed is something most people would have to go out of their way to do to begin with (and probably wouldn't show it off much in public anyway), I'd find it iffy to unconditionally agree to such a demand as it could embolden more of the same down the line that would start affecting daily life, like "don't consume alcohol or pork because it also goes against my standards and I just decided it offends me the same as Mo cartoons".
 
That doesn't mean that people get to force their version of acceptability on you.
What constitutes force here? @Sprite didn't imply as much, but would individuals conditioning association on adherence to standards, however arbitrary (like not depicting Mohammed or consuming alcohol or pork), and terminating association on noncompliance constitute force? Why or why not?

I will say I have no strong desire to depict Mohammed (I'm not a fan of pedophiles), but I do drink. I've actually opted to not drink in others' presence, only it was due to acknowledgement of and respect for their recovery efforts rather than any specific delusion. Now if I want to eat pork and someone asks me not to eat pork or they'll cease association with me, well...bye.
 
I agree, with you 100%, at no point should anyone force anyone else to accept anything. Especially things like religious doctrine.
So, you shouldn't post a picture of [insert religious icon here] specifically just to antagonize innocent people. That's a basic dick move, whether done for comedic effect or whatever.

But if you want to post a picture of [insert religious icon here] because reasons, you should be free to, without fear of who it might offend. Their being offended shouldn't be your problem.
 
Not in terms of the headline-grabbing backlash to it at the time. See also The Last Temptation Of Christ.
About those pictures you posted....

This happened:

In many instances, demonstrations against the cartoons became intertwined with those about other local political grievances.[14]: 106–9  Muslims in the north of Nigeria used protests to attack local Christians as part of an ongoing battle for influence, radical Sunnis used protests against governments in the Middle East, and authoritarian governments used them to bolster their religious and nationalist credentials in internal disputes; these associated political motives explain the intensity of some of the demonstrations.[14]: 106–9 

Several Western embassies were attacked;[54] the Danish and Austrian embassies in Lebanon and the Norwegian and Danish representations in Syria were severely damaged.[55] Christians and Christian churches were also targets of violent retribution in some places.[56] U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice accused Iran and Syria of organising many of the protests in Iran, Syria, and Lebanon.[57] However, Hezbollah, ally of Syria and Iran in Lebanon, has condemned the attack on the Danish Embassy.[58] Several death threats were made against the cartoonists and the newspaper,[59] resulting in the cartoonists going into hiding.[60] Danish Prime Minister Rasmussen called it Denmark's worst international relations incident since the Second World War.
[61]
In India, Haji Yaqub Qureishi, a minister in the Uttar Pradesh state government, announced a cash reward for anyone who beheaded "the Danish cartoonist" who caricatured Mohammad. Subsequently, a case was filed against him in the Lucknow district court and eminent Muslim scholars in India were split between those supporting punishment for the cartoonists and those calling for the minister's sacking.[65] As of 2011, legal action was ongoing

The cartoonists?


Numerous violent plots related to the cartoons have been discovered in the years since the main protests in early 2006. These have primarily targeted editor Flemming Rose,[86] cartoonist Kurt Westergaard, the property or employees of Jyllands-Posten and other newspapers that printed the cartoons,[87][88] and representatives of the Danish state.[89] Westergaard was the subject of several attacks or planned attacks and lived under special police protection until his death in 2021. On 1 January 2010, police used firearms to stop a would-be assassin in Westergaard's home.[90][91] In February 2011, the attacker, a 29-year-old Somali man, was sentenced to nine years in prison.[a][92][93] In 2010, three men based in Norway were arrested on suspicion that they were planning a terror attack against Jyllands-Posten or Kurt Westergaard; two of the men were convicted.[94] In the United States, David Headley and Tahawwur Hussain Rana were convicted of planning terrorism against Jyllands-Posten and were sentenced in 2013.
The Batley teacher who showed a picture in class and you couldn't bypass the paywall (even though I gave a link that Scaff said was no good because it was by the FSU)?

3 years he's been in hiding with his family with a changed name and no contact with his friends.

Salman Rushdie?

1729021237132.png


Got him after decades of protection.

You guys talk about respecting Islam - that is NOT respect, it is fear pure and ****ing simple.

Imagine what that feels like. Just for drawing a cartoon. Imagine how it felt being stabbed for doing what we have posted here: reproducing an image of Mo but on the street in ****ing Hyde Park.

I have no issue with any religion.
I do with most of them. Satanism, ironically, probably one of the least along with Jainism.
People are free to believe what they want.
Yep. I live by seeing the person in front of me. I don't let their beliefs dictate how I treat them as a professional. I've almost been suspended because I went above the duty of care expected for a patient who happened to be a Muslim.
From a point of personal experience all the Muslims I’ve interacted with have been fantastic and wonderful people. Warm, caring and generous.

They have views which clash with my own of LBGTQ+ people. However we work along side many different people. Would it surprise you that my good friend who I’ve worked with on the daily for the last 8 years or more has gay friends in work and on social media along with his family and friends who are out in Pakistan. At no point have those people we worked with ever been on the end of a religious rant about what is correct in their eyes etc.

Sorry but I don’t watch football. It’s not my bag as they say. I did a quick Google and while it’s a shame a Muslim country is still behaving in this manner to minorities etc. it’s not unsurprising and given how hardline some countries can be, especially when religion is involved.
Where LGBT is criminalised:

1729020841090.png


Islam and Christianity in particular are cancerous for LGBT rights, although some of the nominally Christian countries have some of the best rights for them.

I'm not sure if there's been an updated poll:

This isn’t specific to Islamic Nations though.
I boycotted it because of the borderline slaves they used which led to thousands of unnecessary deaths. See how LGBT symbols were treated during the tournament.

Look up the Kafala system.
 
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What constitutes force here? @Sprite didn't imply as much, but would individuals conditioning association on adherence to standards, however arbitrary (like not depicting Mohammed or consuming alcohol or pork), and terminating association on noncompliance constitute force? Why or why not?
Why would that constitute force if the association is voluntary? It's only force if the association is mandatory.

I will say I have no strong desire to depict Mohammed (I'm not a fan of pedophiles), but I do drink. I've actually opted to not drink in others' presence, only it was due to acknowledgement of and respect for their recovery efforts rather than any specific delusion. Now if I want to eat pork and someone asks me not to eat pork or they'll cease association with me, well...bye.
That's just common courtesy. You're voluntarily supporting an associate's recovery by choosing not to put a challenge in front of them. That's admirable.

But when the person in question tries to prohibit you from drinking - even when outside their presence, because they think drinking is an abomination - they are forcing their version of acceptability on you. That ish will not be tolerated.
 
The cartoonists?


The Batley teacher who showed a picture in class and you couldn't bypass the paywall (even though I gave a link that Scaff said was no good because it was by the FSU)?

3 years he's been in hiding with his family with a changed name and no contact with his friends.

Salman Rushdie?
Extremists are bad people. Especially when they commit crimes under the orders of theocracies.

You guys talk about respecting Islam - that is NOT respect, it is fear pure and ****ing simple.
Where did I do that? I'll show courtesy to people up until the time they stop showing courtesy to me. I won't show discourtesy to people just because their fellow religionists commit crimes. I'm sorry if this makes you angry but it's a personal choice.
 
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Extremists are bad people. Especially when they commit crimes under the orders of theocracies.
Extremists, extremists, extremists....

Where are the other "extremists" in such numbers? It's not even the world's largest religion!

Did you look at the extent of the uproar? Are they all extremists? The worst international relations incident for a country for decades is down to....extremists?! :lol:
Where did I do that?
Most of this forum seems stuck in 2000s-2010s thinking.

Look around and you'll see the world has changed drastically.
 
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Extremists, extremists, extremists....

Where are the other "extremists" in such numbers? It's not even the world's largest religion!

Did you look at the extent of the uproar? Are they all extremists? The worst international relations incident for a country for decades is down to....extremists?! :lol:
It's down to theocracy.
Most of this forum seems stuck in 2000s-2010s thinking.
You're lumping us all together in much the same way you're lumping every Muslim I meet with what the worst people in their religion are doing. So yes, extremists.
 
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Extremists, extremists, extremists....

Where are the other "extremists" in such numbers? It's not even the world's largest religion!
You have one lot that's turning India into a theocratic Hindu nationalist state. Another currently doing all it can to get its flag waver elected to the highest office in the US (with an aim to also turn it into a theocratic nationaliststate), the same group that has successfully funded huge changes in law, codifying homophoba in numerous African states.

That's without the genocidal pogrom Israel is currently engaged in.

Most of this forum seems stuck in 2000s-2010s thinking.

Look around and you'll see the world has changed drastically.

It's about time you actually explained this. Rather than anymore cryptic nonsense.
 
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