Israel - Palestine discussion thread

[inCloud]

It's amazing how precise Israel can be when they try.

When target is at surface its possible, you cant be precise with bunker buster bombs. HAMAS doesn't openly walking around Gaza - they exclusively using tunnels and bunkers under civilian buildings. That's why there are alot of casualties, not because Israel wants them.

 

[Liquid]

That's why there are alot of casualties, not because Israel wants them.

Or both.

 

[inCloud]

Or both.

Yeah, worldwide protests against warcrimes, warrant from ICC and drop of already low support from Israeli is wet dream of Netaniahu, sure.

 

[Imari]

Yeah, worldwide protests against warcrimes, warrant from ICC and drop of already low support from Israeli is wet dream of Netaniahu, sure.

Have you paid any attention to the last 40 years or so? Seems like not. Bibi would turn Israel into a global pariah in a second if it came in exchange for exterminating all Palestinians and taking over all the contested lands.

 

[CMGMS]

I am a Muslim, but these are facts..

1. It is a shame if the Israeli people think this way of fighting is correct.

2. If the Israeli people tell the state not to fight like this, this war is unfair, you cannot be angry with those Israelis.

3. If an Israeli person does not want to fight and says this war is bad. What is that person's fault when he goes to another country?

4. Not every Israeli can be bad. But if he utters evil sanctions or words against other people or other religions due to religion, then he is the real evil person.
True Islam has this. Even if he is an enemy, if he does not even believe in God, that is his problem. After all, humans or animals carry a life. You cannot decide whether he lives or dies.

5. People who say yes, what Israel is doing is right. He thinks wrong. israel palestine - russia ukraine. These are not true.




war is always bad.

 

[inCloud]

Bibi would turn Israel into a global pariah in a second if it came in exchange for exterminating all Palestinians and taking over all the contested lands.

AFAIK, Gaza is still here. Israel could demolish it with one bomb or hundred of conventional ones.

It is a shame if the Israeli people think this way of fighting is correct

Guess, there isn't any correct way to do it. You either:
1) do not react at all and look weak, which is automatically means troubles for Israel. Big war with Hezbollah + constant attacks from Gaza, possibly.
2) bomb HVTs with bunker busters and dozens civilians dead each time
3) try to occupy 2 million Gaza with 500.000 soldiers, which would be disaster.

 

[Joey D]

Israel isn't interested in peace talks, especially if it's targeting areas in other countries. I don't know what their end goal is here because they can't possibly fight on all the fronts, unless they're banking the US to fly in and save their asses like we always do.

Also:

UN report says Palestinians detained by Israeli authorities since Oct. 7 faced torture, mistreatment

The U.N. human rights office has issued a report saying Palestinians detained by Israeli authorities since the Oct. 7 attacks have faced waterboarding, sleep deprivation, electric shocks and other forms of torture and mistreatment.

apnews.com

Good to see the Israelis are no better than the terrorists they fight.

 

[Joey D]

Perfectly non-genocidal thing to say:

Western allies condemn Israeli finance minister's suggestion that starving Gaza might be justified

Israel’s Western allies have condemned remarks by its far-right finance minister, who suggested that causing the starvation of Gaza’s population of more than 2 million Palestinians “might be just and moral” until Hamas-held hostages are released.

apnews.com

“It’s not possible in today’s global reality to manage a war — no one will allow us to starve 2 million people, even though that might be just and moral until they return the hostages,” he said at a conference in support of Jewish settlements.

Do you know what other group of people starved and mistreated a population because they thought it was "moral"? The Nazi. Out of any group that should understand this, I would assume it would be the Israelis.

 

[Blitz24]

Smotrich should not have been eligible to be part of the government and I am astounded that nobody stopped his appointment.

 

[Joey D]

Imagine bombing cemeteries and taking corpses:

As Gaza death toll passes 40,000, corpses are buried in yards, streets, tiered graves

As the death toll passes 40,000, Palestinians are burying corpses in yards, streets and tiered graves.

apnews.com

Palestinians move corpses, shielding them from the path of war. Israel’s military has dug up, plowed over and bombed more than 20 cemeteries, according to satellite imagery analyzed by investigative outlet Bellingcat. Troops have taken scores of bodies into Israel, searching for hostages. Trucked back to Gaza, the bodies are often decomposed and unidentifiable, buried quickly in a mass grave.

 

[Duke]

Good to see the Israelis are no better than the terrorists they fight.

But they ARE better, because they absolutely sit at the Right Hand of God... God said so!

 

[Sprite]

Imagine bombing cemeteries and taking corpses:

As Gaza death toll passes 40,000, corpses are buried in yards, streets, tiered graves

As the death toll passes 40,000, Palestinians are burying corpses in yards, streets and tiered graves.

apnews.com

For me this takes the invasion/war to a whole new level as it’s an attack on a specific religious belief.

While all people around the world treat their dead in different ways from burial, cremation, dismemberment to be fed to wild animals etc. as far as I understand it, for Muslims the body is a big part of the end of days. So for these to be disturbed has quite a significant impact on them.

 

[MIE1992]

I do admit that I'm now more curious about Palestinian culture, and as a result, I'm hoping to visit a Palestinian restaurant in NYC sometime. I suppose I just wish it was during better circumstances.

 

[Joey D]

Killing a doctor who's an American citizen is certainly a choice:

American woman fatally shot in the West Bank, doctors say

Two doctors told The Associated Press that an American woman was shot and killed in the West Bank. Dr.

apnews.com

 

[Fezzik]

An impressive mass sabotage operation by the Israelis

At least eight people were killed and 2,800 wounded in an attack that targeted pagers held by members of Iran-backed Lebanese militant group Hezbollah across Lebanon on Tuesday, according to the country’s health minister. Iran’s ambassador to Lebanon was one of those injured, according to Iranian state media.

Obviously no regard for any collateral damage, but hey who cares about another war crime at this point?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

An impressive mass sabotage operation by the Israelis


Obviously no regard for any collateral damage, but hey who cares about another war crime at this point?

Anyone else feel like this is more or less an indiscriminate terrorist attack? Israel sure isn't going out of their way to make themselves look like the good guys lately....

 

[Liquid]

And blatantly attacking Iran and Iranian citizens in a third-party country again, after the consulate bombing in Syria.

 

[Duke]

Anyone else feel like this is more or less an indiscriminate terrorist attack? Israel sure isn't going out of their way to make themselves look like the good guys lately....

They sit at the Right Hand Of God. They can do no wrong.

Hardline Israeli expansionism is what created Hamas and what keeps it alive.

The sooner that can be admitted, the sooner we can develop a 2-state compromise, and the sooner we can see some small amount of peace in the region.

 

[HenrySwanson]

They sit at the Right Hand Of God. They can do no wrong.

Hardline Israeli expansionism is what created Hamas and what keeps it alive.

The sooner that can be admitted, the sooner we can develop a 2-state compromise, and the sooner we can see some small amount of peace in the region.

When was the last time there was peace in that region?

 

[Duke]

That’s why I specified a small amount.

 

[HenrySwanson]

I'm trying to make sense of the 20th and 21st century flare ups in the area, but it seems to be a constant cycle of violence. Would you consider the times in between those outbursts as what we should be aiming for?

FWIW I also want the 2 state solution and think it's the best outcome - but I'm not sure it will realistically change all that much in terms of violent confrontations. It's sad.

 

[Duke]

What we should be aiming for is an Israel that doesn't herd Palestinians onto reservations, then compress those reservations until they explode.

Palestine existed as a country (well, a colony) until the British completely screwed up their abandonment of it, much like the French screwed up their abandonment of Vietnam. Coupled with the postwar creation of Israel, it was guaranteed to inflame longstanding socioreligious issues in the region.

Israel defended themselves when attacked (well, and appropriately) but then badly overstepped their moral position by aggressive expansionism. Palestinians had already been uprooted from their homes to create Israel in 1947. Israel has since continued to uproot Palestinians and occupy their territory. Netanyahu is the latest and a long-standing prime minister to give hard line support of this policy.

It's really no wonder that Hamas has resorted to terrorism. That doesn't excuse it, but it's not rocket science to figure out why it's happened, if the Israelis could bother to be at all self-critical.

 

[Danoff]

The pager attack is just straight terrorism. It's not a careless military campaign, it's just a terrorism. At this point we're not just supporting a military that sees collateral damage as something of a bonus, we're supporting terrorists.

 

[Joey D]

Me, looking at my work pager sitting on my desk after I've been critical of Israel.

 

[Touring Mars]

Some reports coming in of new explosions linked to handheld radios in Lebanon. No reports of casualties yet.

 

[inCloud]

The pager attack is just straight terrorism.

Its most precise attack at terrorist group possible. Doing this conventional way would mean that collateral damage would be few times bigger. There are few videos how explosion is injuring terrorists and did nothing to nearby civilians.

 

[Danoff]

Its most precise attack at terrorist group possible. Doing this conventional way would mean that collateral damage would be few times bigger. There are few videos how explosion is injuring terrorists and did nothing to nearby civilians.

Doing this not at all would mean less collateral damage.

What makes you think only terrorists had pagers? What in those videos convinces you that nothing happened to anyone who wasn't the pager owner?

Edit:

From an article today:

"The death toll from Tuesday's blasts rose to 12, including two children, Lebanese Health Minister Firass Abiad said on Wednesday. Tuesday's attack wounded nearly 3,000 people, including many of the militant group's fighters and Iran's envoy to Beirut."

The article does not mention how many of the wounded were children. The reason I pick out children is because presumably you believe that these were not terrorist targets. It is proof of collateral damage.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Doing this not at all would mean less collateral damage.

What makes you think only terrorists had pagers? What in those videos convinces you that nothing happened to anyone who wasn't the pager owner?

Edit:

From an article today:

"The death toll from Tuesday's blasts rose to 12, including two children, Lebanese Health Minister Firass Abiad said on Wednesday. Tuesday's attack wounded nearly 3,000 people, including many of the militant group's fighters and Iran's envoy to Beirut."

The article does not mention how many of the wounded were children. The reason I pick out children is because presumably you believe that these were not terrorist targets. It is proof of collateral damage.

When Israel detonated the pagers, they could have had zero idea what kind of collateral damage was going to be incurred...this is by definition indiscriminate.

 

[inCloud]

Doing this not at all would mean less collateral damage.

We talking about organisation that regularly sending Iran made missiles at Israel territory, Israel could kill terrorists with JDAMs or with this precise tech.

What makes you think only terrorists had pagers

Because its Hesbollah who ordered them?

What in those videos convinces you that nothing happened to anyone who wasn't the pager owner

I didn't said that, but we can clearly see area effected and its minimal.

When Israel detonated the pagers, they could have had zero idea what kind of collateral damage was going to be incurred...this is by definition indiscriminate.

Any missile used from distance would work same way while dealing more collateral damage.

 

[Danoff]

When Israel detonated the pagers, they could have had zero idea what kind of collateral damage was going to be incurred...this is by definition indiscriminate.

They basically were like... hey we think terrorists are using pagers and hand-held radios. Let's add some explosives to those and blow them up and probably kill a few terrorists. Who cares about the rest?

We talking about organisation that regularly sending Iran made missiles at Israel territory, Israel could kill terrorists with JDAMs or with this precise tech.

This is not precise.

Because its Hesbollah who ordered them?

You assume a level of information that is almost impossible. What you pretend is that Israel knew that these pagers were going straight to known terrorists having been ordered in bulk by known terrorists. This is a fiction. Stop filling in the gaps with favorable information.

Israel recognized that suspected terrorists in a region liked using pagers and hand-held radios, and Israel planted bombs in pagers and hand-held radios in that region. That's what we know.

I didn't said that, but we can clearly see area effected.

We can clearly see the dead children in the area affected.