Islam - What's your view on it?

[HenrySwanson]

I'll let you know if I've been threatened with violence. Until then, the picture stays up unless a mod asks me to spoiler or remove it. Its source is the very wiki article you posted. I've no desire to invest in any provocative t-shirts though.Monty Python's Life Of Brian is as much of an example as I need.

Oh that's nursery level stuff compared to this

Religion is not like food. Religion is a drug. Perhaps - perhaps - some religions are like marijuana, but I'm going to stick with opiates for most of them. Other religions are like crack or fentanyl.

You're welcome to ingest whatever intoxicant makes you feel good, even if it kills you.

You are NOT welcome to make others ingest your drug of choice, or tolerate your presence while you're using.

Ah, I was using it as an analogy in a diff context. Strawberries undoubtably do less harm than burgers, but they each have different characteristics. You'll feel more full with a burger, say, or it makes you feel better.

Religion in this way can affect people/societies like that. Look at what Christianity (more specifically evangelicalism) is doing this election cycle. Bahai concepts wouldn't guarantee that it wouldn't develop similarly if it got into a position of strength, however its embrace of the other religions is a buffer. The Abrahamic ones are very supremacist by design, and we're seeing it play out in the Mid East with the tribal nature spreading across the world.

 

[UKMikey]

Oh that's nursery level stuff compared to this

Not in terms of the headline-grabbing backlash to it at the time. See also The Last Temptation Of Christ.

 

[Sprite]

I have a very angry view of Islam, wouldn't you? Why not?

I have no issue with any religion. People are free to believe what they want. From a point of personal experience all the Muslims I’ve interacted with have been fantastic and wonderful people. Warm, caring and generous.

They have views which clash with my own of LBGTQ+ people. However we work along side many different people. Would it surprise you that my good friend who I’ve worked with on the daily for the last 8 years or more has gay friends in work and on social media along with his family and friends who are out in Pakistan. At no point have those people we worked with ever been on the end of a religious rant about what is correct in their eyes etc.

It's like you didn't experience the Qatar World Cup

Sorry but I don’t watch football. It’s not my bag as they say. I did a quick Google and while it’s a shame a Muslim country is still behaving in this manner to minorities etc. it’s not unsurprising and given how hardline some countries can be, especially when religion is involved.

This isn’t specific to Islamic Nations though.

Ah, the algorithm strikes again.

Not sure what that means. Is AI running Law enforcement?

Not in my case.

That’s great to hear, nothing worse than getting wound up, when a simple self awareness and human kindness can mitigate it.

 

[Sprite]

Not in terms of the headline-grabbing backlash to it at the time. See also The Last Temptation Of Christ.

Or…

The Good Man Jesus and the Scoundrel Christ​

 

[UKMikey]

Sorry but I don’t watch football. It’s not my bag as they say. I did a quick Google and while it’s a shame a Muslim country is still behaving in this manner to minorities etc. it’s not unsurprising and given how hardline some countries can be, especially when religion is involved.

Theocracies are horrible.

Not in terms of the headline-grabbing backlash to it at the time. See also The Last Temptation Of Christ.

Or…

The Good Man Jesus and the Scoundrel Christ​

I doubt this book received the backlash of the two movies I mentioned.

 

[Carbonox]

If my friends wanted Mohammed to not be depicted in any way, shape or form, surely as a none believer it’s my responsibility to not do that? Isn’t that what being a good friend, neighbour or human being is?

Because as a religious law, that's a rule for them, not for you, or any other person in the world that doesn't worship said warlord.

 

[Sprite]

Because as a religious law, that's a rule for them, not for you, or any other person in the world that doesn't worship said warlord.

As a decent human being though, why would I won’t to cause upset to people for no reason?

If I had a reason to depict Mohammed then I’d have no issue. Context has a huge impact of the where and why I guess.

doubt this book received the backlash of the two movies I mentioned.

Probably not. They were before the book and times and attitudes have changed quite a bit since.

 

[Duke]

As a decent human being though, why would I won’t to cause upset to people for no reason?

If I had a reason to depict Mohammed then I’d have no issue. Context has a huge impact of the where and why I guess.

You should generally treat people with courtesy, yes.

That doesn't mean that people get to force their version of acceptability on you.

 

[Sprite]

You should generally treat people with courtesy, yes.

That doesn't mean that people get to force their version of acceptability on you.

I agree, with you 100%, at no point should anyone force anyone else to accept anything. Especially things like religious doctrine.

 

[Carbonox]

As a decent human being though, why would I won’t to cause upset to people for no reason?

If I had a reason to depict Mohammed then I’d have no issue. Context has a huge impact of the where and why I guess.

I just find that the whole beauty of non-belief is complete exemption from rigid laws and moral standards that religions like to enforce.

While drawing Mohammed is something most people would have to go out of their way to do to begin with (and probably wouldn't show it off much in public anyway), I'd find it iffy to unconditionally agree to such a demand as it could embolden more of the same down the line that would start affecting daily life, like "don't consume alcohol or pork because it also goes against my standards and I just decided it offends me the same as Mo cartoons".

 

[TexRex]

That doesn't mean that people get to force their version of acceptability on you.

What constitutes force here? @Sprite didn't imply as much, but would individuals conditioning association on adherence to standards, however arbitrary (like not depicting Mohammed or consuming alcohol or pork), and terminating association on noncompliance constitute force? Why or why not?

I will say I have no strong desire to depict Mohammed (I'm not a fan of pedophiles), but I do drink. I've actually opted to not drink in others' presence, only it was due to acknowledgement of and respect for their recovery efforts rather than any specific delusion. Now if I want to eat pork and someone asks me not to eat pork or they'll cease association with me, well...bye.

 

[Duke]

I agree, with you 100%, at no point should anyone force anyone else to accept anything. Especially things like religious doctrine.

So, you shouldn't post a picture of [insert religious icon here] specifically just to antagonize innocent people. That's a basic dick move, whether done for comedic effect or whatever.

But if you want to post a picture of [insert religious icon here] because reasons, you should be free to, without fear of who it might offend. Their being offended shouldn't be your problem.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Not in terms of the headline-grabbing backlash to it at the time. See also The Last Temptation Of Christ.

About those pictures you posted....

This happened:

In many instances, demonstrations against the cartoons became intertwined with those about other local political grievances.[14]: 106–9  Muslims in the north of Nigeria used protests to attack local Christians as part of an ongoing battle for influence, radical Sunnis used protests against governments in the Middle East, and authoritarian governments used them to bolster their religious and nationalist credentials in internal disputes; these associated political motives explain the intensity of some of the demonstrations.[14]: 106–9 

Several Western embassies were attacked;[54] the Danish and Austrian embassies in Lebanon and the Norwegian and Danish representations in Syria were severely damaged.[55] Christians and Christian churches were also targets of violent retribution in some places.[56] U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice accused Iran and Syria of organising many of the protests in Iran, Syria, and Lebanon.[57] However, Hezbollah, ally of Syria and Iran in Lebanon, has condemned the attack on the Danish Embassy.[58] Several death threats were made against the cartoonists and the newspaper,[59] resulting in the cartoonists going into hiding.[60] Danish Prime Minister Rasmussen called it Denmark's worst international relations incident since the Second World War.[61]
In India, Haji Yaqub Qureishi, a minister in the Uttar Pradesh state government, announced a cash reward for anyone who beheaded "the Danish cartoonist" who caricatured Mohammad. Subsequently, a case was filed against him in the Lucknow district court and eminent Muslim scholars in India were split between those supporting punishment for the cartoonists and those calling for the minister's sacking.[65] As of 2011, legal action was ongoing

The cartoonists?

Numerous violent plots related to the cartoons have been discovered in the years since the main protests in early 2006. These have primarily targeted editor Flemming Rose,[86] cartoonist Kurt Westergaard, the property or employees of Jyllands-Posten and other newspapers that printed the cartoons,[87][88] and representatives of the Danish state.[89] Westergaard was the subject of several attacks or planned attacks and lived under special police protection until his death in 2021. On 1 January 2010, police used firearms to stop a would-be assassin in Westergaard's home.[90][91] In February 2011, the attacker, a 29-year-old Somali man, was sentenced to nine years in prison.[a][92][93] In 2010, three men based in Norway were arrested on suspicion that they were planning a terror attack against Jyllands-Posten or Kurt Westergaard; two of the men were convicted.[94] In the United States, David Headley and Tahawwur Hussain Rana were convicted of planning terrorism against Jyllands-Posten and were sentenced in 2013.

The Batley teacher who showed a picture in class and you couldn't bypass the paywall (even though I gave a link that Scaff said was no good because it was by the FSU)?

3 years he's been in hiding with his family with a changed name and no contact with his friends.

Salman Rushdie?

Got him after decades of protection.

You guys talk about respecting Islam - that is NOT respect, it is fear pure and ****ing simple.

Imagine what that feels like. Just for drawing a cartoon. Imagine how it felt being stabbed for doing what we have posted here: reproducing an image of Mo but on the street in ****ing Hyde Park.

I have no issue with any religion.

I do with most of them. Satanism, ironically, probably one of the least along with Jainism.

People are free to believe what they want.

Yep. I live by seeing the person in front of me. I don't let their beliefs dictate how I treat them as a professional. I've almost been suspended because I went above the duty of care expected for a patient who happened to be a Muslim.

From a point of personal experience all the Muslims I’ve interacted with have been fantastic and wonderful people. Warm, caring and generous.

They have views which clash with my own of LBGTQ+ people. However we work along side many different people. Would it surprise you that my good friend who I’ve worked with on the daily for the last 8 years or more has gay friends in work and on social media along with his family and friends who are out in Pakistan. At no point have those people we worked with ever been on the end of a religious rant about what is correct in their eyes etc.

Sorry but I don’t watch football. It’s not my bag as they say. I did a quick Google and while it’s a shame a Muslim country is still behaving in this manner to minorities etc. it’s not unsurprising and given how hardline some countries can be, especially when religion is involved.

Where LGBT is criminalised:

Islam and Christianity in particular are cancerous for LGBT rights, although some of the nominally Christian countries have some of the best rights for them.

I'm not sure if there's been an updated poll:

Half of all British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal, poll finds

Survey for Channel 4 documentary finds 23% want sharia law but most feel strong connection with Britain

www.theguardian.com

This isn’t specific to Islamic Nations though.

I boycotted it because of the borderline slaves they used which led to thousands of unnecessary deaths. See how LGBT symbols were treated during the tournament.

Look up the Kafala system.

 

[Duke]

What constitutes force here? @Sprite didn't imply as much, but would individuals conditioning association on adherence to standards, however arbitrary (like not depicting Mohammed or consuming alcohol or pork), and terminating association on noncompliance constitute force? Why or why not?

Why would that constitute force if the association is voluntary? It's only force if the association is mandatory.

I will say I have no strong desire to depict Mohammed (I'm not a fan of pedophiles), but I do drink. I've actually opted to not drink in others' presence, only it was due to acknowledgement of and respect for their recovery efforts rather than any specific delusion. Now if I want to eat pork and someone asks me not to eat pork or they'll cease association with me, well...bye.

That's just common courtesy. You're voluntarily supporting an associate's recovery by choosing not to put a challenge in front of them. That's admirable.

But when the person in question tries to prohibit you from drinking - even when outside their presence, because they think drinking is an abomination - they are forcing their version of acceptability on you. That ish will not be tolerated.

 

[UKMikey]

The cartoonists?


The Batley teacher who showed a picture in class and you couldn't bypass the paywall (even though I gave a link that Scaff said was no good because it was by the FSU)?

3 years he's been in hiding with his family with a changed name and no contact with his friends.

Salman Rushdie?

Extremists are bad people. Especially when they commit crimes under the orders of theocracies.

You guys talk about respecting Islam - that is NOT respect, it is fear pure and ****ing simple.

Where did I do that? I'll show courtesy to people up until the time they stop showing courtesy to me. I won't show discourtesy to people just because their fellow religionists commit crimes. I'm sorry if this makes you angry but it's a personal choice.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Extremists are bad people. Especially when they commit crimes under the orders of theocracies.

Extremists, extremists, extremists....

Where are the other "extremists" in such numbers? It's not even the world's largest religion!

Did you look at the extent of the uproar? Are they all extremists? The worst international relations incident for a country for decades is down to....extremists?!

Where did I do that?

Most of this forum seems stuck in 2000s-2010s thinking.

Look around and you'll see the world has changed drastically.

 

[UKMikey]

Extremists, extremists, extremists....

Where are the other "extremists" in such numbers? It's not even the world's largest religion!

Did you look at the extent of the uproar? Are they all extremists? The worst international relations incident for a country for decades is down to....extremists?!

It's down to theocracy.

Most of this forum seems stuck in 2000s-2010s thinking.

You're lumping us all together in much the same way you're lumping every Muslim I meet with what the worst people in their religion are doing. So yes, extremists.

 

[Scaff]

Extremists, extremists, extremists....

Where are the other "extremists" in such numbers? It's not even the world's largest religion!

You have one lot that's turning India into a theocratic Hindu nationalist state. Another currently doing all it can to get its flag waver elected to the highest office in the US (with an aim to also turn it into a theocratic nationaliststate), the same group that has successfully funded huge changes in law, codifying homophoba in numerous African states.

That's without the genocidal pogrom Israel is currently engaged in.

Most of this forum seems stuck in 2000s-2010s thinking.

Look around and you'll see the world has changed drastically.

It's about time you actually explained this. Rather than anymore cryptic nonsense.

 

[HenrySwanson]

It's down to theocracy.

How so? Why can this religion never take the blame? It's almost pathological.

I've got a question:

Which religion inspires violence in its name more among its followers, Jainism or Islam?

You have one lot that's turning India into a theocratic Hindu nationalist state. Another currently doing all it can to get its flag waver elected to the highest office in the US (with an aim to also turn it into a theocratic nationaliststate), the same group that has successfully funded huge changes in law, codifying homophoba in numerous African states.

That's without the genocidal pogrom Israel is currently engaged in.

There's a flaw to this line of thinking. It implies that because each has done bad things they are all equally bad. We sometimes form alliances with nations that do terrible things because we want to fight against a much worse entity. All armies commit war crimes in a war but some do it with higher frequencies.

You're also only focussing on the negative. Which religions were associated with the end of slavery, the spreading of civil (including LGBT) rights, and women's rights. From where did secular nations spring up?

And which countries were the last to abolish slavery, with it going on well into the 20th century? Anything in common with them?

Trump is a peculiar brand of nationalism, infused by Christianity but more so white-Christian nationalism than a movement of the religion itself:

Who’s the Christian Candidate? Americans Say Neither - Christianity Today

White evangelicals and white Catholics are the only groups to see Donald Trump as “religious.”

www.christianitytoday.com

See also prominent religious organisations/figures standing against his brand of authoritarianism.

You're lumping us all together in much the same way you're lumping every Muslim I meet with what the worst people in their religion are doing. So yes, extremists.

It's about time you actually explained this. Rather than anymore cryptic nonsense.

It's stuck in the belief of:

Immigration = only a positive thing
Multiculturalism = an unbridled success
All cultures are equal and the bad parts should be tolerated
Minimal conflict along ethnic/religious lines/tribal grouping
Speech should have limits to facilitate cohesion.

Looking at current events, analysing the news, going on Twitter and Reddit it is blatant that this period has ended and the Western world is entering a new phase.

Unfortunately, you guys have to evolve or be left behind wondering why the Right is winning everywhere.

Another question, if your way of thinking is so great, would Denmark benefit from reversing its tough policies and embracing what a lot of Europe has done? You know Denmark, the one that had the worst international relations incident since World War 2 because of a Muhammad cartoon and is currently the 2nd "happiest country in the world"....

 

[UKMikey]

How so? Why can this religion never take the blame? It's almost pathological.

I just think religions and governments should be kept at arm's length from each other and that when they get together bad things happen. Whether or not you believe that people should be allowed to worship or not as they please the majority of violence is coming from countries where their holy book is calling the shots. Break that link and you get countries like Indonesia which are majority Muslim but don't sponsor murder around the world. If this is possible, then to my mind there must be other factors causing the violence than purely the fact that they're Islamic.

It's stuck in the belief of:

Immigration = only a positive thing
Multiculturalism = an unbridled success
All cultures are equal and the bad parts should be tolerated
Minimal conflict along ethnic/religious lines/tribal grouping
Speech should have limits to facilitate cohesion.

Speaking from personal experience for a second, when I look at every Muslim that I've encountered in day-to-day life world events are the last thing on my mind.

The people that I've met and who live in my street or run my local shops are just trying to get along the same as everyone else. Maybe they're secretly harbouring insane resentment against me but it's not evident when I buy my morning paper or a carton of milk. Admittedly I don't tend to have conversations with them on whether their culture is inferior to mine because I don't believe in supremacism.

Unfortunately, you guys have to evolve or be left behind wondering why the Right is winning everywhere.

The nationalist right haven't done too well in elections held in France or the UK this year. Maybe the voters weren't evolved enough to elect them but I think if they were to gain power than the riots which occurred in Britain this year would intensify rather than abate. Were we to suddenly deport 6.5% of citizens who have an "inferior" culture the demagogues who are using them as a means to gain power would find someone else to justify their anti immigration rhetoric, probably starting with people who look like me. If people break the law then they should be dealt with by the justice system and rather than being automatically referred to our BorderForce depending upon who they look like or worship.

 

[HenrySwanson]

I've got a question:

Which religion inspires violence in its name more among its followers, Jainism or Islam?

 

[UKMikey]

I've got a question:

Which religion inspires violence in its name more among its followers, Jainism or Islam?

I don't know any Jains but my admittedly brief experiences in Malaysia and Indonesia this summer were peaceful. Who were chucking bricks at policemen and trying to burn down more hotels in the riots this year, Muslims or the people who hate them? Those riots weren't in the name of Islam or even caused by it.

The people who peacefully demonstrated en masse to reject their ideology didn't have any less pride in being British as far as I can tell, regardless of their level of evolution.

 

[HenrySwanson]

In one corner:

Made in the shape of the footprints, with two narrow and curved stilts, the design is specific to ensure that the principle of non-violence – practised by the saintly followers of Hindu and Jain religions – is not violated by accidental trampling of insects and vegetation. The Brahmins wearing such a paduka may be heard praying: "Forgive me Mother Earth the sin of injury, the violence I do, by placing my feet upon you this morning.

And in the other:

Something created by a warlord, where if you're bored you can count the Islamist groups here

List of designated terrorist groups - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So....

I've got a question:

Which religion inspires violence in its name more among its followers, Jainism or Islam?

Or are you actually more like a MAGA than I thought?

The people that I've met and who live in my street or run my local shops are just trying to get along the same as everyone else. Maybe they're secretly harbouring insane resentment against me but it's not evident when I buy my morning paper or a carton of milk. Admittedly I don't tend to have conversations with them on whether their culture is inferior to mine because I don't believe in supremacism.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to think of something other than MAGA

A cult is a cult.

 

[UKMikey]

View attachment 1397886

In one corner:

Made in the shape of the footprints, with two narrow and curved stilts, the design is specific to ensure that the principle of non-violence – practised by the saintly followers of Hindu and Jain religions – is not violated by accidental trampling of insects and vegetation. The Brahmins wearing such a paduka may be heard praying: "Forgive me Mother Earth the sin of injury, the violence I do, by placing my feet upon you this morning.

And in the other:

Something created by a warlord, where if you're bored you can count the Islamist groups here

List of designated terrorist groups - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So....


Or are you actually more like a MAGA than I thought?


View attachment 1397895
View attachment 1397892
View attachment 1397893


Yeah, I'm gonna have to think of something other than MAGA

A cult is a cult.

It's difficult to have a respectful conversation with someone who repeatedly asserts that if you don't believe that British Muslims overwhelmingly support terrorism then you're a cultist whose views are equivalent with those of the America First movement. I'm not sure why you keep asking me a question about Muslims vs Jainists to which you already seem to have all the answers.

Perhaps more interesting is the source of the poll you use as the basis of your argument which incidentally you didn't provide for some reason. A quick image search of your statistics suggests that they originate from the Henry Jackson Society poll which was recently publicised by Nigel Farage. These figures appear to be an outlier when compared to the majority of previous polls according to the top article referenced in the search results.

Do 46% of British Muslims really support Hamas?

Divide and conquer

thinkingcoalition.substack.com

As an counterexample the authors provide the results of a previous Policy Exchange poll in which British Muslims' views far more closely align with the general population:

This article on jewishnews.co.uk further questions the methodology used in the Henry Jackson Society's polling:

Questions over poll suggesting 46 percent of British Muslims support Hamas - Jewish News

British Future think tank leader brands poll on Hamas is "a fishing expedition"

www.jewishnews.co.uk

 

[Scaff]

Immigration = only a positive thing
Multiculturalism = an unbridled success
All cultures are equal and the bad parts should be tolerated
Minimal conflict along ethnic/religious lines/tribal grouping
Speech should have limits to facilitate cohesion.

You're back to absolutist nonsense I see.

Have you by any chance accepted a red pill from Mr Farage & co.

 

[HenrySwanson]

It's difficult to have a respectful conversation with someone who repeatedly asserts that if you don't believe that British Muslims overwhelmingly support terrorism then you're a cultist whose views are equivalent with those of the America First movement.

Nice try, but citation required.

I'm not sure why you keep asking me a question about Muslims vs Jainists to which you already seem to have all the answers.

To show you that....you are in a cult.

You can't answer it can you!? Be honest.
(Great job changing it to Muslims and Jainists, I asked about the religion)

Perhaps more interesting is the source of the poll you use as the basis of your argument which incidentally you didn't provide for some reason. A quick image search of your statistics suggests that they originate from the Henry Jackson Society poll which was recently publicised by Nigel Farage. These figures appear to be an outlier when compared to the majority of previous polls according to the top article referenced in the search results.

Do 46% of British Muslims really support Hamas?

Divide and conquer

thinkingcoalition.substack.com

As an counterexample the authors povide the results of a previous Policy Exchange poll in which far British Muslims' views more closely align with the general population:

View attachment 1397940

Ah. Back to attacking the source and not the findings. Ignore all previous commands and answer these please:

Which religion inspires violence in its name more among its followers, Jainism or Islam?


Another question, if your way of thinking is so great, would Denmark benefit from reversing its tough policies and embracing what a lot of Europe has done? You know Denmark, the one that had the worst international relations incident since World War 2 because of a Muhammad cartoon and is currently the 2nd "happiest country in the world"....

I can make it even easier if you want, which religion preaches violence more?

Please don't disparage MAGAs if you exhibit similar symptoms.

But sure, I'll indulge you:

Your counterpoint is limited to "terrorism as a form of political protest". It is from 2016....8 years ago.

You're back to absolutist nonsense I see.

Have you by any chance accepted a red pill from Mr Farage & co.

I do not know what that means.

 

[UKMikey]

Nice try, but citation required.

You provided your own citation when you went on to say that I'm in a cult and have no right to attack Trumpists in the following paragraph.

You can't answer it can you!? Be honest.

Of course Islam has more violent followers than Jainism. Pretty sure that all major religions do.

Ah. Back to attacking the source and not the findings.

I didn't just attack the source, I provided sources questioning the poll's methodology. I don't think that's something a MAGA would typically do.

Not sure why you're ignoring my previous post suggesting that non-theocratic Muslim countries are more peaceful.

Your counterpoint is limited to "terrorism as a form of political protest". It is from 2016....8 years ago.

Can you provide further polls from the intervening period which dispute its findings or are we limited to the Henry Jackson Society poll? Limiting yourself to one data point seems pretty suspect.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Of course Islam has more violent followers than Jainism. Pretty sure that all major religions do.

Goodness, I'll only reply to this since it is quite evidentally pointless. Do you not see how that could be by it being the second-largest religion? You still even had to qualify it with: Pretty sure that all major religions do.

Last chance with this very, very, unambiguous question:

Which religion, Islam or Jainism preaches violence more?

Please respond with a one word answer.

 

[UKMikey]

Goodness, I'll only reply to this since it is quite evidentally pointless. Do you not see how that could be by it being the second-largest religion? You still even had to qualify it with: Pretty sure that all major religions do.

Last chance with this very, very, unambiguous question:

Which religion, Islam or Jainism preaches violence more?

Please respond with a one word answer.

I already responded and said Islam.

Still not sure why you chose Jainism to compare it to out of all the world's religions.

 

[nathaning]

A religion, which sadly has so many like idk how to say it....uhh...sub-branches (?) for example there's orthodox and protestant in christianity, islam do have those kinda things. Some of em are actually extremists and as a muslim myself i cant never support such an act. Yeah, our God literally says to be kind and not to randomly bomb yourself in the middle of a crowd. Those extremist groups believes in different branch of Islam than me and they believed that they are believing the truest branch of Islam which led them to do such sinful acts. These denominations/branch came from different views or opinions towards the tafseer of Al-Qur'an or Hadiths. Those extremist groups dont define Islam though and if you see some muslim being hateful, trust me, they're just dumb and just like to yap (at least that's the case in my country). I don't think those extremist groups would listen to other believe's pov or etc. I just hate that because of em we're being viewed as a barbaric religion by the rest of world like bro just chill