Israel - Palestine discussion thread

[Imari]

I agree with the statement that this is unacceptable - and yet at least 50% of that unacceptability lies with Hamas' decision to hide hostages behind the human shield of the Gazan population, which as mentioned above, is well documented.

I get where you're going with this, but Israel holds captive Palestinians also and to my knowledge they're held in Israeli civilian prisons. It appears that this idea of holding hostages in places that would create significant non-military collateral damage to attack is just standard practice for everyone in the area.

It's gross and wrong, but it's at least consistent behaviour from both sides. You could argue the scale of one side over the other just like you could argue the scale of civilian murders from one side over the other, but the general behaviour seems to be something that both sides are willing to use and therefore implicitly accept from their enemies also.

 

[Joey D]

Oh 🤬 off Netanyahu and quit begging the US for stuff:

Israel's Netanyahu blames Biden for withholding weapons. US officials say that's not the whole story

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is claiming that the United States is withholding weapons needed for the war in Gaza.

apnews.com

We really should just cut them off full stop and let the Israelis solve their own problems.

 

[Joey D]

Israel: "We're just trying to defend ourselves!"

Also Israel:

Israel turbocharges West Bank settlement expansion with largest land grab in decades

A settlement tracking group says Israel has approved the largest seizure of land in the occupied West Bank in over three decades.

apnews.com

 

[HenrySwanson]

 

[inCloud]

Adidas AG (German pronunciation: [ˈʔadiˌdas] ⓘ; stylized in all lowercase since 1949)[4] is a German athletic apparel and footwear corporation headquartered in Herzogenaurach, Bavaria, Germany. The company was started by Adolf Dassler in his mother's house. He was joined by his elder brother Rudolf in 1924 under the name Gebrüder Dassler Schuhfabrik ("Dassler Brothers Shoe Factory"). Both Dassler brothers joined the Nazi Party (NSDAP) in May 1933 and became members of the National Socialist Motor Corps.[14] Adolf took the rank of Sportwart in the Hitler Youth from 1935 until the end of the war.[15] During the war, the company was running the last sport shoe factory in Germany and predominantly supplied the Wehrmacht with shoes. In 1943, their shoe production was forced to cease operations and the company's facilities and workforce was used to manufacture anti-tank weapons. From 1942 to 1945, at least nine forced labourers were working at both sites of the company

Biggest question is how Germany gov feel about that. Guess, not OK.

 

[MIE1992]

Oh 🤬 off Netanyahu and quit begging the US for stuff:

Israel's Netanyahu blames Biden for withholding weapons. US officials say that's not the whole story

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is claiming that the United States is withholding weapons needed for the war in Gaza.

apnews.com

We really should just cut them off full stop and let the Israelis solve their own problems.

I do agree, in a sense. I was just reading an article from The Atlantic saying that Biden has been one of the most pro-Israel presidents in history, and for all that he's done for them, he was spat in the face by Netanyahu like an ungrateful brat. I may go as far as to say that an Israel that continues to be led by Netanyahu (and Likud in general) is not an Israel that best-represents American interests and ideals. (Especially with what I've heard about Israel's recent attacks on Israeli journalistic freedom.)

Now, I don't think Israel is a pariah state like some people unreasonably further to the left of me seem to say out loud, but I don't know if I believe in unconditional support for Israel anymore, either. It's just that I think Likud needs to be entirely excised from the Knesset, just as Hamas needs to be ousted from its respective leadership. I'd also say that if some far-leftists think that Israel is going to just cease to exist, they are entirely delusional. I certainly support a two-state solution, for sure, but not with these two current leaders at the helm.

 

[Duke]

Israel: "We're just trying to defend ourselves!"

Also Israel:

Israel turbocharges West Bank settlement expansion with largest land grab in decades

A settlement tracking group says Israel has approved the largest seizure of land in the occupied West Bank in over three decades.

apnews.com

Hammas are terrible. They kicked off this latest offensive, without question...

...but they did not do it in a vacuum. Hardline Israeli expansionism is what keeps the Palestinian hatred burning. Anything will explode if you compress it too much.

 

[MIE1992]

Hammas are terrible. They kicked off this latest offensive, without question...

...but they did not do it in a vacuum. Hardline Israeli expansionism is what keeps the Palestinian hatred burning. Anything will explode if you compress it too much.

Indeed, I would argue that geopolitics is an ecosystem of sorts, where virtually everything is connected. (But not in a conspiratorial way - more so something natural, like Newton's law of everything having an equal but opposite reaction.) I think the best way to disempower a group is to stop giving people a reason to keep them in power. In this case, that "reason" would be the expansion of settlements, perhaps among other linked factors.

 

[inCloud]

Biggest question is how Germany gov feel about that. Guess, not OK.

Adidas dropped Bella from ship 🤣 looks like its tradition now to sign and drop one antisemite per year for them

 

[Duke]

Adidas dropped Bella from ship 🤣 looks like its tradition now to sign and drop one antisemite per year for them

Much as most Jews would like to pretend it isn't, it is perfectly possible to be anti-Israel without being antisemitic. I have nothing special against Jewish people at all - to me all religious people are in the same bag. But I think Netanyahu and the Israeli government are asses.

 

[Joey D]

Much as most Jews would like to pretend it isn't, it is perfectly possible to be anti-Israel without being antisemitic. I have nothing special against Jewish people at all - to me all religious people are in the same bag. But I think Netanyahu and the Israeli government are asses.

My wife is Jewish, and we've had several conversations about this. She's pretty anti-Israel because, to her, what they're doing to the Palestinians is no different than what the Nazis did to her grandparents. She's been called anti-Semitic by more than one person, which always leaves me a bit confused. Like how can you be Jewish and hate Jews? Even people in her family won't talk to her anymore because she won't blindly support Israel.

 

[UKMikey]

My wife is Jewish, and we've had several conversations about this. She's pretty anti-Israel because, to her, what they're doing to the Palestinians is no different than what the Nazis did to her grandparents. She's been called anti-Semitic by more than one person, which always leaves me a bit confused. Like how can you be Jewish and hate Jews? Even people in her family won't talk to her anymore because she won't blindly support Israel.

I've also recently conversed with an ex-colleague who seems very reluctant to share his critical views about Israel openly with other Jews. (Sorry for any I'm-not-an-antisemite-I-have-a-Jewish-friend vibes)

 

[inCloud]

to be anti-Israel without being antisemitic.

Anti Israel to what point?

what they're doing to the Palestinians is no different than what the Nazis did to her grandparents.

Its stupidest take possible. Nazis intention was to erase Jews, 30% of Israeli population is Arabic. Palestinians are Arabs.

Like how can you be Jewish and hate Jews?

If you hate Jews - you antisemite, horrible person and racist. You also could hate Netanyahu and his accomplices, like half of Israel do with a passion.

Problem with this war is that there isn't any pretty decision. Middle East has no mercy and not living by 21st century humanitarian standards.

 

[Joey D]

Its stupidest take possible. Nazis intention was to erase Jews, 30% of Israeli population is Arabic. Palestinians are Arabs.

Oh shut the hell up. You're tell me that my wife, who's grandparents were in the camps has a stupid take over it? My wife's grandfather lost 9 of his siblings and was spared because he could bake. She's heard countless stories about what happened from him. If she believes it's comparable I'm going to believe her since she grew up hearing stories about what happened.

If you hate Jews - you antisemite, horrible person and racist. You also could hate Netanyahu and his accomplices, like half of Israel do with a passion.

Got it so my wife who's Jewish and hates Netanyahu and his accomplices is an antisemite, racist, and a horrible person? Respectfully go all the way to hell.

 

[inCloud]

You're tell me that my wife, who's grandparents were in the camps has a stupid take over it?

Yes.

My wife's grandfather lost 9 of his siblings and was spared because he could bake.

And she talking nonsense that is insulting to their memory. Genocide is worst thing mankind has done and what currently happens isn't one. Because there isn't intention. Right word is warcrime.

Got it so my wife who's Jewish and hates Netanyahu and his accomplices is an antisemite, racist, and a horrible person? Respectfully go all the way to hell.

You have problems with reading things?

 

[Joey D]

And she talking nonsense that is insulting to their memory. Genocide is worst thing mankind has done and what currently happens isn't one. Because there isn't intention. Right word is warcrime.

I'm not going to tell someone who's heard first hand stories from someone in the camps that they're wrong over this. That's stupid. The Israelis are committing genocide by trying to snuff out the Palestinians and run them from their homes. They're not putting them in calls but they are killing them indiscriminately.

My wife is very invested in seeing what's going on with the Israel-Hamas war and she's also very invested in WWII history. Is her take perfect? No, but no one's take it. But I'm inclined to believe her.

You have problems with reading things?

No. You said if you hate Jews your an antisemite, racist and a horrible person. You then said Netanyahu and his accomplices. So you were either saying she is an antisemite, racist, and horrible person or that she hates Netanyahu like have or Israel and is thus a Jew hater, which makes her an antisemite, racist, and a horrible person.

So I repeat. Go to hell. Attack me or whatever, but to imply my Jewish wife is an antisemite, racist, and horrible person because she (along with half of Israel) hates Netanyahu is uncalled for.

 

[inCloud]

I'm not going to tell someone who's heard first hand stories from someone in the camps that they're wrong over this.

Its you wife and you relationships. You do you. You know, my grandparents could also told some **** about Nazis from both Russian and Jewish sides.

The Israelis are committing genocide by trying to snuff out the Palestinians and run them from their homes.

With what intension? Should they just bomb Gaza without any notice?

My wife is very invested in seeing what's going on with the Israel-Hamas war and she's also very invested in WWII history.

Then, she should know about warcrimes Allies committed in Germany. Does she thinks that Allies were indistinguishable from Nazis? Its nonsense.

You said if you hate Jews your an antisemite, racist and a horrible person.

Yes

You then said Netanyahu and his accomplices

Man is warcriminal , what else should I say? Warcrimes are bad.

So you were either saying she is an antisemite, racist, and horrible person

If she hates Jews - yes. Man, I dont know you wife, how could I know if she antisemite or not?

that she hates Netanyahu like have or Israel and is thus a Jew hater, which makes her an antisemite, racist, and a horrible person.

Hate toward Netanyahu is understandable thing, man is warcriminal, its not antisemitism. Hate toward Israel is one dimensional and stupid thing, it could be symptom of antisemitism, or could be something else(part of religious US Jewish community hates Israel, for example).

 

[Joey D]

If she hates Jews - yes. Man, I dont know you wife, how could I know if she antisemite or not?

Because I told you she's Jewish. You're being exactly like her family that won't talk to her because she's critical of Israel. I get the self-loathing Jew thing, but this is rediculous.

Hate toward Netanyahu is understandable thing, man is warcriminal, its not antisemitism. Hate toward Israel is one dimensional and stupid thing, it could be symptom of antisemitism, or could be something else(part of religious US Jewish community hates Israel, for example).

You can hate Israel and not be antisemitic. I hate Israel along with everything they do in this world, yet I don't hate Jewish people. Israel is a horrible, horrible country with millions of citizens that blindly flow and obey a corrupt government. Israel is a genocidal state that's killing tens of thousands of Palestinians claiming their Hamas. And yet, I still don't hate Jewist people, because if I did hate Jews then why would I still be around my wife and son? Why would I celebrate Jewist holidays? Why would I be around my Jewish family?

You called her an antisemite, a racist, and a horrible person for because she hates Netayahu. You'll probably call me the same thing because I hate Israel. But whatever, you'll just claim that I can't read or says "wat?" like it means something while doubling down on some BS.

 

[inCloud]

I get the self-loathing Jew thing, but this is rediculous.

Why?

I hate Israel along with everything they do in this world, yet I don't hate Jewish people. Israel is a horrible, horrible country with millions of citizens that blindly flow and obey a corrupt government.

Gosh. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_inventions_and_discoveries

Israel is a genocidal state that's killing tens of thousands of Palestinians claiming their Hamas.

Tell us please, why they do it. There isn't genocide without intention, once again.

You called her an antisemite, a racist, and a horrible person for because she hates Netayahu.

Are you ****ing blind?

Hate toward Netanyahu is understandable thing, man is warcriminal, its not antisemitism.

 

[Blitz24]

It is possible to support Israel and be completely against Netanyahu and his extremist allies.

 

[Joey D]

It is possible to support Israel and be completely against Netanyahu and his extremist allies.

I completely agree. But that's not what was said. This:

If you hate Jews - you antisemite, horrible person and racist. You also could hate Netanyahu and his accomplices, like half of Israel do with a passion.

Reads that if you hate Jews, you're an antisemite, a horrible person, and a racist, which is true. But it also says that in addition, if you hate Netanyahu and his accomplices, you hate Jews and, therefore, are an antisemite, a horrible person, and a racist. It was fairly insulting to me since in its context, it called my wife and I both antisemites, horrible people, and racists because we hate Netanyahu and his accomplices. I used to excuse the complete lack of awareness of the English language, but since the member in question has repeatedly said they know English, I'm going to assume they mean exactly what they wrote.

I don't support Israel at all because I don't support genocidal states, however I have no issue with people who are Jewish by either religion or culture. Not everyone in Israel is Jewish and not all Jews are Israeli. I'm not saying you're saying this, but in general, Judaism!= Israel.

 

[Fezzik]

Britain drops its challenge to ICC arrest warrants for Israeli leaders

Labour government announces its biggest step yet in overhauling the UK’s approach to the Middle East

www.theguardian.com

 

[inCloud]

Britain drops its challenge to ICC arrest warrants for Israeli leaders

Labour government announces its biggest step yet in overhauling the UK’s approach to the Middle East

www.theguardian.com

Good, less hypocrisy is better. Also, interesting to know when ICC start investigation of China actions in Xinjiang.

 

[Joey D]

Well, Russia and Israel certainly have a lot in common:

An Israeli airstrike hits a school sheltering people in Gaza, killing at least 30

After the evacuation order, multiple Israeli airstrikes hit around Khan Younis, killing at least 70 people, according to Gaza’s Health Ministry,

apnews.com

 

[inCloud]

Well, Russia and Israel certainly have a lot in common:

RF doesn't pretende like hospital was some covered base.

 

[DK]

Far-right Israeli protesters have broken into two IDF compounds...because some soldiers are under investigation for raping a prisoner. The protests were attended by Bezalel Smotrich, the Finance Minister of the far-right Religious Zionist Party, whose previous best hits include wanting segregated hospitals and stating his regret that Ben Gurion didn't totally ethnically cleanse Israel in 1948.

 

[Joey D]

You know what other group forced a population into inhuman living conditions without any real aid? The Nazis.

Lice, scabies, rashes plague Palestinian children as skin disease runs rampant in Gaza's tent camps

Skin diseases are running rampant in Gaza, health officials say, from appalling conditions in overcrowded tent camps housing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians driven from their homes.

apnews.com

If the Israelis were really fighting Hamas and not the people of Palestine, they'd be helping the refugees and providing aid. But nope, they're perfect content shoving 78% of Gaza into a 20-square mile area that isn't habitable.

 

[Liquid]

they're perfect content shoving 78% of Gaza into a 20-square mile area that isn't habitable.

Quite the ghetto.

 

[Touring Mars]

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh killed in Iran - follow latest updates

Ismail Haniyeh was reportedly killed while visiting Tehran for the inauguration of the new Iranian president.

www.bbc.co.uk

Hamas leader Ismail Haniyea has been killed in Iran

 

[DK]

It's amazing how precise Israel can be when they try.